[e-gold-list] Re: MailVault encrypted emails
Dear JP, For built in PGP encryption and secure emails, go to MailVault.com , and register an account. I use them, and recommend them! Just for what it may be worth, a client of mine in France opened a MailVault account in 1999 on a visit to Costa Rica. Then "Laissez Faire City Clerk" Jack Freeman aka Chris Eyerman was later found to be reading my client's e-mails and actually replied to one of them. I have been told in the time since that this problem has been fully rectified. Incidentally, be careful of these centralized-email systems, if privacy matters. Agreed. I think secure communications are important, and if secure commo matters to you, you should be using a Mac or Linux computer (desktop or laptop), you should be using a reliable e-mail client such as Eudora, you should be getting your e-mail on your computer, not on a web site, and you should be using PGP in its native form. Various other security protocols like firewalls and virus detectors are important to keep in mind, and decrypting and composing while offline seems prudent. To get PGP, I suggest http://www.pgpi.org/ for the international customers. A personal copy is free to download. You can buy a copy for commercial uses at pgp.com. Nevertheless, many people just won't be bothered with really secure commo. So, they use alternatives like Hushmail: https://www.hushmail.com/login.php?l=424&a=1786&subloc=signup2 or MailVault. By themselves, these aren't terrible choices, but they are less than optimal for security. Even so, in the best of circumstances, anyone who is sending e-mail, even encrypted e-mail, about a topic he wants nobody else to know or wherein he communicates something that would get him into immense trouble (treason, theft, murder, etc.), he should not be sending any e-mail at all. It is foolish to suppose that whatever security measures you've taken are good enough for that kind of stuff. Put another way, as I think Ben Franklin first wrote, three can keep a secret, but only if two are dead. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Fairy Wings Auctions Accepting E-gold -- Great Holiday Gift
Dear Daniel, Fire Fairy Wings http://www.goldbarter.com/viewauction.jsp?id=315 Well, that's a new one. Tell anyone else you know who would be interested in buying these items with e-gold. I'm not doing this entirely for my own financial gain. I must say that the GoldBarter.com auction site exists entirely for financial gain. It is not only okay, but preferred that people place items for auction there for the purpose of financial gain. I would probably save money by not accepting e-gold or giving these kinds of discounts, but I'm doing this to encourage alternatives to government-issued currency. E-gold offers a pretty compelling argument, on their web site, that e-gold is better for merchants than credit cards. Jim Ray? What's that link again? Also, I think e-gold is much better than the typical eBay alternative, PayPal which sucks so badly people make web sites about how badly it sucks. I seem to recall http://www.paypalwarning.com/ among others. PayPal has been very bad for several merchants I know. Regards, Jim http://goldbarter.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Dear JP, (ONE) say the system is 1/3 each of egold, pecunix, and goldmoney. Say pecunix totally evaporates. What would happen is that each user loses one third of their conglomerated-gold. (Sucks, but better than losing it all.) Wouldn't it be clever to insure against such a disaster? Then the currency fails but your insurance policy kicks in and the gold is replaced. I would think a policy on the loss of any one of these would not carry too high a premium. Getting the insurer to agree to pay off in gold - write the contract in gold rather than dollars or euros - would seem a major challenge. (THREE) more of a sort of "meta exchange" system. This approach would have the advantage of letting the market inform you about which currency should have more of your bars of gold. If people preferentially bail in, say, e-gold and bail out, say, Pecunix, then you'll need to move bars from e-gold to Pecunix to keep up. (I think Robert you have Gone Mad here News? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: PGP, Pecunix, Vulnerabilities
Dear JP, Note: if you have an effective keystroke logger installed on someone's computer here's a newsflash ... YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO ANYTHING LIKE BOTHER BREAKING THEIR ENCRYPTION!!! You haven't thought it through. Yes, with a keystroke logger one can read everything the subject types. But, with a keystroke logger and their purloined private keyring, any messages encrypted to their public key by anyone else in the world can also be read, without having keystroke loggers on all those machines. Saying "oh, well, everyone knows security method X is no good because it is vulnerable to leystroke loggers" is just a sort of non-comment. EVERYTHING is rendered useless if you have a keystroke logger, or -- say -- a camera in the room watching everything the person types. Everything on that compromised machine, yes. And, with the PGP password from that keystroke logger and the private keyring, everything that person receives encrypted on any machine is compromised, along with everything sent by anyone who courteously encrypts to his key. Moreover, once one has the PGP password and keyring, one does not need to bother with the huge files involved in a keystroke log. Keep in mind that analysis is always the area where spy stuff falls apart. Much better to simply grab the messages the subject bothers to encrypt - since these are certainly the interesting stuff. Given the ready availability of solutions like SRK and your own application of drop down lists, I'm sort of pissed that PGP still pretends that a typed password is adequate security. Aren't you? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Pecunix security
Dear Sidd, This will reveal your limited access PIK... use the limited access PIK to log in with limited access, and likewise use your read-only PIK for read-only access. Ah, I see. That's nifty. You can also activate PGP security for your account Yes, I've done so. It is also spiffy. Spaceman Spiff spiffy. I was wondering whether the PGP security might be a stand-alone login, but I see that your system uses the PIK/password to identify the account being logged into. The thing is Jim, despite what the detractors say, Pecunix does have a much higher level of security than the competing DGC's and it is NOT DIFFICULT to use! Okay. I think that is true. In my opinion, Pecunix has a level of security which is comparable to e-Bullion's Cryptocard access, without the expense of the card. There is no need to have lower levels of access security. It takes getting used to, Sidd. The PIK/password approach is different - more secure by design but also more unusual. It's quite unusual...to see me PIK. we need to help users to protect themselves, despite their best efforts to the contrary. It seems necessary to provide systems which are more secure by design. A key advantage for Pecunix is that there are various other online gold services and online fiat-transfer services which are not nearly as secure. Yes, I think so... the alternative would be Java... either way, it is never a good idea to run any type of program from a browser... it is open to all kinds of abuse... Imagine the fun that copycat sites could have if the user was actually willing (and expecting) the site to download a program to the browser! Interesting. I think that's part of what dBourse does when I go to log in there. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] PGP's "TEMPEST-prevention" font
Dear John, PGP has a tempest prevention font, although I don't know if it is effective. PGP's TEMPEST-prevention font is certainly effective for what it offers, which is a way of displaying in fairly low contrast the text on screen. It makes for much more work for the van Eck tuner, trying to get his screen to show the text due to the low contrast. However, PGP is extremely vulnerable to keystroke logging. Clipboard pasting your PGP password simply shifts the vulnerability to clipboard logging. And the PGP private key would seem to be something one could grab off the user's hard drive over the 'net. As well, many people compose online. So, you have the vulnerability of a PGP message while it is being composed. It could be viewed in the composition stage either by 'net warez or by van Eck phreaking. Then it is encrypted and sent. It is nearly invulnerable as a set of data packets while it is transmitted, although these could be duplicated en route for the Ft. Meade supercomputers if passwords have been logged and private keys purloined. Once it arrives at its destination it can be viewed in TEMPEST-secure font, but then the recipient goes to compose a reply. So, again, his reply can be viewed by 'net warez during composition and before encryption, or by van Eck phreaking. In other words, PGP is a good idea. It is like putting an envelope around your letters instead of sending everything by postcard. But, just as with an envelope, it is a thin veil of privacy. It can be penetrated. So, anyone who is writing things under PGP security that he wouldn't want anyone to read is probably making a dreadful mistake. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] tons of gold
Dear Bob, Those 2 items being normally expressed in tons. Yes, they are. The e-gold inventory is expressed in ounces. Conversion is as follows: 50,742.69 ounces divided by 12 to get pounds troy (12 ounces troy to the pound troy) = 4228.557 pounds troy. Figure 2000 pounds to the ton and we have 2.114 tons. Figure e-gold has about half the total gold inventory of the top four and there are perhaps 4 tons on hand. I wonder what figures you believe accurately express the "central bank holdings" for, e.g., the US Treasury or the Federal Reserve? I'm somewhat doubtful of their claims. I think the last audit of US Treasury gold was perhaps 1954? What number do you like for the total gold above ground? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: tempest systems
Dear Gordon, No that is not the case. The tempest system that I am aware of can take the signal and reproduce the entire active computer onto a slave computer. There are actually quite a few signals and different radio frequencies depending on the device. The biggest signal used to be from the CRT. But, many computers do not use CRT monitors any longer. Thus, the size of the antenna, the antenna gain, and the distance to the target have all changed for, e.g., laptops. Instead of having a target up to two kilometers away as was possible with a CRT's emission, current-era van Eck devices have to be much closer to get an adequate signal. Once in, the remote operator is basically sitting in front of your computer just like you are and is able to watch on the screen what you are doing. Yes, but he would only have to detect the R/F from your monitor to get that ability. He does not need to detect the status of every chip in your computer. It is possible from close at hand to get a lot of data on those chips from their emissions, but that's all so much noise if you are just interested in looking at the screen. What would he do with your keyboard cache or your CPU's various storage arrays? He gets whatever you get from looking at the screen. Don't multiply entities without need, please. Shave with Occam's razor. Suppose he did go to the trouble of reading in the status of every device on your computer - what could he do? He doesn't have the ability to remotely copy your hard drive, because most of your hard drive isn't being accessed and therefore there is no signal to detect. Could he generate a signal to type on your screen remotely? Probably not. The amount of radiation needed to over-ride your keyboard from any distance would likely either kill you or fry your computer. It is not much unlike pointing an antennae and listening to the radio. Much more like pointing a directional antenna and watching television. The same can be done via your brain and a tempest like system can be used to turn your eyes into cameras and reproduce what you see onto a monitor. I've followed some of this research, and I just don't think that's at all true. The brain is a very bizarre signal processing device. Even a healthy brain is not easy to understand from its electrical output. Yes, there have been experiments on subjects using brain wave patterns to establish what they are thinking and using that to, for example, move a cursor on a computer screen. With feedback it is possible to generate fairly impressive control. These are systems which involve direct contact with the head for signal detection, and it turns out that the active thoughts are not "move the cursor there" but really weird stuff like "my dog died when I was three." Thoughts which are not very significant don't seem to produce enough brain electrical activity to generate what is needed to be detected. So, you end up with subjects thinking a series of fairly bizarre thoughts to get the mind-reader software to do its stuff. The military is interested in this stuff for rapid-reaction input devices, but it has had slow going. As for turning your eyes into cameras, the eye is a very poor optical device. It is some jelly surrounding a crude lens with a variety of muscles in different places to pull that lens into focus. The light impinging on the retina is turned into electrical signals on the optic nerve which travels back to the vision center near the back of your head. There is not a lot of signal strength involved, and there is not a long distance for that signal to travel so your optic nerve makes a lousy antenna. Even if it made a great antenna, the direct information from your eye is very crappy stuff. What makes the majority of vision is brain power. The brain interprets the signals it gets from the eye and does amazing stuff to turn that data into clear crisp vision. It does so with a lot of energy from the body, so you have a very energetic signal processing system masking that very weak signal on that very short antenna. I just don't see how you are going to get much in the way of spy-stuff by reading those signals over a long distance. Keep in mind that patents are all well and good in those countries where working models are required. They are next to science fiction in the USA, since working models have become a thing of the past. Anyone can express an idea about an invention, and then get patent protection for 20 years, for a fee, and maybe have time to develop the idea into a working product in time to exploit the patent protection. That's why there are so many millions of patents every year and yet not so many products around. Van Eck phreaking works. It is a fairly simple thing to tune a television set to display the signal from a computer monitor. It was a lot easier in the 1970s when there were nothing but CRT monitors, and it is a lot more challenging now that monitors emit far less R/F. I don't think brain wave detection
[e-gold-list] Re: tempest systems
Dear Westgarth Books, TEMPEST is an acronym from the military mindset. The technology is also known by its inventor's name, van Eck. You can read more about it by googling up "van Eck phreaking." With a laptop or a liquid crystal display (LCD) monitor or other low-emission monitor, you make it much harder to read your screen. With an old cathode ray tube, there is a huge amount of radio frequency emission from your monitor. Yes, you can mask that emission with a Faraday cage. Or you can buy a low emission monitor. Or you can run a high emission monitor in the same room. You can also work out the technique for a "van Eck detector" which involves searching your neighborhood with a high gain antenna and a television monitor, looking for another signal which matches whatever simple icon you've put up on your computer screen. 'leakage' comes from the cables connecting the pieces of hardware. Easily fixed with a power supply inside your Faraday cage. The problem is then connecting to the 'net. There is also R/F emission from your keyboard and from other items within your computer. You are probably worrying too much if you spend much of your time in a Faraday cage and also online, since your online activity almost certainly compromises your privacy in ways that obviate van Eck phreaking. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: ?
Dear Sidd, Thanks for your comments... you must be using a pretty old browser! One of the traditional problems of HTML is the hefty installed base of relic browsers. Believe it or not, I first encountered this difficulty in 1996 when there were still significant numbers of original Mosaic users. Relic browsers are their own reward. Many dangerous downloads and virus/trojan stuff is designed to be downloaded by the latest and greatest. Older browsers oftenr eject that stuff. The key should be displaying in a text area form field. Sidd, that's a lot of trouble to go to. All you need to do is put the keystream, with its ASCII armored text lines between and for pre-formatted text. Even within the text area form field, using above and below the PGP key should make it better for Bob and other relic browser users. Finally, the keys are up on the server, so if you go to your PGP keys and do a server search for "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" you should find it. That's probably the easiest solution for Bob right now. PS Bug bounty on it's way! What a guy. Sidd rocks. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Pecunix security
Dear Sidd, One of the things I'm not clear about is how one goes about logging into a Pecunix account with less than full access. I believe Patrick made the point But the way Pecunix displays the PIKs makes it difficult if not impossible to copy and paste them. It seems to me that the advantage of the drop-down lists in both 1MDC and Pecunix is precisely that there is no way to type or paste any part of the keystream (PIN in the case of 1MDC, PIK in the case of Pecunix). Since we know that keystroke loggers and clipboard loggers are out there, it seems uncommonly foolish to move back to a typing or pasting approach. Virus or trojan attacks on the security of client workstations is too great a risk for my taste, especially when so many work-place logging tools are exempted from the major anti-virus and firewall systems - which opens them up to attackers exploiting the same openings. This is a possibility, but of course that would be easy for a screen scraper to steal... I will look into this more. Sidd, it seems to me that you should keep the high level of security for full access. Perhaps lower-level access could be obtained using PGP only? Or maybe those who want to risk the keystroke loggers and clipboard loggers can set their accounts to a more open approach. I don't know. In some ways it reminds me of those signs that gun owners have been offering to their neighbors, "This home has no firearms." Sort of an invitation to thieves and rapists, a kind of "evolution in action" approach to crime. In response to George's rather odd suggestion, you wrote: there is a very good reason for leaving out the Zero, One, Oscar, Lima, India, characters... they can be easily confused, depending on the font the user chooses, And it is nearly impossible to prevent users from over-riding the fonts in their web browser. So, there will be confusion of zero with capital O, one with lowercase l and some capital I, etc. your suggestions degrade the security substantially. Possibly, for users electing to have lower security or for lower-level access, some of these degraded log-in systems might be appropriate. to click the "help" button. There's a help button? more than 8 are getting too difficult to remember. I think that depends entirely on how much effort one makes in generating mnemonic series of letters and numbers. Several of my unpublished PGP keys use 25 character passwords, which I have no trouble remembering. Then again, I used to remember thousands of words for theater productions. Remember, even if the keylogger stole your password, it still doesn't have the full picture and your account is safe. Indeed, it seems very difficult to anticipate having enough data from a series of Pecunix log-ins to be confident of even having enough of the PIK to be able to log in half the time. If it were possible it would require running a program (such as activex) from the browser... a definitely BAD idea. Isn't ActiveX one of those dramatically bad ideas of the Microsofties? I thought it was pretty much limited to Internet Exploder? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E_GOLD MOVES TO BAND with GOD!!
Dear Westgarth Books, It's an online 'radio' station using streaming audio to broadcast programs with a Satanic focus. Sounds weird. California-based? (The world is weird, but they blame it on the USA. America is weird, but they blame it on California. California is weird, but they blame it on Hollywood. Hollywood is weird. They don't mind. It's their thing.) AFAIK they don't take e-gold per se, but they are always scrounging for donations so you could probably talk them into it. I could not because it would be against my principles, but you or anyone else could sign them up as a progeny of your account and gain "payee creator incentives" and "payor creator incentives" every time someone spends or receives gold to or from them. (www.godhatesfags.com), it's absolutly hilarious. That does sound like it might have amusing consequences. I've found that every single time I've appeared in the print media over the years they have managed to make at least one major blooper, Indeed. Heaven, he explained, is for people who like sitting around and clouds, playing harps and thinking good thoughts for eternity. Sounds great. Hell, on the other hand, is where you spend eternity swearing, drinking, fornicating and doing all the things 'heavenly' people disapprove of. These features are not prominent in any of the literature I've reviewed. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: goldfingercoin.com
Robert: Plus the de facto currencies that are often e-gold based, such as Gold-Price.net, Gold price network is a currency? It is operated by Joel Bruce of Asiana Gold exchange, I think. virtualgold.net, even freetraders.org in a way. I did not realize freetraders was based on e-gold, or a currency. Then there is your own cyfrocash. Or is that a secret? PS - Sometimes there is method to my madness :o) "He knows a hawk from a handsaw, when the wind is southerly." - Hamlet, Act I --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] goldfingercoin.com
Dear Sidd, You may be correct about the Goldfinger Coin & Bullion though I think they couldn't really be considered an "exchanger" in the sense Robert indicated, their main business has always been "Coin & Bullion". Goldfingercoin.com was the largest e-gold exchanger in 1999 and 2000, I seem to recall. You could look it up. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: IG by exchangers?
Dear Viking MetalEscrow (now Open2Exchange) -> Pecunix Goldfinger Coin & Bullion -> ebullion Coconut Gold was started by JP May who later opened 1MDC. OmniPay is operated by G&SR which also runs e-gold.com. I think Sidd actually went to the trouble of setting up a separate company with other investors, Pecunix Venture Holdings, and a private stock exchange PVCSE http://pvcse.com/ex.change...000222 and raised substantial dollars in order to bring Pecunix into the world. Yes, he also has much to do with Open2Exchange, but Pecunix is not a sole proprietorship. Much the same is true of e-Bullion. Yes, it involves some of the same people as Goldfingercoin.com. No, it is not the same company. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] blue seal
Dear Sidd, You can prove it yourself Jim... look up the escrow agent's phone number and phone him... he will tell you. He personally inspected it. It sounds like hearsay to me. Who is this escrow agent? Some guy. If you like you can ask him to contact ViaMat and verify it right now. Some guy says that some other guy says. Rumor. Do we have any statements notarized on penalty of perjury laying about? I think Pecunix and Goldmoney are more serious about doing things right. I'd be disappointed if you thought Pecunix were doing anything wrong. Ok, so does e-gold currently have a trustee or not? Did the existing trustee resign or not? Who is the current trustee? Excellent questions. Inquiring minds... heck, I am still a customer. Dern tootin! hence the need to use it so often. Good point. would love to see e-gold get better, Me, too! Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Finding serious *ecurrency* investors...
