Re: [Elecraft] K3S Receiver Spurious

[David Gilbert]

Is your K3S connected to a computer (or some other significant piece of 
electronics), and if so, are they tightly and closely bonded together 
chassis wise?


73,
Dave   AB7E



On 12/3/2023 8:11 PM, Michael Tope wrote:

Hi All,

I noticed when operating the ARRL 160 contest this weekend that my K3S 
has developed a nasty case of what appears to be some sort of LO 
spurious. When tuning across strong signals, I can now hear a 
low-level buzz (like phase noise reciprocal mixing) as I tune off them 
followed by a distinct tone peak 400 Hz off the fundamental frequency 
(as if there is a discrete spurious at that offset from the carrier 
frequency). I had noticed that a few days or weeks ago on one signal 
and dismissed it as being someone with a dirty transmit signal. After 
tuning across a number of strong signals on 160 and seeing the same 
phenomenon, it is clear that the problem is coming from my rig.


I don't know if the problem is showing up on my transmit signal as I 
haven't received any reports that I have a dirty transmit signal. I 
just listened to my carrier on a WebSDR and it sounds clean and I 
don't see any sidebands on the waterfall, so I think it may be 
confined to receive only.


So far I have been troubleshooting this remotely over the internet, so 
I haven't had a chance to twist knobs or look at the hidden menus 
carefully. Any ideas as to what might be causing this? Is there some 
problem common to the K3S that manifests itself like this?


Thanks & 73,

Mike W4EF...

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[Elecraft] Elecraft 80M SSB Net Report

[Dave New, N8SBE]

3806 kHz (We met on 3810 kHz due to another couple of nets on 3803 and 
3807), 9PM ET Sunday (0200Z Monday).


Thanks to the following check ins (w) and relays (rel):

   Call   State Radio/Amp   Name
1  N8SBE  MIK4D/KPA500  Dave (w),(op)
2  WB9JNZ ILFTdx101d/KPA1500Eric (rel),(w)
3  W8KEN  OHK4D/KPA1500 Ken (w)
4  W9PCS  WIK4D/KPA500  Paul (w)
5  WS8B   OHIC-7610 FRANK (w)
6  K8NU   OHK4D/KPA1500 Carl (w)
7  K1NW   RIK4D/KPA500  Brian (w)
8  K1DIH  CTK4D/HL1.5 XKX   Brian (w)
9  KC1LKO NHK4D/RF2KS   Miguel (w)
10 K5WC   ARK4D/Mercury Lux John (w)
11 WW4JF  TNK3s/KPA500  JOHN (w)
12 WN9A   INK4D/KPA1500 Larry (w)
13 KE8REH OHXiegu x6100/XPA125p Bob (w)
14 W8WIL  WVIC-7100/ALS-600 Gene (w)
15 WO9E   INIC-7300 Darren (w)
16 KF4EJS KYTS-590  CHRIS (w)
17 KC1SBH MEFT-891  Taylor (w)
18 KD9YVJ ILIC-761A Ross (w)
19 KB3DOR NCFTDX10  Rob (w)
20 VA2FH  QCK4D/SPE500W Gilbert (w)
21 K1ND   MIK4/KPA500   Jan (rel),(w)
22 KG5S   ARK4D/KPA1500 Drew (w)

We had a total of 22 check ins this week (including the NCS). Most 
signals were good all around, except some of the barefoot stations.  For 
the most part, 80M was in good condition overall.  Many thanks to the 
relay stations for pulling those stations in and making them part of the 
net. Very nice hearing from the new check ins and hope to see all of you 
again.  The net concluded at 9:44 PM ET.


In spite of the recent frequency change, the turnout continues to be 
very encouraging. We ended up on 3810 kHz tonight because there was 
another net on 3807 kHz. I asked if 3810 kHz was clear about 850pm, and 
a station came back and said that there was a group that met there 
starting at 10pm.  I said that we would clear off before 10pm and we did 
secure the net at 944pm.  I did listen to the follow-on net for a while, 
and there was considerable discussion about letting a net use 'their' 
frequency, and one station was complaining that he couldn't police their 
frequency all the time to make sure that it would be free when the group 
wanted to use it.  Seems this group shows up sometime after dinner time 
and talks sometimes until 6am! They also noted that a Flex net came on 
earlier on 3810 kHz, and were told by some other station that the 
frequency was 'in use', so they moved down to 3807 kHz (which of course, 
caused us to move somewhere else).


