Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Don Wilhelm wrote: Ron, I too am a firm believer in the KISS principle. Too much automation drives me crazy trying to remember what the automation is trying to do for me. Oft times the automation does not do what I want to be done. manual controls forever. This is not a vote against automation and ease of use, but there are times when it is more effective to bypass the automatic controls, engage the brain, and get what one wants accomplished. Automation cannot substitute for individual preferences - that takes 'brain power' - so THINK! 73, Don W3FPR It seems to me with all the feature requests people are looking for a custom radio and wanting the rig to do everything for them. The QSK on the Elecraft rigs is very good the way it is. If you don't want to hear the band between characters why are you working QSK? Why request a feature that could cause serious problems down the road. I guarantee as soon as this change makes it out into firmware the list will be bombarded with posts like Help, my QSK doesn't work anymore, or I want to be able to set the level of ducking manually, .25dB steps would be fine thank you, etc, etc, etc *The more complicated something is to operate the easier it is to screwup, badly.* Name one other HF rig, any price point, which does ducking while in QSK. If you can your probably just used to their lousy implementation of QSK. How about if we have the Elecraft rigs turn the coffee pot on while we're showering in the morning? It's just an extra relay and a small change in the firmware. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
You know Ron, it is actually ironic. I too have been reducing AF gain on my rigs for years but I find I do it more now than I used to and I think I know why. A few years ago I all but abandoned the keyer in favor of the straight key and bug. I'm back to manually generating CW and this manual generation of CW requires more of my brain. I need to hear my sidetone more than I used to. I need to clearly hear so I know when to end a dot or how long the dashes are supposed to be or when to do the next dot or dash. Some day when I'm no longer a beginner on the bug, I may not be so dependent on the sidetone, but for now I need to hear it clearly above the RX output or I'll mess up my sending. So ironically my desire for automation in the form of ducking is driven by my return to manual CW. - Keith N1AS - - SKCC 344c - -Original Message- Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! So I guess it's a good idea whose time has come, just like people on the board don't need to play with the gain control any longer. But I wonder just how automatic our world is becoming? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
It seems to me with all the feature requests people are looking for a custom radio and wanting the rig to do everything for them. ... If you don't want to hear the band between characters why are you working QSK? Why request a feature that could cause serious problems down the road. So, Kevin, I take it your against the idea? :-) Name one other HF rig, any price point, which does ducking while in QSK. I think there are none, which would give Elecraft a differentiator in the market. Adjustable Soft QSK, only from Elecraft! How about if we have the Elecraft rigs turn the coffee pot on while we're showering in the morning? Or we could have them digitally record our voices, scan the band for us, switch from RX to TX between code elements, decode received and transmitted CW, auto tune our antennas or even auto zero-beat a CW signal. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
-Original Message- Isn't this just a matter of setting the monitor sidetone as loud as the AF audio from the signals you are listening to? The MON control is on the front panel, just for that reason. 73, Guy. -- I have MON set to match the AF RX level. That way, when I hit the spot button I hear the sidetone and RX signal at the same levels and can easily tune the signal in. MON = RX level works great during receive. During transmit, I want MON to be louder than the RX AF level. Either MON has to come up or AF has to go down. Turning MON up for TX and back down for RX would be more of a pain that just spinning the AF knob. If I do set MON to be louder than the RX AF level, then the sidetone monitor is too loud for comfort. The bottom line is that I want two different mixes of MON plus AF level, one for RX and one for TX. Good question - Thanks! 73 - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I have to vote with Brian for contest operation. I have a couple threads going on this off the reflector. One thing that may be causing some of the problem re hearing the MON on CW, is that MON does not go up and down with the AF volumn control. I believe some of the hearability issues may vanish if the MON setting established a *RATIO* with the AF control, rather than a constant level into the speaker. This would make the ratio of MON to RX audio independent of the RX gain control of the moment. As it is MON will likely be set below a quiet room irritation level (it does not combine with the received audio when set) which will be a lower level than probably needed because it is heard by itself. Then when time-blended with QSK receive it seems weaker. Should point out to K3 users that (at least with 2.78) if you enable MON and then hit the key, the MON control will be operative while transmitting and one can set the level to match the audio, at least as long as you leave the AF at the same setting. 