Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions
Don said: ""You are not correct, the radios antennas etc are all going BACK to the manufacturers."" Why am I not correct? The manufacturers donated(or loaned if you prefer) tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. In return the equipment manufacturers can rightfully expect credit and the maximum exposure of their products. Don Said: ""Each member of the team put up $20K or so each. Each member had to take 6 weeks or more out his life."" As I have said they are to be commended for what they have accomplished and endured. They are a very special group of individuals who deserve all the accolades they have been, and will continue to, receive. Don said: ""It is well over half of the expended $."" I did not make a definite statement. I said "most likely". I based my comment on all the financial info that has been made public so far. Don said: ""This team put out over 87,000 QSOs, the 5 most DXPedtion EVER. It likely will go down as the costliest ever."" I guess we have a new syndrome here which I will call the Bode Miller syndrome. A lot of time, money, and resources were spent on Bode Miller and he didn't finish in the top 3. 3YØX was ""the costliest ever"" and didn't finish in the top 3. Could I have done better, NO. Do I have a right to point out what I perceived, from my own experiences,to have been the shortcomings, YES. Lastly Don said: ""They don't owe you anything Mal"" I take particular exception to that remark.At no time have I ever asked for nor do I expect anything. I made all my contacts with the xpedtion 'fair-n-square'. I don't know what the duties of a PILOT are, butif one of the duties is to take a personal disparaging shot at anyone who criticizes the xpedition then you have more than succeeded at your duties. Very Best 73 MAL N7MALBULLHEAD CITY, AZhttp://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htmhttp://geocities.com/n7mal/Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia - Original Message - From: Don Greenbaum To: N7MAL ; Tom Wylie ; Russell Kellam Jr Cc: Ken Holdom ; dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:54 Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions You are not correct, the radios antennas etc are all going BACK to the manufacturers.Each member of the team put up $20K or so each. Each member had to take 6 weeks or more out his life.It is well over half of the expended $.This team put out over 87,000 QSOs, the 5 most DXPedtion EVER. It likely will go down as the costliest ever.They don't owe you anything Mal.DonAt 03:04 AM 2/23/2006, N7MAL wrote: The email that I'm responding to seems like the perfect one for me to 'wrap-up' my original posting. You see Tom, GM4FDM, is 100% correct dead on the money. But, and this is a big BUT, for his type of operation only. When you go somewhere and you're paying all the bills you get to do whatever, whenever, and however you want.The 3YØX guys were not paying all the bills, most likely not even half of them. There were donated radio's, antenna's, etc. Those manufacturers have a right, yes a right, to have their equipment exposed to the maximum number of hams possible. Next the 'collection plate' was passed around and a great many hams stepped up with financial donations. Those folks had the right to expect fairness in the operating style of the xpedition. Yes the 3YØX operators must use their best judgment possible pertaining to what band/mode is the most productive at a given time. For the most part they were nearly perfect at determining band/mode.I'm going to say this now for the 4th time: """ Yes they did a 'bang-up' job, and yes they did it under horrible, grueling, conditions."""I criticized one small segment of the xpedition, a part that rightfully or wrongfully, deserved criticism. I did not condemn the entire operation."""My hat is off to those guys for going to one of the most God forsaken places on earth for 'ham-radio'.MAL N7MALBULLHEAD CITY, AZhttp://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htmhttp://geocities.com/n7mal/Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia
Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions
Why am I not correct? The manufacturers donated(or loaned if you prefer) tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. In return the equipment manufacturers can rightfully expect credit and the maximum exposure of their products. Mal, What makes you the arbiter of what other people should be doing. It's up to manufactures to determine their expectation of operations, not you. NO. Do I have a right to point out what I perceived, from my own experiences, to have been the shortcomings, YES. You have the right to point out your opinions, you don't have the right to point out those opinions where ever you choose. In addition, you are not labeling your OPINIONS as what they are, simply opinions. You are stating dogma. What people should or shouldn't be doing. Urb, W2DEC
Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions
Well said Ken. Many of the criticisms can be taken as "sour grapes" as we move on to more better DX. 73 Russ W4UBC - Original Message - From: Ken Holdom To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:40 AM Subject: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions Hi All To save any problems with the moderator of the reflector please address any personal issues direct to me. Email address at the bottom of the message Having undertaken three (3) yes three successfull DXpeditions to ZL8, Zl9 and ZL7 I am beginning to wonder if it will be politically correct from a ham radio perspective to undertake another DXpedition My XYL has asked me to do ZL8 again and I have recently costed this exercise with a stunning result. Following all the negative criticism and negative comments about the recent 3YOX fantastic performance I am beggining to wonder if it is at all worthwhile considering this venture. I firmly believe that there is far to much criticism of the events when thay have been put on at extraordinarary costs to the operators involved. The people involved have gone out of their way to provide something rare for the amateur fraternity and all they end up getting is one hell of a lot of criticism. Theindividual operators involved in any major DXpedition sacrificehuge amounts of ther own personal time for the benefit of others internationally. Whilst appreciating that these fellow amateurs do this for the benifit to others, yes there is the element of getting some satisfaction of having been to these remote places. This is never seen to be a benefit of top priority for the operators. I trust that we will all get on now and enjoy our hobby to the fullest and work what we personally can, forget about those who have done better than ourselves and after all it is a personal challenge. FORGET THE REST : DO YOUR BEST Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ken Holdom ZL4HU Email Address [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/147 - Release Date: 24/10/2005
Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions
I am just about to go on an expedition to Benin TY with three friends - 15 - 31 March. I have previously been to VP8, V2, OY, 3D2, T30, T33, W7, VE7, VK6, 9V1, HL and a few others. I go on these trips because I want to.I really dont care what other people think.When out there, I will do my best to make as many QSOs as possible on as many bands as possible using as many modes as I am competent on, and take special delight on giving the little guy a new one. If anybody does not like my operating skills, techniques, preferences or anything connected with my expedition, then TOUGH - thats their problem. It wont be a problem for me. I have no time for arm chair Dxers, who do little more than bitch about everything. Some of them should get off their butt now and again and try it out. I am open to constructive criticism as I try to do better on each expedition, but I hate time wasters, and all the other moaners. Sorry if I am a little blunt - but if you cant stand the heat - get out of the kitchen. Tom GM4FDM Russell Kellam Jr wrote: Well said Ken. Many of the criticisms can be taken as sour grapes as we move on to more better DX. 73 Russ W4UBC - Original Message - *From:* Ken Holdom mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* dx-chat@njdxa.org mailto:dx-chat@njdxa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:40 AM *Subject:* [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions Hi All To save any problems with the moderator of the reflector please address any personal issues direct to me. Email address at the bottom of the message Having undertaken three (3) yes three successfull DXpeditions to ZL8, Zl9 and ZL7 I am beginning to wonder if it will be politically correct from a ham radio perspective to undertake another DXpedition My XYL has asked me to do ZL8 again and I have recently costed this exercise with a stunning result. Following all the negative criticism and negative comments about the recent 3YOX fantastic performance I am beggining to wonder if it is at all worthwhile considering this venture. I firmly believe that there is far to much criticism of the events when thay have been put on at extraordinarary costs to the operators involved. The people involved have gone out of their way to provide something rare for the amateur fraternity and all they end up getting is one hell of a lot of criticism. The individual operators involved in any major DXpedition sacrifice huge amounts of ther own personal time for the benefit of others internationally. Whilst appreciating that these fellow amateurs do this for the benifit to others, yes there is the element of getting some satisfaction of having been to these remote places. This is never seen to be a benefit of top priority for the operators. I trust that we will all get on now and enjoy our hobby to the fullest and work what we personally can, forget about those who have done better than ourselves and after all it is a personal challenge. FORGET THE REST : DO YOUR BEST Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ken Holdom ZL4HU Email Address[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/147 - Release Date: 24/10/2005 Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions
At 16:08 02/21/06, Tom Wylie wrote: I am open to constructive criticism as I try to do better on each expedition, but I hate time wasters, and all the other moaners. Russell Kellam Jr wrote: Well said Ken. Many of the criticisms can be taken as sour grapes as we move on to more better DX. I suppose the issue is where does valid constructive criticism stop and sour grapes begin. As one who's never travelled before with an HF radio (my first trip is a vacation to C6 the week after next and I'll only have 10, 17 and 15 on an indoor dipole with 100W), I welcome any suggestions on how to make it go more smoothly; afterwards, if I didn't handle something particularly well, I'd like to know so I can do it better next time -- maybe from someplace that might actually generate a real pileup grin. I suppose I'd be offended if I got e-mails saying you suck cuz you didn't work me on 9 bands plus EME and 160 SSTV, but I know I'd appreciate someone more experienced than me saying Gee, ya know if you'd have stayed on such-and-such band an extra 2 hours you'd have heard so-and-so region well. The way I see it, if I'm spending my money to go on a trip that will benefit the amateur radio community - I sure as heck want to know how I can best make use of my time, money and energy in so doing. - Peter W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Future DXpeditions
Tom et others who have run or plan to run Dxpeditions-- I've also run a couple DXpeditions myself (Zone 2 - VO2). I am absolutely POSITIVE that there were some out there who didn't like the frequency, band, nor mode I was on at that particular moment, didn't like the speed or technique with which I handled the pileups, and probably decided they just didn't like me; some even contacted me by email with their gripes. I got criticized because I didn't do AMTOR, MFSK, PSK-63, SSTV, EME, SatCom, nor RTTY to Asia on 160m in the middle of the day. Why wasn't I on the Sporadic E opening on 6m last night? People didn't like it because I had a pipeline to Zero-land and didn't answer their (S1 inaudible) calls from Six land. People didn't like it if I spent a few moments to learn the operators' name. Would I switch to 12m CW to fill in the last hole in his CW WAZ? (Won't take a moment and the pileup will wait.) Why didn't I operate closer to the coast for better contact with east Europe? No matter what you do nor where you go nor how you operate, there will ALWAYS be SOMEONE to criticize. The only way to avoid it is to not go at all. Someone on this side of the puddle once said, If you were to read the Declaration of Independence on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the Fourth of July, there would be someone to protest it.. The same is true of Dxpeditions. Forget 'em. As we said in the Army, FIGMO (translation provided offlist upon request). Just go where you want, do what you want when you want and how you want, and above all, HAVE FUN! If the armchair pilots don't like it, let 'em run their own DXpeditions. 73 de Fred K2FRD, VO2FS At 21:08 + 21/02/2006, Tom Wylie wrote: I am just about to go on an expedition to Benin TY with three friends - 15 - 31 March. I have previously been to VP8, V2, OY, 3D2, T30, T33, W7, VE7, VK6, 9V1, HL and a few others. I go on these trips because I want to.I really dont care what other people think.When out there, I will do my best to make as many QSOs as possible on as many bands as possible using as many modes as I am competent on, and take special delight on giving the little guy a new one. If anybody does not like my operating skills, techniques, preferences or anything connected with my expedition, then TOUGH - thats their problem. It wont be a problem for me. I have no time for arm chair Dxers, who do little more than bitch about everything. Some of them should get off their butt now and again and try it out. I am open to constructive criticism as I try to do better on each expedition, but I hate time wasters, and all the other moaners. Sorry if I am a little blunt - but if you cant stand the heat - get out of the kitchen. Tom GM4FDM -- 73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD, VO2FS http://homepage.mac.com/k2frd/K2FRD.html Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
