Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gary Smith]

No worries Jim, I found out what I needed to know before proceeding, 
thanks for the reply.

Cheers!

73,

Gary, KA1J
> My apologies, Gary -- I misinterpreted your query72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614267.html
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Jim Rodenkirch]

My apologies, Gary -- I misinterpreted your query72 de Jim R. K9JWV



--
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Nr4c]

I already suggested the manual. Ye, download it and read it. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Feb 17, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> Fellows, it was just a simple question I asked here so as to not 
> bother the techs at Elecraft with what may be an arcane question.
> 
> I have the ATU kit and the amp kit in my hands, I'm not sending them 
> back. Why I want an ATU has nothing to do with my question.
> 
> FWIW, I do have resonant antennas; all of them from 160 through 10 
> are resonant. I sometimes take the radio out where I use a random 
> wire. It's difficult to make a random wire resonant when I'm on a 
> trip.
> 
> When you buy an assembled K3S, you do not get an assembly manual with 
> it. I guess I could download the Pdf but do I want to do things in 
> the same order as if I were assembling a K3s kit or when adding two 
> separate but related modules to an assembled K3? I don't know.
> 
> All I asked was; in an already assembled K3s/10, which of the two 
> should I install first. A couple of replies have said I should 
> install the ATU first. That's what I'll do.
> 
> Thanks to all that replied.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> 
>> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
>> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
>> first. 
>> 
>> Yes?
>> 
>> Thanks & 73,
>> 
>> Gary
>> KA1J
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft]

Jim! How does your answer relates to the " Original Poster's " Question???!
73 Milverton / W9MMS



  From: James Bennett <w6...@me.com>
 To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg
   
"Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.”

Well, not everyone has the luxury of enough real estate for a bunch of resonant 
antennas. When one wants to be able to operate multiple HF bands, a multi-band 
antenna (like a doublet), with tuner, works quite well. I, for one, would love 
to have several towers with resonant yagis, quads, etc. But living on a 
standard city lot with CCR/HOA restrictions pretty much sets a limit on what 
sort of antenna(s) can be erected. I use an 88 foot long doublet (skinny wire, 
stealthily hung in the trees) fed with home brew 600 ohm ladder line. It works 
great and I can operate on 60 - 6 meters with it. Without a tuner, that would 
not be possible.

JIm / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Don Wilhelm]

Gary,

It does not really make that much difference - there are no 
inter-dependencies.  The assembly manual tells builders to build up the 
K3S with the LPA first, then do the 5 watt calibration - that has 
already been done for you in your K3S/10 Factory assembly. After that, 
install the KAT3 (if you have it), and then install the KPA3, and then 
do the 50 watt TX Gain Calibration.  That order is not really important 
because there is no direct relationship between the KAT3 and the KPA3.
You might want to check the K3S assembly manual and turn to the parts 
after the 5 watt TX Gain calibration has been done and proceed from 
there.  I say that only so you have a sensible guide to completing your 
assembly with the KPA3 and KAT3.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/17/2016 4:12 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the
100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp
first.

Yes?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gary Smith]

Fellows, it was just a simple question I asked here so as to not 
bother the techs at Elecraft with what may be an arcane question.

I have the ATU kit and the amp kit in my hands, I'm not sending them 
back. Why I want an ATU has nothing to do with my question.

FWIW, I do have resonant antennas; all of them from 160 through 10 
are resonant. I sometimes take the radio out where I use a random 
wire. It's difficult to make a random wire resonant when I'm on a 
trip.

When you buy an assembled K3S, you do not get an assembly manual with 
it. I guess I could download the Pdf but do I want to do things in 
the same order as if I were assembling a K3s kit or when adding two 
separate but related modules to an assembled K3? I don't know.

All I asked was; in an already assembled K3s/10, which of the two 
should I install first. A couple of replies have said I should 
install the ATU first. That's what I'll do.

Thanks to all that replied.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
> first. 
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Thanks & 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[James Bennett]

"Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.”

Well, not everyone has the luxury of enough real estate for a bunch of resonant 
antennas. When one wants to be able to operate multiple HF bands, a multi-band 
antenna (like a doublet), with tuner, works quite well. I, for one, would love 
to have several towers with resonant yagis, quads, etc. But living on a 
standard city lot with CCR/HOA restrictions pretty much sets a limit on what 
sort of antenna(s) can be erected. I use an 88 foot long doublet (skinny wire, 
stealthily hung in the trees) fed with home brew 600 ohm ladder line. It works 
great and I can operate on 60 - 6 meters with it. Without a tuner, that would 
not be possible.

JIm / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft]

Not even 10 post yet, and the subject has already morphed into something 
else.The OP asked which of the two should he install first.How did this become 
X length of coax, or having a Resonant antenna?OR! Being Lazy?
73 Milverton / W9MMS. 
 


  From: Michael Walker <va...@portcredit.net>
 To: "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg
   
As a wise ham told me.  What do you need a tuner for?

Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Gerald Manthey <kc6...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why is 10' to 15' of coax  what you would want if using a tuner in the
> shack? I know about loses in really long runs, but why 10 to 15 feet?
> Thanks asking to learn not criticizing.
> Gerald
>
> > On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch <rodenkirch_...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.
> >
> > If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll
> need
> > some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to
> coax:
> >
> >  - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
> > efficient spot) then save your
> >    money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place
> it
> > at the point where the open
> >    wire line transitions to coaxial feed.
> >  - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial
> run
> > short, the internal auto tuner
> >    would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.
> >
> > If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length
> longer
> > than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place
> an
> > LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
> > coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day.
> >
> > If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be
> 'da
> > way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the
> antenna
> > feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.
> >
> > 72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
> > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > Message delivered to kc6...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

They're independent. Since the KAT3 tuner is just a plug-in, I'd suggest
installing it and the KPA3 shield first (do everything in the KPA3
instructions down to "Installing the KPAIO3A Interface Module"), since the
both require more mechanical disassembly. Put everything back except for the
K3 top cover and check out the KAT3 at 10 watts (don't forget to enable the
KAT3 as described on the last page of the installation instructions!). 

Then it's a matter of replacing the blank panel on the K3 with the fans and
then plugging in the KIO3A and KPA3 100 watt amp modules and testing and
enabling them. 

73 Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:12 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 100W
amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp first. 

Yes?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Michael Walker]

As a wise ham told me.  What do you need a tuner for?

Don't be lazy, fix your antennas. If they aren't broken, then build
resonate antennas.  They just work the best.

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Gerald Manthey  wrote:

> Why is 10' to 15' of coax  what you would want if using a tuner in the
> shack? I know about loses in really long runs, but why 10 to 15 feet?
> Thanks asking to learn not criticizing.
> Gerald
>
> > On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch 
> wrote:
> >
> > Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.
> >
> > If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll
> need
> > some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to
> coax:
> >
> >   - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
> > efficient spot) then save your
> > money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place
> it
> > at the point where the open
> > wire line transitions to coaxial feed.
> >   - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial
> run
> > short, the internal auto tuner
> > would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.
> >
> > If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length
> longer
> > than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place
> an
> > LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
> > coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day.
> >
> > If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be
> 'da
> > way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the
> antenna
> > feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.
> >
> > 72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
> > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gerald Manthey]

Why is 10' to 15' of coax  what you would want if using a tuner in the shack? I 
know about loses in really long runs, but why 10 to 15 feet? 
Thanks asking to learn not criticizing. 
Gerald 

> On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch  wrote:
> 
> Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.
> 
> If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll need
> some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to coax:
> 
>   - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
> efficient spot) then save your 
> money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place it
> at the point where the open 
> wire line transitions to coaxial feed. 
>   - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial run
> short, the internal auto tuner
> would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.
> 
> If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length longer
> than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place an
> LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
> coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day. 
> 
> If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be 'da
> way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the antenna
> feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.
> 
> 72 de Jim R. K9JWV
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Amp-or-tuner-Chicken-or-Egg-tp7614243p7614247.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Fred Jensen]

I don't think that's what he asked.

If the K3S is at all like the K3, the the assembly manual will tell you. 
 I remember there is some calibration stuff to do before adding either 
the ATU or PA, and it tells you which to do first.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 2/17/2016 1:31 PM, Jim Rodenkirch wrote:

Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.

If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll need
some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to coax:

- if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
efficient spot) then save your
  money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place it
at the point where the open
  wire line transitions to coaxial feed.
- if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial run
short, the internal auto tuner
  would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.

If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length longer
than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place an
LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day.

If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be 'da
way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the antenna
feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.

72 de Jim R. K9JWV


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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Jim Rodenkirch]

Gary - depends on your antenna and how you feed it.

If you intend to feed a multi-band antenna with open wire line, you'll need
some sort of tuner at the point where you transition from open wire to coax:

   - if you plan on doing that out near the base of your antenna (the most
efficient spot) then save your 
 money and purchase an auto tuner, e.g., an LDG Z11 ProII, and place it
at the point where the open 
 wire line transitions to coaxial feed. 
   - if you plan on doing that inside the shack and can keep the coaxial run
short, the internal auto tuner
 would work, albeit you could employ an LDG Z11 ProII there as well.

If you plan on feeding any multi band antenna with coax of a length longer
than 10' to 15' an auto tuner inside the shack isn't worth much -- place an
LDG Z11 ProII style auto tuner at the base of the antenna, 'tween the
coaxial fee line and the antenna feed point and call it a day. 

If you plan on taking the K3S on portable tripsits auto tuner wud be 'da
way to go, as long as you keep coaxial runs 'tween the K3S and the antenna
feed point short"short" means < 10' to 15' or so.

72 de Jim R. K9JWV



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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Clay Autery]

KAT3A ATU first...  There are cals and such to do BEFORE the PA is
installed.  In my Assembly manual, the PA went in last before the final
button-up.

READ the Assembly Manual to confirm...  Once the PA is in, (with its
shield), the chassi gets tight around the ATU board areas where you
replace the KANT3A with the KAT3A board.

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(318) 518-1389

On 2/17/2016 3:12 PM, Gary Smith wrote:
> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
> first. 
>
> Yes?
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Bill Conkling]

Check the K3S assembly manual.  If I remember correctly from my Original K3 
assembly, the manual paused to instruct you when it was time to install various 
options to allow you to install or skip steps if yu were not installing that 
option.



> On Feb 17, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
> 100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
> first. 
> 
> Yes?
> 
> Thanks & 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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[Elecraft] Amp or tuner / Chicken or Egg

[Gary Smith]

Just got my factory assembled K3s/10 delivered. I need to install the 
100W amp and internal tuner. Seems like I'd want to install the amp 
first. 

Yes?

Thanks & 73,

Gary
KA1J
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