73, Guy. - Original Message - From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! I believe that most people using QSK are trying to simulate full duplex. I think the step function up and down RX signal level proposed here would sound awful when being keyed. The brain has enough to do without having to accommodate this level change too. Manually turning down the volume is not a good simulation of this step function change.. If this is done, it needs to be run by some testers to see just how bad the level change sounds at various speeds. I doubt anybody would like it. This change would be absolutely useless to me since the main use for QSK is in breaking pileups for the weak ones. It would render the weak ones unreadable. If one wants to fool around with AF gain compensation, I'd like to propose bumping up the AF gain 3db when the subrx is selected and the main/sub rx antenna is shared. That is a real pain. 73 de Brian/K3KO Kevin wrote: Don Wilhelm wrote: Ron, I too am a firm believer in the KISS principle. Too much automation drives me crazy trying to remember what the automation is trying to do for me. Oft times the automation does not do what I want to be done. manual controls forever. This is not a vote against automation and ease of use, but there are times when it is more effective to bypass the automatic controls, engage the brain, and get what one wants accomplished. Automation cannot substitute for individual preferences - that takes 'brain power' - so THINK! 73, Don W3FPR It seems to me with all the feature requests people are looking for a custom radio and wanting the rig to do everything for them. The QSK on the Elecraft rigs is very good the way it is. If you don't want to hear the band between characters why are you working QSK? Why request a feature that could cause serious problems down the road. I guarantee as soon as this change makes it out into firmware the list will be bombarded with posts like Help, my QSK doesn't work anymore, or I want to be able to set the level of ducking manually, .25dB steps would be fine thank you, etc, etc, etc *The more complicated something is to operate the easier it is to screwup, badly.* Name one other HF rig, any price point, which does ducking while in QSK. If you can your probably just used to their lousy implementation of QSK. How about if we have the Elecraft rigs turn the coffee pot on while we're showering in the morning? It's just an extra relay and a small change in the firmware. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I've always advocated having sidetone and SPOT levels be independently adjustable - I sidestep the issue by using CWT rather than SPOT to zero beat a received signal (either auto or manual mode). I then keep MON set for my preferred sidetone level (relatively high, I also use a bug). Bob NW8L On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Darwin, Keith keith.dar...@goodrich.com wrote: During transmit, I want MON to be louder than the RX AF level. Either MON has to come up or AF has to go down. Turning MON up for TX and back down for RX would be more of a pain that just spinning the AF knob. If I do set MON to be louder than the RX AF level, then the sidetone monitor is too loud for comfort. The bottom line is that I want two different mixes of MON plus AF level, one for RX and one for TX. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I think the crux of this problem is one of learning to use QSK. That means being able to send without being disturbed by the other noises and distractions. Practice is the solution. It might take a couple days or a couple months. The reward is worth the effort. This remark isn't meant to dis anybody. What blows my mind is the organist who leads the choir, turns pages, plays the organ, uses foot peddles and sings, seemingly all simultaneously. Clearly he/she wasn't born with such a skill.. Now if we could just figure out how to do QSK RTTY. Easy if you have the subrx many miles away.. 73 de Brian/K3KO Guy Olinger, K2AV wrote: I have to vote with Brian for contest operation. I have a couple threads going on this off the reflector. One thing that may be causing some of the problem re hearing the MON on CW, is that MON does not go up and down with the AF volumn control. I believe some of the hearability issues may vanish if the MON setting established a *RATIO* with the AF control, rather than a constant level into the speaker. This would make the ratio of MON to RX audio independent of the RX gain control of the moment. As it is MON will likely be set below a quiet room irritation level (it does not combine with the received audio when set) which will be a lower level than probably needed because it is heard by itself. Then when time-blended with QSK receive it seems weaker. Should point out to K3 users that (at least with 2.78) if you enable MON and then hit the key, the MON control will be operative while transmitting and one can set the level to match the audio, at least as long as you leave the AF at the same setting. 73, Guy. - Original Message - From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! I believe that most people using QSK are trying to simulate full duplex. I think the step function up and down RX signal level proposed here would sound awful when being keyed. The brain has enough to do without having to accommodate this level change too. Manually turning down the volume is not a good simulation of this step function change.. If this is done, it needs to be run by some testers to see just how bad the level change sounds at various speeds. I doubt anybody would like it. This change would be absolutely useless to me since the main use for QSK is in breaking pileups for the weak ones. It would render the weak ones unreadable. If one wants to fool around with AF gain compensation, I'd like to propose bumping up the AF gain 3db when the subrx is selected and the main/sub rx antenna is shared. That is a real pain. 73 de Brian/K3KO Kevin wrote: Don Wilhelm wrote: Ron, I too am a firm believer in the KISS principle. Too much automation drives me crazy trying to remember what the automation is trying to do for me. Oft times the automation does not do what I want to be done. manual controls forever. This is not a vote against automation and ease of use, but there are times when it is more effective to bypass the automatic controls, engage the brain, and get what one wants accomplished. Automation cannot substitute for individual preferences - that takes 'brain power' - so THINK! 