GK: It's very interesting to know that *most* INTGold customers have opted for non gold backed, apparantly not happy with the potentiality for fluctuating $$$ value. That is very interesting. It is also great that you state it exactly that way, since it is the gold price of dollars that fluctuates and not the value of gold. Yes, there is room in the industry for dollar transfer services such as evocash, which seems to be among the best of these. I think it is much better than PayPal and makes StormPay look like they have no sense at all. However, there is no room in the industry for scams like OSGold. I don't think there should be room in the industry for calling a currency "gold" when it is redeemable for gold. Also, in an earlier comment you indicated that you felt that Standard Reserve had failed and was a 'backed' currency. I think Standard Reserve was like your INTgold model - some of it was "backed" and some not. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] assignats and Mississippi money
Dear John Law, To review a bit, we've been discussing the concept of e-Land which is a proposed currency circulated electronically which would be "backed" by land. The land would be held by the company issuing the e-Land currency, it would not be fungible so different parcels of land would have vastly different values, and it would not be available for redeeming the currency itself. It is a proposed design for a currency which the author says he is too lazy to implement, so all these discussions are taking place in the hypothetical. You just spread yourself out of the village. Hi, it's me again, here in the village. The topic on this list is *money*, not your opinions about *me*. The subject matter of each of my posts has been mainly money. I consider these ad hominem issues to be preliminary and of little consequence. You are lying, Jim. I would say that my memory isn't perfect. I write a lot more stuff than you post here, every day. Mea culpa. I was mistaken (nota bene). Thanks for pointing it out in such a courteous manner. "You are an ignorant savage who knows nothing about the progress of the ages." I think that's true, and I think it is an accurate expression of my opinion. By the way, I refer to myself with the phrase "sum homo indomitus" so it is not necessarily an insult to be called a savage by me. Ignorance can always be informed, though you don't seem to take on board much new information. "You are the vicious thug who insists on imposing paper money on these workers, not me." I think that's also true, which is why I wrote it, and I think it accurately expresses my opinion of you. It is inevitable that what I write is my opinion. Just conveniently forgotten I suppose? I will say inconveniently forgotten, though I doubt it makes you feel better. So, I will skip all the rest of your pointless mumblings You do seem to skip over anything that you don't like. So, I'll skip some, too. The judge will laugh when you bring up that argument Then let him laugh. I have the freedom to hold and to express my opinions. I don't much care what the judge thinks. So, you are making judgments I'm quite content with my own judgements. If you wish to influence my judgements, feel free. Your comments have not been inspiring in this regard. And that judgment based on your prejudices against me, What might my prejudices against you be based upon, John? It seems to me that I've gone over the meaty aspects of your e-Land concept. It is based on collective "backing" with land that is not fungible and is apparently not available for redeeming the currency. There is difference between thinking something and saying it. Neither thinking nor saying is provably damaging. There is no law against thinking badly of you nor of saying that I think so. It is implicit in any statement I make that I think it. You forgot your *I think..* more then a couple of times. Yet it is clearly a statement of my opinion. That too will be judged as slander.. You are free to judge as you please. I like it when people use judgement. It isn't slander unless you can show damage. Since you say that I am lying, you can't show that anyone would take me seriously. Of course, if I'm not lying, then I have a counter-claim of you making deliberately damaging statements. The views that you might be an ignorant savage or a vicious thug are hypotheses which might be disproven. I haven't seen any evidence tending to disprove them. Your idea that you are entitled to shoot me because I wish to express my opinion that your e-Land concept is designed like scams of yesteryear does seem to be evidence that you are a thug, and a vicious one. E-land doesn't exist yet, so there is no question of you seeing anybody being scammed by it. A discussion of the hypothetical structure would seem to include orderly comments on how it would affect people. I've made such comments. I think it is also important to examine the issue of trust in money. A free market money should be issued by a trusted party and it is unlikely that any money issued by an untrusted party would be widely accepted. You claim the right to keep customers away from my business. I claim the right to express myself. If my comments keep business away from something I view as a scam, it is a consequence I can live with. Then you are already interfering in my business, Your hypothetical business. then you are already regulating like every politician. Not at all. Politicians regulate with compulsion. I use persuasion and information. If you don't think I can be trusted as a source of information, then what is your worry? If you think I am lying about thinking that you are a scammer, then you should expect nobody will take my comments about your business seriously, and you won't lose any valued customers. If I'm not lying, if I am a serious and credible source of information, then I do think you are a scammer and people would likely believe me. Your actions in either case are obviou
[e-gold-list] exchange provider biz
Dear Arik, Shalom, Shalom. This reminded me that market makers have more expenses. I don't like this term "market maker." The term should refer to arbitrageurs and institutional investors who make the market, or to the broker-dealers who place orders directly on the stock exchanges. I think the correct English language term for the people who exchange money and are currency experts is "cambist." The term in Spanish is cambio. Another term would be "exchange provider." In the New Testament, the term "money changer" comes up. I do not understand the market makers business. It is a tough and not rewarding one. I think it has its rewards. It depends on what you want to do with your life. Feel free to enlighten us on the ways to make money being a market maker. An exchange provider makes fees taking orders. Ideally, he makes fees by selling digital gold and makes fees by buying digital gold. Every once in a while, exchangers of high reputation get very large orders and are able to place them with bullion dealers or other major suppliers. Exchangers can also sometimes make money by providing advice on the movement of information including information about money. Many successful exchangers offer other services, such as debit cards, hosting, or what have you. There are also several key exchangers who also operate currencies. For example, you operate the Internet dollar currency, right? How a market maker does reduce his risk of Gold price changes? "Does Macy's tell Gimbel's?" I don't think there is any deep dark secret here. If you have a long position on gold, you benefit from any increase in the price of gold. You can match that long position with a short position which hedges your risk of a price decrease. As you sell out of the long position, you sell out of the short position, so that your risk of price changes is always in balance. Since you can leverage your short position and since you can sometimes see the price of gold moving within a channel (recently it touched a lower channel marker, intra-day, of $384 so I felt it was a good bet it would recover all the way to $400) you can minimize your hedging costs. My best advice to you is to call John Kyle on the phone and have him design a hedge position for you so that you are always in fine fettle. He can probably hook you up with a good broker for the short, too. Still looking for lenders How much do you seek to borrow? Contact me off list, please. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: GoldNow & DMT/Alta
GK: In any case, I believe DMT/Alta will be big... Perhaps so. so we are starting to move funds there. I just got caught out with a simple funding order, and all my normal funding sources reneged at the last second, I am not unsympathetic with your situation in trying to fund orders for many different currencies. I'm curious about funding sources reneging. defeated me in my normally efficient customer service contact role... doh! I doubt if John would have commented on the nastygram from your customer about this order if he didn't understand your situation, and my purpose in commenting was the same. I'm attempting to free myself! May wonders never cease. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: GolNow or should we say GoldNEVER Service Complaint
Dear John, This is all true. Exchangers do not have an infinite supply of inventory, On the other hand, GK would seem to be a guy with lots of resources. I gather it takes $1000 minimum order and you can get DMT/ALTA by bank wire. Of course, then GK would have a bit more than he has customers on hand for. percentage fee, which is often less than the price moves in one day. On the plus side, sometimes you are holding inventory when the price moves the right way. difficult in this industry. It is. I think government makes it more difficult, and not a jot less risky. And people here pay 8.25% (tax) on every thing they buy and don't even blink an eye. True, John, but they get that really high quality Harris County flood control that we've been witnessing the last few days, not to mention that about 1.5 cents per dollar of sales is tax for the lovely $9.9 billion "light rail" program that will handle less than 1% of Houston's traffic. Aren't you glad you aren't getting all the government that is being paid for? I would consider it far too much trouble, if I didn't like my job. Well, you can always raise your rates. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] e-gold market share
Dear Gordon, 50% e-gold 30% paypal (no comment) Wow! That's a lotta PayPal. I wouldn't want to have that much at risk, were it me. I hope you have good procedures for limiting your exposure to their ill will. 10% evocash (doing better lately) I agree. 5% stormpay (they scare me and our money is stuck in it which pisses me off) I'd heard about BrightPay going under. I gather that StormPay is on its last legs? 3% intgold You should probably steel yourself for the bad results to come on this one, given what I know. Seems like an OSGold in the making. 2% Pecunix - Gold Money - other Does "other" include e-Bullion? If so, I'm a bit surprised they don't represent a larger share of your orders. The sales numbers do not lie. Agreed. However, sales figures are like sewer pipes. What you get out of them depends in part on what you put into them. If users have any perception that you prefer to be paid with e-gold, they may do so out of a desire to mutual advantage. There are all kinds of reasons why e-gold sales might be higher which are not indicated in your sales figures. For example, there may be greater regional penetration of e-gold among your clientele. Users of certain industries may be extremely shy of, say, PayPal, which is anti-adult and anti-gun and anti-other stuff. So, if you are hosting web sites in these specific industries, that would explain the preference of users for e-gold. e-gold has even overtaken our paypal sales overall. That's sorta neat. It isn't a wonder, though, given all the terrible practices at PayPal. How do credit card sales compare? Once in a while they battle it out but usually e-gold has the edge. That is really impressive to me. And to me, too. something really unique to offer people I wonder if there would be a market for videos of zero gravity sex? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Critical listening
Dear Westgarth Books, I guess everyone is going to be asking you sooner or later. What is Radio Free Satan? Does it accept e-gold? The problem with that is that the majority of people seem to lack basic critical listening/reading ability. If you take the position that most people are ignorant, I must agree. Thomas Jefferson wrote that we must acknowledge that people are ignorant. Then one has a choice. One can either conspire to take their powers and liberties from them, or one can enlighten their ignorance. Thoreau proposes that there is a third possibility which Jefferson had not even realized, that one can be left alone, and leave others alone in their ignorance. I think it remains to be proven, but I'm eager for an empirical showing. In this age of media spin, I am amazed how often the front pages of newspapers are full of articles which... go on and on about what 'might', 'may' or 'could' be true. Indeed. I heard a big fat blatant lie today on the ABC affiliate in Houston - the news anchor says that US law forbids Americans from gambling online. There is no such law. There are proposals in Congress to prevent Americans from using their credit cards in gambling online, and there are credit card companies that presently refuse service for customers trying to gamble online with credit cards, but there is *no* law forbidding online gambling. You'd think the mainstream media have an agenda with stuff like that going on, hmm? Oh, and I encourage gambling online, because gambling is a good, Bible-mentioned practice which everyone should feel good about doing. God wants you to gamble? He sure did make plenty of opportunities available. http://8715605.thegoldcasino.com/ Go now and gamble thou likewise! the price of gold 'might' reach $400/ounce, Is $399.20 close enough? The price of gold will reach $400 per ounce, or, more accurately, the price of dollars will reach one four hundredth of an ounce of gold. I don't know when, but I'm willing to guess. that Terrorists 'could be' planning this or that outrage. Yes, those pesky terrorists. We should...be vexed by them. We might as well write, "hobgoblins" in place of "terrorists" in deference to HL Mencken. George Bush, Tony Blair and the Queen might be planning a Satanic Mass at Buckingham Palace, I think they are! Have you read, _The AntiChrist and a Cup of Tea_ by Tim Cohen? Fantastic book. It sets out to prove that the Prince of Wales is going to turn into the AntiChrist by the year 2019. Amazing stuff. One does so look forward to finding out if it is true. And still time for a sequel! where they may intend to sacrifice small children who could be taken from among Iraqi refugees. Of course! I can see it now in my mind's eye. Those vicious harlots! How dare they?! We should hang them all in effigy, or somewhere. Nothing I have said in the paragraph above is necessarily untrue. They 'might' be true or untrue. Indeed. This is similar to idiots who are unable to distinguish between someone expressing a fact and expressing a personal opinion. Well said. If I state to one of these idiots "The Italian Socialist Party wants to ban the sale of ice cream", they will say "You want to ban the sale of ice cream!?!" Very often. At this time, though, I have just one question for you, to whit, "Why do you want to ban the sale of ice cream?!" But of course it is utterly pointless to sit around discussing how stupid/ignorant/idiotic most people seem to be these days. As JP May has so eloquently pointed out on this list and various others at various times, there is no point to Internet discussions. Anyone who thinks he is engaged in an Internet discussion for some purpose is making a mistake. Internet discussions are either self-actualizing or not. If you don't like the chatter, get out of the chatterbox. Or, something like that. Tune in to http://radiofreesatan.com Tune in, Turn on, We'll Take You Straight to HELL! I have to say that I have no desire for this product, but I do admire the forthright fashion in which it is promoted. From the available literature, hell is eternal pain and damnation and fire and punishment and not much fun. If you get a counter offer from radiofreegod.com, please do let me know. Heaven, by all accounts, is eternal life, and that sounds like a much better deal. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/free/freejim.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E-land, nuts, savings
Dear John Law, You said what you think about 'me' , which is irrelevant to the points on the table. I've covered the points on the table. I've actually spread you out of the room. Moreover, there were remaining points about what I think about you, which I consider to be very relevant. When someone sets up a deal structure and is informed that it is consistent with, say, a Ponzi scheme, or, say, John Law's Banque Royale, and fails to acknowledge that there is a difficulty with pursuing a fraudulent approach to the deal, but sticks to the idea of keeping the deal structure and says things like the past has no meaning or experience is no basis for judgement, I become skeptical of that person. I'm skeptical of you. You are relevant to the points on the table. You are the author of this John Law style e-land scheme. You are responsible for what you promote. Publicly saying how unfavorable you think about a person is a criminal offense in all cultured places, including Texas; unless you have proof for what you say. No, it is not. If I were to say something untrue, such as, "I know John Law has killed Peter Piper" that would be a bad thing, a criminal thing. But when I say what I think, such as "I think John Law is a scammer" that's my opinion, and I'm entitled to express, I'm free to express it, and it is necessarily true since I'm the only person who can say whether it is true. When you call somebody a thug or a scammer the burden of proof is on you. But I didn't say those things. I said that I think thus and such person is a thug. I said that I think you are a scammer. I have proven what I think. I write what I think, and I think you are a scammer. It is true that I think it. If you go on saying how unfavorable you think about people, without any evidence, it won't be long until somebody sues you in the court and asks payment for damages. Sue away. I'm very aware of the law. I'm also very aware of the statutes. It is not illegal to write what I think. It is not illegal to think you are a scammer. And it is not against the statutes to write that I think you are a scammer. It is not, for example, a hate crime, to write that I think you are a scammer. I have always solved my own problems, without running to courts, so you can safely continue. That sounds like fun. You go on addressing me with the name of a past criminal, which is already evidence of slander, I'm addressing my comments to John Law. Hey, if you aren't John Law, then you shouldn't take offense. but you need not stop it since it tells much more about you than about me. It tells what I think. The bird shows his feathers, and it is only indicative on what level you are arguing with others. It indicates the level at which I've been discussing with you. Others have earned more respect. That's an argument that doesn't cut. Of course it cuts. There are dozens of people posting to the e-gold list. Don't you know how to write a message filter? If you publish unfounded damaging statements about somebody, My statement that I think you are a scammer is founded on my thoughts. It is a perfectly true statement of my thoughts. I am entitled to my thoughts. I am free to express my thoughts. My thoughts are my own. I think you are a scammer because I think your Turing OCR solution was never adequately demonstrated yet you insisted on being paid for it. I'll go right on thinking you are a scammer until you prove your story on that one. Then I'll keep thinking you are a scammer because you insist that e-land have these features which I find to be consistent with earlier scams (two of them). you cannot just get away with saying that he need not read the posts. I can say whatever I please. What you read is your responsibility. Others are reading the post.. and that does the damage. How does it do damage for others to know what I think, and that it is merely my thinking? You say that my form of discussion is "criminal" in every country, including Texas. Thus, nobody should care for me to write what I think or care what I think. I'm quite agreeable with that, by the way, since I don't care what other people think. Oh, words will do no physical damage, that's true. Then what are you complaining about? But they can damage the reputation capital of the person, and that is violent too. How can my thoughts damage your reputation? It is just me over here thinking. I think you are a scammer. How does that affect you? If I were to say, "John Law is a scammer" then someone would think I had proof - but I haven't said things of that sort. I can prove that I think. Sum ergo cogito. Thinking is not violence. Saying words is not violence. Writing is not violence. Otherwise there would be no legal actions taken against slander and libel. Legal actions taken against slander and libel are taken on the basis that what is said isn't true. I've said that I think you are a scammer. It is true that I think it. You can write what you think about the ideas
[e-gold-list] Re: E-land, nuts, savings