I've also noted that sometime after the net started that 3803 kHz became 
clear.  I continue to monitor adjacent frequencies to see if we can find 
another one close by that will work better for everyone.  In the 
meantime we will continue to attempt to meet on 3806 kHz.


Hope to see you next week!

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE
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[Elecraft] K3S Receiver Spurious

[Michael Tope]

Hi All,

I noticed when operating the ARRL 160 contest this weekend that my K3S 
has developed a nasty case of what appears to be some sort of LO 
spurious. When tuning across strong signals, I can now hear a low-level 
buzz (like phase noise reciprocal mixing) as I tune off them followed by 
a distinct tone peak 400 Hz off the fundamental frequency (as if there 
is a discrete spurious at that offset from the carrier frequency). I had 
noticed that a few days or weeks ago on one signal and dismissed it as 
being someone with a dirty transmit signal. After tuning across a number 
of strong signals on 160 and seeing the same phenomenon, it is clear 
that the problem is coming from my rig.


I don't know if the problem is showing up on my transmit signal as I 
haven't received any reports that I have a dirty transmit signal. I just 
listened to my carrier on a WebSDR and it sounds clean and I don't see 
any sidebands on the waterfall, so I think it may be confined to receive 
only.


So far I have been troubleshooting this remotely over the internet, so I 
haven't had a chance to twist knobs or look at the hidden menus 
carefully. Any ideas as to what might be causing this? Is there some 
problem common to the K3S that manifests itself like this?


Thanks & 73,

Mike W4EF...

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[Elecraft] In-shack RFI Precautions was: Re: Elecraft Digest, Vol 236, Issue 2

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

For whatever it is worth, I use 1" copper tubing, running down the back 
of my desktop, then connecting by about 8 feet of #8 copper to an 8-foot 
ground stake.  Everything in my shack handling significant power or RF 
is bonded to the tubing.  My house system ground is on the diametrically 
opposite side of the house, over 100 feet, so I have settled for what I 
have, plus *lot* of ferrite on various leads in my shack.  It's quite 
quiet unless my local power company contributes with badly maintained 
power lines, in which case I harass my power company's RFI guy


73, Pete N4ZR

On 12/3/2023 5:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 12/3/2023 9:23 AM, Bob McGraw wrote:
Jim, K9YC, has very strong merits in that each and every piece of 
equipment MUST be bonded to a single common point.   I use the 
station power supply for my single common bonding  point.  I DO NOT 
use an external dedicated ground as it would be 35 ft in length and 
serve as an antenna to pick up noise.  After all, that is 1/4 
wavelength on 40M.


Yes, but that's a VERY oversimplistic description. Study N0AX's ARRL 
book on the topic, to which I contributed, and/or this pdf of slides 
for a talk I've done at Visalia, Pacificon, and to various large clubs.


http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

The VERY short answer is that everything that's connected to the rig 
must be bonded together by short fat copper AT the operating desk. 
That common point must be bonded to every other ground in our home, 
also by the shortest practical fat copper. In the shack, I mostly use 
#10 stranded; outside, I use #6 stranded.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Report

[kevin]

Good Evening,

   Twenty meters was mostly quiet, with mild QSB.  Forty meters was 
more noisy, with moderate QSB.  Weather reports were chilly, to cold, to 
snowy, to rainy, to droughty, to mild and sunny.  I'm trying to arrange 
a rain swap with Iowa; sunny days in December would be nice.



  On 14050.5 kHz at 2300z:

NO8V - John - MI

K6XK - Roy - IA

K0DTJ - Brian - CA

K4JPN - Steve - GA

W8OV - Dave - TX


  On 7047.5 kHz at 0100z:

K0DTJ - Brian - CA

WM5F - Dwight - ID

K6PJV - Dale - CA


Until next week 73,

   Kevin.  KD5ONS




-





"But however close we sometimes seem to that dark and final abyss, let 
no man of peace and freedom despair.  For he does not stand alone."


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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[Jim Brown]

On 12/3/2023 4:20 PM, David Woolley wrote:
small, ferrite toroid. Using a higher frequency allows a less bulky 
transformer.


Yes.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[David Woolley]

Most switch mode supplies have transformers. The weight differences 
reflects the difference between a large mass of laminated iron, and a, 
small, ferrite toroid. Using a higher frequency allows a less bulky 
transformer.


