Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I commented earlier regarding Windows 10.   If you have ever had a 
program crash or the computer lock up, then you most likely will have 
command line fragments on your computer.  Some of these may not cause 
issues but some may.    To be safe, use a software application to clean 
and clear the Cache and clean the Registry. There are several good ones 
that are FREE.   {The best kind for hams}


Our IT staff would often write a fault found as a "PICNIC". Problem In 
Chair Not In Computer.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 4/16/2019 11:55 AM, K8TE wrote:

It's already possible to use a K3 without a computer.  I've done that in the
middle of a contest when I had to re-boot my computer.  I logged on paper
until I had access to the log when I added those contacts.

Regarding computer-related problems, having provided on-line and telephone
tech support for Gateway, the majority of troubles with which I helped were
user-induced.  I liken the issue to when I had responsibility for a small
phone system--lack of knowledge on using that "tool."  I assert we need to
have sufficient knowledge to operate and maintain our computers, just like
our radios.  Sometimes we need to seek help from others, often found on this
list.

I also assert too many ops aren't conversant with their equipment and much
less with their equipment manuals.  Of course, we all do dumb things and I
am near the top of that list.  Still, I update my PDF manuals and make use
of them.  For Windows, Google is your friend.  It is more useful than trying
to find help on Microsoft's web site, in my experience.

I use electronic loggers for many reasons.  Except for the fine products at
QRPWorks, I use a computer and the appropriate logger.  I am a keyboard wiz
and can type much faster than I can print.  BTW, I have often used the K3
Utility with a USB hub.  But, not all USB hubs are created equal and I
always bypass a hub when troubleshooting connectivity issues.

I would rather have the K4 firmware space used for features rather than
replacing functions best done on a computer or other external device.  It is
2019 and computers belong in our shacks, IMHO.  On SOTA peaks, that may be a
different story.  Still, I prefer a non-radio solution for logging, like a
notebook computer, than having a logger in my radio.  Save that battery for
operating!  Just my humble (or not) opinion.

BTW, I enjoyed several conversations with Elecraft personnel at the IDXC
this weekend and with Bill, AE6JV.  I also noticed WA6HHQ on APRS.  It was
an excellent convention once again and I hope the plans to move it to the
Wyndham next year revert back to the Visalia Convention Center with its
larger facilities.

73, Bill, K8TE

So, speaking of the K4 . . .

When Eric asked a few weeks ago what we might like to have if there were to
be a next generation transceiver, near the top of my list was adding
whatever it would take to make it unnecessary to connect the transceiver to
an outboard computer -- so far as reasonably possible -- ever, for anything.
Eric eventually closed that thread and I don't mean to reopen the wider
question.  But would something along those lines ease the kinds of problems
we've been reading about here lately?

Ted, KN1CBR




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Nor any other operating system of any type, past, present or future.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 4/16/2019 1:40 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

We will never, ever put any incarnation of Windows in a radio.

Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com 

On Apr 16, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX > wrote:


PLEASE!  No operating system embedded in the radio.  Almost like ice 
cream, there is more than one flavor.


As to Windows 10 updates, configure for automatic, let it do its 
thing, and don't mess with the parameters.  It is so easy and 
reliable.  Don't make it complicated by trying to run it yourself.


You also need to maintain a "clean" computer with regular Cache and 
Registry cleaning.  Leftover and fragments may over ride new updates. 
 Also Virus and Malware issues may interfere with correct operation.


Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 16, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Robert Rennard via Elecraft 
mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> wrote:


I believe that putting WIN10 hardware in the radio will be a benefit 
to the OEM.  It will make the radio become obsolete faster and allow 
more sales for upgrades.


Maestro, SunSDR, and Anan MK II radios all have Win10 PCs embedded. 
 Those radios’ embedded PCs are all obsolete already.
Consider how much pain it is to deal with Windows 10 updates.  I am 
sure the radio OEMs are paranoid, or at least I would be were I one 
of them.  When you have a widely deployed product that suddenly 
stops working because of an update, the pain is intense and 
expensive to cure.


How about an Intel NUC instead of a PC ?   They were used on Heard 
and Ducie rather than using laptops.   Even NUCs do not support IPA 
4K monitors, yet.


Bob R

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Ken G Kopp]

Whew!

Good news!