Dear John Law, Jim, whenever somebody does not agree with your views, you start attacking the person. I don't agree that I've attacked anyone. I've said what I think about you, and what I think isn't favorable to you. Your messages often have an insulting tone. You are free to read other messages instead. If words are not violence, then what are you complaining about? Words are not violence. I don't like the words Robert used to convey the idea that I had used violence on, say, GK. But don't shoot at the person who brings his views. Words are not guns, either. You don't convince anyone with personal attacks and insulting language. Perhaps you are under the misconception that I seek to convince you or someone else. I don't. I write what I think. I am fully self-expressed. If you don't like what I've written, by all means don't read any further. I have perhaps done more criticising than anyone else here, Agreed. But I am not attacking any person. TGC is an artificial person. There are persons (unknown) involved. I think you've been rude to them. History is not a good yardstick. "I have but one lamp by which to light my path, and that lamp is experience." Patrick Henry. An idea may have failed in the past, it doesn't prove the idea is bad. Thucydides would not have agreed. The future must reflect the past. An idea may have succeeded in the past, it doesn't prove the idea is (still) good. The fact that there is evidence of your approach to e-land not working when it has been implemented by others puts the burden of proof on you. You have shirked that burden, saying that you don't have to demonstrate that your approach is workable. And I don't have to use e-land. And I am quite willing to tell the world that e-land is designed in the same way that John Law's Banque Royale scam was designed. If I am determined to repeat mistakes from the past, that is my business. If I am determined to keep customers away from your clutches, that's mine. You can voice your concerns and your objections, that's ok. So pleased to have your permission, mighty one. Criticising the people who try to do better than the fiasco's in the past, that's not ok. Criticism is the path to the growth of knowledge. If you won't accept any criticism, you cannot learn. If you insist on repeating the mistakes others have learned from, you are rejecting their knowledge. Sad. If somebody sets up e-land, it is his business. If somebody does, would it be you? I thought you said you were too lazy to undertake it. So, since it won't be you, it isn't your business, either. What has happened? Nobody has set up e-land. You've come here with this idea for e-land and how it should be set up and you've discussed it. Discussion invites more discussion. Here I am discussing e-land. Because what I have to say about it makes you look foolish doesn't mean I'm going to stop saying these things. If some people agree to use it, it is their business. I believe contracts must be entered knowingly, freely, and competently to be valid, and consideration must be an element for a contract to be valid. As long as you are telling the folx on this list about your ideas for e-land, I'll make some effort to point out holes in those ideas where holes are evident. Doing so enhances the freedom of those who may seek to contract with e-land in the future to do so knowingly. There is no such thing as a risk free investment. It is possible to hedge risks. One can, for example, hedge the price risk of holding gold by holding a short position at the same time. Land investment comes with greater reward too, since it is a productive asset. Land investment comes with a greater cost, too, since it is taxed nearly everywhere and since it is not portable to places where it isn't taxed. Whether the features lacking in land make up for the return on your investment, that's something everyone can decide for himself. So nice of you to say so. Fine, but as far as I have seen you have not been nearly that critical on the design of TGC shares. Why should I be? TGC shares are a very well designed investment. JP May has previously pointed out that your various predictions about TGC shares on dBourse have proven to be worthless. Yet you don't seem willing to admit you were wrong, wrong, wrong. You can point to scammers like John Law, I have done. but had he set up shop with the same design as TGC you wouldn't even know his name... And yet, I don't need to know the names of the TGC owners to know their reputation. The moderator/owner of this list, Jim Ray, invited all of us to join him at multi-player poker on The Gold Casino tonight. I have other things in play, but his invitation was very courteous. Why do you suppose he did that? Do you suppose he's previously played multi-player poker at The Gold Casino and found the cost of doing so to be consistent with the pleasure he derived from doing so? I think he's reported favorably on the experience on this list in previous
[e-gold-list] Re: basic e-gold site usage experience
Dear David, I think you need to get all your e-gold customers into 1MDC and then use its feature-set to do the great stuff you want done. 1MDC grams are e-gold, circulated with a better software system. No storage or spend fees, last I looked. - The comment field is sometimes too short for a reasonable description of a more complex transaction. I'm not asking for hundreds of characters, but 80 would be better than whatever it is now. I think if you look at your e-gold account history you can get a pretty good idea of why the memo field length is the way it is set. E-mail is still the best way to convey long messages. - The interface rejected an embedded comma, e.g., "2,500", even though it doesn't quibble about having exactly two decimal points (as does PayPal). I've never encountered difficulty with any character in the memo field. You must mean some difficulty in the amount field. The amount field is not meant to have commas, so you can tell your spreadsheet program not to include them. The amount field takes up to six decimals I think, though there is a lower-limit on the size of a transaction, I seem to recall. - Despite the fine print stating a 20-minute auto-logout timeout, it seems *much* shorter than that, and this is when I'm concentrating on going through a specific sequence of payments. If the phone rings or something, then I can absolutely forget about retaining my session. I thought the auto-logout was 10 minutes of inactivity. - The Turing number is very hard to read. I've seen the mechanism implemented on other sites (Overture, Yahoo, SpamArrest) where the graphics still retain a good amount of complexity, but I can still read the word clearly. I find the Turing number hard to read, too. I can only guess that OCR programs find it nearly impossible. I do think Yahoo and NetSol have more sophisticated Turing challenges. Frankly, I don't even see the need for the Turing challenge on the *first* login attempt, but that's just me. The whole point, and I mean the *whole* point of putting the Turing challenge in was to reduce the number of auto-login attempts. Auto-login attempts were typically scammers trying to guess e-gold passwords. Make it possible for them to do even one log-in per hour, and they will be back at it again. - Ideally, I'd like some sort of spreadsheet interface to allow me to import a series of payments. This may already be available, but I haven't looked around lately. You can get bulk pay options with outfits like PayByGold, I think, and you can also undertake such multi-spends with 1MDC. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: there's a doji for you JimD
Dear Robert, Jim, Actually, those were comments from JP May. JP = John Paul. As in John, Paul, George and Ringo. will traders have buy orders after a close above $400.00 or will they take profit when the market touches $400.00 and falls back to around current levels right afterwards? It remains to be seen. Today was quite close, though and that's fun. Just up over $398, then the shorts came in, then the shorts covered. Gold closing today at $397.30 gives me great enthusiasm for Monday, since there's plenty of time for the word to spread over the weekend that gold is closing on $400. JP MAY! See me on the dgc.chat list for a message. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: "Meltdown" in Middle East Ignites Gold
Dear Mike, From: "R. J. Tavel, J.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gee, I've seen that name before. Last night I noticed a barrage of gold-bullion ads on television, and today this guy is pressing the Yahoo! groups. As the price increases, the commissions on sales get to be tastier, making ads more worth placing. My take: Gold will be moving down relative to currencies in coming months, and these guys want suckers to buy at current market-highs. So, Mike, is that like, a guess? Or are you doing the contrarian thing by looking at the ads and touts as a gauge of a top? My expectation is that gold will run up through $400 in the next few weeks, probably reaching a short-term top around $415. Robert Prechter was in New Orleans earlier this month insisting that gold would drop in two major strokes to around $200 before coming back up. He was alone in this view. Various others at the New Orleans conference felt that gold would certainly rise as the public becomes aware that there are gains to be had. Kinda like the stock market bandwagon, but with better fundamentals. The supply trap is still there, my friend. Gold exploration has been negligible for the period from roughly 1996 to 2003. From exploration to gold bullion on the market is 36 to 60 months. Demand seems to be increasing, too, with plenty of new demand coming on the market now that China has allowed for private individuals there to own gold. Many speakers at the New Orleans (Blanchard) show seem to feel that dollar shorting is a key part of the increase in gold's price. Flight to quality. I seem to recall that being mentioned by James Turk of GoldMoney.com in his presentation as well as by Doug Casey of International Speculator. Doug also feels strongly that it is only a matter of time before a USA city gets nuked by terrorists, judging by his comments. In his presentation, James Turk suggested that the 1980 price spike was a "flagpole" and that there is a pennant formation which recently ended extending from that flagpole. If so, technical analysis theory suggests that one should expect the current bull market to result in a price that combines the height of the flagpole with an added height equal to the length of the pennant - though transposing the units of time to the price axis is still puzzling me. Many others compared the current situation to the period from 1971 to 1980. If that were to repeat, and we were to take a baseline of 1971 at $35 per ounce against a baseline of $254 per ounce then the increase to $895 intra-day in January 1980 would be a 25.57 times increase and multiplying $254 times 25.57 gets us $6494.78 per ounce in a few years time. I do think there is a band wagon effect. As people see that gold is increasing, they will get interested in buying bullion, e-gold, shares in gold mining companies, and the rally will expand. I think the underlying fundamentals are good for gold's price to rise a lot. At the same time, I agree with Doug Casey that the best results for gold stocks (shares of gold mining co's) have come when both the price of gold and the stock markets generally are seeing a bull market. So, I would tend to limit my gold shares to stable and long term winners like Newmont. One can, of course, get all kinds of detailed thoughts and analysis from me on these issues by subscribing to my new "Propertarian Gold" newsletter. E-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] the Gold Casino
Dear Friends, By the way, if you want to go to the Gold Casino and play a few hands of poker, video poker, slots, or blackjack, click here: http://8715605.thegoldcasino.com/ and if you want to buy shares of MCG, click here: http://pvcse.com/ex.change...000222 to get started. (For some reason, Sidd left these important specific links out of his last message. ;-) Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] INTGold cards
Dear eLogic, Today i got the ATM card , though i never got any response from their customer support . Tell us, please, whether the card works at an ATM or other situation, and whether the value on the card is what you were expecting. What was the delay time on the delivery between when you ordered it and when it arrived, please? Regards, Jim http://www.gdcaonline.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E-land, nuts, savings
Dear George, ... you were saying? I have strongly held views, I am passionate about the things in which I believe, I don't suffer fools gladly, and my words are not violence. Sticks and stones break bones. Words are not force. You don't like Danny's e-land idea because of the historical example of John Law. You oversimplify. I dislike the e-land idea because land is not fungible. Location determines its value. I dislike it because there are known high storage costs in most jurisdictions in the form of property taxes. I dislike Danny's specific implementation because he offers no design element for redeeming e-land for actual land, which is just like the John Law Banque Royale money fiasco and just like the National Assembly assignat fiasco. When people seem determined to repeat mistakes, those of us who remember history should speak up. Anyone new to the DGC world could and should argue DGCs are scams, because they have the OSGold example to support the theory. Not convenient, is it? Here you misuse the term "DGC" to represent all digital currencies. Digital gold currencies or DGCs are those currencies where actual gold is involved. The ones I find trustworthy, e-gold, Pecunix, GoldMoney, e-Bullion all have a stated redemption feature. 1MDC redeems to e-gold. If one cannot bail in gold and one cannot redeem gold, then the currency is likely not gold. OSGold was never proven to be a digital gold currency. It was a digital scam. Just because in some line of business there were / are scammers, it doesn't mean everybody in that business is a scammer. Very true. I believe I've elsewhere made the comment, to Robert Z for example, that responsibility is individual. Each individual is responsible for his own actions. I don't believe in collectives. I have to admit being puzzled by various of your posts where you do indicate a belief in collectives. However, I would not use anything else than gold as the digital currency backing asset for a very simple reason: risk. I think silver and platinum carry similar levels of risk. I am still evaluating palladium. The very spiky nature of its 2000 to 2003 price curve is interesting, and I'm looking into the fundamentals underlying that spike. Unlike gold investment, land investment comes with a higher risk. Indeed, and it lacks many of the features of gold. This means land might generate profit for the investment, but might also generate losses. Indeed. Land is much less portable, so it is much more often taxed. I see land, e-land as a high risk investment program, with no bad connotation, it's just an investment with a higher risk than gold investment, or savings accounts. Using land, eland, gold, egold as currency, means investing in these assets. It also means understanding the way the investment vehicle is designed. Some designs are better than others. Regarding another topic... savings are good for the economy because they free it of some debt. You sound like von Mises. What a great thing savings are! ;) Indeed. Bettered only by passive income. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Gold Casino Share Price
Dear Friends, the share price seems to have risen by 2.5%. I recently saw a share sell at 103.50 grams of gold (gAu). I'd have to look through the record to identify the share with its original date of sale, but here are some thoughts: A share purchased in September might have involved a price of gold of $12 per gAu. The buy-in for a share would thus be $1200. Currently, the "fair market" seems to be 103.50 gAu, and grams are $12.75 or so. So, cashing out today, assuming more shares sell at 103.50 gAu, the buyer would have $1,319.63 for a capital gain of $119.63 or 9.97% in just sixty days. Added to that return on investment are the dividends from 1 October and 1 November 2003. These are .65 grams each, I think. That's another 1.3 grams for a total of 104.8 gAu and bringing our total value received to $1,336.20. Gain of $136.20 brings us to 11.35% in dividend income and capital gain. Annualized, I think that's more like 68.1%. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
Robert: I wouldn't see it as making stuff up, And I would see it as you making stuff up. Rather like the Federal Reserve's approach to issuing money. And for an infiltrator that wants to change things from within you are too far without, not to mention to vocal ;o) So, there is no place in your version of reality for someone to object vocally to evil? I gather you think of me as somehow working within the system for reform. That would be a mistake. In the tradition of the dialectic, if there are no voices calling for extreme abandonment of government solutions, the mainstream practice of having government solve every problem, including monetary ones, won't be moved very far. I refer to the discredited ideas of historical dialectic since you seem to have a tendency to embrace various discredited ideas. This is an old notion people tend to defend themselves with after something bad has come to pass and they are asked why they let it happen. It is also an old and foolish notion that responsibility for actions is collective rather than individual. If you don't like something the government in Texas or the government in the USA does, you should question those individuals who did those things. For example, the men of the Federal Reserve are responsible for the actions they take. It would be foolish to suppose that those who don't issue the money are responsible for the actions of the Federal Reserve. It would be wrong to blame those who believe the paper notes where they say they are "legal tender" and accept them out of the mistaken idea that they have no choice to refuse them for accepting under fraudulent coercion. someone else is to blame. I do think responsibility is an individual matter, yes. You obviously think that it is acceptable to blame any collective for anything you don't like. This argument has been made to justify slaughtering Jews in death camps, since everyone in Nazi Germany was quite sure the Jews were to blame, collectively, for all the difficulties of post-WWI Germany. This same argument was made in Soviet Russia for the justification of slaughtering kulaks; in Cambodia for slaughtering intellectuals; in various Islamic countries for slaughtering infidels. Your argument reduces to a very absurd level, so absurd as to be macabre. Over time people tend to get punished for the actions of their respective governments - either by that same government, or the next, or an outside force. It is so refreshing to have history lessons from such a friendly person. I see you there cheering on these aggressors who tar with the broadest possible brush and lay blame for the actions of individuals on entire populations. No doubt you would have ridden a tank in the general's rank while the blitzkrieg raged and the fighting stank, to quote the rock lyric. I have no sympathy for the devil. You may well be the first person to go down in history as having called Texans polite :o))) Not at all. Since you've never been to Texas, you wouldn't know. However, I found that an armed society is a scared society full of distrust for each other. Since you've never been to Texas, you wouldn't know. You are as ignorant as your opinions are vile. I never said I owned a weapon. You should own weapons. I don't believe you if you claim that you don't own any weapons. You may be unwilling to consider all the weapons you own as weapons, but that's your foolishness. Just like a fool to bring a knife to a gunfight. Most badged low-lives have weapons, without owning them, government issue, as it were. Is that you, Mr. Z? Or do you just sympathize with the low-lifes? You seem to think nobody should own guns, yet you acknowledge that attempts to limit gun ownership do not prevent low-life scum with badges from having guns, and presumably using them to brutalize. This is most often the case in countries where gun-ownership is illegal. I gather that you are enthusiastic about such situations. You seem to acknowledge that attempts to ban gun ownership don't work. Yet you oppose gun ownership. How bizarre. and hence decided I couldn't afford having one. Whereas I've taken a page from Ayn Rand and decided that I cannot afford not to have one. I can, readily, afford not to business with evil minded people. be unable to construct a camera. A blind man can use a camera, which is the meaning of the idiom "take a picture." Ahhh, knit-picking a knit-picker, innit great? You should probably learn to spell "nit" since you want to use the term. A nit picker is a person who picks the egg cases of lice. Since nits are very tiny, they are not easy to pick out, but since nits develop into lice it is often worthwhile to destroy them by bathing or picking. Nit picking has nothing to do with knitting. Free yourself, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via
[e-gold-list] thieves and scammers
Dear John Law, There is no need to store land. You can can just let your land be out there on the street and no thief will take it in the night. You should worry more about the thieves who would take it in broad daylight. Tax collectors, for example, are notorious for taking land which is just sitting there. Easements are taken up by private companies using the eminent domain power of the state. Eminent domain may condemn all your land to state ownership, and experience suggests that "just compensation" is often just barely compensation. For example, some friends of mine in Sabine county, Texas have an old grievance against the fedgov. Apparently when Sam Rayburn reservoir was created, their land ended up being lakefront. And all the frontage was taken by the fedgov. Their compensation was $90 per acre. Recent land valuations in the area suggest that $20,000 per acre would be closer to just compensation. Do they still print the shares on paper in the usa? Betimes. But what does it matter? I don't know, John Law. No density or infinite density, if it has value it can be used to back an e-currency. Backing is irrelevant. If it is not possible to redeem the currency for the underlying unit of value, it isn't a good model. His excellence mr Jim Davidson is not interested to use e-land, so that proves e-land is an idea not worth trying... Actually it proves that I'm not interested in using it. It is an idea you say you are too lazy to implement. Perhaps, on a bet, you'd implement it on your own personal computer and leave everyone guessing whether you actually had such a system, and then browbeat the wagerer into paying you without proof. Nice try, John Law. I am excellent. If you don't agree, there's no need for you to read what I write. Reading into what I've written whatever you please may amuse you. It doesn't change what I've written. Who was telling that YOU should use e-land or e-stocks? I think it is important to have standards for evaluating these things. If you wish to be deliberately ignorant of the standards others use for evaluation, that's your lookout. As long as the moderator permits posts, I'm happy to post my criteria. Maybe you don't want my business. I don't actually care what you want. If you don't like it don't use it. Indeed. And, in not liking it, I shall retain my freedom to criticize it so that others see what's not to like and avoid getting scammed. John Law and his Banque Royale hurt a great many hundreds of thousands of Frenchmen in his day. The National Assembly and their assignats hurt many millions of Frenchmen later, but we can be pleased that many of the National Assembly went to the guillotine for their machinations. Charles Ponzi hurt a great many thousands of Americans in his day. Scammers don't like criticism. I think you are very likely a scammer. If you aren't a scammer, then you'd welcome criticism as a way of promoting your proposed business concern. I am only pointing out that a system of electronic transfer of ownership, like e-gold does for gold, silver,.. can equally be applied to many other stores of value, including productive assets like stocks and real estate, making them effectively useable as money. I've argued the ineffectiveness of your play money strategies. The objections that you and others bring actually make me think it must be a really good idea. Whereas your self-admitted laziness makes me think you'll never do anything with the idea. Which makes the whole matter moot, that is, a subject for discussion and nothing more. So much resistance to a very simple idea? Simple ideas for simple minds. My resistance is to the elements of e-land which make it seem like a scam. These elements remind me of historical examples, such as John Law's Banque Royale, the National Assembly's assignat, and so forth. I don't see any of the elements Lysander Spooner brought to his proposed land bank concepts. As if the world is going to come to an end if people can pay with something other than gold. People do pay with things other than gold. For example, they pay with silver. Hyperinflation is a bad thing. You don't seem to have lived through a period of hyperinflation, nor a period of recession-depression designed to end a period of significant inflation. I have done. I've lived in Somali east Africa when the Somaliland shilling was inflating by over 230% per annum and the central bank of Somaliland refused to issue anything larger than a 500 shilling note fearing that people would "perceive inflation." I've lived in the USA through the 1970s inflation and the 1980-1982 recession designed to end it. I have strong views about how much people suffer in such situations, and I hate to see people suffer. I am already selling stuff for 'dollars worth of e-gold' Cool. You can get bu
[e-gold-list] Re: e-wine, e-land, e-gold
Dear Craig (SnowDog), Hi! However, of all these, I trust Gold. So, tell me, Craig, what is your view of INTGold? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] pool? what pool?
