Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-04-01 Thread Wes
You said: "In addition, when the DSP IF filters are set to about the same width 
as the roofing filters, the two filters "cascade" -- the rejection of adjacent 
signals is the sum of the rejection of the two filters. "


There is no requirement that the widths be about the same. They could be widely 
different.  If one passes an interfering signal with no attenuation and the 
other has 100 dB rejection then the sum is 0 + 100 = 100.  Either could be first 
in the lineup.


If the K3 second mixer was stronger, hardware AGC might not be necessary and the 
only need for a "roofing" filter would be to eliminate the image.  A single 
10-12 kHz filter would suffice and DSP would be the final filter. Sounds like a 
K4HD doesn't it?



On 4/1/2020 10:23 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 4/1/2020 7:17 AM, Wes wrote:
Until you get down to the noise floor isn't it always the sum (in dB) of the 
rejection?


Isn't that what I said? Perhaps I said it badly.

73, Jim 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-04-01 Thread Jim Brown

On 4/1/2020 7:17 AM, Wes wrote:
Until you get down to the noise floor isn't it always the sum (in dB) of 
the rejection?


Isn't that what I said? Perhaps I said it badly.

73, Jim
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-04-01 Thread Wes
Until you get down to the noise floor isn't it always the sum (in dB) of the 
rejection?


Wes  N7WS

On 3/31/2020 8:52 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 3/31/2020 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
What the roofing filters will do is keep the receiver from reducing the 
hardware AGC for stations which are within the roofing filter passband.


In addition, when the DSP IF filters are set to about the same width as the 
roofing filters, the two filters "cascade" -- the rejection of adjacent 
signals is the sum of the rejection of the two filters.


73, Jim K9YC 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-04-01 Thread N2TK via Elecraft
John, I concur. When I am running them especially on 20M I find I have the
LO Cut at .35 and the HI Cut at 2.25-2.35. Audio is good. Below 2.25 if the
calling station is a little off freq or has terrible audio I may waste time
trying to get the call.
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of j...@kk9a.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 7:30 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

I concur. I have 2.8, 2.1 and 1.8 KHz 8 pole roofing filters in my K3S. I
made over 8500 SSB QSOs last month and I used the 2.1 KHz roofing filter for
all of them.

John KK9A



Jim Brown K9YC wrote:


I tried that and didn't like the result. I prefer 2.1 kHz 8 pole

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-04-01 Thread john
I concur. I have 2.8, 2.1 and 1.8 KHz 8 pole roofing filters in my  
K3S. I made over 8500 SSB QSOs last month and I used the 2.1 KHz  
roofing filter for all of them.


John KK9A



Jim Brown K9YC wrote:


I tried that and didn't like the result. I prefer 2.1 kHz 8 pole

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-04-01 Thread David Gilbert


No, the roofing filters aren't superfluous even with lower level 
signals.  If you set the bandwidths similarly as I do all of the time, 
the rejection of the filter adds to the rejection from the DSP.  I think 
this should be pretty obvious.


Dave   AB7E



On 3/31/2020 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Hopefully that we will remember that the DSP filter skirts are steeper 
than the crystal filter skirts, so judicious use of the HiCut and 
LoCut will provide us with a better passband than narrow roofing filters.


What the roofing filters will do is keep the receiver from reducing 
the hardware AGC for stations which are within the roofing filter 
passband.
It takes adjacent signals in excess of S-9 +30 for the adjacent signal 
to activate the hardware AGC (which protects the front end DAC from 
overload).  If the interfering station does not exceed that threshold, 
then the DSP filters will take care of it, and the need for more 
narrow roofing filters is superfluous.


73,
Don W3FPR


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread Jim Brown

On 3/31/2020 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
What the roofing filters will do is keep the receiver from reducing the 
hardware AGC for stations which are within the roofing filter passband.


In addition, when the DSP IF filters are set to about the same width as 
the roofing filters, the two filters "cascade" -- the rejection of 
adjacent signals is the sum of the rejection of the two filters.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread Don Wilhelm
Hopefully that we will remember that the DSP filter skirts are steeper 
than the crystal filter skirts, so judicious use of the HiCut and LoCut 
will provide us with a better passband than narrow roofing filters.


What the roofing filters will do is keep the receiver from reducing the 
hardware AGC for stations which are within the roofing filter passband.
It takes adjacent signals in excess of S-9 +30 for the adjacent signal 
to activate the hardware AGC (which protects the front end DAC from 
overload).  If the interfering station does not exceed that threshold, 
then the DSP filters will take care of it, and the need for more narrow 
roofing filters is superfluous.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/31/2020 8:57 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Remember, different brands of 2.1 or 1.8 filters are not necessarily equal.  
One must realize the shape factor is more important than the published BW.  
Just because one radio filter is 1.8 kHz does not mean another 1.8 kHz BW is 
the same.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:02 PM, Nate Bargmann  wrote:

I typically use Hi Cut the most, Lo Cut once in a while and almost never
use Width in SSB mode.  For me the 2.1 kHz filter works swell in this
application.

