[Elecraft] K3 AGC settings for weak signal CW
Would anyone be willing to share their preferred AGC settings for receiving weak cw signals? Specifically, I'm wanting to fine tune my settings for listening to at the noise 2 meter and 6 meter beacons. Thanks!ChadN0YK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC settings for weak signal CW
Thanks for the explanation and plot. I will try your settings for the slope/threshold. I do run a mast-mount SP-2000 for 2 meters with the internal K144XV, works well together. I have not added a preamp on 6 meters yet. Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:28:55 + From: als...@nc.rr.com To: chadwasin...@outlook.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC settings for weak signal CW Chad, AGC doesn't kick in till way above weak signal on any reasonable values of THR and slope. Of course a mast mounted preamp on 2M would help a lot. One can get by with a back of the rig preamp for 6M. The stock K3 is deaf on 6M. For weak CW signal DXing, I had to add 15 db of low NF preamp gain. Managed to finally finish 6M DXCC last year. The prevailing DXer's are all over the map on where to set the threshold on HF bands. I've decided to set slope/threshold to 12/12 here based upon some measurements. Attached is the curve I generated. The threshold determines where the AGC action starts. The slope is how fast the audio rises with increasing signal above this point. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 1/17/2013 16:15, Chad Wasinger wrote: Would anyone be willing to share their preferred AGC settings for receiving weak cw signals? Specifically, I'm wanting to fine tune my settings for listening to at the noise 2 meter and 6 meter beacons. Thanks!ChadN0YK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2638/5539 - Release Date: 01/17/13 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC settings for weak signal CW
Chad, You will be better off setting the AGC parameters to match your operating needs. Go to my website www.w3fpr.com and read the article on Noisy K3 to guilde you. The menu parameters have been expanded since that article was written, but the principles are the same, but they now cover a greater range. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/17/2013 11:15 AM, Chad Wasinger wrote: Would anyone be willing to share their preferred AGC settings for receiving weak cw signals? Specifically, I'm wanting to fine tune my settings for listening to at the noise 2 meter and 6 meter beacons. Thanks!ChadN0YK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 AGC settings used in CQ WW CW
G'day Prior to the CQ WW CW contest, I did some experimentation with the K3 AGC settings (rev 4.51 firmware). I started with the AGC SLP set to 0 and the AGC THR to 8. After some problems with the AGC action on stronger signals (S9 to S9 plus), I increased the SLP to 2 and found that there was no longer any need to turn the AGC off and ride the RF gain on these signals. These settings worked well for me here in Western Australia, but the signal levels aren't as high as they would be in Europe or North America. Vy 73 Steve, VK6VZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 AGC settings w/ MCU 4.51
Hello All, I own a K3, am running MCU 4.51, and operate virtually 100% cw. With respect to MCU 4.51, I note that the software site says, AGC IMPROVEMENTS: AGC threshold (CONFIG:AGC THR) can now be set much higher, and the AGC has better (more monotonic) response curves. Greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher. NR and Auto-Notch can be used at all threshold settings. I set the AGC threshold up to 12 and find that stronger signals are too loud and strident, while weak signals are almost inaudible. I have the AGC decay on 'soft'; AGC hold on 0.00; AGC pls on 'nor'; AGC slp on 010, AGC F(ast) at 120. I'd like to survey K3 users (using MCU 4.51) WHO ARE SERIOUS CW CONTEST OPS WHO LIKE TO RUN, as to their preferred AGC settings (all of them, not just threshold). Thanks much for the input from the cw contesters who like to run! 73, -Rich, W2EG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC settings w/ MCU 4.51