Dear JP Say Jim-D, how do I enter the pool again for say Monday 17th ?! Hi, JP. E-gold.com is hosted in the USA. They have laws and stuff in the USA. Surely you must be jesting about this pool thing? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] auto-gyro theory
Dear Mike, One question: Is it possible to glide and land your autogyro dead-stick? I believe it is, or at least that doing so is consistent with auto-gyro theory. Fixed wing aircraft can, of course, glide so long as they have wings. (Glide ratios for dead stick landings of fixed wing aircraft are determined by ballistic coefficient and are not necessarily fun.) Rotary wing aircraft use the lift of the entire disk swept out by the rotor blades in place of the surface area of fixed wings. In a helicopter, power is added to the rotation of the blades which increases the height and speeds possible in flight. Necessarily, there are heights that are too great for certain speeds, and speeds which are too great for certain heights, so that a helicopter cannot necessarily auto-rotate to safe landing. (Safe landing does not mean a landing without injury or damage, it only means a survivable landing. Helicopter pilots that survive such landings often have very bad back problems.) At least in theory, an auto-gyro cannot go faster than, nor reach heights greater than it can safely auto-rotate out of. The auto-gyro provides power to a separate propellor for propulsion (thrust) and not to the rotor blades themselves. This design limits the altitude and speed combinations it can reach. You should certainly do your own research before buying an auto-gyro. I think the safety record for auto-gyros is better than either fixed wing or helicopter systems. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
Dear Robert, So now you are against lions too, are you? Lion was the mascot at Columbia U. It was easy to be against them, as they never won a football game while I attended there, nor for years after. However, I never wrote that I was against lions. Be careful when you read between the lines that you don't just make stuff up out of whole cloth. Which each time prompts me to come in at his defense. You are such a sweetheart for him. You two should get a room. while you stayed put and continued to complain, don't-cha? It is a never ending source of pleasure for me to work on changing things over here. I chose to make use of the option because I believed that if I stayed then I was to blame for things I did not like as much as the people who did things I did not like. There is an old saying, "If I fight and run away, I live to fight another day." But, a corollary is if you don't fight at all, well, that's described by an entirely different set of terms. I don't agree with your silly notion that staying in Texas functions as consent to being governed. I don't accept any blame for how things are here, since I did not make them this way. I do accept responsibility for making things here, including monetary matters, suit my taste. Hence I choose to trust him. That's nice for you. My experience is different. If you want financials, please ask him yourself ;o) Ah, but I do not. GK wouldn't provide anything acceptable to me. I seem to recall, that it was female Nope. One would imagine that when people live in a decent place among decent people they won't need to defend themselves, but this is off subject, of course. I wouldn't imagine anything of the sort. A gun culture is a part of Texas heritage, and one of the best parts. One finds that an armed society is a polite society. Got a license to carry, but rarely do. I guess that's something. Getting licences to use your own property. Special. You are a lucky guy, man. I don't even have a philosophy, You probably do, but it is unexamined. I'll email you a photo of the view from the balcony, I would not agree that you see anything. A blind man can take a photograph. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] density and other matters
Dear Danny Density is not an important property as far as backing an e-currency goes. It is if you actually store value. If you just pretend to store value, perhaps not. What's the density of stocks? One share of Berkshire Hathaway weighs less than a gram and has a value of $75,000. Seems pretty dense to me. Property taxes? I guess anyone setting up a land backed e-currency will be smart enough not to buy land where the produce is not sufficient to pay the taxes. Well, since you are self-admittedly too lazy to do the work involved, you should perhaps not wager to heavily on that guess. The problem with property taxes is that they are easily raised. Also, the voters who have no property are often called in to vote on property taxes. Cruel, but true. Reits typically pay 5-10% annual dividends and that's with these taxes already taken out. REITS also exist to gather money to do very intensive property development. Shhh! Don't tell Robert BZ. He's afraid of environmental catastrophe. All that arable land being turned into houses and offices and streets. You know, the stuff that people pay more for. Why, it could lead to starvation and ecological collapse. Most of you objections seem to have to do with redemption. Well, of course. If you aren't going to redeem e-land for land, then you are just playing with the same fire that burned John Law's Banque Royale victims, the same fire that burned everyone who touched an assignat. I don't see it necessary that e-land shares are easily redeemable for real land. Hey, John Law. I thought we had you buried. As long as it is a contractual ownership in a piece of the portfolio there is no problem. Sure, John Law. Tell it to the National Assembly of France. Oh, wait, all those guys went to the guillotine for their fiat money machinations. People invest in reits, and you cannot redeem them either. People do not use REIT shares as money. You want your money, just sell the reit shares you have. Dude, I don't have any REIT shares. I don't feed the state. REITS pay property taxes; taxes feed the state. I won't have any of your e-land currency if it is not redeemable for actual physical land. John Law. You could create a redeemable e-land if you back them with reits. You should understand, Monsieur John Law, that I have no desire to create a redeemable e-land or use your irredeemable one. Then people can redeem their shares in e-land for $ or gold, and you just sell the equivalent number of reits in the portfolio. You also don't defeat the underlying currency in which the REIT is traded. You just create a stepping stone away from it. Let's say your REIT shares trade in dollars. Your e-land currency is therefore just a complex dollar transfer scheme. Evocash is cheaper. This is not difficult. Many things which are not difficult are also not worth doing. But let's just say it is still not very practical. And that's a problem that computers can solve. Yes, but not using your algorithms. Just pay with a creditcard issued by your broker (Etrade, Ameritrade,...), Nope. Those credit cards are curiously filled with dollars. The grocery store gets paid dollars, which is why they agreed to accept credit cards in the first place. Setting up an e-currency with stocks as backing is feasible too. Yes. But is it desirable? Since the stocks trade in dollars, you've done a lot of work to achieve not very much. Why not just trade in dollars, since you love fiat money so well. With 'no winner' I mean that it is not so that only one of the currencies remains and all the others disappear You think of winning as a zero sum game, where there is only one winner and all the rest are losers. I'm much more free market than that. I see winning as an individual achievement, and the competitors are irrelevant. My wealth and prosperity does not depend on everyone else being poor and unhappy. In fact, just the opposite. I think Berkshire Hathaway is a clear winner in the stock market. That doesn't mean that shares of Goldcorp won't also do nicely this year. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
Dear Robert, Hello Jim, Howdy. At it again, are we? :o) Well, there you go. Again. You know, Graham paid a hefty price for promoting OSgold, GK claims some loss. It is by no means clear to me that the amount he claims to have lost is more than the amount he made in exchanging it with others. I suspect just the opposite. If he had not been making a profit on sales of OSGold, he would not have been promoting it. having put his wallet where his mouth was. GK certainly put his mouth - expressed his enthusiasm - for currencies which were profitable for him to exchange. Now, if INTgold is another dud, he is likely to get burnt another hole into his pocket. Whereas dozens, hundreds, or perhaps thousands of customers will be burnt as well. Shall I mark you down for the cheering section? Yay lions, boo Christians? I understand that innocent till proven guilty does not apply in line your line of thinking if a party has been guilty of a similar deed before, do I read you right? I think you mistake a discussion list for a court of law. You seem to think that GK is on trial and that you are nominated his solicitor. I'm not engaged in trying or punishing GK. I am, however, mentioning events which I think are pertinent to GK's counterattack on Frank when Frank made mention of some problems with INTGold. Frank presented what I saw as interesting evidence of complaints, to which GK seems to retort that there are no other reports of difficulty with INTGold anywhere, as if to discredit Frank's report. (It is all hearsay to me, yet I credit Frank and don't credit GK. Huh.) In a discussion of which currencies are trustworthy, it matters who thinks they are trustworthy. I don't think GK has ever made any meaningful act of contrition for his role in perhaps thousands of people getting screwed holding OSGold to the end. GK had, up until roughly 7 July 2002 been selling OSGold and telling everyone that it was a fine currency, a great currency, certainly going to recover from its banking difficulties, as far as I can see. In other words, GK used terrible judgement in my view. He now seems to be using the same sort of lousy judgement with respect to INTGold. I'm not going to let go of the view that GK has poor judgement and should not be regarded as an expert judge of currency quality. I think it would be a disservice to the readers of this list to do so. Anytime I see GK posting to this list that INTGold is a good currency, I'm prepared to bring up the OSGold fiasco. I think the comparison is useful to the readers of this list. So, if someone was the driver in a road accident a year ago, he shouldn't be permitted to ever take passengers aboard again? I don't permit drivers. I think the whole notion of driver permits is based on a truly asinine, stupid concept of the automobile as an inherently dangerous device. The world got along for tens of thousands of years, roughly 35,000 by some accounts, with people driving horses and even chariots and wagons without being licensed or permitted. If you want a state with the power to deny permission for you to use your property, go live in a police state. Er, maybe you do. I don't trust GK. I've made it very clear that I don't trust GK. In addition to his really poor judgement on OSGold, in addition to what appears to me to be similar poor reasoning on BrightPay, in addition to the way he treated a fellow exchanger on, as I recall, BrightPay, in addition to what appears to be really similar poor reasoning on INTGold, I had an exchange with his outfit in March 2002, which, as I recall, he changed the rate on in mid-stream. So, unless I see some acts of contrition on GK's part, I don't intend to forgive. Even were I to forgive, I would not be willing to forget. Now, as to this hypothetical driver who has smashed up to thousands of passengers in his wreck a year ago, yeah, he might be taking more passengers on board. I'm not going to be one of them. Is that okay with you? Or do people in your police state have to hop aboard when the maniac is driving if you happen to like the destination? I'm also going to tell other potential passengers that there is something wrong with this driver, that there might be a difficulty ahead with the destination. Now, I am not defending INTgold, Why not? although they did finally list our hosting services in their merchant directory (yeay), Really. In there with the apparent Ponzi schemes? I suppose victory is where you find it. but am really trying to figure out why you keep battering Graham I'd like to know why you keep using violent metaphors for my writing. I'm presenting information that indicates, to use your driver metaphor, what kind of driver is at the wheel. If passengers don't care for that data, they are quite capable of hopping on board his bus. There is no violence in having my say. for something he did over a year ago, Would it matter if he did it five years ago? Has he done anything to change my mind about who
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
Dear Frank, A case in point: http://talk.e-gold.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?visit=e-gold-list&id=226661333 Note that the message is posted in July 2002, there have been problems with OSGold since late May 2002, people are squawking that they cannot get access to their money, and GK is still the tireless promoter. Should one say "shameless promoter"? I guess. One of the things about this situation that makes it especially poignant for me is that many people contacted me about OSGold, desperately seeking some way out. I had never dealt with OSGold, and I had no solutions to offer. I really hate to see people suffer. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Nuts
Dear Frank, You want to use INTGold, go nuts. I like to use opportunities such as this one to point out that the archive for this list (which can be found by visiting this link: http://talk.e-gold.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?visit=e-gold-list and is a fully searchable archive) contains many posts by GK in which he expressed his desire to use OSGold. In my view, to use the vernacular, he was nuts for OSGold. Even in, say, May 2002 when OSGold was showing signs of its impending collapse, GK was right in there promoting it as an excellent currency, judging by what I've read. OSGold was an utter failure as a currency. Its use of the word "gold" in its name was clearly fraudulent. It had no gold. There was no provision for redeeming OSGold into actual gold. By some accounts, tens of thousands of users got burned, and burned badly. By GK's own account, he got burned. Yet, he remains committed to INTGold, it seems. The similarities: OSGold had no gold in inventory, yet promised it was 150% backed by gold; INTGold has not proven that it has gold in inventory to my satisfaction, has no method for redeeming INTGold for actual gold, and has some amazing disparities in its price of gold valuation, last I looked. OSGold was a vehicle for promoting OSOpps which used OSGold in a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are fraud. Fraud, for those of you looking for value judgements in a world fraught with moral relativism, is bad. INTGold has a merchant directory in which several apparent Ponzi schemes are promoted; these Ponzi schemes appear to use INTGold as a currency. Both OSGold and INTGold appear to be using the word "gold" in their name to play on the thousands of years of high reputation of gold as money. I think it is possible to exchange INTGold without being a terrible person. I have, for example, nothing against either AnyGoldNow.com or GoldAge.net, both of whom are exchangers of high reputation with me. I do think both have had a lapse of judgement in agreeing to exchange INTGold. In the case of GK, I think the lapse of judgement is one that goes back a good long ways. Whatever it was that convinced GK that OSGold was a good thing doesn't seem to have been changed in the least by the fact that OSGold went under. I've seen no indication of regret nor any act of contrition. For this reason, and for others, I do not trust GK. He might be a fine fellow, but I don't choose to do business with him. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: gold four pillars
Dear Danny, As far as I can see the properties that real estate lacks, are now created by the modern communication systems. Like...density? Gold is one of the most dense elements, so it is easier and cheaper to store. It is more compact and therefore portable. Land suddently has this property? Your cost of land storage is perhaps expressed in property taxes. The share in the properties is now just as fungible as the gold, even though the properties that back the share are not fungible. That doesn't work. How do you handle redemption? If everyone wishes to redeem their e-land at the same time, some are going to get better land than others. now non-radioactive land has become more scarce. That is a spurious argument. It assumes that supply is the only side of the equation. What of demand? A bunch of people have been made radioactive, too. Demand is down. People who have not been killed by the terror-nuke are now hunkering down. They would be less interested in speculating on a bunch of land. Land which is not mountainous would plummet in value on the theory that less radioactivity will get to the high mountain valleys or into the deep shaft mines. Moreover, you assume that land cannot be manufactured. Sea Structures Inc. disagrees. You assume that land on other planets or in free-orbiting space colonies won't create additional supply. Japan has built an entire airport on land that it reclaimed from the sea. Your own name suggests a "Pays Bas" origin - the Dutch have reclaimed land from the sea for centuries. North Sea oil platforms are created land. Residensea is land in motion. So, it becomes just a question of having a sufficiently diversifed portfolio of properties in order to neutralise the 'location problem' Again, this solution works right up until people want to redeem their e-land for land. John Law tried the same trick with his fiat paper money based on the land in the Mississipi valley. The result was disaster. His "Banque Royale" was the only official source of money. Unfortunately, redeeming the paper for its underlying asset proved to be impossible. A set of "realizers" including the famous French mathematician Lagrange began to unload their currency for anything of value. Lagrange himself, finding nothing more suitable, bought an entire edition of the new dictionary by Bayles. When the money was worthless, millions suffered. To the everlasting shame of the French, they were not willing to learn their lesson. In 1792, the new National Assembly proclaimed a paper assignat backed again by land. In this case, it was land seized from the Catholic church, land right there in France. Again, the temptations of inflation were too great, and the redemption feature was completely lacking. Fiat money inflation destroyed the French economy, leading to the success of Napoleon who, although he had many deficits, was committed to gold and silver specie for all payments. In a sort of historical irony, Napoleon sold the land of the Mississippi Valley which had been the underlying asset behind the John Law money to the United States. I think the USA paid 3 cents per acre, and paid in gold. That was back when three cents was worth something. If you have 1 gram of gold in your e-gold account, you cannot redeem it either. That's true of e-gold, certainly. With an ounce of gold in my e-Bullion account, I can gain redemption. Gram bars of gold exist, though they carry a terrible premium to spot. Which is another argument in favor of e-land. Not entirely. Not since you seem to be following the examples of John Law's Banque Royale and the National Assembly's assignat into the realm of non-redemption. Cutting up a 400oz bar is not practical either. It is a lot more practical than cutting up or subdividing land. When I've divided 400 ounces of gold into 400 one-ounce pieces, each of them is still gold, each of them is as valuable as any other. If I divide a 400 ounce bar into some 12,000 plus grams of gold, each gram is as valuable as any other. With melting and re-casting, I can do it with little waste, and the waste melt or gold shot left over is still gold, has the same properties, and can be recovered. So, fungibility and divisibility remain useful properties of gold, and aren't useful properties of land. But because larger pieces of land can be more valuable, e-land has the possibility of increasing the average value of its holdings by buying neighbouring pieces. Not always. What happens if that land next door is not for sale? Now your e-land participants are increasing the value of the land of non-participants. With gold, the average value of the gold does not increase with buying more bars. Hmm? How's that again? Of course, buying more bars, and not selling them, is beneficial to the price of gold. E-gold participants do a minor bit to increase the value of gold of non-participants. As long as not everyone agrees that land is better than gold, I can go on buying land at cheaper p
[e-gold-list] Re: Interesting Change
Dear Patrick and Frank, No, Patrick, the interface at e-gold.com did not always force you to choose units. Previously, and you may remember the discussion on this list or visit the archive to check, the user community "voted" to have "grams" be the default unit for e-gold spends. Well, one of the exchangers recently spent a few hundred grams when he meant to spend a few hundred dollars worth of gold. It wasn't me, and I won't name names as it is a little embarrassing. Obviously, we are all human, and errors happen. By having the system to default to "choose" instead of to "grams" this particular error is less likely. So, Frank is right to be enthusiastic. And, you aren't missing much - just a little history. I suppose this would be a good time to point out that counting noses never helped anything. Regards, Jim http://www.gdcaonline.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: yet another scam e-mail
Dear Chuck, Your message is very welcome. What you've included is a typical scam-spam. I don't know if the "Dear To_Complete To_Complete" line is working, but that would probably become the e-gold user name and number at some point. These names and numbers are easy enough to get off the e-gold SCI. The message is definitely not from e-gold. In fact, you can see from the headers that it is from Russia, without love. Received: from be1.masterhost.ru (217.16.16.201) Furthermore, the scammer sent along a return-path: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You'll notice this part of the message: You must complete this process by clicking on the link below and entering your e-gold account number and password. Never, ever agree to do so. Anyone clicking on any link in any e-mail and entering their e-gold account number and password is doing something that e-gold would never request you to do. E-gold does not ask you to verify anything by clicking on a link in an e-mail and entering your account number and password. Ever. This is done for your protection --- becaurse Further comment here would be silly. The actual address, while it appears to be an e-gold.com address, is actually at: Goldan.da.ru Da = yes in the Russian language. Presumably, the da.ru domain is hosting someone's account named "Goldan." Vladimir Ermakov of RTcomm.ru or Vitaly Peresetsky might be persons to contact there with inquiries on this matter. It should no take them long to bring down the scam site. It shouldn't take masterhost.ru too long to pull the e-mail accounts, either. Regards, Jim http://www.gdcaonline.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Keynes vs. Fisher
Dear John, That's why we need to take Keynes' advice and stamp expiration dates on money. I hadn't read that one. I have read about a proposal by Irving Fisher in the 1930s to require a tax stamp on each Federal Reserve Note. The idea is touted in a Dallas Federal Reserve web page of inflationary ideas, and given the thought of 1% per month either taken from your bank accounts or stamped on the notes you have. If your FRN lacks the tax stamp, it isn't legal tender. If it lacks several monthly stamps, it doesn't become legal tender until they've all been provided. A thoroughly nasty bit of both inflationary policy and control policy. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] gold four pillars