--
David Woolley

On 03/12/2023 04:54, David Gilbert wrote:


The ones I measured just a couple of months ago were way too small and 
light to have a transformer in them, and they were horrible.  In any 
case, I recommend that anyone using a wall wart for other than its 
intended equipment (or any standalone new one) be sure to check it for 
both noise and no load voltage regulation.  It's quick and easy to do 
and could save a lot of headaches.


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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 2M amp

[Tim Tucker]

Yes, of course. Works fine.

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023, 8:37 AM Steve McKee  wrote:

> Hello,
> I’ve have the 2 meter module in my KX3, and am wondering if I can hook a
> small VHF amplifier to it, to increase power output??
> I’m planning on purchasing the KXPA 100 for the HF side….
> Course these are both for in home use, not in the field…QRP in the field…
>
> Thank You, 73’s
>
>
> null
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 236, Issue 2

[Jim Brown]

On 12/3/2023 9:23 AM, Bob McGraw wrote:
Jim, K9YC, has very strong merits in that each and every piece of 
equipment MUST be bonded to a single common point.   I use the station 
power supply for my single common bonding  point.  I DO NOT use an 
external dedicated ground as it would be 35 ft in length and serve as an 
antenna to pick up noise.  After all, that is 1/4 wavelength on 40M.


Yes, but that's a VERY oversimplistic description. Study N0AX's ARRL 
book on the topic, to which I contributed, and/or this pdf of slides for 
a talk I've done at Visalia, Pacificon, and to various large clubs.


http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

The VERY short answer is that everything that's connected to the rig 
must be bonded together by short fat copper AT the operating desk. That 
common point must be bonded to every other ground in our home, also by 
the shortest practical fat copper. In the shack, I mostly use #10 
stranded; outside, I use #6 stranded.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S VFO B doesn't change sub-RX frequency

[Jim Kutsch KY2D]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, that was one of the first things I tried. No joy.

 

73 Jim KY2D

 

 

 

From: Ed Parish  
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2023 12:08
To: Jim Kutsch KY2D 
Cc: Elecraft List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S VFO B doesn't change sub-RX frequency

 

Did you try B.SET and then unlock?

 

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023, 12:06 Jim Kutsch KY2D mailto:jim.kut...@ky2d.com> > wrote:

When the K3S sub-RX is turned on, VFO B does nothing. It's as if it's locked
but unlock doesn't change the situation. Might there be a config setting
that was accidentally changed? I think I've gone through everything and
haven't found a solution. Thank.



73 Jim KY2D



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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[Dave B via Elecraft]

To me, it sounds like that when the ATU is inline (& I presume you let 
it tune to that antenna at some point.  Yes/No?)
The antenna is better matched to the transmission line, so more of the 
on-air "ambient" noise is delivered to the RX.


I get the same here, where 60m is quite noisy anyway.  At times over 
some 10dB difference!  Even more noticeable on 80m and 160m.  Where the 
"bare" antenna (random wire sloper) is naturally even more inefficient.


Do you have a passive/manual ATU you could compare with, using the same 
RX and Antenna?


If it was SMPS noise, I'd expect (in your case) a 60 or 120Hz based buzz 
to be part of that "noise".  But I don't hear that.


73.

Dave G0WBX.



On 03/12/2023 15:52, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Subject: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?


--
Sent from a MicroSoft free zone:
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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[G4GNX]

Then purchase a 12V PSU from a reputable Ham Radio dealer, who is unlikely to 
sell you a noisy one.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 3 Dec 2023, at 19:16, W2HX  wrote:
> 
> ?  I don't have any 12v transceivers. This is the only 12 device I have in 
> the shack.
> Thanks
> Eugene W2HX
> Sent from Nine
> 
> 
> From: Bob McGraw 
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2023 12:11 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?
> 
> Just power it from the transceiver power supply and all will be
> resolved.   There is no point in making life complex.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX

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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[Jack Brindle via Elecraft]

I remember those days. I still have my Heath SB-303 and SB-401 pair, both of 
which run from 117VAC. I didn’t have to get a 12V supply until I started 
upgrading back around 2000.
You might want to invest in a small Astron linear supply (or similar). You will 
slowly start acquiring equipment that runs on 12 - 13.8VDC, so getting one now 
would be a good thing.
What kind of things? I love my Heath HM102, but modern SWR/Power bridge meters 
provide so much better info. This is just one example…

