[e-gold-list] Re: Horse still dead but responds well to IV drip
Colonel Bosco: I'll address you point-by-point without quoting too much. I said it's possible to own a portion of something without specifying exactly which portion. I even gave specific examples (e.g. Microsoft, water, network bandwidth) which nobody has yet refuted. You say no, unless it has a serial number on it and I can clearly identify which is which, I can't own it. You gave dollar bills as an example. All right, I'll use that example. Let's say my wife and I have keys to a safe deposit box. In that box is one $100 bill and one $50 bill. I own half of the money; my wife owns the other half. Questions: 1. Who owns the $100 bill? 2. Who owns the $50 bill? Answers: 1. Nobody. 2. Nobody. The fact is, I own $75 and my wife owns $75. We each have a 50% undifferentiated share of the the two bills in the safe deposit box. Neither of us owns either bill entirely. OK, now on to your gold example. I.E. YOU HAVE A VAULT WITH A BUNCH OF BARS OR DOLLARS IN STORAGE,, AND LET'S SAY 1/2 ARE DISCOVERED AS FAKES, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PROVE WHO THE REAL BARS OR DOLLARS BELONG TO?? That's a damn good question. If you catch the fake and you know who bailed in the bar, you can zero out his account if he still has enough grams in the account. If he has already spent the grams to other people, then those grams he spent are tainted. They get passed around through the system very quickly, and there's no way you can go in and nullify those specific grams of lead in the exact accounts. Even a grid system does not help you here. Once the bad grams diffuse through the system, you aren't going to track down the entire chain of events and subtract from each affected account. NOBODY has yet refuted my example of water rights. I maintain that it is possible to own a portion of a body of water without assigning serial numbers to individual drops. Let's say I own 10,000 gallons of water in a 500,000 gallon reservoir. I don't know exactly which gallons are mine, but I know I own 10,000 of them. (Gee, imagine that.) Now let's say a saboteur dumps a ton of cyanide poison into the reservoir. What then? Simple: we're all screwed. Extreme situations are not good counter-arguments. I can assert that cannabilism is morally wrong, and still acknowledge that an airplane stranded in the Andes is a very interesting case. (Dang Jesuit teachers! + ) YOU REALLY ARE WAY OUT OF LINE ON THIS ONE -- I WOULDN'T TRUST SOMEONE WITH YOUR OPINION TO SAFEGUARD ONE GRAM OF MY GOLD. What an amazing thing to say! You are attacking my personal integrity because I disagree with you. You are saying that I am a potential thief because I believe it's possible for two people to own an equal share of a $100 bill and a $50 bill. Wow! If I am WAY out of line, it should be easy for you to refute a few of my examples and abstain from personal attacks. THAT'S CORRECT -- WITHOUT PROOF OF CLEAR TITLE (100% OWNERSHIP) YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT A CLAIM AGAINST AN ASSET. Nothing but a claim? A valid claim is everything! If I have a valid claim on 1000 shares of Microsoft, I own them. Moreover, the shares do NOT have serial numbers -- most of the time they're not even printed certificates. Besides, you don't think the floor traders in New York sit there and fiddle around with who owns exactly WHICH shares, do you? My thanks to Dale Pond for the dictionary citations for claim. May everyone listening be blessed with Life, Love, and Laughter. Regards, Patrick Chkoreff \nat:mul=(\x\y x [] \bx\nx y [] \by\ny bx (by [T|nat:add nx (nat:mul ny x)] [F|nat:mul ny x]) (by [F|nat:mul nx y] [F,F|nat:mul nx ny]) ) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Horse still dead but responds well to IV drip
You are referencing Joint_Property (bad example).. If your wife AND you have a $100 bill in your safe you BOTH have claim to the asset -- you have claim to $50 and she to $50.. Now, you could change the $100 bill for Two $50's and settle the matter --- OR you could cut the bill in 1/2 and each possess One half of the bill. Now,, you might say that would be stupid, however, since the bill has SERIAL NUMBERS the two halves could be taped together at a later date and still be cashed at a bank for 100 -- one dollar bills. IF THE TWO HALVES did not have MATCHING SERIAL NUMBERS then they would be worthless. LET'S TURN THIS EXAMPLE AROUND A BIT -- let's use the same dollar in your safe as the subject. Now,, let's say you neighbor breaks into YOUR safe and steals that $100 bill?? You file a report and the Police happen to catch your neighbor with a whole bunch of $100 bills. Now,, how are you going to prove WHICH $100 BILL (IF ANY) confiscated by the Police belongs to you?? Well,, if you were smart enough to RECORD THE SERIAL NUMBER TO THE BILL (that was in your possession) then it becomes a simple matter of matching your bill number to the bills which are held by the Police. WITHOUT the serial number you can't prove that YOU OWN THAT $100 BILL... On to other examples... Your shares of Microsoft,, guess what? Corporate Shares have SERIAL NUMBERS. When you bought your shares of Microsoft, UNLESS YOU SPECIFIED PHYSICAL DELIVERY OF YOUR SHARES FROM YOUR STOCK BROKER, YOU ACTUALLY OWN A CLAIM TO A POOL OF MICROSOFT SHARES THAT YOUR BROKER OWNS AND CREDITS TO YOUR BROKERAGE ACCT. You may THINK you own the actual shares --- but unless you have them delivered and REGISTERED to you,, then you only own a CLAIM to MSFT shares in the possession of (and owned by)your broker. QUOTE: Even a grid system does not help you here. Once the bad grams diffuse through the system, you aren't going to track down the entire chain of events and subtract from each affected account. ENDQUOTE Now you are finally seeing the light. You are EXACTLY RIGHT The system DOES NOT EXIST, HASN'T BEEN BUILT, AND ISN'T IN PLACE, that complies with the GM patent. Have you read the patent (I Have)? Patent's are very specific,, and frankly, the system(s)that the Patent(s) describe(s) DOES (DO) NOT EXIST AT THIS TIME IN SPACE PERIOD... QUOTE: That's a damn good question. If you catch the fake and you know who bailed in the bar, you can zero out his account if he still has enough grams in the account. If he has already spent the grams to other people, then those grams he spent are tainted. They get passed around through the system very quickly, and there's no way you can go in and nullify those specific grams of lead in the exact accounts. ENDQUOTE Now this is interesting Are you saying that there is RISK IN THE GMN SYSTEM??? Because according to the Patent (and) the ONLY REASON MR. TURK WAS GRANTED A PATENT,, was because He invented a new way to eliminate the risk of payment systems. However, if the system that is described in the Patents EXISTED,, then you could actually easily track down the offending Fake gold -- it would be no different then culling counterfeit dollar bills from the vaults of the FedResrv. So obviously, again on another point, the GMN does not even comply with their own Patent. BOSCO _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Horse still dead but responds well to IV drip