Dear Danny, I hadn't noticed your e-mail address was fourpillars.net before. I wonder which four pillars are at stake here? I've read TE Lawrence's _Seven Pillars_ and I'm aware of "Five Pillars of Islam." Are you referring to the pillars of the Common Economic Protocol? The modern communication systems change the whole game. It changes many games. And it is well beyond modern. I don't see any chance for a move back towards a kind of gold standard. I think free market money will overcome any obstacles set in its path by governments. Having governments issue money has proven to be disaster. EC Riegel was pointed this fact out in the 1940s. F. Hayek pointed it out in 1976 in his _The Denationalization of Money_ and Andrew Dickson White pointed it out centuries ago in his essay on _Fiat Inflation in France_. A gold standard, fixing the dollar to gold (and therefore price fixing gold) would certainly be a great leap backwards. For example, why not an e-currency backed by real estate? It could be better than gold. No, it could not. Gold has some properties that real estate would always lack. First, gold is fungible. Which means it is the same if you take an ounce or a gram. Real estate is very different. The analogous situation has been stated by James Turk in pointing out that e-gold and GoldMoney (and now Pecunix) only have 400 ounce bars on hand, while e-Bullion has coins on hand as well as bars. The smaller sizes of coins and their convenient shape make them more desirable. Yet, once they are exhausted, only bars are left. Which means that in a full-redemption scenario where everyone redeems for physical gold, some get better, more desirable coins while others bulky and less desirable bars. With land, you have the "location-location-location" problem. In other words, the three most important things in selling real estate are location, location, and location. Where the land is makes all the difference. Buying land where nobody is (at a low price) and developing it so that it is very desirable makes it possible to attract people to it so it has a high price. Likewise, having land where Grey Davis can avoid sending fleets of firefighting equipment in a fit of pique over losing the recall election might turn it into a pile of burning rubble on scorched earth. Land therefore lacks fungibility. It also lacks one of the sub-features of fungibility - divisibility. There are such things as quantum units of gold. Atoms of gold are elemental and if you subdivide what is left is not gold. Of course, ownership of less than an atom of gold could be obtained by dividing the ownership, but I don't see how redemption would work out very well in that case. Land on the other hand, stops being nearly as useful as you subdivide into square feet and then square inches. In fact, author Spencer MacCallum has written extensively on the problems of subdivision. It tends to work out poorly. A larger piece of land has many advantages. Gold also has density to favor it. That means that storing gold in a bullion bank is less difficult than storing land. When you disregard the possibility of redemption, you don't need storage. But, I think redemption will prove to be a key feature of reputation. Gold also has much higher reputation. By the way, Lysander Spooner wrote extensively on a private land bank issuing money backed by land. You might look for these pages on the web. Some of the awdal.com enthusiasts scanned and posted them, and there was a discussion of their location on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] group. Gold does not decay, but it does also not grow. Your statement here made me think about land growing. Of course, it is possible to create new land. Mike Oliver lifted a bunch of silt onto two sub-sea mounts to bring them above mean high tide. He called the new land Minerva. That was 1972. Minerva was conquered that year by Tonga. The Dutch have created polders and other engineering works to recover land from the sea. So, your currency may be inflated. The Moon and Mars and various asteroids offer medium-term opportunities for expanding the supply. Sea Structures Inc. designed a concrete flotation system which was touted at Oceania.org about a decade ago. A piece of land is in the same category. An acre of land today will still be the same acre of land in ??? years, ... But the value of the land will change a great deal depending on what people are doing with it and what they are doing with land nearby. Let's say that Doug Casey is right, and Islamic terrorists set of a nuclear weapon in a major USA city in the next few years. Is that acre of land at the heart of the city of Hiroshima the same acre it was in 1944? Given the conversion of Japanese industry to the war, is it the same acre that it was in 1904? Every 20 years I can cut big trees on the land and harvest wood, or perhaps every year I can pick apples... Which points up the disparity between different acres of land. One acre is wooded. A
[e-gold-list] Re: there you go
Dear JP, there you go Jim, sure enough it dropped 5 bucks ... :O And has bounced back nicely. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
Dear Robert, Well Jim, you see, we have borrowed against our shares Really?! That's quite extraordinary. Who is offering to lend you money against your shares of TGC? I found no such offer information on dBourse.com. to buy more shares to borrow against I guess if you value the asset enough you'd borrow to have it. How is that inflationary? Same number of grams chasing more goods. Deflation. and we then traded some gold puts Did you? On the Comex? And why trade puts? Were you hedging your position in gold? Against what currency? and ended up with almost twice the fiat we had started with Yes, but you didn't get to print that paper, did you? You don't generate inflation by becoming wealthy, Robert. Inflation comes from the issue power of money. When you start issuing your own paper money, please let me know. Then we can worry about you creating inflation. It is a myth, promulgated by the banking cartel, that the stock market exuberance of the 1920s or the 1990s was inflationary. The inflation was caused by the Federal Reserve's monetary policies in both instances. Inflation leads to stock market exuberance. Exuberance is therefore the effect, not the cause. I do wish more people would study economics. and get to keep a cut of the dividends as well. Again, how is that inflationary? Where do you think the money comes from? We then bought e-gold from our own subsidiary at no surcharge, Swell beans. And they probably bought it from the public at a discount. stored at 1MDC I am very glad of it. At last you say something which is not in the least bit zany. and threw a party from the profits. Well, swell. So, easy come, easy go. How have you created any inflation? Just imagine what we could do if there were 20 companies listed and a bit more of activity. Make more money so you can throw more parties so you can meet more investors so you can invest more Other People's Money (OPM) and make more money...so you can throw more parties... Which isn't inflationary. Happily. exchangers who are trading with each other and in the end with OmniPay. I've managed to avoid trading with OmniPay for a very long time. It just doesn't make good business sense to do it. In the meantime exchangers will increase fees fro in-exchange and drop fees for outexchange to make a quick buck, as they should. Excellent. Because, when you ran through all those purchases and margins and puts and sales and conversions and dividends and ended up having a party, I thought you might be criticizing the idea of making profits. Have I misunderstood you? You seem to be saying that buying and selling stocks is somehow inflationary, but exchanging gold for fiat currencies is as it should be? Huh? Next people who habitualy spend $100 a month at TGC and pay us $7.50 for a hosting account are struggling to get their hands on e-gold this month. Really. Well, it comes and goes. Sometimes there is plenty of e-gold, sometimes not so much. Maybe their struggle would be easier if they were winning more bets? http://8715605.thegoldcasino.com/ Of course, as you suggested, some people have e-gold in stock to buy shares, but I could hold the internal trade stats of CF$x accounts at the time of the TGC casino against your argument. You mean the months from about June when it became clear that TGC would go forward with a listing on dBourse to October when the last share sold? Basically there was quite a spike. How is it a spike if it happens over months? Isn't that a trend? And TGC didn't even sell out for months Indeed. and JPM cornered 10% of the market. Yes, that JP May, he's quite a clever guy. Puts his money where his mouth is, and everything. JP rocks! Based on that scenario, if there was 20 types of shares, and some were being bid up just before dividend time, ther *would* be a run on e-gold. And how is that bad? And then there is the variable called spot rate. Yes. I'm intimately familiar with this variable and its impact on exchanges. Imagine between OmniPay securing 2,000,000 worth and making the spends to the exchangers the market drops $8 per ounze. Well, since I expect OmniPay to sell as high as they can get away with, and buy for as little as possible, I guess they'd make a profit. It is possible that they would have a contract for sale at a strike price, unaffected by shifts in the spot price. What if the price of gold were to rise by $8 an ounce? Of course, in gold terms that doesn't make a difference, but when the shares are sold and the sellers want to outexchange... Why do the sellers want to outexchange? Here you were telling me that your customers have an identified shortage of e-gold. Is that true? So they are seeking to buy e-gold, not outexchange. All the while exchangers recall your posts and don't increase the fees on outexchanges because 'just yesterday everyone wanted to buy', and then the market drops some more... Any belief you may have about exchangers far and wide hanging on every word of mi
[e-gold-list] RE: gold on paper
Dear Arik, Shalom. I would say the shares should represent an ownership interest in the income potential of the underlying company. Not exactly. I would say that a share represents an ownership interest in the company assets, earnings and management. Although there are different "powers" to shares (or different kinds of shares), usually shares represent more than the interest in revenue. Revenue is not income. Revenue is sales. It is only net income after cost of goods sold, expenses, interest, and taxes. Assets are interesting, but the main thing shareholders wish to see is assets performing. No earnings is very bad for stock prices, which means that shareholders are very interested in assets which perform to produce earnings. It is often the case that a company which has poor earnings is bought by arbitrageurs and broken up into its component assets which are sold to other companies which believe they can make those assets perform. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] e-gold for stocks
Dear Robert, First there is a run on e-gold, 2,000,000.00 dollars' worth. There are some other misapprehensions about this situation which I think need elucidating. You seem to insist that the people who wish to buy stocks with e-gold are all people who have no e-gold on hand. I think that's a mistake. Once the shares are bought and the sellers cash out there is a 2,000,000 dollar worth of e-gold surplus. Here you assume that the sellers who receive e-gold for stock don't have any ability to spend e-gold for things like programming. Yet, the Gold Casino has done so. It also spends e-gold paying off bets, spends e-gold for domain registrations, spends e-gold for accounting - it can spend e-gold on nearly everything it does. Even if the sellers of stock turn their e-gold back into cash, they have, at the end of the day, released e-gold back to exchangers who are then able to sell it. So, I don't see why a run on e-gold is expected. Moreover, I don't see how any of this information amounts to an inflationary tendency from stock exchanges offering to accept gold in exchange for shares. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] difference in some shares
Dear Robert, I do think the fact that shares are priced in grams of gold on dBourse and on PVCSE makes a difference. It is a non-trivial feature of both private stock exchanges. Remember that it took an emergency declaration of Congress in March 1933 to give Franklin Roosevelt the power to declare all gold-denominated contracts in the USA invalid. Since he did that in the same fell swoop with which he abolished private ownership of gold for Americans and inflated the "dollar" from about a twentieth of an ounce to about a thirty-fifth of an ounce (seventy-five percent inflation in one go!) he needed some extraordinary power. Of course, the central bankers, aka the Federal Reserve, had set things in motion so that a deep dark depression was well in hand by March 1933. Anyone who has read about the monetary history of the USA, from, say, Milton Friedman, understands that the depression was due chiefly to governmental action (the Smoot Hawley tariff) and Fed monetary policy. warn about *possible* inflationary tendencies of e-gold derivatives, for lack of a better word. I'm baffled how trading shares of stock in grams of gold, using e-gold or Pecunix as a currency has any sort of an inflationary tendency. People use money for all kinds of things. What causes inflation, Robert? Inflation is caused by increasing the supply of money. The whole point of using gold as money is to avoid any rapid increase in the supply. The supply of gold seems to increase about 2% per annum, and has done so on average at about that rate for thousands of years. If you talk to monetary policy "experts" such as they are, they will tell you that the focus of monetary policy for fiat currencies should be to create slow, stable inflation. They like the number to be about 2% per year. In other words, they like inflation to approximate what would happen if there were no government fiat money and we all used gold as money. Did you know that from 1 January 1988 to 31 December 2002 there was 52% inflation? Half the value of money and more wiped out in a decade and a half. Wow. Which is what comes from relying on the goofballs at the Fed for monetary policy. In private conversations with several clients of ours I realized that they believed that TGC shares were good as gold, NOT because of good and sound business practices and NOT because of dividend payments in gold, BUT because they paid gold for them and because they are traded in gold. The allure of gold. I would be surprised if the Gold Casino were not aware of this allure in choosing its name. There is, however, something to it. Dollars could start hyperinflating next week. I think it was Danny van den Berghe who wrote that dollars are the stock of the USA, in some sense. Well, that stock is way down as expressed in other currenices. And, what does that mean, the stock of the USA? In some sense, it means that the dollars are a promissory note against the taxpayers of the USA. Take a number. Gold is a better way to write the contracts for dBourse and for PVCSE because if the currency involved in the exchange is gold grams, there is no pretext for USA governmental regulation, because if the currency is gold then the contract is not dependent on currency fluctuations. Your customers may be in Malaysia, I suppose? In which case they have some money in gold and some money in dollars and some money in local currency. The ringgit, right? Well, if they are buying a stock which is denominated in dollars, they are faced with the fluctuations in the dollar price of the stock and they are also faced with the fluctuations in the ringgit price of dollars, right? Whereas with gold pricing, they face the same two effects, but with an overall, current trend upward in the price of gold against most currencies, and an equally obvious trend downward in the value of the dollar. Tell me which you'd rather hold. Dollars or gold? You have to place $10K of value into one or the other for a year. Do you buy dollar-denominated stocks at this stage in the bear market rally? Do you buy gold-denominated stocks? Do you hold cash in dollars? Do you hold grams of gold? Even some of those who are seemingly aware that outexchanges are not possible appear to have some weird concept about the mere fact of trading a share in gold gives the share an inherent value beyond mere bid and ask. I think it gives some interesting features, if one is converting dollars to gold, buying gold grams in July 2003, buying a share of The Gold Casino, and then getting dividends in grams of gold every month. During that same period, the price per gram of gold has increased dramatically, reaching a recent high of about $392.50. As Danny pointed out, we could decide to trade Microsoft shares in gold and it would be no different. You could decide to buy some Microsoft shares, and pay someone some e-gold, who would pay dollars to a broker, who would send those shares somewhere. Maybe you'd end up with them. But, it would al
[e-gold-list] Re: What is TGC Share?
Dear Robert, Up to and just prior to the South Sea Bubble :o) I remember those times. That Newton, what a hoot. What you are talking about is "par value." Many stocks are now issued with zero par value and some with a trivial par value. The free market does seem to be willing to institute clever variations on a theme. If the market will bear it, I don't see the harm in it. If issuing high par value stocks is such a great idea, where are all the stocks with high par values? Why doesn't the public demand more of them? Are preferred stocks any better at having higher par values? It may be that the buyers don't seek higher par values because they don't want everyone else in the investor community to rob the company treasury at the first hint of trouble by rushing to redeem. It is an interesting issue, though. So, back to the good old days, huh? Before electricity, before Newton put the pound sterling on the gold standard, before relativity and quantum mechanics, before computers. It does "take me back." Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] gold on paper
Dear Robert, Has it appeared to anyone that we are essentially turning our gold into paper when we invest in stocks? Yes, of course. Or, put another way, gold is money and you can invest your money in stocks. therefore the share 'represent' gold. I would not say so. I would say the shares should represent an ownership interest in the income potential of the underlying company. In other words, a share of stock in The Gold Casino http://8715605.thegoldcasino.com/ represents an interest in the stream of future earnings of the casino. Its value is therefore based on the net present value of that future earnings stream. Since that ownership interest in that stream of future earnings is expressed very directly in terms of dividends (and nice ones, too) it is well that the dividends are paid in gold. By the same token, I'd argue that it is essentially a promissary note twice removed from gold. And that makes it paper - digital paper if you will. I disagree with the "promissory note" idea. A promissory note is a note to pay the principle invested at some future date. It may contain terms for payment of interest, which both your philosophy and mine refer to as usury. It is possible to organize a promissory note for fee. Shares of stock, however, are something different. The dividends paid are not interest. They are a portion of the earnings of the company. Though some stocks have been issued which do not offer to pay dividends, I think these are much more speculative in nature. For a while, Microsoft didn't pay cash dividends, but seemed to endlessly split its stock - paying a dividend in more shares of stock. While the stock price was consistently rising, that was acceptable to investors. More recently, Microsoft has begun paying dividends, though only a tiny amount of earnings per share, as I understand it. Of course, TGC is generating revenue in gold and hence it is able to pay dividends and redeem shares for gold. That is if they are (a) profitable and (b) able to pay their way in gold as well - which they are unlikely to be able to do. I would expect that at least wages are paid in fiat. I would expect no such thing. If I were them, I'd pay only contractors and denominate all such contracts in gold. I'd pay out in gold, too, and assist the contractors or employees in finding exchangers who can assist in converting, say, e-gold to local currency. Major areas of cost for the Gold Casino: domain registration, web hosting, web development, flash programming, other programming, help desk support, accounting - all of these are presently available from various contractors who accept e-gold. no way of being sure that the shares are in fact redeemable for e-gold, are we? Since there is a private market for the exchange of shares, and since share sales are in grams of gold, yes, I do think the shares are redeemable for gold. E-gold and other currencies are available for bailment and redemption of dBourse accounts, I think. (which isn't regulated anywhere and hence there is no garantee that a sale to anyone but a third party is even possible), I think dBourse is regulated by contract, by public scrutiny of which your message is an example, and by the management of the Gold Casino. I don't see any indication anywhere that TGC offers or plans to buy back the stock it has made available to the public. they then would inexchange e-gold to honour their promise. I suppose you could buy a share, today, wait for the dividend on 1 November and try to get your dividend payment out of your dBourse account and into your e-gold account. That would indicate something about whether their promises are any good. Having done exactly that dozens of times with my TGC account, I feel very confident that these guys are good to their word. I have never heard of anyone who has been screwed by TGC after placing bets and winning gold. we have no way of telling, do we? We don't have a huge amount of information about the exact behavior of TGC with regards to money. However, I think JP May has previously stated that ISL did a bunch of the programming for TGC. I have heard from one of the programmers of the multi-player poker on TGC. So, these major areas of expense appear to me to very likely have been paid in gold, either e-gold or GoldMoney or Pecunix or e-Bullion. I think it very likely that the other major identifiable expense areas can also be paid in e-gold or one of the other forms of online gold. I could get you a list of vendors who accept e-gold for domain registrations, a list of those who accept e-gold for web and domain hosting and e-mail hosting, a list of those who accept e-gold for accounting. But, I feel confident that you could get these results for yourself. Of course, I still think it's all a great idea and all, I was just pondering the eery similarities of how people with the best of intentions are creating precedents that other then abuse to remove the value components from money... I think you are co
[e-gold-list] Re: uncomfortable hammer
Dear JP, JimD, purely FWIW, that was just ANOTHER hammer. (Perhaps signalling another [temporary?] change in direction?) There was definitely a hammer on Friday 24 October near the close in New York. The price went up to $392.50 or so intra-day and closed at $388.20. My response was to close out some of my positions and make sure that any gold coming in at $388.20 went out before I stopped operations for the sabbath on Saturday at sundown. I don't mind buying near the top if I can sell there, too. Based on my technical analysis, which has met with a great deal of criticism by others, and which is nothing compared to "It's All in the Charts" of yore, I think the peak on Friday touched the upper lines of two of several apparent trading channels. The recent low of around $366.60 or so (again, intra-day) is the bottom of the narrower of these two channels. This narrower channel has a steeper slope. It is also a more recent "turn" of events. So, I think, yes, we have a short-term change of direction. If the newer narrower channel represents the expected trading range, then gold should drift to $378 in the next few days, or $380 by next week. If the wider and older and less steep trading channel is the expected trading range, gold would drop as low as the $365 range in the next three or four weeks, $370 if it takes its time coming down. I note that the wider range seems less likely since there is a good deal of support showing at $375 on the 60-day chart. Volatility also seems to be increasing, so the shifts should follow a narrower channel; the identifiable narrower channel is steeper, so that's better for higher prices sooner. So, it looks like we're both going to miss on the gold price hitting $400/oz for that discussion we've had over on dgc.chat. That price might be as much as 45 days from Friday. Call it 8 December. It may be as soon as 36 days from Friday. 30 November. The Friday closes nearest those dates are 28 November and 5 December, but the 28th is the day after Thanksgiving in New York, so I'll have to check the Comex to see if they are open. Something to think about. What's your view, JP? Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Casino Technology/Algorithms
Dear Adam, A typical mechanical slot machine has 3 reals, These are "reels" like the reels of film in a camera. "Reals" with an accent mark are some sort of royal Spanish coins. A virtual real typically has 32, 64, 128 or 256 stops (2^5, 2^6, 2^7, 2^8). For programming convenience, obviously. Any number could be programmed. High tech stepping motors stop the physical reals at this predetermined location in their rotation. Yes, in physical casinos. It cannot be in "taking money mode" and later in "giving money mode", it cannot be hot then cold (except by outcomes of pure probability). That's the propaganda. Either the slot is loose or tight. Is this true? Does Macy's tell Gimbel's? Would the casinos admit to such manipulations? Are virtual reals in a machine set and fixed, or can a different set of virtual reals be used given certain criteria (time of day, machine win/loss record, etc). A machine can be designed to do what you suggest. Therefore slot machines could operate on these lines. Getting the manufacturers or casinos to admit to such things seems unlikely. This would prevent the casual observers from noticing the frequency (or lack thereof) of a particular icon in a particular position. Wouldn't it encourage more play to have the casual observers noticing the frequency of icons? The house wins enough on slots to encourage lots of play. Can a particular a game have "rules"? Such a design is possible. But, how would you establish it for a given casino machine? Or, can a machine of multiple "sets" of reals? An online casino could have such a machine. I'm not sure how one would do that trick in a physical casino. Question: are you the Adam Selene of LFC fame? Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Cashcards - Ridiculous Delays and False Promises
Dear Sliplip, Has anyone noticed the ridiculous delays that cashcards has been undergoing lately? Quite a lot of people have. It's been more than a 'few days', Steve... it's been a few weeks. I think I speak for us all when I say I want an explanation. I agree completely. I have asked Steve repeatedly to comment on his obvious cash flow difficulties. The long and short of it is that he has not commented publicly. There is a cash flow problem, which all of us CashCards.net users have been experiencing. Various requests for out-exchange from V-cash to, say, ATM cards or e-gold have been delayed. I assume that Steve is working hard to get it all sorted. My patience, and the patience of my friends and clients, has run very thin. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: What is TGC Share?