73, Don W3FPR It seems to me with all the feature requests people are looking for a custom radio and wanting the rig to do everything for them. The QSK on the Elecraft rigs is very good the way it is. If you don't want to hear the band between characters why are you working QSK? Why request a feature that could cause serious problems down the road. I guarantee as soon as this change makes it out into firmware the list will be bombarded with posts like Help, my QSK doesn't work anymore, or I want to be able to set the level of ducking manually, .25dB steps would be fine thank you, etc, etc, etc *The more complicated something is to operate the easier it is to screwup, badly.* Name one other HF rig, any price point, which does ducking while in QSK. If you can your probably just used to their lousy implementation of QSK. How about if we have the Elecraft rigs turn the coffee pot on while we're showering in the morning? It's just an extra relay and a small change in the firmware. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Kevin wrote: It seems to me with all the feature requests people are looking for a custom radio and wanting the rig to do everything for them. The QSK on the Elecraft rigs is very good the way it is. If you don't want to hear the band between characters why are you working QSK? 1) The QSK *is* very good, but it is not perfect. There is some clicking when the band is noisy or crowded, and it's most likely caused by relatively complicated timing issues. A slight reduction in audio gain while transmitting -- which I now perform by turning the knob -- eliminates this. In non-casual operation -- contests, pileups, etc., it would be very convenient to have this take place automatically. It would go a long way in reducing operator fatigue in contests. 2) Some operators would like to use QSK but are distracted by background noise, even if the QSK is perfect. This feature would provide another option -- someone called it 'soft QSK' -- between full and semi QSK. It would be smoother than full QSK but still allow the operator to be aware of what's going on in the background and be interrupted if necessary. In order to accommodate these different preferences, the amount of gain reduction would have to be adjustable (but not in steps of 0.25 dB!). I think this is an excellent suggestion, and if -- as I think -- it wouldn't be very hard to implement, it would provide a lot of bang for the buck (that is, Wayne's time). -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
- Original Message - From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! I think the crux of this problem is one of learning to use QSK. True, Brian . For some QSK is an acquired operating taste. So can we get an option CONFIG:DUCKINGON/OFF But then we'll want a special 'beep' sound an option, of course CONFIG:QUACKON/OFF 73 Hank K8DD GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Hey troops, I had an idea last night while in CW QSO with my K3. I've noticed that I always turn the AF gain down when I send CW. I have the side tone volume set to just the right level for the Spot function to work, but when I send CW I want to greatly reduce the distraction from the receiver. I still want to hear it, but not be distracted by it. That got me thinking about ducking. Boy, would it be cool if the K3 would duck the receiver under the CW side tone. I'd want it to be engaged only when sending (not for spot) and I'd like the AF gain reduction to be adjustable through a menu setting. I guess another way to implement this might be to have the side tone affect the AGC so when I send, my RX responds as if it were a real signal and the AGC kicks in to quiet the receiver. In this case, I'd want to set the amount of gain reduction and whether to use Fast or Slow recovery. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Interesting idea Keith! I must admit that I too have often been turning down gain controls while transmitting, not only on the K3, but even more on other rigs. At other times I have been using semi-QSK with a *LONG* timeout, even though the rig including amp can handle full QSK. The reason is that my aging brain finds it harder every year to focus on a task. Sending CW (my favorite mode) requires my 100% attention, and *any* distraction can make me mess up: other stations received within the passband, band noise, fan noise, relay clicks, and even hard edges on the side tone. I am so happy that the K3 doesn't have the relay clicks of my old 1000D, but under some circumstances its QSK/side tone have given me hard edges although that is normally not the case. The K3's selectivity is a great blessing, and although I can copy a single signal among several in a wide passband, I tend to reduce bandwidth during a QSO so that I can transmit without hearing other stations. I recently got a nice headset that blocks external sounds for the purpose of blocking out the vacuum relay clicks and fan noise from my amplifier. Your automatic ducking of the AF gain during transmission would be a welcome option that I would probably end up using sometimes if it were implemented. I guess the ducking as used during full QSK could use a delay equal to the semi-QSK delay setting. For use with semi-QSK perhaps one would want to use a shorter time constant for switching to receive and a separate longer time before receive gets full gain. Another idea: Since much of the distracting noise between characters can be eliminated by using a really narrow bandwidth, how about a new twist on Dual Passband: transmit full QSK with the very narrow receive bandwidth and open up the bandwidth to 500 Hz or so after a delay set by the semi-QSK delay? 73, Erik K7TV - Original Message - From: Darwin, Keith To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Hey troops, I had an idea last night while in CW QSO with my K3. I've noticed that I always turn the AF gain down when I send CW. I have the side tone volume set to just the right level for the Spot function to work, but when I send CW I want to greatly reduce the distraction from the receiver. I still want to hear it, but not be distracted by it. That got me thinking about ducking. Boy, would it be cool if the K3 would duck the receiver under the CW side tone. I'd want it to be engaged only when sending (not for spot) and I'd like the AF gain reduction to be adjustable through a menu setting. I guess another way to implement this might be to have the side tone affect the AGC so when I send, my RX responds as if it were a real signal and the AGC kicks in to quiet the receiver. In this case, I'd want to set the amount of gain reduction and whether to use Fast or Slow recovery. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