In the late '90s I bought a TS-850s which was fitted with a 1.8 kHz
factory accessory filter.  I couldn't get rid of it fast enough and
outfitted the radio with Inrad 2.1 kHz filters.  They were far more
pleasing to me.

73, Nate, N0NB

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
Remember, different brands of 2.1 or 1.8 filters are not necessarily equal.  
One must realize the shape factor is more important than the published BW.  
Just because one radio filter is 1.8 kHz does not mean another 1.8 kHz BW is 
the same. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:02 PM, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> 
> I typically use Hi Cut the most, Lo Cut once in a while and almost never
> use Width in SSB mode.  For me the 2.1 kHz filter works swell in this
> application.
> 
> In the late '90s I bought a TS-850s which was fitted with a 1.8 kHz
> factory accessory filter.  I couldn't get rid of it fast enough and
> outfitted the radio with Inrad 2.1 kHz filters.  They were far more
> pleasing to me.
> 
> 73, Nate, N0NB
> 
> -- 
> 
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
> 
> Web: https://www.n0nb.us
> Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
> GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread Nate Bargmann
I typically use Hi Cut the most, Lo Cut once in a while and almost never
use Width in SSB mode.  For me the 2.1 kHz filter works swell in this
application.

In the late '90s I bought a TS-850s which was fitted with a 1.8 kHz
factory accessory filter.  I couldn't get rid of it fast enough and
outfitted the radio with Inrad 2.1 kHz filters.  They were far more
pleasing to me.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-03-31 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
Having the 1.8 kHz in my K3S, I know what and how it works.

 I work 2 SSB traffic LSB nets which both have LSB nets which are 2 kHZ above 
my net frequency.   That means at least 700 Hz to 1000 Hz of their primary 
signal is in my receiver passband.   The 1.8 kHz filter, the DSP at 1.8 kHz and 
using SHIFT handles the issues nicely. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Buck  wrote:
> 
> Why go halfway?  I would go with the 1.8 as a roofing filter.  Crank the DSP 
> down to 1.6 and slew the passband to get the best readability.
> 
> Buck, k4ia
> Honor Roll
> 8BDXCC
> EasyWayHamBooks.com
> 
>> On 3/31/2020 12:17 PM, John Simmons wrote:
>> David,
>> I'm looking to upgrade my filters for SSB. I have the 2.8 filter installed, 
>> which has steeper skirts than the 2.7. I'm wondering if the 2.1 would have a 
>> noticeable enough effect to justify the cost.
>> -de John NI0K
>> David Smith wrote on 3/31/2020 10:26 AM:
>>> Been interesting reading the comments on SSB contesting and filtering.  As 
>>> a serious SSB contester from way back in the 80s, side rejection from other 
>>> contesters (especially where we are all bunched up on 40 meters and also 
>>> when the shortwave broadcast stations come on) has always been a topic of 
>>> conversation with my fellow ssb ops -- which radio to buy, which filter to 
>>> use, dsp, etc.
>>> I have the 2.1 khz, 8 pole roofing filter installed in by my K3s BTW.  With 
>>> that said, I think the bleeding over QRM from other ssb stations 
>>> (especially on 40 meters) is just the “nature of the beast” with ssb 
>>> contesting.  And boy is it a killer on the ears during and after a contest
>>> Anxious to hear other comments from other.
>>> 
>>> David ND4Y
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>> 
>>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-03-31 Thread Jim Brown

On 3/31/2020 3:18 PM, Buck wrote:

Why go halfway?  I would go with the 1.8 as a roofing filter.


I tried that and didn't like the result. I prefer 2.1 kHz 8 pole

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-03-31 Thread Buck
Why go halfway?  I would go with the 1.8 as a roofing filter.  Crank the 
DSP down to 1.6 and slew the passband to get the best readability.


Buck, k4ia
Honor Roll
8BDXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 3/31/2020 12:17 PM, John Simmons wrote:

David,

I'm looking to upgrade my filters for SSB. I have the 2.8 filter 
installed, which has steeper skirts than the 2.7. I'm wondering if the 
2.1 would have a noticeable enough effect to justify the cost.


-de John NI0K

David Smith wrote on 3/31/2020 10:26 AM:
Been interesting reading the comments on SSB contesting and 
filtering.  As a serious SSB contester from way back in the 80s, side 
rejection from other contesters (especially where we are all bunched 
up on 40 meters and also when the shortwave broadcast stations come 
on) has always been a topic of conversation with my fellow ssb ops -- 
which radio to buy, which filter to use, dsp, etc.
I have the 2.1 khz, 8 pole roofing filter installed in by my K3s BTW.  
With that said, I think the bleeding over QRM from other ssb stations 
(especially on 40 meters) is just the “nature of the beast” with ssb 
contesting.  And boy is it a killer on the ears during and after a 
contest

Anxious to hear other comments from other.