Dear Tien, I read many posts about TGC share. Can you tell me what is it? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Any question you sincerely want to have answered is not a stupid question. Questions asked out of ignorance are the path to enlightenment. TGC is The Gold Casino. Go there now to gamble for fun or for gold. http://8715605.thegoldcasino.com/ You can gamble for free using a "fun cash" account or you can gamble for gold using e-gold, GoldMoney, e-Bullion, or Pecunix. TGC shares are sold on the dBourse.com exchange. Go there now to learn more. http://dbourse.com/ Is it an investment program? Yes. Can we make profit with that shares? Yes. At the first of each month, TGC pays out .65 grams per share. So, if you buy one share for, say, 100.5 grams on 31 October 2003, pick up the dividend of .65 grams on 1 November 2003, and then sell the share for 100.1 grams on 2 November 2003, you are ahead .25 grams. Not bad for three days of commitment. If that play works twelve times a year, you make 3 grams for every 100 grams you put up. Your risk would be minimal since you hold shares for such a short time. Of course, there is no guarantee that your bid or ask prices will result in exchange activity. Or, you can just buy and hold a share, and pick up .65 x 12 grams a year = 7.8 grams. Assuming you paid 102.50 which is an asking price now on the exchange, your investment is paying 7.6% per annum. That's not bad. Plus, there is some expectation that dividends will go up further - they are already up since the stock began to be offered. How to do that. Please tell me as more as you can because I have some egolds and need to do something with it. Right. Okay, there is another private stock exchange you might find interesting. Go there now: http://pvcse.com/ex.change...000222 On this exchange, PVCSE, members can buy shares of MicroCasinoGold, or MCG. MCG owns shares of TGC, and offers you a stake in a share. You pay MCG 0.55 grams for half a percent of a TGC share. I gather that MCG pays out 95% of the dividends it receives on each share. So there is a 10% fee for buying in and a 5% fee on the dividends. MCG is sort of a mutual fund holding shares of TGC. Mutual in the sense that a mutual benefit is obtained by the group of investors putting up gold for TGC shares through the MCG offering. The 10% load on buy-in and the 5% load on dividends are how the managers of MCG make their money. The 10% load on buy in represents a TGC share price of 110 grams of gold per share. You do have to apply for membership in PVCSE in order to buy MCG shares, just as you have to apply for membership in dBourse to trade shares of TGC. PVCSE, by the way, stands for private venture capital stock exchange. You also have to use Pecunix gAu (gram gold where Au is the chemical symbol for gold, from aurum, Latin for gold). Pecunix does work with at least one exchanger, Open2Exchange.com where you can get gram for gram exchanges of your e-gold into Pecunix. I think Cambist.net also offers a good rate on e-gold to Pecunix exchanges. There is another company already listed on PVCSE, and its initial share offering has already been fulfilled. You might try making an offer for some of the PVH shares. I anticipate some other stocks being listed on PVCSE soon, which is part of my motivation for telling you about it. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: A Free Zone in Alabama
Dear Frank, As interesting as this topic has become for me, it appears, alas, to be politics and not money. It isn't even the politics of money. So, I fear we shall all be excoriated by the moderator of this list who wants us to discuss money. And nothing but. > The Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org) is a > huge Libertarian group which is attempting to effect change > by working within the system (a strategy which I personally > feel will fail, but more power to them.) They are certainly an interesting group. Their vote, in which I did not participate, chose New Hampshire as their chosen destination state. On the whole, New Hampshire seems to have its act together already. A splinter group has already formed of those wishing to relocate to the Mountain West. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mountain_West_Freedom_Network/ Sometimes doing anything is better than talking about everything. Discussion lists are for discussions. Sometimes doing something is exactly the wrong thing to do. For example, voting in a political context is almost certainly immoral, mistaken, unlikely to change anything, and wrong. However, as this discussion is supposed to be about money, can we count on you to tell us what sort of money is used in the Free Zone in Alabama? Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] dispute between Remco Boom and an exchanger
Dear Remco Boom, On Thursday, Oct 23, 2003, at 11:44 US/Central, Remco Boom wrote: Given all the info I find it somewhat hard to believe this payment has been missing for over 4 months. The exchanger can't have *that many* accounts and they knew the amount and when it came in Okay, Remco. Perhaps you'd like to initiate a formal complaint against the exchanger using the Global Digital Currencies Association? We've been looking to conduct an online dispute proceeding. Who is the exchanger in question? Regards, Jim http://www.gdcaonline.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: A Free Zone in Alabama
Dear Frank, I think Mr. Johnson needs help getting some listings for: http://pvcse.com/ex.change...000222 What could be better than running all the private functions with investments gathered online? Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] fake V-cash login spam
Dear Friends, A fake log-in scam e-mail is going around. It requests that you log into your Cash Cards account. It is yet another password stealing scam. Don't be taken in. Don't give the value of your V-cash account to thieves. Don't ever log into any online account from any e-mail you receive. Regards, Jim http://www.gdcaonline.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] good catch, but...
Dear Jonathan, One fatal mistake, that's a pretty minute payment receive fee for a USD 299 payment :-) That's true, but... Don't tell the scammers who read this list how to construct an accurate payment receive fee! Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Do you trust asianagold.com?
Dear Tien, Many thanks for your advice. I echo the sentiments of the others. AsianaGold is a good service. I hope asianagold admin is here and will contact me because I need exchange with you ;) I think the best way to reach them, other than a visit to Asianagold.com is to e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] electronic money orders
Dear Friends, Please take a look at: http://icis.alfii.com/index.cfm?cookID=190 These guys accept e-gold and e-Bullion. They offer an electronic money order which is fast, easy to use, and anonymous. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Exchangers: R. L. Wahl Tampa Exchange, Inc.
Dear Ra, Anyone knows whether can trust this exchanger or not. Your experiences, thoughts? http://www.tampaexchange.net/ That exchanger is Rob Wahl, Tampa Exchange. He's always been reputable to my knowledge. He's been in the business for years. I think he's got pretty high integrity. For example, he was very upset about the idea of exchanging INTGold, which he thinks is some sort of scam judging by some of his messages to a list I'm on. I completely agree with this opinion of INTGold. I don't have any recollection of having exchanged with Rob's outfit. But, I know of quite a few others who have done so, and have had excellent results. So, it seems like a fair bet. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: EcMA
Dear Mark, Jim email me what the problem is and I'll fix it for you. No, evidently, you won't. If you are referring to the start date, sorry that is the only thing I can't change as three other exchange providers have complained about that date and Alex had to change it. I gather you think that the matter of whether EzEz.com started exchange operations in 2003 is settled by the accounts of these other exchange providers. However, I have e-gold account records of receiving gold and selling it in bulk beginning in January 2002. So, I would disagree with the "start date" if you are still listing 2003. we just make lists like the phone book, I believe your lists contain information that would not be found in a phone book. For example, I've seen a set of prices listed for various sizes of exchange with which I have been in agreement. I'm new to the digital sig. I think digital signatures may be very useful, and I really appreciate your offer to publish PGP public keys along with your various other listings of merchant information. One interesting thought in this regard would be a web page which contains a form. A person would come to the page, paste in a digitally signed message. He would then select a merchant's web site from a drop down list. He clicks "submit" and the web server performs a PGP signature validation. If it comes up matching the particular merchant chosen, that is reported. If it matches any other PGP key on file, or on a remote key server, that is reported. If there is no way to validate the signature, that is reported. If the signature is in fact invalid, that is reported. So, someone knowing where to look for this service would not need to have PGP himself or know much more than how to work a web form. So what got them so popular? Banks were enrolled in the process to encourage merchants to get merchant accounts and offer to accept credit cards. Eventually, it became clear that having a credit card was a reasonable way to make purchases or obtain bank credit, and offering to accept credit cards was a reasonable way to encourage purchases. Remember when ATM I'm told that the first automated teller machine was invented in 1939. It did take quite a while for them to catch on. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: digital signatures
Dear Jeff, The problem is most "consumers" don't grok digital signatures. Yes, that's true. The people are ignorant. The only way to solve that problem is to enlighten their ignorance. Jay W. is the only "representative" I know who consistently digitally signs messages. I think a review of the archive for this list would reveal that Paul Vahur of Icegold also reliably signs his messages. Jay rules! Jay also rocks. JPM rocks! He does indeed. I can't see why the use of this stuff is not pervasive in this industry -- it has got to lower long term costs. I don't sign most of my posts because I don't have any strong concern about my participation on these lists being forged by miscreants. And most of the stuff that passes for discussion on lists isn't very vital stuff. Password harvester emails seem to be a problem. There's a cure in process. Scripts to overload their sites. So it is in everyones' best interest to come up with a SIMPLE way to fix it that "customers" can actually learn. I don't see how posts to discussion lists are in any way related. Also, customers can and do learn to use PGP. I have never had a customer fail. As a company status area, storage would be trivial compared to code. Would you write the code for us too?! You rock! - word of mouth, link on trusted site GDCA, eCMA, Gold-pages and others are addressing these solutions. - good history of completed transactions, good history of solved complaints Nothing succeeds like success. - "5 party" separation model, or similar Active (costs money or time from customer) I think Ian Grigg's five party model is well planned, and planning costs surprisingly little. - contracts Contracts are only as good as the contractors. - insurance Only as good as the insurers. - ability to damage reputation Widespread. - suing Only as good as the courts. Just as quibbles: - Consider not using frames in the next redesign. Works for me. I never use frames. Hate 'em. But, I'm not the web designer. I'll pass along the thought, though. Consider putting the "Top 5 Exchange Providers" in list form on the home page with a "more..." link. Same with the the other lists. Works for me. Off to the web designer. Once I left the home page, I could not easily get back. (Safari browser) Excellent point. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] digital signatures
Dear Jeff, It would be even easier to just post a PGP public key and sign all the e-mails I care about validating. Then instead of archiving a huge volume of mail, I'd just let you verify the signature on any e-mail message you care about. Or, the GCDA / eCMA could have an area that does the same thing. I really appreciate your suggestion here. I'm sure the GDCA (Global Digital Currencies Association) would be delighted to receive your donation of storage space for the job. If listing cambios, you could have approximate amount of sales, years in business, privacy policy, etc. I think Gold-Pages.net already offers some of these things, though I don't agree with everything they have to say about my exchange service. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: FWIW
Dear JP, http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html that was a "hammer" day, signifying a change in direction coming :O That's nice. Which direction? Do you think the $366.50 or so bottom reached intra-day represents significant support? Whatever happened to "It's All in the Charts" anyway? Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Internet Fraud (fwd)
Dear Jim Ray, everything if you transfer $2000 to e-gold account # 1050218 I think Mark's report is at least an instance of spam abuse, possibly by this account holder. Regards, Jim http://www.gdcaonline.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: microcommerce
Dear Steve, Why buy the cow when you can the milk for free? I've never really liked canned milk. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] issue power of money
Dear Gordon, Since when does the government issue paper money? According to the USA constitution, they cannot. No state shall make anything but gold or silver a tender in payment of debt, according to Article 1, Section 10, and there is a specific prohibition against the national government doing anything that has not been specifically delegated to it (amendment 10), reserving such power to the states, or where the states are prohibited, to the people. I thought it was the federal reserve in this case? The Federal Reserve takes responsibility for the issue power of money, but it does so under authority delegated to it by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. I think this act is unconstitutional, but that's another matter. The Federal Reserve has the power to print money from Congress. So, it is a governmental power. It is this government issue power of money which Friedrich Hayek found objectionable in his book _The Denationalization of Money_ published 1976, and which EC Riegel found horrifying in his books _A New Approach to Freedom_ and _Flight from Inflation_, 1946 and 1952 respectively as I recall. I think Riegel's books are available for gold from GoldBarterHoldings.com. For a review of the many constitutional issues relating to a central bank for the United States, I recommend you Google for Andrew Jackson's veto message regarding the renewal of the Second Bank of the United States. It is one of the most well-written documents, assembling as it does all the arguments against fiat money, against foreign ownership of the banking cartel, and identifying the constitutional limits not only of Congressional power, but also the obligation to enforce these limits which all branches of government are supposed to uphold. Even so, I think the framers of the constitution were mistaken in vesting any power over coining money or involving money in any branch of government. There is plenty of evidence, and there was then, that governments are irresponsible about issuing money, and that the free market has always provided plentiful money whenever called upon to do so. Happily, I don't expect the USA to last much longer. Sic semper tyrannis. Deo vindice. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Jim your comments on the debit card list I just published
Dear Mark, I'm sure we are all happy to hear your opinions both good and bad. I'm sure that posting my opinions here is something I do from time to time. Have I checked out http://freeluna.dreambuildersystems.com/ #1, their site has ZERO links going to it, Actually, that particular URL is my site. I have not yet added it to the mall at EzEz.com. The "freeluna" part helps track web traffic I generate. ZERO popularity, not one, I would never send my hard earned cash to a web with no other links going to it. Why is that such an important issue? But please excuse me because that is obviously a sub. It is my subdomain. So checked dreambuildersystems.com a total of 10 WOW Okay. and established almost one year ago. Sure. Well it may sound good to you, I actually know and have met personally the proprietors of the company. So, I know who is involved, and therefore have a basis of trust. I also have performed about $50K in exchanges with these guys, who are very honorable. IMHO e-fidex is excellent along with e-bullion. Have both cards and they work very smooth. I have both these cards, and agree with you. No offense JD if it works for you God bless, but to me it seem like an MLM with a "membership" charge of several hundred dollars. Dream Builder Systems does market the cybersecurity.com software products through a multi-level marketing system. I believe there are membership levels which cost less than the fee you indicate. Did you include your affiliate ID "freeluna" and have half a brain, I do have a brain. I don't have half to spare, though, if you are soliciting. you will see that the ones BELOW the "avoid" comment are to be avoided. That was not clear to me, so you might wish to revisit your approach to conveying that idea. Patronizing comments about whether one has half a brain don't improve the readability of your text. The key element in using words like "this" and "these" is to include an antecedent. E.g., "these below" would have been extremely clear. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Debit Cards
Dear Mark, I have looked at like over 100 different cards Have you looked at the cards from http://freeluna.dreambuildersystems.com/ yet? http://www.goldnow.st/debit_card_buy.asp I have had bad experiences with GoldNow. I would not use their card. CambistStored Value VISA card (one time load only) http://cambist.net/svcards.cgi Various people have complained of lack of timely arrival of these cards. http://www.cashcards.net/ A very great many people have complained of various problems with Cash Cards. I would be pleased to see them get back on their feet, though. http://www.crowne-gold.com/ Several close associates have complained of difficulties with crowne-gold. I recall Cambist stopped offering to exchange this currency. http://www.e-bullion.com/ I've had excellent results with these folks, and own one of their cards. http://www.e-fidex.com/ I've had excellent results with these guys, too, and own one of their cards. https://intgold.com/m/debit.cgi/22347 I'm rather suspicious of INTgold. http://www.londongoldexchange.com/ Andy Heron has always been an honorable exchanger in my view. I think this site is his? He's in your avoid category, I'm not sure why? I've also come across a GoldtoCard.com site which seems very spiffy. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Economic Incentives