From: Kenneth C. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] The water bank owes you 1,000 liters. But you don't own the water in the tank. You do own the 1,000 liters. That is why the water bank owes it to you. If you didn't own it, they wouldn't owe it to you. Why would they owe you something you don't own? -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Horse still dead but responds well to IV drip
You're missing the point. completely You are comparing apples to oranges here with this ridiculous *water* example. You are comparing unallocated and unsegregated storage to allocated and segregated storage!!! Your water example is UNALLOCATED AND UNSEGREGATED water - you have claim to water COMINGLED WITH WATER OWNED BY OTHERS. If your water bank was segregated and allocated then YOUR WATER would be held seperately from WATER OWNED BY OTHERS. It is physically, and technically possible to allocate AND segregate the water -- however it is not economical to do so at this time because water is plentiful in most places. In the future though, it is possible that water storage will be allocated and segregated should H2O become as rare as Gold. This water rights example doesn't apply.. It doesn't apply to the issue of the Patent and Patent infringement. However it is a another pretty good example of how GMN doesn't comply with the Patent --- as your GGrams are NOT ALLOCATED AND SEGREGATED AND TITLED to the owner of the GG's (as specified in the Patent). They are comingled with GG's owned by others within the GMN network - just like your 1000 liters of water. BOSCO From: Patrick Chkoreff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Kenneth C. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] The water bank owes you 1,000 liters. But you don't own the water in the tank. You do own the 1,000 liters. That is why the water bank owes it to you. If you didn't own it, they wouldn't owe it to you. Why would they owe you something you don't own? -- Patrick _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Horse still dead but responds well to IV drip
From: Colonel Bosco [EMAIL PROTECTED] On to other examples... Your shares of Microsoft,, guess what? Corporate Shares have SERIAL NUMBERS. My broker does not know that I own three specific shares #12038375, #87289738, and #22703611. He only knows that I own three shares. You may THINK you own the actual shares --- but unless you have them delivered and REGISTERED to you,, then you only own a CLAIM to MSFT shares in the possession of (and owned by)your broker. You don't own a claim. You claim to own. QUOTE: Even a grid system does not help you here ... ENDQUOTE Now you are finally seeing the light. You are EXACTLY RIGHT The system DOES NOT EXIST, HASN'T BEEN BUILT, AND ISN'T IN PLACE, that complies with the GM patent. The grid system will never be built because it is pointless. But if you want a grid system, here's one. Every day at midnight, the GoldMoney system devises a random mapping of each physical gold gram (as a cube) to a specific account number, proportional to account balance. The mapping is determined by sampling the random noise at http://random.org. There's your grid system. It works because each gold gram is equivalent. Geoff and James could take the trouble to implement it, but it is pointless. Now I did read the patent a long time ago, and I don't remember the part about individually numbering the gold grams. Would you be so kind as to direct me to the relevant section? QUOTE: That's a damn good question. If you catch the fake and you know who bailed in the bar, you can zero out his account if he still has enough grams in the Now this is interesting Are you saying that there is RISK IN THE GMN SYSTEM??? Yes, there is always risk due to fraud, theft, or asteroid strike. The patent only mentions eliminating payment risk. Once you're paid, you stay paid. That's it. By the way, I haven't been arguing for or against the patent. I've been arguing that you can own 10,000 gallons of water without putting a serial number on each drop. -- Patrick \nat:pow=(\x\y nat:eq0 y [T] (nat:mul x (nat:pow x (nat:dec y --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Horse still dead but responds well to IV drip
My broker does not know that I own three specific shares #12038375, #87289738, and #22703611. He only knows that I own three shares. Wrong. UNLESS you have the shares physically delivered to you, he knows that YOU OWN a claim to three shares which are in the name of the brokerage house. You own three shares out of a pool of MSFT shares in the brokers name and in possession of the broker. If you ordered physical delivery of the shares, then the Broker WOULD register those shares to you and deliver them out of their pool holdings. But if you want a grid system, here's one. I never said that *I* wanted a grid system. Every day at midnight, the GoldMoney system devises a random mapping of each physical gold gram (as a cube) to a specific account number, proportional to account balance. The mapping is determined by sampling the random noise at http://random.org. There is not enough info here to comment on,, Randon sampling is used for many things. There's your grid system. It works because each gold gram is equivalent. That's your opinion -- I haven't seen the details and the web site you referenced is not a GMN site. It would be interesting to see when this supposed system was put in place? After they filed a lawsuit -- or was it built into the code originally? Now I did read the patent a long time ago, and I don't remember the part about individually numbering the gold grams. Would you be so kind as to direct me to the relevant section? I never said the Patent specified this. The serial # example was my way of making a point. BOSCO _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