73!
Jack, W6FB


> On Dec 3, 2023, at 1:16 PM, W2HX  wrote:
> 
> ?  I don't have any 12v transceivers. This is the only 12 device I have in 
> the shack.
> Thanks
> Eugene W2HX
> Sent from Nine
> 
> 
> From: Bob McGraw mailto:rmcg...@benlomand.net>>
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2023 12:11 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> Subject: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?
> 
> Just power it from the transceiver power supply and all will be
> resolved.   There is no point in making life complex.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> On 12/3/2023 9:52 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 01:48:45 +
>> From: W2HX
>> To: Michael Carter, Elecraft Reflector Reflector
>>   
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?
>> Message-ID:
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Mike, K8CN wins the cigar!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The issue is the power supply ? I took some spectrum analyzer plots to 7
>>  MHz and you can see what I saw. The set up is spectrum analyzer ->
>> KAT500 -> Dummy Load. First picture are two "max hold" traces
>> superimposed where the problem can be seen.
>> 
>> https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-AC-Power.png
>> 
>> The "lower" trace is what I saw with the kat500 in bypass. The "top"
>> trace is with the kat500 inline (auto or manual).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I then replaced the wall-wart power supply with a 12V battery. And this
>> is what I saw for BOTH bypass and inline. Clearly the problem.
>> 
>> https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-battery.png
>> 
>> using a battery, the noise is about -80 dBm. Using the wall-wart, in some 
>> cases the noise is as high as -60 dBm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My task now is to either leave it on battery or preferably, find a low noise 
>> PS.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for the ideas.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73 Eugene W2HX
>> 
>> Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[W2HX]

?  I don't have any 12v transceivers. This is the only 12 device I have in the 
shack.
Thanks
Eugene W2HX
Sent from Nine


From: Bob McGraw 
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2023 12:11 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

Just power it from the transceiver power supply and all will be
resolved.   There is no point in making life complex.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/3/2023 9:52 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 01:48:45 +
> From: W2HX
> To: Michael Carter, Elecraft Reflector Reflector
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?
> Message-ID:
>
> 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Mike, K8CN wins the cigar!
>
>
>
> The issue is the power supply ? I took some spectrum analyzer plots to 7
>   MHz and you can see what I saw. The set up is spectrum analyzer ->
> KAT500 -> Dummy Load. First picture are two "max hold" traces
> superimposed where the problem can be seen.
>
> https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-AC-Power.png
>
> The "lower" trace is what I saw with the kat500 in bypass. The "top"
> trace is with the kat500 inline (auto or manual).
>
>
>
> I then replaced the wall-wart power supply with a 12V battery. And this
> is what I saw for BOTH bypass and inline. Clearly the problem.
>
> https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-battery.png
>
> using a battery, the noise is about -80 dBm. Using the wall-wart, in some 
> cases the noise is as high as -60 dBm
>
>
>
> My task now is to either leave it on battery or preferably, find a low noise 
> PS.
>
>
>
> Thanks everyone for the ideas.
>
>
>
> 73 Eugene W2HX
>
> Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
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[Elecraft] Elecraft 80M SSB Net Announcement

[Dave New, N8SBE]

Please join us on 3806kHz (NOTE THE NEW FREQUENCY WHICH MOVES US INTO 
THE GENERAL CLASS BAND), 9PM ET Sunday (0200Z Monday). Note that the net 
stays on the same local time, when we switch back and forth to/from 
Daylight time, so the UTC time changes, but not the local time.


Now that we have moved into Standard time and have shorter daylight 
hours, 80M should be stronger now during the winter.


Your net control this week will be Dave, N8SBE.

Hope to see you this evening on the net.

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 236, Issue 2

[Bob McGraw]

There are many very nice, well filtered, well regulated power supplies 
on the market.  I see NO REASON for using anything other than the 
station power supply to power all accessories.    As to plant lights, 
use a separate power supply and not the piece of junk supplied with them.


I have and use two switch mode supplies for all of my station 
equipment.  That encompasses two 100 watt transceivers an a 150 watt VHF 
amp.   From 160M - 2M I have ZERO noise from either or from both of 
these supplies.   Frequently I am running two radios on 2 different 
bands at the same time.