Dear Patrick, The economic incentives to build roads abound! Every subdivision in Houston, Texas was built by private real estate developers. In each case, the streets were built by the property owner. In each case, under Texas law, the property association for the new subdivision was responsible for the upkeep of the streets, storm sewers, street signs, and street lights for one year. Then the city took over maintenance. I've actually been involved in building streets in Friendswood, Texas. There is no magic or mystery to it. Streets get built where people want them to be, since they won't buy houses if they cannot get to their house by car. Obviously if the homeowner association can be responsible for the upkeep of the streets for one year, they can do the job for as many years as the street exists. Free your mind! A consummation devoutly to be wished. (Shakespeare) Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The new US $20s
Dear Chuck, They seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to make these ones, must be more costly So I guess this means the cost of money has gone up in the USA. The cost per unit is certainly a little higher, but it doesn't cost very much to print each Federal Reserve Note. You can go to the Federal Reserve's web site to get some idea on what it costs. The function of the new $20 bill is to make it harder to counterfeit. Counterfeit is a cost to those who mistakenly accept counterfeit notes. So, the cost of money is not the only issue at stake. Of course, in my view, the whole paper money thing is counterfeit from the word go. Having government issue money has proven to be a mistake, and the Federal Reserve System is certainly a costly boondoggle. Free market money is better. Regards, Jim http://freeluna.dreambuildersystems.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Need reloadable Prepaid visa/Mastercard
Dear Friends, There are a number of reloadable pre-paid Visa or MasterCard debit cards on offer. You might like to try the card offered through Dream Builder Systems. http://freeluna.dreambuildersystems.com/ It is also possible to order a USA mailing address from me and use that with the MasterCard offer. Details on the DBS card excerpted below. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ The Dream Builder Systems™ We are proud to present a MasterCard Debit Card & International Debit Card Exclusively for DBS Members Having one of these cards is like having a bank account in your pocket or purse. Plus, it gives you unlimited freedom and control of your money. Features & Benefits: * Your DBS Commissions can be paid directly to your Debit Card. * MasterCard Debit Card — Make purchases at over 21 million retail and online merchants. This loadable card works everywhere MasterCard is accepted, and can be used as one would use a credit card. * International Debit Card — In many countries, this card can be used with the same convenience as a credit card. Functionality: * Instant ATM Cash withdrawals You can withdraw cash from over 835,000 ATMs in over 120 countries 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. * Transfer Funds Worldwide: Use your account to transfer funds to, and receive payments from other DBS cardholders anywhere in the world, securely 24 hours a day. This feature greatly reduces the expense of money orders and wire transfers. Additional Benefits: * Family Members: Order additional cards for your spouse or children (must be 18 or older). Parents: Feel the joy of offering your kids one of the Debit Cards which enables you to transfer money directly from your account to their card. It’s a great way to assist them in getting the cash they need, when they are away at school. * Tremendous Value: In keeping with our goal of offering the best products at a tremendous value to our DBS Members, we are offering these cards at a fraction of the cost that other companies charge for similar (or inferior) stored value cards. Other companies charge $45 to $60 (plus shipping) for these types of cards. Exclusive DBS Member’s Price: $15 per card (includes shipping, worldwide) Note: The MasterCard Debit Card may only be shipped to a U.S. address. If you do not have a U.S. shipping address, order only the International Debit Card. The International Debit Card may be shipped to any of the 200 countries where these cards are functional. New DBS Members: If you have enrolled since June1, 2003 and purchased the $195. product package, or the $295 product package, your purchase includes your Debit Card and it will automatically be sent to you. If you wish to order additional cards click on the Order Now button below. * Please allow 10 to 12 days for shipping within the U.S. and 14 to 18 days for other countries. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] taxes are not about money; e-bullion; central planning of money
Dear Khurram, Unfortunately, I'm not permitted to respond on your very interesting ideas about how roads aren't built by the private sector, etc., because taxes are not about money. It seems odd, since people pay taxes with money, and since fiscal policy can be very inflationary if it is organized for deficit spending. But, taxes are the opposite of money, it has been decreed, and we are to respect the list owner's views. Or, you know, go post on [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, on the subject of money, I wanted to point out that e-bullion.com seems to have re-vamped their web site. Very nice look, pretty easy to navigate, I like it. http://www.e-bullion.com/ A viable alternative to taxes I suggest is: keep your own money. Really. The absence of taxes must involve money, if taxes are the opposite of money. So, that's my suggestion. With respect to central planning, let's take a look at the central planning of money. If that's been working really well, then maybe the central planning of roads would work out okay. Has it? Well? How much has the dollar inflated since 1971? By some accounting I've seen, around 90% of the value of a dollar has eroded in that time. Others say about 60% to 75%. Is that a good thing? Thirty-two years and you lose three-quarters of your wealth to inflation? Democracy is certainly not about money, is it? I mean, it isn't like people with more money get better results from their representatives in Congress, do they? If so, then the tobacco industry must not be wearing really shocked expressions, I guess. Last I looked, the USA was not a deed restricted community. But, maybe you'd like to kick out anyone who doesn't like taxes. That's nice. Apparently, the e-gold list is a deed-restricted community, so that is it for taxes. One further thought on money: if the value of the public services everyone receives is greater than the amount of taxes everyone pays, then where does the remainder come from? Is there a magic source of money for government that doesn't involve taxes, inflationary deficit spending, or taxing future generations? Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The new US $20s
Dear David, Presuming that this circulation more-or-less reflects a reasonable statistical sample of the general population, they're still quite rare. Hi, David. Good to see you posting here. It would be a mistake to make the presumption you state. Any survey which suffers as badly as this one does from self-selection error cannot be considered statistically relevant. In order to be useful, the data has to be gathered from a random and representative sample of the population. It cannot be gathered only by those who are willing to volunteer their data, since that group is necessarily not random. It is also very unlikely to be representative of the population as a whole. A great many online polls suffer from this difficulty. It is worse than a waste of time to respond to online polls, since it encourages incredibly stupid ideas like voting as a way of taking choices. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] fuel taxes
Dear Patrick, Petrol taxes are closer to user fees than any other tax. The more miles you drive, the more you pay for roads. So of all the despised and dreaded taxes, petrol taxes are my favorite. Well, as long as you properly classify them as despicable and dreaded, let's talk about them. Fuel taxes do not operate the way you say they do. Those who are able to afford newer and more fuel efficient cars will consume less fuel, even for more miles driven. New Zealand's government recently faced up to this issue, according to a newsstory I read. It is an interesting conflict of interests - do they outlaw fuel efficient vehicles so they can continue to generate revenues from fuel taxes, and therefore harm the environment, or do they let people use the incentive of lower fuel costs to move them toward more fuel efficient cars, but thereby subvert the funding for the highways. Nevertheless, I still don't think even petrol taxes are necessary. Of course they are not necessary. doing away with the need for a government-financed interstate highway system. No such need exists. Indeed, a great many more people would fly were it not for the subsidies that the roads get. Gee, I wrote about that years ago: http://webleyweb.com/tle/le960102.html http://101468-USD1.e-gold.com/ As far as I can tell, taxes are a terribly inefficient and morally objectionable blunt instrument for getting things done. Yes, they are. And they are the tool of choice for socialists and other vile thugs. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] no taxes
George: I guess if there would be no US government (no tax = no administration) you would take a shotgun and shoot cubans if they would try to invade USA, right? ;) I would not shoot all Cubans who seek to enter the USA, since a great many Cubans do so peacefully, wishing only to escape the brutal totalitarianism of the vicious dictatorship there. Cubans are presently turned away by the USA Coast Guard and other military units when they try to enter US waters, condemning them to a life of suffering back in Cuba. The USA policies toward Cuba have long been bizarre. Trade and commerce would sweep away the last vestiges of communism, but remain forbidden by the socialists in DC. As for the private production of defense services in a no taxes economy, this matter has been thoroughly treated by Dr. Guido Huelsmann of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. Instead of winking broadly and pretending to be clever, George, you should take a good hard look at why you want a vicious, fascist military force to exist, why you support theft to pay for the military, why you support the military draft, why you think militarism is the only way to run the world. I might not shoot every Cuban I see, but I'm very sure that you on my property represents an excellent reason to do some target practice. Shotguns are quite effective for certain situations, but on the whole I prefer a battle rifle. Talk about socialists knowing better than capitalists :) Are you saying that the conservative parties in New Zealand and Australia are socialists? If they are anything like the Republicans here in Texas, that would be true. Socialists are vile thieves. They pretend that their theft is justified because they want to help others, often the poor. Yet it is the poor who suffer worst because of the theft of property. At this time, do they have higher taxes than USA (say 40% or more)? In addition to being an apparently enthusiastic socialist, you don't seem to spend much time looking up information you seek. Why not Google for the answers instead of expecting others to provide information at your whim? Free yourself, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Income tax
Dear George, I think that is true, but only if there *is* inflation. So, when Danny said 10% inflation, I believe he was thinking about it in a system where there is no income tax (he said he prefers such a system). Naturally, I don't prefer such a system. I think the idea of preferring one type of theft to another is mistaken. It is a bit like saying that one would rather one's virgin daughter be gang-raped by Yale graduates rather than Bronx high school drop outs. Some might say that the gruesome imagery just evoked is provocative and wrong. I think a tax of 10%, be it inflation or income tax, is provocative and wrong, and far more gruesome in its consequences. they are doing well since it was introduced. That's nice. It is always somewhat refreshing when the thieves take less. I think the Reagan tax cut was a nice thing, compared to the earlier rates. As you point out, the average american pays 50% taxes. I think Americans pay a lot of taxes. I'm not sure it is 50% on average. Not that it matters. Theft is still theft, even if it is a tenth of a percent. Do you think that a system with no inflation and with a flat 5 - 10% income tax (for everybody, person or company) is also theft? Yes, of course. Let's take that in two pieces. First, a system with no inflation. I don't know of any such system. Over the thousands of years that gold has been money, about 2% more gold has been brought up from mines and put into circulation, on average every year. More money chasing comparable goods and services would be inflationary. I do think that population growth and productivity enhancements are deflationary - placing more goods and services into the market. I question whether the two forces would ever be perfectly in balance. And, I am unconcerned. Separating the issue power of money from government is a good thing. Free market money may include some inflation, some deflation, and other effects. It would be better than fiat money. A flat tax is still theft. The argument that it is better because everyone pays it is silly. Everyone does not pay it. Productive people pay it. Those who are not productive don't. Those without income don't. And there is nothing about a tax paid by everyone which excludes it from theft. Taxation is theft. A truly flat tax would be a flat fee. A percentage of income is a "progressive" tax. It means that more total taxes are paid by the most productive, and less total taxes are paid by the least productive. Such an arrangement penalizes the productive for their ability to produce wealth. Inevitably, it rewards those who are less productive or unable to produce, because these types are the ones who go into government work, or are paid by the government to remain indigent. To understand what is meant by a progressive tax, you should look up the history of the progressive movement. Income tax was their idea. It was a bad idea. I have in mind that there is no other type of tax, like: VAT, property tax, welth tax... whatever. I think it is good to envision a system where all these other taxes are gone. I'm pleased that you see some value in thinking of a system where most taxes are gone. Now take the next logical step. If that system is best which taxes least, the inevitable conclusion is: that system is best which taxes not at all. Obviously, I am thinking that the income tax is used for what the country needs But, again, that's silly. Why steal from people to provide them what they need? Why not let people keep their own money and provide for their own needs? Who produces these needful things if there are taxes? Individuals produce needful things. Companies and enterprises produce needful things. What if there were no taxes? Would all needful things cease to be produced? Of course not. Take "public transportation" for an example. Who builds the highways? Private contractors paid with tax dollars, generally by a corrupt contract allocation process. Are they suddenly unable to build highways when the government has no tax dollars? On the contrary, they build more and better roads when they are doing so in the free market. What about "light rail" and bus systems? Wouldn't these disappear in a free market? Maybe they would. Perhaps mass transit systems aren't worth having, and shouldn't be subsidized at great expense. Yet, we see that jitney vans operate in most major cities, without taxi licenses and without tax subsidies in many cases. People do organize their affairs to provide transportation to those without cars because their is money to be made doing so. (even if you would say you or anyone else don't know what the country needs). Actually, I would say that everyone knows what the country needs. The country needs to eliminate all forms of theft, all forms of slavery, all forms of initiatory force. These are obvious needs. Taxation is a form of theft, it is tantamount to slavery, and it is always enforced with initiatory force. What you may be think
[e-gold-list] War for Southern Independence
Dear Steve, This limitations of taxation is what kept the U.S. federal government relatively in check prior to the Civil War. Comparatively in check, and it wasn't a very civil war. Warfare never is. It was in fact the War for Southern Independence and is officially, now, the "War Between the States" though for many decades it was officially the "War of the Rebellion." However, I think it is important to understand that the comparison isn't one which favors the federalist system. Yes, we are certainly much worse off now that the central government is more obviously unlimited in its scope, power, and ambitions. But, the Southerners had a point - the federal government was out of control then. Keep in mind that these Southerners were men who very much identified with guys like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. They did not throw down their national government for "light or transient reasons." They set up a new government with a constitution very nearly identical to the one which had gone before, with the addition of term limits and a line item veto. Yes, of course slavery was a part of the constitution of the Confederacy, but as we all know it was also deeply embedded in the constitution of the USA prior to 1865. Indeed, the comparison is so close that Sam Houston, then governor of Texas, on learning of the decision to send a delegation to the Confederate States convention in Montgomery, Alabama in 1861, asked "Why leave one ill-formed Union only to join another?" The unchecked growth of the U.S. federal government didn't really get underway until the Civil War Again, I would say that the writing was so much on the wall by 1860 that you would find anyone who felt very strongly about limited government pressuring his state to utilize its sovereign power to secede. Otherwise South Carolina, Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, various tribes in Oklahoma, and the Republic of Arizona would not have done so. There was a war to settle the matter of whether the US national government would be limited by its constitution. The side for unchecked power won. The losing side wasn't satisfied with that decision, and guys like Nathan Bedford Forrest led a very clever campaign of resistance right up until the Posse Commitatus Act and other limitations on federal power were put in place. Yes, certainly those didn't last. But it does suggest that people determined to be free can make some headway on the matter. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Free Luna!