Here are my AGC settings: AGC Decay: soft Hld: 0.2 Pls: nor Slp: 0 Thr: 20 F: 200 AF lim: nor 030 Here are my observations, using those settings, during WPX CW: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Rev-4-51-firmware-what-AGC-settings-worked-on-big-pile-ups-with-loud-AND-weak-signals-in-the-WPX-td7556676.html#a7556700 Dave Hachadorian, K6LL Yuma, Arizona -Original Message- From: Richard Lee Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:07 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 AGC settings w/ MCU 4.51 Hello All, I own a K3, am running MCU 4.51, and operate virtually 100% cw. With respect to MCU 4.51, I note that the software site says, AGC IMPROVEMENTS: AGC threshold (CONFIG:AGC THR) can now be set much higher, and the AGC has better (more monotonic) response curves. Greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher. NR and Auto-Notch can be used at all threshold settings. I set the AGC threshold up to 12 and find that stronger signals are too loud and strident, while weak signals are almost inaudible. I have the AGC decay on 'soft'; AGC hold on 0.00; AGC pls on 'nor'; AGC slp on 010, AGC F(ast) at 120. I'd like to survey K3 users (using MCU 4.51) WHO ARE SERIOUS CW CONTEST OPS WHO LIKE TO RUN, as to their preferred AGC settings (all of them, not just threshold). Thanks much for the input from the cw contesters who like to run! 73, -Rich, W2EG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 AGC settings
Many thanks to Don Wilhelm and Jim Brown for what amounts to a tutorial on using the K3 AGC settings given over the past few days. I found the discussion very helpful and effective, and was enabled to attack my settings purposefully, rather that using a shotgun, shoot in the dark approach. Now, if someone will just take on explaining the NR settings 73, Chuck Teague NN7U K2 3347 K3 2693 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] AGC settings
FWIW: What I use on AGC varies from day to day and with varying conditions. Right now my params are: AGC DCY: Soft AGC HLD: 0.73 AGC PLS: nor AGC SLP: 014 AGC THR: 004 AGC - F: 140 AGC - S: 026 other params: L - Mix - R: Ab b AF LIM: 025 AF GAIN: LO RX EQ: 1 : +3 2: 0 3: 0 4: +1 5: -2 6: +1 7: -2 8: -16 TX EQ: Flat (never tried to adjust that) on 80 Meters, the AF gain is at 11 o'clock, and the RF gain is between 12 and 1 o'clock (These vary with band. 160 and 80 are about like this, but the RF goes higher as I vary antennas and will end up being fully clockwise on 20 - 10 meters.) Hope these help someone. Tonight, the bands are quiet and the signals sound great and the noise or hiss is low with the above params. I use AGC in the slow position for voice and fast or slow for CW (depending upon my mood!) Bill W4ISH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 AGC Settings Tutorial
BACKGROUND There has been a lot of confusion about AGC in the K3. Some of it is AGC related, some of it is AGC interaction with noise reduction (NR). A later email will address the noise reduction issue. For now, let';s look at the AGC apart from NR. --- WHY DID THE AGC CHANGE? WHen we interoduced the HAGC mod a few months ago, it increased the dynamic range of the radio before Hardware AGC (HAGC) kicked in. HAGC is there to protect the analog to digital converter (ADC) from over-range. The mod required that the DSP AGC cover a wider range. It turned out that the DSP AGC was not doing the job it was intended to do on these stronger signals. We were receiving a steady stream of complaints about loud signals being almost painful to K3 operators using headphones. IF flat (SLOE=15) was selected it worked fine, but other settings resulted in excessive signal strength. The AGC control algorithm was recently changed to compensate for this problem. At the same time, the AGC threshold range was adjusted to more closely mimic earlier K3 AGC threshold behavior. --- HOW SHOULD I ADJUST THE AGC? For most of us, the K3 AGC is simply a matter of OFF|FAST|SLOW. HOwever, many peopl prefer an AGC that starts on band noise; others want it to start with a weak to moderate signal. Some people like the audio level to be constant once AGC has been activated' others want some sense of increasing loudness as the signal strength increases. Here is how I suggest you set the AGC for your needs. 1) CONFIG:TECH MD ON This exposes the AGC parameters you can adjust. 2) CONFIG:AGC SLP 015 This makes the audio response flat once the AGC threshold has been reached. 