Jim, K9YC, has very strong merits in that each and every piece of 
equipment MUST be bonded to a single common point.   I use the station 
power supply for my single common bonding  point.  I DO NOT use an 
external dedicated ground as it would be 35 ft in length and serve as an 
antenna to pick up noise.  After all, that is 1/4 wavelength on 40M.


As to what's in the neighborhood, that's another issue out of my control.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/3/2023 9:52 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 14
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 05:19:39 +
From: Bill Johnson
To:"j...@audiosystemsgroup.com"  ,
"elecraft@mailman.qth.net"  
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It gets worse with all the new gadgets and LED lighting.  I just
installed new plant lights, LEDs, and the racket from the wall warts is
terrible.  I shut them off when operating, or not interested in lighting
  up the plants.  Terrible view of the noise on K4 graphic display.

Bill
K9YEQ

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[Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[Bob McGraw]

Just power it from the transceiver power supply and all will be 
resolved.   There is no point in making life complex.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/3/2023 9:52 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 01:48:45 +
From: W2HX
To: Michael Carter, Elecraft Reflector Reflector

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Mike, K8CN wins the cigar!



The issue is the power supply ? I took some spectrum analyzer plots to 7
  MHz and you can see what I saw. The set up is spectrum analyzer ->
KAT500 -> Dummy Load. First picture are two "max hold" traces
superimposed where the problem can be seen.

https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-AC-Power.png

The "lower" trace is what I saw with the kat500 in bypass. The "top"
trace is with the kat500 inline (auto or manual).



I then replaced the wall-wart power supply with a 12V battery. And this
is what I saw for BOTH bypass and inline. Clearly the problem.

https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-battery.png

using a battery, the noise is about -80 dBm. Using the wall-wart, in some cases 
the noise is as high as -60 dBm



My task now is to either leave it on battery or preferably, find a low noise PS.



Thanks everyone for the ideas.



73 Eugene W2HX

Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos

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Re: [Elecraft] K3S VFO B doesn't change sub-RX frequency

[Ed Parish]

Did you try B.SET and then unlock?

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023, 12:06 Jim Kutsch KY2D  wrote:

> When the K3S sub-RX is turned on, VFO B does nothing. It's as if it's
> locked
> but unlock doesn't change the situation. Might there be a config setting
> that was accidentally changed? I think I've gone through everything and
> haven't found a solution. Thank.
>
>
>
> 73 Jim KY2D
>
>
>
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[Elecraft] K3S VFO B doesn't change sub-RX frequency

[Jim Kutsch KY2D]

When the K3S sub-RX is turned on, VFO B does nothing. It's as if it's locked
but unlock doesn't change the situation. Might there be a config setting
that was accidentally changed? I think I've gone through everything and
haven't found a solution. Thank.

 

73 Jim KY2D

 

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[Elecraft] KX3 2M amp

[Steve McKee]

Hello,
I’ve have the 2 meter module in my KX3, and am wondering if I can hook a
small VHF amplifier to it, to increase power output??
I’m planning on purchasing the KXPA 100 for the HF side….
Course these are both for in home use, not in the field…QRP in the field…

Thank You, 73’s


null
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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[G4GNX]

Oh purleeez, don’t start a political argument on an Amateur Radio forum, 
especially without changing the subject line.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 3 Dec 2023, at 15:28, Wes  wrote:
> 
> I know you are a fan of government running everything in our lives, but this 
> "small" government is $33+ trillion in debt.
> 
> On 12/2/2023 8:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> 
>> 99.9% of stuff that plugs into the wall has a Switch-mode power supply, most 
>> of which are varying degrees of noisy. They were mandated to save energy 
>> about 20 years ago, but thanks to small government, the FCC has no money to 
>> enforce their Rules that they be quiet. So they aren't.


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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[Wes]

I know you are a fan of government running everything in our lives, but this 
"small" government is $33+ trillion in debt.


On 12/2/2023 8:25 PM, Jim Brown wrote:


99.9% of stuff that plugs into the wall has a Switch-mode power supply, most 
of which are varying degrees of noisy. They were mandated to save energy about 
20 years ago, but thanks to small government, the FCC has no money to enforce 
their Rules that they be quiet. So they aren't.

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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[G4GNX]

FWIW I had this issue with an IC7100/MFJ 1500W tuner.

I was finding sprogs in the 40 metre band and they were changing frequency 
(moving round the band) when I changed the tuning frequency, which I put down 
to different relays being deployed, varying the load.
I replaced the PSU and all returned to normal.