What is ducking, as you call it here? 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Ducking is a commercial radio / sound industry technique of attenuating the music when the DJ talks. In the old days, the DJ at the radio station would just pan down the music volume whenever he spoke into the mic. These days, recording studios will use a compressor with a separate trigger (side chain) input. The compressor is set to attenuate 20 dB or so whenever there is something on the trigger input. You run the music through the compressor and feed the voice to the trigger. Then, when you talk, the compressor is activated, forcing the music to duck under the vocals. Close your mouth and a moment later the music rushes back to full volume. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken Kopp Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:56 AM What is ducking, as you call it here? 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I still don't understand this notion. For CW, don't you obtain this effect simply by turning down the sidetone volume? On transmit, receive is already muted. Peter On 1/20/09, Darwin, Keith keith.dar...@goodrich.com wrote: Ducking is a commercial radio / sound industry technique of attenuating the music when the DJ talks. In the old days, the DJ at the radio station would just pan down the music volume whenever he spoke into the mic. These days, recording studios will use a compressor with a separate trigger (side chain) input. The compressor is set to attenuate 20 dB or so whenever there is something on the trigger input. You run the music through the compressor and feed the voice to the trigger. Then, when you talk, the compressor is activated, forcing the music to duck under the vocals. Close your mouth and a moment later the music rushes back to full volume. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken Kopp Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:56 AM What is ducking, as you call it here? 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. Is that any clearer? If not, ask more questions :-) - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- I still don't understand this notion. For CW, don't you obtain this effect simply by turning down the sidetone volume? On transmit, receive is already muted. Peter ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Hi Eric, Not sure I understand what benefit there would be to open up the bandwidth when in QSK mode. Since I most likely will be in QSK mode when calling someone, I would think one would want to maintain the same receive bandwidth as selected before initiating the call. If I need to change bandwidth quickly I use I/II. What am I missing? 73, N2TK, Tony _ From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Erik N Basilier Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:40 AM To: Darwin, Keith; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Another idea: Since much of the distracting noise between characters can be eliminated by using a really narrow bandwidth, how about a new twist on Dual Passband: transmit full QSK with the very narrow receive bandwidth and open up the bandwidth to 500 Hz or so after a delay set by the semi-QSK delay? 73, Erik K7TV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I would definitely view it as an option, and I'd want some configurability to it. But, with this feature, you'd still be able to run full QSK and hear between dots. It may be that really weak stations become harder to hear depending on how much attenuation you choose to apply to the RX signal. I'm thinking I may give it a try with my external compressor. I *think* I can get it all hooked up. We'll see. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- From: N2TK [mailto:tony@verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:55 PM To: 'wayne burdick'; Darwin, Keith Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Hopefully if implemented it is an option. If not using QSK it is fine. But if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is weak while I am sending so that I don't need to keep sending if the other station starts transmitting. 73, N2TK, Tony ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
wayne burdick wrote: Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. I would use this if the amount of compression was adjustable. But cleaning up some of the sidetone artifacts heard when the band is noisy or crowded would go a long way toward obviating the need for this! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Hopefully if implemented it is an option. If not using QSK it is fine. But if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is weak while I am sending so that I don't need to keep sending if the other station starts transmitting. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:57 PM To: Darwin, Keith Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking! Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
On Jan 20, 2009, at 10:54 AM, N2TK wrote: Hopefully if implemented it is an option. Definitely. Wayne If not using QSK it is fine. But if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is weak while I am sending... --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