As I set here waiting for a computer tech to arrive and fix my Windows 10
shack computer

73

K0PP

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 13:28 Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> We will never, ever put any incarnation of Windows in a radio.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> 
> elecraft.com
>
> > On Apr 16, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 
> wrote:
> >
> > PLEASE!  No operating system embedded in the radio.  Almost like ice
> cream, there is more than one flavor.
> >
> > As to Windows 10 updates, configure for automatic, let it do its thing,
> and don't mess with the parameters.  It is so easy and reliable.  Don't
> make it complicated by trying to run it yourself.
> >
> > You also need to maintain a "clean" computer with regular Cache and
> Registry cleaning.  Leftover and fragments may over ride new updates.  Also
> Virus and Malware issues may interfere with correct operation.
> >
> > Bob, K4TAX
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 16, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Robert Rennard via Elecraft <
> elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe that putting WIN10 hardware in the radio will be a benefit to
> the OEM.  It will make the radio become obsolete faster and allow more
> sales for upgrades.
> >>
> >> Maestro, SunSDR, and Anan MK II radios all have Win10 PCs embedded.
> Those radios’ embedded PCs are all obsolete already.
> >> Consider how much pain it is to deal with Windows 10 updates.  I am
> sure the radio OEMs are paranoid, or at least I would be were I one of
> them.  When you have a widely deployed product that suddenly stops working
> because of an update, the pain is intense and expensive to cure.
> >>
> >> How about an Intel NUC instead of a PC ?   They were used on Heard and
> Ducie rather than using laptops.   Even NUCs do not support IPA 4K
> monitors, yet.
> >>
> >> Bob R
> >>
> >> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Dauer, Edward]

OK, I move to strike my own prior motion.

 Ted, KN1CBR

Edward A. Dauer
Dean Emeritus and Professor Emeritus of Law
University of Denver


From: Wayne Burdick 
Date: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 12:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

We will never, ever put any incarnation of Windows in a radio.

Wayne
N6KR

elecraft.com<http://elecraft.com>

On Apr 16, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 
mailto:rmcg...@blomand.net>> wrote:
PLEASE!  No operating system embedded in the radio.  Almost like ice cream, 
there is more than one flavor.

As to Windows 10 updates, configure for automatic, let it do its thing, and 
don't mess with the parameters.  It is so easy and reliable.  Don't make it 
complicated by trying to run it yourself.

You also need to maintain a "clean" computer with regular Cache and Registry 
cleaning.  Leftover and fragments may over ride new updates.  Also Virus and 
Malware issues may interfere with correct operation.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 16, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Robert Rennard via Elecraft 
mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> wrote:

I believe that putting WIN10 hardware in the radio will be a benefit to the 
OEM.  It will make the radio become obsolete faster and allow more sales for 
upgrades.

Maestro, SunSDR, and Anan MK II radios all have Win10 PCs embedded.  Those 
radios’ embedded PCs are all obsolete already.
Consider how much pain it is to deal with Windows 10 updates.  I am sure the 
radio OEMs are paranoid, or at least I would be were I one of them.  When you 
have a widely deployed product that suddenly stops working because of an 
update, the pain is intense and expensive to cure.

How about an Intel NUC instead of a PC ?   They were used on Heard and Ducie 
rather than using laptops.   Even NUCs do not support IPA 4K monitors, yet.

Bob R


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Wayne Burdick]

We will never, ever put any incarnation of Windows in a radio. 

Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Apr 16, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> PLEASE!  No operating system embedded in the radio.  Almost like ice cream, 
> there is more than one flavor. 
> 
> As to Windows 10 updates, configure for automatic, let it do its thing, and 
> don't mess with the parameters.  It is so easy and reliable.  Don't make it 
> complicated by trying to run it yourself. 
> 
> You also need to maintain a "clean" computer with regular Cache and Registry 
> cleaning.  Leftover and fragments may over ride new updates.  Also Virus and 
> Malware issues may interfere with correct operation.  
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 16, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Robert Rennard via Elecraft 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe that putting WIN10 hardware in the radio will be a benefit to the 
>> OEM.  It will make the radio become obsolete faster and allow more sales for 
>> upgrades.
>> 
>> Maestro, SunSDR, and Anan MK II radios all have Win10 PCs embedded.  Those 
>> radios’ embedded PCs are all obsolete already.  
>> Consider how much pain it is to deal with Windows 10 updates.  I am sure the 
>> radio OEMs are paranoid, or at least I would be were I one of them.  When 
>> you have a widely deployed product that suddenly stops working because of an 
>> update, the pain is intense and expensive to cure.   
>> 
>> How about an Intel NUC instead of a PC ?   They were used on Heard and Ducie 
>> rather than using laptops.   Even NUCs do not support IPA 4K monitors, yet.
>> 
>> Bob R 
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

PLEASE!  No operating system embedded in the radio.  Almost like ice cream, 
there is more than one flavor. 

As to Windows 10 updates, configure for automatic, let it do its thing, and 
don't mess with the parameters.  It is so easy and reliable.  Don't make it 
complicated by trying to run it yourself. 

You also need to maintain a "clean" computer with regular Cache and Registry 
cleaning.  Leftover and fragments may over ride new updates.  Also Virus and 
Malware issues may interfere with correct operation.  