David ND4Y


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-03-31 Thread John Simmons

David,

I'm looking to upgrade my filters for SSB. I have the 2.8 filter 
installed, which has steeper skirts than the 2.7. I'm wondering if the 
2.1 would have a noticeable enough effect to justify the cost.


-de John NI0K

David Smith wrote on 3/31/2020 10:26 AM:

Been interesting reading the comments on SSB contesting and filtering.  As a 
serious SSB contester from way back in the 80s, side rejection from other 
contesters (especially where we are all bunched up on 40 meters and also when 
the shortwave broadcast stations come on) has always been a topic of 
conversation with my fellow ssb ops -- which radio to buy, which filter to use, 
dsp, etc.
I have the 2.1 khz, 8 pole roofing filter installed in by my K3s BTW.  With 
that said, I think the bleeding over QRM from other ssb stations (especially on 
40 meters) is just the “nature of the beast” with ssb contesting.  And boy is 
it a killer on the ears during and after a contest
Anxious to hear other comments from other.

David ND4Y


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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[Elecraft] K3 SSB Filters

2020-03-31 Thread David Smith
Been interesting reading the comments on SSB contesting and filtering.  As a 
serious SSB contester from way back in the 80s, side rejection from other 
contesters (especially where we are all bunched up on 40 meters and also when 
the shortwave broadcast stations come on) has always been a topic of 
conversation with my fellow ssb ops -- which radio to buy, which filter to use, 
dsp, etc.  
I have the 2.1 khz, 8 pole roofing filter installed in by my K3s BTW.  With 
that said, I think the bleeding over QRM from other ssb stations (especially on 
40 meters) is just the “nature of the beast” with ssb contesting.  And boy is 
it a killer on the ears during and after a contest
Anxious to hear other comments from other.

David ND4Y 


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX
I have, in my K3S,  the standard 2.7 kHz filter for transmit and often 
use the 1.8 kHz filter for receive to deal with QRM.  It is necessary to 
adjust the SHIFT in order to improve copy when the 1.8 kHz filter is 
active.  Yes, this is perfectly normal, the 1.8 kHz filter is not going 
to allow the audio to be Hi-Fi quality. That's the nature of 
"communications quality" audio.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 3/31/2020 10:00 AM, John Simmons wrote:
With the recent experience in SSB  contests, I'm thinking of upgrading 
my SSB filter(s). Currently for SSB I have only the 2.8 filter. What 
are thoughts about other SSB filters? I know when I narrow the 
bandwidth to 1.8 the intelligibility goes down.


-de John NI0K
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread David Thompson via Elecraft
Hi John,

There’s a nice writeup from Wayne and Eric here:

https://elecraft.com/pages/k3s-crystal-roofing-filters

Perhaps that will help. It certainly helped me.

73 de AG7TX

David Thompson, AG7TX
Jack of All Trades
Master of None
dbthomp...@me.com




> On Mar 31, 2020, at 08:00, John Simmons  wrote:
> 
> With the recent experience in SSB  contests, I'm thinking of upgrading my SSB 
> filter(s). Currently for SSB I have only the 2.8 filter. What are thoughts 
> about other SSB filters? I know when I narrow the bandwidth to 1.8 the 
> intelligibility goes down.
> 
> -de John NI0K
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[Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2020-03-31 Thread John Simmons
With the recent experience in SSB  contests, I'm thinking of upgrading 
my SSB filter(s). Currently for SSB I have only the 2.8 filter. What are 
thoughts about other SSB filters? I know when I narrow the bandwidth to 
1.8 the intelligibility goes down.


-de John NI0K
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[Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2008-02-20 Thread Jeff Kinzli N6GQ
I've been reading the FAQ and the list archives trying to find out
what SSB filters I could benefit from in my K3, which is due to come
any day now! :) I've read some references that seem to suggest the 1.0
filter for SSB might be a bit on the narrow side.

I'm a 95% cw op, so I got the 500 and 250 filters for CW, but I'll be
taking the K3 to KH6 for the ARRL DX SSB contest, and since I'm not
much of a phone op, I'm looking for feedback from other SSB contesters
on what filters they've had success with in the K3. I don't yet have
the K3 so I'm not able to try the stock filter myself to make that
judgement...

My original plan was to just use the 2.7 stock filter, but now that
I'm thinking about it, I'm wondering if I should get the 2.1 also? Not
sure if there's enough difference to warrant that, or if it makes a
good deal of difference.  How suitable is the 2.7 filter for ssb
contesting?

Suggestions? Thanks,

-Jeff N6GQ
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 SSB filters

2008-02-20 Thread Darwin, Keith
 
Since the filters are roofing filters, I'm thinking that you don't have
to overboard.  My guess is the 2.7 is very good for contesting as it is.
For CW, it's wide, but for SSB, as a roofing filter, I'd actually call
it pretty narrow.

But then again, I'm a CW guy.  What do I know :-)

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
- K3 Wave 3 -

-Original Message-
I'm looking for feedback from other SSB contesters on what filters
they've had success with in the K3.

My original plan was to just use the 2.7 stock filter, ... wondering if
I should get the 2.1 also?
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