N2TK wrote: Hopefully if implemented it is an option. If not using QSK it is fine. But if using QSK I want to hear between elements, even if the other station is weak while I am sending so that I don't need to keep sending if the other station starts transmitting. Actually, I think a small amount of gain reduction might go a long way toward reducing operator fatigue in a contest, for example, without seriously impacting the ability to hear a break. What's important is that the amount of gain reduction be adjustable over a wide range to accommodate the above use as well as for the guy who wants it to be a kind of semi-QSK. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I like this ducking idea and would very likely use it. It's sort of a 'soft' QSK. I certainly understand the benefits of full QSK operation, but it's something that I simply cannot get my brain to cooperate with. To me, operating full QSK with other signals present is like trying to count ball bearings with two or three other people shouting random numbers at me. Even without other signals, the rhythmic pulsing of the band noise messes me up. I usually use semi QSK with a 1/2 second or so delay, but perhaps with an option for something between dead silence and operating volume level, I could train my brain to work full QSK. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:56 AM, wayne burdick wrote: Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
I like the idea as well... if one could adjust the audio attenuation to suit one's needs it would help those of us who aren't as proficient as we'd wish and distracted as well. 73, Bill K9YEQ K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods -Original Message- Keith, This is an interesting idea, and I've added it to the firmware wish-list. Thanks. In the interim you might try a non-zero value of CW semi-QSK delay, assuming you don't need full break-in. Wayne N6KR On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote: No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
That is an interesting idea Keith. I've been reducing the gain by hand whenever the band noise is objectionable while sending. Been doing that since I was using a regenerative receiver back in the early 1950's. But I also grabbed the gain control on the board at KVCR when I was spinning platters (the real VINYL platters) when I wanted to talk over the music back in the 50's too. So I guess it's a good idea whose time has come, just like people on the board don't need to play with the gain control any longer. But I wonder just how automatic our world is becoming? A popular theme in sci fi fiction back in the 50's was that the human race would so completely automate things that the computers would see to our physical needs and we'd become disembodied beings floating in an energy field because we no longer needed bodies to manipulate anything ourselves - until the computers decided they didn't need us any longer. Guess I'm archaic. I still enjoy running on the beach, sketching a scene with an old pencil and paper, wiggling my own CW key or turning my own gain controls. I'm definitely one of the ones who is now obsolete I guess... But happily obsolete :-) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. Is that any clearer? If not, ask more questions :-) - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 feature request - I want Ducking!
Ron, I too am a firm believer in the KISS principle. Too much automation drives me crazy trying to remember what the automation is trying to do for me. Oft times the automation does not do what I want to be done. manual controls forever. This is not a vote against automation and ease of use, but there are times when it is more effective to bypass the automatic controls, engage the brain, and get what one wants accomplished. Automation cannot substitute for individual preferences - that takes 'brain power' - so THINK! 73, Don W3FPR Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: That is an interesting idea Keith. I've been reducing the gain by hand whenever the band noise is objectionable while sending. Been doing that since I was using a regenerative receiver back in the early 1950's. But I also grabbed the gain control on the board at KVCR when I was spinning platters (the real VINYL platters) when I wanted to talk over the music back in the 50's too. So I guess it's a good idea whose time has come, just like people on the board don't need to play with the gain control any longer. But I wonder just how automatic our world is becoming? A popular theme in sci fi fiction back in the 50's was that the human race would so completely automate things that the computers would see to our physical needs and we'd become disembodied beings floating in an energy field because we no longer needed bodies to manipulate anything ourselves - until the computers decided they didn't need us any longer. Guess I'm archaic. I still enjoy running on the beach, sketching a scene with an old pencil and paper, wiggling my own CW key or turning my own gain controls. I'm definitely one of the ones who is now obsolete I guess... But happily obsolete :-) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- No, the manual way to achieve this effect is to turn down the AF gain while you're transmitting. Sidetone is still there nice loud but the RX audio that you hear between elements is reduced. When you're done sending, you reach for the AF gain and turn it back up to the normal listening level. Now, imagine it was automatic. As soon as you send, the K3 turns AF gain down and leaves it down until a second or so after you finish sending, then it turns it back up to where it was. This way, while you're sending, the AF signal that you hear between dots dashes is quieter than when you're just listening. Is that any clearer? If not, ask more questions :-) - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.10/1904 - Release Date: 1/20/2009 7:49 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