3) CONFIG:AGC THR Tune around and and adjust this to the desired threshold. A low number means a weaker signal (or noise) will activate the AGC. Note: THE AGC does NOT drive the S METER, so don't make the mistake of conditioning yourself to look at S METER action and think you are seeing the affects of AGC adjustments. Note: Different bands and different days have different amounts of noise. A noise QRN-filled summer noise level is very different than a quiet winter evening's noise level. The AGC doesn't know the difference, so it is up to you to change things if you desire different thresholds on a seasonal basis. 4) CONFIG:AGC SLP Now that you have the threshold chosen, tune across loud and weak signals. Adjust the SLP parameter so that stronger signals sound louder by reducing this value from 15. If you want everything to be flat above the threshold, leave it at 15. --- WHAT IS NEXT? The changes to the AGC have not pleased everyone. We are embarking on a modification and test program to further improve it. Watch this space! --- AGC - OTHER You can also adjust the decay rates for FAST (CONFIG:AGC F) and SLOW (CONFIG:AGC S). Larger values indicate faster decay. The amount of HOLD time that AGC SLOW uses before it commences decay is also settable (CONGIF:AGC HLD). Most people seem to be happy with the defaults. Thank you for your patience and we continue to work to make the K3 YOUR radio. 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC Settings Tutorial
Thanks for the explanation. As you say, noise levels differ between bands and over time E.g. 80m in Summer compared to Winter or HF versus 50MHz and higher bands via a transverter. Does the AGC setting apply per band or does it cover all bands? AGC also depends on mode, CW vs SSB bandwidths. Again, does it differ? If so there will be an awful lot of tweeking needed for all possible combinations. 73 Mike Lyle Johnson wrote: Note: Different bands and different days have different amounts of noise. A noise QRN-filled summer noise level is very different than a quiet winter evening's noise level. The AGC doesn't know the difference, so it is up to you to change things if you desire different thresholds on a seasonal basis. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AGC-Settings-Tutorial-tp681120p681400.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC Settings Tutorial
Thanks for the explanation. As you say, noise levels differ between bands and over time E.g. 80m in Summer compared to Winter or HF versus 50MHz and higher bands via a transverter. Does the AGC setting apply per band or does it cover all bands? AGC is AGC. It is not per band, it is per radio :-) AGC also depends on mode, CW vs SSB bandwidths. Again, does it differ? Use AGC OFF | FAST | SLOW Most people prefer FAST for CW and SLOW for SSB. If so there will be an awful lot of tweeking needed for all possible combinations. I do not know of a radio with per band AGC settings, or per season. Most radios don't let you adjust the threshold or slope -- or the decay rate of FAST and SLOW. With the K3 we allow you to tailor the AGC; we don't require that you tailor it. 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 AGC Settings Tutorial
* AGC is AGC. It is not per band, it is per radio :-) I do not know of a radio with per band AGC settings, or per season. Most radios don't let you adjust the threshold or slope -- or the decay rate of FAST and SLOW. With the K3 we allow you to tailor the AGC; we don't require that you tailor it. 73, Lyle KK7P * It is true that the AGC pertains to the radio and not the band, but the optimal AGC threshold setting does vary by band. On 80m, for example, I set the AGC threshold on my Ten-Tec Orion at about 20uV. On 10m, where the noise level is very low, I set it at 0.5uV. The Orion, incidentally, has fast, medium, and slow AGC settings, plus a custom prog setting, and one can set the threshold, decay rate and hang time independently for each speed. It is possible to spend hours fiddling with the Orion's AGC settings. 73, Jim W8ZR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC Settings Tutorial