I also have an AOC monitor that chucks noise over several HF bands on my K3S, 
due to an errant PSU. I don’t use it very often and not in the shack any more.

I run my K3S and ancillaries (including the KAT500) from a 60 amp (continuous 
rating) variable voltage SMPSU which is capable of 100 Amps for short periods. 
It’s well built and very quiet. That PSU has been in use for many years with no 
hint of trouble. I also use them on Theatre Organ consoles for the stops. There 
can be upwards of 400 stop magnets requiring 500mA each, usually for <50mS, so 
theoretically 200A could be drawn and on the odd occasion (usually under test) 
that a General Cancel is required for all tabs (stops) those PSUs just take it 
in their stride, and there’s been no QRM noticed on any nearby radio.

SMPSUs are absolutely fine if you choose carefully - the bigger the better. 
Wall warts are just a recipe for trouble. The only ones I use these days were 
supplied by Yaesu, rated at 12V 1A and they’re quiet across all loads I’ve 
presented them with.

Pleased that you’ve cured your issue.

73,
Alan - G4GNX
South Coast UK
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500 / IC-9700




> On 3 Dec 2023, at 01:48, W2HX  wrote:
> 
> Mike, K8CN wins the cigar!
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is the power supply ☹ I took some spectrum analyzer plots to 7 MHz 
> and you can see what I saw. The set up is spectrum analyzer -> KAT500 -> 
> Dummy Load. First picture are two "max hold" traces superimposed where the 
> problem can be seen.
> 
> https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-AC-Power.png
> 
> The "lower" trace is what I saw with the kat500 in bypass. The "top" trace is 
> with the kat500 inline (auto or manual).
> 
> 
> 
> I then replaced the wall-wart power supply with a 12V battery. And this is 
> what I saw for BOTH bypass and inline. Clearly the problem.
> 
> https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-battery.png
> 
> using a battery, the noise is about -80 dBm. Using the wall-wart, in some 
> cases the noise is as high as -60 dBm
> 
> 
> 
> My task now is to either leave it on battery or preferably, find a low noise 
> PS.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for the ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 73 Eugene W2HX
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

[Dave (NK7Z)]

Bill,

At the risk of going a bit off topic from Elecraft here--  I use a power 
distribution block, and run 12 volts to every device I can reach from a 
known good supply.


For the items I can get to with that 12V I go to the local thrift 
stores, and look at the used wall wart power supplies.  I buy the heavy 
ones...


I then test them at home, both loaded and unloaded for voltage and RFI. 
If good I use them, if bad, I recycle them.  Most used PS at the thrift 
stores are cheap, and the heavy ones are usually transformer based, and 
RF quiet..


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 12/2/23 21:19, Bill Johnson wrote:

It gets worse with all the new gadgets and LED lighting.  I just installed new 
plant lights, LEDs, and the racket from the wall warts is terrible.  I shut 
them off when operating, or not interested in lighting up the plants.  Terrible 
view of the noise on K4 graphic display.

Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 8:25 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise from KAT500?

On 12/2/2023 5:48 PM, W2HX wrote:

I then replaced the wall-wart power supply with a 12V battery. And
this is what I saw for BOTH bypass and inline. Clearly the problem.

https://w2hx.com/x/Elecraft/KAT500/Noise-Issue/KAT500-battery.png

using a battery, the noise is about -80 dBm. Using the wall-wart, in
some cases the noise is as high as -60 dBm



My task now is to either leave it on battery or preferably, find a low noise PS.


99.9% of stuff that plugs into the wall has a Switch-mode power supply, most of 
which are varying degrees of noisy. They were mandated to save energy about 20 
years ago, but thanks to small government, the FCC has no money to enforce 
their Rules that they be quiet. So they aren't.

A typical home has several dozen of them, either in the form of wall warts and 
line lumps or built into equipment and appliances. Rather than buying bigger 
and better anything for our station, our time and money is far better spent 
identifying and replacing as many as possible of these nasty noise sources.

There's a tutorial on my website, k9yc.com/publish.htm  about how to find and 
replace them. All of the 12V gear in my shack runs on two big batteries that 
are float charged by re-purposed Thinkpad power supplies using Genasun charge 
regulators. A 100Ah LiFePO4 runs the rigs, a 100Ah Sealed Lead Acid runs the 
rest of the stuff.

73, Jim K9YC

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