Dear Patrick, Right, ownership of wild unclaimed territory must be based on staking a physical claim -- actually going there and setting up fences so to speak. Other than that it's just people talking. You've got to have some physical boundaries and preferably a way to enforce those boundaries. These are good ideas. Certainly, anyone wanting to claim territory on another planet or asteroid should expect to face challenges from those who actually go there. There are actually a large number of land cases in which absentee landlords were challenged by what amounted to squatters. Very often, the squatters would win on the basis that they were occupying the land, improving it, making something of value of it. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work, Jim? It is entirely without precedent in written human history. The nearest thing we can look at which may have been similar was the expeditions by Asiatic tribal peoples across the land bridge where the Bering Sea is now located, into what was then unoccupied North and South America some 16,000 years ago. Apparently, there were no humans whatever on those two continents at the time. All the other "way it's supposed to work" stuff we have at hand is about governments sending out various expeditionary forces to "plant flags and footprints" in new territories. These explorers would stake a claim, then the sovereign back in the mother country would press the claim, charter colonies, etc. Believe it or not, the Johnson administration in the USA worked very hard to *abandon* territorial sovereignty over "celestial bodies" in the Outer Space Treaty of 1967. The negotiating team LBJ sent was working as hard as they could to get everyone to agree that no nation would have territorial claims in space. Why? They wanted to end the "Moon Race" and reduce their obligations from (a) fighting the Vietnam war, (b) fighting the war on poverty, and (c) winning the Moon Race to just (a) and (b) above. So, on the downside, there is no national sovereignty over any of these outer space territories. Some amazing number of countries have signed up to the Outer Space Treaty. It isn't practical to find a space-faring nation which isn't party to it. It would be easier to create such a country from whole cloth. On the upside, there is no national sovereignty over any of these outer space territories. No nation may claim them as their own. Which means that Dennis Hope's claim for the Lunar Republic is as good as any other claim. Seriously. It is as worthless as any other claim, too, by the exact same token. Unoccupied land is not really something you could find anywhere on Earth from about 9,000 years ago, until the discovery of Antarctica. And that entire continent was divided up amongst the first eight nations to send expeditions there, in very short order. Those territorial claims were put into a sort of suspended animation, or we might say, "frozen" to make the obvious pun, in 1957 with the Antarctic Treaty. Various things like the discovery of coal and natural gas in Antarctica have been proposed as reasons for undoing the treaty, or not renewing it, or renewing it with very different terms. That's the other interesting thing about the Outer Space Treaty. It comes up for renewal every thirty years or so. So the absence of territorial claims in space may be a temporary thing. With nation states claiming territory, they could in theory provide legitimacy to land claims by individuals and companies. However, this idea pre-supposes a nonesuch - a nation state that is interested in private property ownership. That whole concept is very much out of fashion among the nationalists and statists, as you know. Free Luna! The motto of the revolution in Heinlein's classic _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_. One of my favorites. For no particular reason, I chose it for my Dream Builder site: http://freeluna.dreambuildersystems.com/ (These guys take e-gold!) Regards, Jim http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/icon/ ^URL has some essays on property, frontiers, etc. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] property on the Moon
Dear Robert, At least he has a claim in accordance with the Terra (Luna?) Nullis rules used to establish ownership of otherwise unclaimed and uninhabited land. I'm not familiar with this "terra nullis" (nullus?) convention. Maybe you could offer a citation? There are a number of interesting conventions about terra lucrabilis which is land converted out of the ocean or from waste (e.g., swamp or more modernly "wetlands") and terra nova. If the claim would stand in an International tribunal context is questionable. Of course! And the corresponding question: what standing does an internationl tribunal have? Oh, sure on *Earth* it sound impressive that you have an international tribunal or a "world court." But how does that court have jurisdiction off-world? And, the "United Nations" contains a minority of all the nations on Earth. Moreover, it represents the various governments or nation-states, as if they matter. However, it maybe likely that there would be some kind of compensation, should his claims (and those of the people buying from him) be nullified at some point in time. That's an interesting idea, of course. Who would enforce such a compensation ruling against the nullifiers, though? When you really think about the space frontier as terra incognita it gets pretty Wild West. In the end, I'd say that the value of the claims depend on what humanity does with the moon in future. Actually, it also seems to matter quite a bit what humanity has done in the past. The USA and the USSR had quite a little territorial thing going on the Moon's surface in the 1960s - all the way up through the last lunar landings. If they colonize or mine or otherwise exploit it - They? You mean, if any humans do? Or if "humanity" as a Roddenberry collective, "beyond struggle for personal gain" does these things? which would require some sort of ownership arrangements, It is indeed the case that investors in mining do not like messy ownership problems. That's why the "Law of the Sea" killed off most seabed mining efforts. then his claims are likely to be worth something, if one considers the precedents in kolonial history. It could be fun. Of course, there is the issue that on Earth teritories have been claimed on behalf of governments and individuals had been chartered to do so at the time. Well, that turns out to be not entirely true. Antarctica and the "high seas" and the seabed beneath international waters have been set aside as territories not claimed by any nation, at least for the lifetimes of the respective treaties. The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 does away with the concept of nations establishing sovereignty over any celestial body. However, the mere filing of the claim in an American land registry by an individual could even be taken as a base to claim American jurisdiction over the moon - a scary thought. If by "American jurisdiction" you mean the jurisdiction of the American who filed the claim, then tell me why that's scary. If by "American jurisdiction" you mean jurisdiction of the USA feral gummint, then I can only quote the police lieutenant in the opening scene of "The Matrix": "If you're gonna give me any of that juris-my-dick-tion crap, you can blow it out yer @ss!" On the other hand, he did declare independence (uncontested) and proclaimed his own nation state and government. Which exists exactly to the same extent that any other nation state or government exists. Legally, this is likely to be an interesting case to decide on, if it ever comes to that. It would be interesting to see how the fur flies over whom might have jurisdiction. Still, I believe that there are just enough "registered property owners" for the moon, to make enough of an impact to warrant some sort compensation, if not indeed validation, at some point in the future. Could be fun. So, as a long term investment gamble, buying a few acres of the moon certainly beats buying lottery tickets. The odds of winning are better and the bragging rights are priceless :o) I do keep asking Dennis to accept e-gold. Meanwhile, I've written a lengthy though incomplete essay on the subject here: http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/icon/moon.html It is an important issue, and as the map indicates, I think the powers that be were "covering their options" during the planning phases for the various lunar landings. I have not had time to update the map with the crash site for the Lunar Prospector which delivered some of Gene Shoemaker's ashes to the Moon a few years back. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: retailing the Moon
Dear Ian, When he goes there and asserts his claim, Dennis is a pretty determined guy. I think his idea of selling land on the Moon in order to pay for his trips to the Moon is very clever. He also offers to put stuff on the Moon for a fee. He has some other hot business ideas but mum's the word. Does that office derive its powers from a government that does not exist? Of course! That's what makes his claim such a cool thing. He's turned the power of the government toward establishing his land claim. And nobody's contested his doing so, nor denied that he's done it. More on my reply to Robert Z. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] retailing the Moon
Dear Ian, Now, just a minute! purporting to sell one and ten acres lots on the moon! This guy bases his claim on something he lodged with some kind of office in San Francisco that obviously also does not have a right (of ownership) to confer on this fellow. You must be talking about the Lunar Embassy and my old friend Dennis Hope. But, Dennis does own the Moon. He filed his claim with the land office. http://www.lunarembassy.com/ They're even making plans to go there. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: initiatory force vs. retaliatory force
Dear Hannibal, Yet you're fine with this, and refer to the action of protecting one's rightful property from thieves as 'cheating'. Thanks for rising to the call on this one. I've left you a little something in yer tipjar. Go A-Team! Say hi to BA and especially Murdock. What is the Matrix? Thanks for asking. As I've quoted elsewhere: http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/libe223-20030511-09.html "What is the Matrix? "Control. "The Matrix is a computer-generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this. "As long as the Matrix exists the human race will never be free." The above quote comes from the Warner Home Video DVD, "The Matrix" by the Wachowski Brothers. I've transcribed the actual lines as delivered by Laurence Fishburne, though the subtitles available on the DVD are somewhat similar. The average American makes $38,000 per year annual income. This figure is somewhat deceptive, since it includes a large number of non-working persons, and fails to count the incomes of a wide array of non-filing adults, children, and "illegal aliens" among others. Over the course of a forty to fifty year career, the average American will make over $1.5 million in income. The government will obtain up to 38% of the income, and various other governmental systems will take a further 12% of income. Plus, the funds the individual spends on rent, food, transportation, and other incidentals will be taxed as income of others. In other words, the system has found all the money it will ever need. Better still, the currency used in all these exchanges will very likely not be free market money. Instead, it will in most instances prove to be Federal Reserve Notes. This fiat money is allegedly legal tender, though there are no penalties for refusing it. Redeemable for nothing, the Federal Reserve Note is a promise to pay—but only in further Federal Reserve Notes. The system which issues these notes is not a part of the Federal government, it is not a constitutionally authorized entity, and it benefits from monetary inflation to a considerable degree. As Beardsley Ruml pointed out in the 1940s, with the ability to issue currency, the government has no need to tax. It can print as much money as it will ever need. Therefore, in his view, the function of taxes such as the income tax and the inheritance tax, is not to fund the government or provide for constitutionally mandated functions. Instead, the function of these taxes, he wrote in his article for American Affairs magazine, is the redistribution of wealth. From whom? From those capable of producing wealth. To whom? To those unable or unwilling to produce wealth. In other words, the tax system exists to plunder. It loots from the productive to provide salaries for bureau-rats and payments to those unable or unwilling to work. * * * * I submit that there is no government. "The government" is an illusion, sometimes consensual. In fact, there are only individuals. Individuals in "the government" get away with murder, theft, lies, deceit, fraud, violence, viciousness, and betrayal. Were those individuals without governmental sanction, they would be merely bullies, killers, and thieves. They would deserve no greater respect and no swifter punishment. As "the government" however, they are understood to be immune from prosecution, immune from lawsuits, immune from criticism. Even their own treason against the constitution is considered acceptable, whereas it is considered treasonous to accuse them of treason. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Prevent FACE reseller right, HOW?
Dear Robert, If not, then I guess you need to contact their hosting provider to get them shut down. Yes, well, Robert, it seems that cyberica is their domain registry provider. (see below) The hosting provider is presently onlinens.com which is related to "Deep Sleep Technologies," Jake Yusim, 295 Greenwich, Suite 560, NY, NY 10007, 917-578-8222 [EMAIL PROTECTED] according to register.com. I think the connection is kind of nice. Deep Sleep on linens. I do find linen bedsheets to be very restful. But, of course, as domain admin, Cyberica.net *could* modify the domain to point to any hosting provider. Whether your terms of service provide for such behavior is another matter, of course. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ Domain: blue-market.com Registrant (DA1069-IYD-REG) Dom Admin CF Registrar [EMAIL PROTECTED] CyberFrontier RegistryPO Box 1313 Byron Bay, NSW 2481 AU +16.1266856866 Administrative (BG1154-IYD) Brian Grew Blue Market Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 160 St James Rd Port-Louis, Mauritius 100 MU +230.7832355 Billing (BG1154-IYD) Brian Grew Blue Market Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 160 St James Rd Port-Louis, Mauritius 100 MU +230.7832355 Technical (BG1154-IYD) Brian Grew Blue Market Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 160 St James Rd Port-Louis, Mauritius 100 MU +230.7832355 Record created on September 18, 2003 Record last updated on September 20, 2003 Record expires on September 18, 2004 Domain Name Servers: NS7.ONLINENS.COM NS8.ONLINENS.COM --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] $32,000 per ounce
Dear Robert, However, the US alone has flooded the planet with paper, and if anyone was to exchange the paper (and the bank balances) from US currency to gold, then the exchange rate would be a high multiple of today's market price. Yes. This figure is about $32,000 per ounce. If every dollar now in existence in paper or checking account or other form (M3) were converted to gold, using the gold on hand in the US Treasury vaults (audited sometime in the 1950s, I think, so it is anyone's guess what is really there) the redemption could take place at $32K per ounce. At the same time, it would leave the rest of the planet without gold. Huh? How would redeeming all the paper dollars (and electronic dollars) for gold leave the rest of the planet without gold? It would leave the planet without dollars, certainly. But, the gold would immediately go into circulation for exchange purposes. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] must reflect the past
Dear George: Patrick, why is this "redeeming" word so important? I think Robert Ziegler and Patrick have both dealt with redemption. Redemption is important, and distinct from exchange. Or maybe you're saying it is illegal (now) for people to own gold in USA (so, they can't exchange it)?! The event which Patrick was discussing did, in fact, involve outlawing private ownership of gold, yes. It was, in fact, illegal for people to own gold in the USA from 1933 to 1976 or so. It was President Roosevelt's executive order which made it illegal to own gold and President Ford's executive order that undid this action. You should read more Thucydides. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: outside eBay countries
Dear James, People find it convenient to do business on Ebay, because way back at the beginning, the owner of ebay created an efficient and convenient reputation management system, which stored information about people's reputations on his computers. Okay. There is something similar on GoldBarter.com. It is called Honor Remarks. To bypass ebay, requires a reputation management system that is efficient, convenient to use and decentralized, open source reputations, instead of ebay owned reputations. I think what you are describing sounds great. I'd certainly like to see something like that. It might be a project the GDCA would get behind. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Islamic banking
Dear Robert, I guess that means you'd like to outlaw outlawing :o) No, not at all. That would be completely pointless. But as you say yourself, ursury is morally highly questionable. I think it is. I also think it is pointless to legislate morality. And as the increasing absence of moral values, indeed the decay of morality in society continues This continuous decay is referred to by the term decadence. to be replaced by the worship of mammon the almighty buck, Fortunately, the buck isn't all that mighty. It is fairly poor as money goes. At the same time, the "worship of mammon" would include the worship of gold. I fear that even a free market won't stand a chance as long as intoctrinated citizens leave school with maxxed out credit cards on a search for a loan to go to college and university. I think this idea that "a free market won't stand a chance" because the debt system bribes everyone is a bit silly. The free market always survives, even when it goes underground. The brief while of geek worship in the US was indeed only veiled envy of the gazillions they made and CEOs are the demi-gods of the new religion witch bankers and brokers serving as clergy. Witch bankers. Nice one. I think you are confusing popular culture with culture. It doesn't seem to me very likely that you can learn much from popular culture. Possibly you can sense how far morals have decayed. You don't expect that society will be repelled by its own rott, do you? Society, Robert, is not my responsibility. Society is a fiction. It isn't my fiction. I don't really believe in society as such. I believe in individuals, in markets, in God. Society is a weird construct that tries to suppress individual initiative. Very often, once it gets going, it is used to suppress markets. Lately, the society most Americans live in seems to be trying to suppress God. It is a curious thing. I don't wish to reform society, Robert. I don't wish to reform society any more than I wish to reform government. It would be foolish to try to reform either. Neither society nor government are within reach. No tools can be used to address their deficits and repair them. Instead, I think what is called for in a culture war is a new culture. You cannot really fight a culture war unless you have some culture of your own to defend. As for Islamic culture, although there is much of value there, I'm not entirely willing to defend all of it. Too much statism has been added to it. Most individuals are wallowing in their decrepitude. They like the decadent society in which they live. They love watching celebrities, especially when those celebrities act like jackasses toward each other and get caught doing naughty things. They love watching football games, and "barracking" for one team or another. They will vote funds from the public treasury for bread and circuses, and when push comes to shove, they will vote for circuses and not bother with bread. I'm not interested in most people. I'm not concerned about their fate. They have made their beds, and they can lay in them. I'm interested in two things: me and my neighbors. I'm interested in me, because self-interest is rational. I'm interested in my neighbors because my self-interest is best served by having decent neighbors. Living among thieves and villains doesn't work well. It is more likely that things get real bad before enough voices are heard that are trying to convince people that loneliness and desperation are the results of greed and shortsightedness. See, I'm not one of those voices. Yes, things will get very bad for those who have tried to build their houses upon the sand. The shifting sands of expedience make for a bad foundation, and the winds come, the rains fall, the flood waters rise, the houses fall, and there is much lamentation. But, it does no good to tell people "Hey, you have built your house upon the sand" when they have never seen anyone build a house upon a rock. It makes much more sense to go build a house upon a rock. Then the winds blow, the rains come, the flood waters rise, and the house falls not. And there is great rejoicing. (Matthew 7:24, etc.) Trouble is, once these voices gain enough momentum, the results are likely to be a violent move towards the right. Again, I don't see how that's my problem. I've provided for my own defense. What more am I expected to do? When it is time to kill Nazis, again, plenty of Nazis will be killed. Then you are not far from burning witches and hunting bankers with pitch forks. Civilization isn't ever very far from that stage. It is mostly a veneer, and it isn't a very deep veneer. People express such morality as they feel they can afford, and they often don't feel very wealthy. I don't agree with burning witches. Let he who is without sin cast the first torch. At the same time, hunting bankers might be an interesting sport. Don't be surprised if they shoot back, though. Maybe we should outlaw lawyers... Again, I think that's
[e-gold-list] initiatory force vs. retaliatory force
Dear Danny, You are suggesting that I should be strung up from a lamppost. Indeed. Yet, you have fixated on only the part where you have been strung up from a lamppost, without regard to the reasoning behind your punishment. How is that for advocating use of force against others? There is a difference between initiatory force and retaliatory force. Since your paper money was being imposed on the workers, I felt they should have a trial and examine whether they would be better off with you strung up from a lamppost. Retaliatory force and defensive force are legitimate and justified. When you harm others, you can expect them to defend themselves. When they have the opportunity, you can expect them to retaliate. You were speaking of a hypothetical economy with hypothetical workers. If these were real workers really harmed by your really bad ideas about fiat money, I would expect them to retaliate. I might even cheer them on. Can you quote me where I have said that paper money should be imposed on people? Are you saying that paper money shouldn't be imposed on people? This position seems vastly different from your previous position. Glad to see you coming to your senses. I think advocating the initiation of force, whether it is in the form of taxation or fiat money or debt peonage is a bad thing. I agree. I don't think you know what you are talking about, but it doesn't offend me that you agree. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] free market money
Dear Patrick You have once again done great justice to my views by capturing the essence of them. And finally the curency was made independant from the gold backing. What a sweet, passive, neutral way to portray an act of theft, fraud, and extortion. Indeed. I can say that I find passive voice to be a bit smarmy. "Cool Hand Luke": "What we've got here is failure to communicate." "The boy's mind isn't right!" more trade in hard money and less in fiat tokens. We live in exciting times. Friedrich Hayek first described this idea of denationalizing money in 1976 in his book on the subject. At that very time, the USA was not fixing the price of gold or silver. It took twenty years for e-gold to come out with a product that delivers on the promise of denationalized or free-market money. GoldMoney, e-Bullion, and Pecunix have done similar work in the arena. Yes, these currencies are growing. Yes, they do compete against fiat money. Yes, they do offer better money in the midst of bad money. But, since there is no artificial under pricing of commodities, there is no Gresham's Law (actually, it was Aristophanes who first wrote about this phenomenon) to violate. And, to the best of my ability, I have not been able to find any evidence that a legal tender law is operating right now. We do have an opportunity to use free market money. I think we should. And, I think arguments against free market money and favoring fiat money systems are bad and wrong. I don't mind saying so. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] thugs and the thuggish thugs who are thugs
Dear Patrick, It seems that Jim defines "thug" as an individual who advocates or participates in the initiation of force against others. I think that's a very fair characterization of my position. I think advocating the initiation of force, whether it is in the form of taxation or fiat money or debt peonage is a bad thing. I don't like to be gentle about it. I think actually imposing force, or delegating its imposition by paying taxes for example, is also a bad thing, to be avoided, and to be called for what it really is. Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] outside eBay countries
Dear Julie, Although we can see a genuine demand for those services from people, who would like to sell on the Internet (and ebay) , but do not live in the list of paypal-supported countries. If only there was a way to wade through those orders... I think educated sellers should not prefer to sell on eBay. The things we've said about PayPal are necessarily indictments of eBay since eBay owns PayPal. There are really terrible terms of service at eBay. There is no privacy available from eBay. Any law enforcement agency, or anyone pretending to be such an agency, can get any information about any transaction by simply sending a fax to eBay, as far as I can tell from their published statements. This aspect of the situation is really bad news for anyone selling anything. Instead, I think sellers would be better off using a service like http://goldbarter.com/ for selling. It has better terms of service. It offers realistic privacy policies. It doesn't limit sales of items which eBay prohibits. It doesn't care where you live. And, you can pay for items with e-gold or GoldMoney, perhaps soon some other digital gold currencies like e-Bullion or Pecunix or 1MDC, but these are upgrades for another time. Then there's freetraders.org which is a nice outfit and has done quite a bit more publicity. Again, you can offer stuff for sale and get good results. I think it is a mistake to use PayPal or c2it or these other services that have bungled the whole exchange business. Gold is the real deal. And I think it is a mistake to use or accept credit cards. Yes, it is alluring to the seller - he gets 300 million credit card holders worldwide interested in buying his stuff. But the costs are terrible. Go look at the e-gold.com comparison of credit cards to e-gold. In the end, it requires a lot of people to be more educated. Education takes time. Word of mouth is the very best form of advertising, but it isn't as fast as television or radio. Online gold is really a revolutionary thing. It is amazingly powerful stuff. It represents a direct challenge to government-issued paper fiat money. It represents a challenge to the credit card companies. It represents a challenge to the banking industry. Yes, PayPal has a large market share. Yes, credit cards have a large installed user base. But, the same can be said of Microsoft Windows, and we've seen the problems of Windows time and again, just as we've seen the problems of PayPal time and again, and the problems of credit cards. When e-gold issued those bumper stickers and T-shirts identifying itself as "better money" they were correct. Better money is available. In my view, PayPal is nuts. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Islamic banking
Dear Robert, The reason I'd like to outlaw interest is simply to give everyone the chance to start with a clean slate again, rather than having kids pay for their parents' follies in decades to come. That's precisely why I'm against outlawing things. I don't think it is nice to organize an externally imposed government and impose, by force, things which I think are moral. It is counterproductive, unlikely to succeed, and has huge deficits in the morality department. Inevitably, attempts to outlaw things create worse problems than they are trying to cure. And, as you note, the banking cartel has befriended big government wherever the two are found, and has perverted it to the purpose of protecting usury rather than regulating or preventing it. The admonitions against usury are not only found in Islam. They are also found in the foundation works of Judaism and of Christianity. Usury is wrong, but so is a Spanish Inquisition to prevent it. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
Dear Robert, You think about joining some militants in your rage That actually sounds like a very constructive idea! Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