It is true that the AGC pertains to the radio and not the band, but the optimal AGC threshold setting does vary by band. On 80m, for example, I set the AGC threshold on my Ten-Tec Orion at about 20uV. On 10m, where the noise level is very low, I set it at 0.5uV. The Orion, incidentally, has fast, medium, and slow AGC settings, plus a custom prog setting, and one can set the threshold, decay rate and hang time independently for each speed. It is possible to spend hours fiddling with the Orion's AGC settings. One of the reasons you have to change it so much is any AGC that has no effect at all until a threshold and then tips in all at once is always critical to adjust. A good AGC system has a slope rather than a hard threshold with no AGC at all below a point, and then hard AGC after that point that clamps the volume to one level. At quiet locations the dominant noise is propagated via skywave just like the desired signals. This means the noise floor varies greatly with direction depending on propagation or even the time of day. On the same band in different directions the noise floor can vary 10 or 20 dB. This requires constant adjustment of AGC threshold with any AGC that tips in fully at a threshold. AGC systems with a slope don't exaggerate the problem of noise level changes and they don't muddy the signals into one constant level or no AGC at all. When I solid stated my R4C's I built a new AGC circuit. I put a lot of gain in the AGC, there was very little audio level change with input signal level change. On the bench it was nearly perfect, once the AGC started working everything stayed at nearly the same audio level. I worked to make it have flat audio level with varying signal levels, textbook perfect AGC. Everyone hated it. It required constant riding of RF gain. It made weak DX stations near noise floor muddy up or vanish, and it was impossible to sort signals close in pitch in pileups. Decreasing the gain in the AGC circuit cured it, and it was no longer necessary to ride the RF gain (same as adjusting AGC threshold). The K3 has an AGC SLP adjustment that cures this problem. I was delighted to see the people at Elecraft included an AGC slope adjustment, and that it works to make the AGC have that analog sound operators here like for handling pileups and for weak signals in rough noise. Unless you have an old analog AGC system the slope adjustment is a must have requirement. Especially for people who work pileups or work DX that is in and out of rough noise like static crashes. Although I just started using the K3, I really like the AGC system so far. That's in contrast to other digital AGC systems I quickly learned to *dislike*. Low band DXers or contesting people will really like the slope adjustment feature. 73 Tom ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] [K3] AGC Settings and DSP 1.87
DSP firmware 1.87 corrects two AGC problems occasionally resulting in complaints of unexpectedly loud signals in an operator's headphones. The first lowers the AGC threshold. It was inadvertently raised sometime after release 1.47. It is now back to its original range. The second corrects a problem in the AGC slope. As signals grew stronger, the AGC was not properly restricting their range, particularly for signals from about S9 to the activation of hardware AGC (about S9+5 or 10 in the earliest K3s; about S9+20 in later K3s and those with the HAGC mod). The new code sets the slope of the AGC as linear in dB. This means that if you have it set for, say, 1 dB of output change for 10 dB of signal change, then an input signal change of 40 dB will result in about a 4 dB change in the audio level. The slope now ranges from essentially flat output (CONFIG:AGC SLP 15) to about 3.75 dB audio rise per 10 dB signal rise (CONFIG:AGC SLP 0). Each step is about 0.25 dB audio change per 10 dB of input signal change. You probably won't need to alter any AGC settings in your K3, but you may want to experiment with different values of CONFIG:AGC THR and CONFIG:AGC SLP. Remember, there is no correct setting; the K3 is designed to be tailored to your preferences. Enjoy! 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 AGC settings
What can be done with the AGC is simply marvelous. I have put the THR and the SLP on the PF buttons for now. BUT... I can adjust these settings easily now for the band condition and the signal I am listening to. However, I don't necessarily have a good feel at all for what I have actually done. In other words... It would be wonderful if someone, and maybe Lyle already has this, posted on the web a series of grapsh showing just what the slope looks like for each of the slp settings, and how the threshold changes with the settings. That would be most interesting to see. 73, Fred - kt5x ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