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 16, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Robert Rennard via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> I believe that putting WIN10 hardware in the radio will be a benefit to the 
> OEM.  It will make the radio become obsolete faster and allow more sales for 
> upgrades.
> 
> Maestro, SunSDR, and Anan MK II radios all have Win10 PCs embedded.  Those 
> radios’ embedded PCs are all obsolete already.  
> Consider how much pain it is to deal with Windows 10 updates.  I am sure the 
> radio OEMs are paranoid, or at least I would be were I one of them.  When you 
> have a widely deployed product that suddenly stops working because of an 
> update, the pain is intense and expensive to cure.   
> 
> How about an Intel NUC instead of a PC ?   They were used on Heard and Ducie 
> rather than using laptops.   Even NUCs do not support IPA 4K monitors, yet.
> 
> Bob R 
> 
> __
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[K8TE]

It's already possible to use a K3 without a computer.  I've done that in the
middle of a contest when I had to re-boot my computer.  I logged on paper
until I had access to the log when I added those contacts.

Regarding computer-related problems, having provided on-line and telephone
tech support for Gateway, the majority of troubles with which I helped were
user-induced.  I liken the issue to when I had responsibility for a small
phone system--lack of knowledge on using that "tool."  I assert we need to
have sufficient knowledge to operate and maintain our computers, just like
our radios.  Sometimes we need to seek help from others, often found on this
list.

I also assert too many ops aren't conversant with their equipment and much
less with their equipment manuals.  Of course, we all do dumb things and I
am near the top of that list.  Still, I update my PDF manuals and make use
of them.  For Windows, Google is your friend.  It is more useful than trying
to find help on Microsoft's web site, in my experience.

I use electronic loggers for many reasons.  Except for the fine products at
QRPWorks, I use a computer and the appropriate logger.  I am a keyboard wiz
and can type much faster than I can print.  BTW, I have often used the K3
Utility with a USB hub.  But, not all USB hubs are created equal and I
always bypass a hub when troubleshooting connectivity issues.

I would rather have the K4 firmware space used for features rather than
replacing functions best done on a computer or other external device.  It is
2019 and computers belong in our shacks, IMHO.  On SOTA peaks, that may be a
different story.  Still, I prefer a non-radio solution for logging, like a
notebook computer, than having a logger in my radio.  Save that battery for
operating!  Just my humble (or not) opinion.

BTW, I enjoyed several conversations with Elecraft personnel at the IDXC
this weekend and with Bill, AE6JV.  I also noticed WA6HHQ on APRS.  It was
an excellent convention once again and I hope the plans to move it to the
Wyndham next year revert back to the Visalia Convention Center with its
larger facilities.

73, Bill, K8TE

So, speaking of the K4 . . . 

When Eric asked a few weeks ago what we might like to have if there were to
be a next generation transceiver, near the top of my list was adding
whatever it would take to make it unnecessary to connect the transceiver to
an outboard computer -- so far as reasonably possible -- ever, for anything. 
Eric eventually closed that thread and I don't mean to reopen the wider
question.  But would something along those lines ease the kinds of problems
we've been reading about here lately?

Ted, KN1CBR



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Robert Rennard via Elecraft]

I believe that putting WIN10 hardware in the radio will be a benefit to the 
OEM.  It will make the radio become obsolete faster and allow more sales for 
upgrades.

Maestro, SunSDR, and Anan MK II radios all have Win10 PCs embedded.  Those 
radios’ embedded PCs are all obsolete already.  
Consider how much pain it is to deal with Windows 10 updates.  I am sure the 
radio OEMs are paranoid, or at least I would be were I one of them.  When you 
have a widely deployed product that suddenly stops working because of an 
update, the pain is intense and expensive to cure.   

How about an Intel NUC instead of a PC ?   They were used on Heard and Ducie 
rather than using laptops.   Even NUCs do not support IPA 4K monitors, yet.

Bob R 

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[Elecraft] K3 and WIN10

[Dauer, Edward]

So, speaking of the K4 . . . 

When Eric asked a few weeks ago what we might like to have if there were to be 
a next generation transceiver, near the top of my list was adding whatever it 
would take to make it unnecessary to connect the transceiver to an outboard 
computer -- so far as reasonably possible -- ever, for anything.  Eric 
eventually closed that thread and I don't mean to reopen the wider question.  
But would something along those lines ease the kinds of problems we've been 
reading about here lately?

Ted, KN1CBR


--

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 23:49:42 +
From: Andy Durbin 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Utility and Win 10
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

"Use a USB port on the computer, not on a hub."

Why is this restriction imposed on the K3 utility?  The KAT500 and KPA500 
utilities work fine through my 10 port hub.

Andy, k3wyc




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