Re: [Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Don, Harry, and All, As usual, Don has given a very cogent response to the question at hand. One thing I would add is that I think much of the problem conversation you see here on the reflector is based more on personal preferences. In other words, some folks like certain characteristics or features, and they know that there is a decent chance they can get a firmware adjustment which will match their particular preference. I think much of the DSP discussion has been along that line. There have been improvements to be sure, but there have been adjustments as well. I have a field test version of the K2 as well, and if I were to load it up completely, it would have a cost approaching a basic K3, which comes stock with most of the features I would be adding to the K2. That would be a viable option in my case, since I also use my K2 differently than I use my K3. However, if I were only going to have one radio, it would clearly be the K3. Most importantly, the K3 has considerable available space in its firmware for further upgrading, while the K2 has been pretty much maxed out. Also, a small correction possibly to Don's comparison of K2's sold vs. K3's sold. If I'm not mistaken, the K3 really isn't 3 years old yet--at least not as far as actual sales (but perhaps he is speaking from the standpoint of when each rig was first announced). My K3 is #96, and I got it in November of 2007, which I think was some 3 or 4 months after they first started shipping. A close friend of mine nearby, who I think was substantially motivated by seeing and tinkering with my K3, just received his K3 (#3837) last Thursday. He is extremely happy with his new radio, and understandably so. The point is that there are nearly 4000 K3's out there, and after only a little more than 2 1/2 years from when they first started shipping. So, at approximately the 3 year mark, you have 4 times (not 3 times) as many K3 owners as there were K2 owners, and most of them realize that if the ask, they stand a very good chance of having their personal preferences catered to. I don't think there is another radio out there that is getting as much attention from the designers in this fashion. I suppose radios like the Flex's have a similar capability, but I don't think those radios are being massaged to the same degree. Certainly the Orions aren't, and they too have some capability for this. Nevertheless, a K2 may indeed be a better choice for some, depending on their operating habits and preferences. It's a wonderful radio, and not even close to being obsolete as some have suggested. It's just that you will be much more limited going forward, unless Elecraft comes up with some way of opening up the K2's potential even further. I wouldn't put it past them to do this either! Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com To: harry latterman harrylatter...@yahoo.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg Harry, I have both the K2 and the K3 - the K2 does not see use in the shack, but rests at the workbench and is my transceiver of choice for portable operation. First let me try to shed some light on the number of K3 questions/problems as compared with the K2 by stating that when the K2 was only 3 years old, there were something like 1000 of them sold by that time, and this reflector was full of K2 questions/problems everyday. By comparison, the K3 has sold over 3 times that number, so there are 3 times the number of new users everyday with questions, comments, and problems (some perceived, some real). Note that many of the problems are answered by telling the owner how to accomplish whatever he was trying to do - you have to read both the question and the response to determine that rather than just counting the number of posts. The same was true in the earlier days of the K2. The K2 is a mature product, and many of the owners have had them for a while, so their questions have been answered some time ago. Even though it is mature, I expect mine to continue to function properly for another 20 to 30 years - and I have one of the original Field Test K2s. After that 20 to 30 years, I might not care anymore, it will be left to my heirs. If one compares the cost of a basic K3/100 with the cost of a loaded K2/100 kit from Elecraft, if the dollar value were the only thing considered, the buyer would likely opt for the K3 - most all the function offered by the basic K3/100 would require most all the options be installed in the K2/100 - and the K2 would not have the DSP flexibility of the K3, nor the possibility of adding the SubRX later. The performance of the K2 and the K3 is very good (check the Sherwood listings), but the K3 is better - whether one's operating habits warrant the K3 is entirely a different question, only the operator himself
[Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
I have a wonderful K2/100 and yes have eyed th K3 as so many other has. The new K3 design is clean, filters options are mind boggling, seems to like digital ... But and this is a big BUT for me is cost vers any really added contacts. Or cost per possible, but unlikely contacts missed. By the time all the eye candy and ear candy is added you have one really expenisive radio. Way more the a fully loaded K2 with has some impressive specs...very impressive by a lot of standards. Plus I am really wondering about the K3 issues. Is it my imagination or are K3 question and issues a bit more then K2 issues? My in box since I signed up is buldging with K3 questions and problems. If it were not for the occational K2 question you would think this was a K3 site. Don't get me wrong Elecraft is one fantastic company. I built and used a K1/4 and used it for a while and it was FUN and very inpressive. Very! I am a cheater in that I traded a 706mkII+ a Ft-817 for the K2/100 I have now instead of building it, only becasue the person that listed it decided that the trade was better then what he was asking for it and my trade fit his needs. The chances of that happening again a pretty slim. If he had not then sometime later this year I probably would have had to make a painful choice. A fully loaded K2/100 or a strip down K3/10 and who knows how long before I could afford to get it up to the level I really wanted. But that is my financial problem and like many today price vers performance vers reliablity are all a factor. So what is the opion of those who have both or had the K2 and now the K3? Which is the better value for the budget minded and for those on a budget what is the cost of a K3/100 that would meet most people needs. Not the hard core contester, they are a different breed. But the everyday ham, who likes to take it with him/her and/or have a great home station. Also why is there so many K3 problems listed at this stage of the game? That is the part that makes me glad I have a K2 and might wait a very long time before I get a K3. Thanks for you time and this great board. 73 Harry K7ZOV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Harry, Of course there are lots of K3-related postings and yes, questions. It's Elecraft's latest and greatest, and the center of attention. I wasn't here during the equivalent time of the K2, but I expect the reflector then was dominated with K2 questions and problems. If you read carefully, many / most of the postings really come down to being opinions of the poster. Not many relate to actual problems with the K3, but rather with the owner's view of what -he- thinks the radio should be. If his particular want isn't met, it may be viewed a problem. You'll not find another company that deals with real problems faster. I have a K2 (#5665) and it's a wonderful radio that met virtually all of my real world operating needs for several years. I wouldn't think of parting with it. My K3's just more fun. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Harry, I have both the K2 and the K3 - the K2 does not see use in the shack, but rests at the workbench and is my transceiver of choice for portable operation. First let me try to shed some light on the number of K3 questions/problems as compared with the K2 by stating that when the K2 was only 3 years old, there were something like 1000 of them sold by that time, and this reflector was full of K2 questions/problems everyday. By comparison, the K3 has sold over 3 times that number, so there are 3 times the number of new users everyday with questions, comments, and problems (some perceived, some real). Note that many of the problems are answered by telling the owner how to accomplish whatever he was trying to do - you have to read both the question and the response to determine that rather than just counting the number of posts. The same was true in the earlier days of the K2. The K2 is a mature product, and many of the owners have had them for a while, so their questions have been answered some time ago. Even though it is mature, I expect mine to continue to function properly for another 20 to 30 years - and I have one of the original Field Test K2s. After that 20 to 30 years, I might not care anymore, it will be left to my heirs. If one compares the cost of a basic K3/100 with the cost of a loaded K2/100 kit from Elecraft, if the dollar value were the only thing considered, the buyer would likely opt for the K3 - most all the function offered by the basic K3/100 would require most all the options be installed in the K2/100 - and the K2 would not have the DSP flexibility of the K3, nor the possibility of adding the SubRX later. The performance of the K2 and the K3 is very good (check the Sherwood listings), but the K3 is better - whether one's operating habits warrant the K3 is entirely a different question, only the operator himself can create that answer. Since you already have the K2/100, then the cost comparison does not work for you - you will have to evaluate how much you could get for your K2 should you sell it and deal with the price difference between your existing K2 and a K3. In other words, I believe it is deceiving to look at the reflector traffic in comparing questions/problems between the K2 and the K3. 73, Don W3FPR harry latterman wrote: I have a wonderful K2/100 and yes have eyed th K3 as so many other has. The new K3 design is clean, filters options are mind boggling, seems to like digital ... But and this is a big BUT for me is cost vers any really added contacts. Or cost per possible, but unlikely contacts missed. By the time all the eye candy and ear candy is added you have one really expenisive radio. Way more the a fully loaded K2 with has some impressive specs...very impressive by a lot of standards. Plus I am really wondering about the K3 issues. Is it my imagination or are K3 question and issues a bit more then K2 issues? My in box since I signed up is buldging with K3 questions and problems. If it were not for the occational K2 question you would think this was a K3 site. Don't get me wrong Elecraft is one fantastic company. I built and used a K1/4 and used it for a while and it was FUN and very inpressive. Very! I am a cheater in that I traded a 706mkII+ a Ft-817 for the K2/100 I have now instead of building it, only becasue the person that listed it decided that the trade was better then what he was asking for it and my trade fit his needs. The chances of that happening again a pretty slim. If he had not then sometime later this year I probably would have had to make a painful choice. A fully loaded K2/100 or a strip down K3/10 and who knows how long before I could afford to get it up to the level I really wanted. But that is my financial problem and like many today price vers performance vers reliablity are all a factor. So what is the opion of those who have both or had the K2 and now the K3? Which is the better value for the budget minded and for those on a budget what is the cost of a K3/100 that would meet most people needs. Not the hard core contester, they are a different breed. But the everyday ham, who likes to take it with him/her and/or have a great home station. Also why is there so many K3 problems listed at this stage of the game? That is the part that makes me glad I have a K2 and might wait a very long time before I get a K3. Thanks for you time and this great board. 73 Harry K7ZOV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -
[Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Is it worth it can be answered from at least two different approaches: 1. Are you interested in PERFORMANCE and if so, to what degree. Your answer depends on what type of operating you do. Do you do a lot of contesting? Are you a serious DXer? Do you work DX on Top Band? Do you operate esoteric modes such as ESSB? Do you need a radio with diversity reception (optional)? How about a radio that covers 160 - 2 in a single box? Is being able to clear the RIT/XIT with the push of a button important? If your answer to any of these is YES, then you may want the K3. If you are a casual operator who likes to makes Q's on a band w/o much QRM and turns the rig off if the signal are weak because you want arm-chair copy, QSY away from QRM because of low tolerance, etc., then the answer may be no. 2. If you simply need to own the best performing rig available irrespective of how you operate, then the K3 is for you. Failing the YES answer to the above, I'd stick with the K2/100 (I have two K3s and 1 K2). The other BIG consideration (question) for you is, Are you comfortable operating QRP after having operated QRO (100 watts). There IS a BIG difference! This is NOT a is it worth it question, but a can you adapt to it question. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Note: The first time I sent this, it didn't seem to go out properly. My apologies in advance if 2 copies show up. Hi Harry, Is it my imagination or are K3 question and issues a bit more then K2 issues? My in box since I signed up is buldging with K3 questions and problems. ... Also why is there so many K3 problems listed at this stage of the game? Perhaps because the K2 has been out for over 10 years and the K3 has been out for only 2. Do you suppose you would have been asking why are there so many questions about the K2? back in 2001? How much K3 traffic will be on the reflector in 2018? Also, I think a more demanding class of operator is using the K3 in more demanding situations than the K2. As you mentioned, some of them are a different breed. What are the current problems that you perceive with the K3 that do not ultimately come down to operator preference? So what is the opion of those who have both or had the K2 and now the K3? Which is the better value for the budget minded and for those on a budget what is the cost of a K3/100 that would meet most people needs. I think the basic K3/100 with the stock 2.7 kHz roofing filter would meet most average ham's needs for $1899.95. That gives you everything that a fully loaded K2/100 gives you and then some. I have both a K2/10 and a K3/100. I find the K3 has a noticeably better receiver, is much easier to operate, and has features that make my day-to-day operation much more pleasant. The difference in cost between a fully loaded K2/100 and a stripped down K3/100 is $270.30 if I've done my math correctly. In my opinion the extras the K3 gives you for that $270.30 are well worth the money. The K2 is a great rig if you simply can't afford or can live without the extra features and performance that the K3 gives you. I started out with a pretty basic K2 and added to it over the years as budget permitted (and I'm doing the same with the K3.) I still use my K2 for portable/field work and as a backup rig, but I enjoy using the K3 more. Asking whether a K3 will get you more contacts than a K2 is like asking if a basic economy car will get you more places than a luxury car. Both will get you where you want to go, but the experience you have along the way might be quite different. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:39 PM, harry latterman wrote: [...snip...] 73 Harry K7ZOV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Hi Harry, Is it my imagination or are K3 question and issues a bit more then K2 issues? My in box since I signed up is buldging with K3 questions and problems. ... Also why is there so many K3 problems listed at this stage of the game? Perhaps because the K2 has been out for over 10 years and the K3 has been out for only 2. Do you suppose you would have been asking why are there so many questions about the K2? back in 2001? How much K3 traffic will be on the reflector in 2018? Also, I think a more demanding class of operator is using the K3 in more demanding situations than the K2. As you mentioned, some of them are a different breed. What are the current problems that you perceive with the K3 that do not ultimately come down to operator preference? So what is the opion of those who have both or had the K2 and now the K3? Which is the better value for the budget minded and for those on a budget what is the cost of a K3/100 that would meet most people needs. I think the basic K3/100 with the stock 2.7 kHz roofing filter would meet most average ham's needs for $1899.95. That gives you everything that a fully loaded K2/100 gives you and then some. I have both a K2/10 and a K3/100. I find the K3 has a noticeably better receiver, is much easier to operate, and has features that make my day-to-day operation much more pleasant. The difference in cost between a fully loaded K2/100 and a stripped down K3/100 is $270.30 if I've done my math correctly. In my opinion the extras the K3 gives you for that $270.30 are well worth the money. The K2 is a great rig if you simply can't afford or can live without the extra features and performance that the K3 gives you. I started out with a pretty basic K2 and added to it over the years as budget permitted (and I'm doing the same with the K3.) I still use my K2 for portable/field work and as a backup rig, but I enjoy using the K3 more. Asking whether a K3 will get you more contacts than a K2 is like asking if a basic economy car will get you more places than a luxury car. Both will get you where you want to go, but the experience you have along the way might be quite different. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:39 PM, harry latterman wrote: I have a wonderful K2/100 and yes have eyed th K3 as so many other has. The new K3 design is clean, filters options are mind boggling, seems to like digital ... But and this is a big BUT for me is cost vers any really added contacts. Or cost per possible, but unlikely contacts missed. By the time all the eye candy and ear candy is added you have one really expenisive radio. Way more the a fully loaded K2 with has some impressive specs...very impressive by a lot of standards. Plus I am really wondering about the K3 issues. Is it my imagination or are K3 question and issues a bit more then K2 issues? My in box since I signed up is buldging with K3 questions and problems. If it were not for the occational K2 question you would think this was a K3 site. Don't get me wrong Elecraft is one fantastic company. I built and used a K1/4 and used it for a while and it was FUN and very inpressive. Very! I am a cheater in that I traded a 706mkII+ a Ft-817 for the K2/100 I have now instead of building it, only becasue the person that listed it decided that the trade was better then what he was asking for it and my trade fit his needs. The chances of that happening again a pretty slim. If he had not then sometime later this year I probably would have had to make a painful choice. A fully loaded K2/100 or a strip down K3/10 and who knows how long before I could afford to get it up to the level I really wanted. But that is my financial problem and like many today price vers performance vers reliablity are all a factor. So what is the opion of those who have both or had the K2 and now the K3? Which is the better value for the budget minded and for those on a budget what is the cost of a K3/100 that would meet most people needs. Not the hard core contester, they are a different breed. But the everyday ham, who likes to take it with him/her and/ or have a great home station. Also why is there so many K3 problems listed at this stage of the game? That is the part that makes me glad I have a K2 and might wait a very long time before I get a K3. Thanks for you time and this great board. 73 Harry K7ZOV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vers K2 questions that I keep seeimg
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I am sure that at one time the K2 must have had more then it's share of hits on this site. The K3 will probably be in my future although I have known 2 people that have owned them and traded them off. But then again they went through a number of radios before they stopped. If one radio was the ultimate then everyone else would go out of business. Also it was noted that it depends on what the radio is doing and the operator. My radios either sit for months or worked hard. I like qrp. I use it when in my work room with a hunk of wire, 4:1, ground and extrenal ATU. Mostly CW but I own a NUE-PSK 31 which is a stand alone psk/rtty modem (look ma no computer). I plan on making a cable and using that with the K2 shortly. My CW is yuck, but you can find my yuck on the QRS 40 meter freq (7.110 - 7.116 mhz) on and off during the evenings, and the CW quality if the K2 is nothing short of great. And I do SSB on 40, 20, 18 and 15 meters. Like to make contacts and rag chew if I can. I do contests just to make contacts and give other points. Not yet into serious radiosport. So the basic K2 works for me at home or when I go camping. The /100 part is more when I am on my good antenna and the band is hot (luke warm is also great). So changing power suppies and cranking it up is my second option. Somehow have 100 mw to 100 watts in the same small lightweight box, with a great reciever fits my needs. So do I need a K3? Only time will tell. The K2 is not my only radio. I have a classic IC-756 and a hot new Icom IC-7200 field radio which is a digital dream radio to use. I really believe in the days, weeks, months and years to come the K2 will probably be closer to me and used more often. I really do not feel I need the extra feature of the K3 at this time. If I want another DSP option I can get it for the K2, but the analog AF filter is quite impressive. It should be noted that my impression of Elecraft is that they are nothing short of fantastic.. I did at one time make a K1/4 and it was one great radio. The K2 stacks up to and in some case exceeds my other two radios and that includes the IC-7200 which has the guts of the IC-7000 and PROIII 32 bit IF DSP and 24 bit A/D - D/A, and smaller and lighter to boot. I think if money was not an issue and I was a hard core conterster I would have to have a K3, but I am a casual user who likes to chase dx and talk to anyone. I like low power and 100 watts to me is high power. My hearing is going to sound quality is a major factor and the K2/100 internal speaker is so-so, but an external or headset and the radio real works for me. So thank you one and all for the feedback. It is greatly appreciated. Hope I will catch you all on the air someday. 73, have a great week and happy dxing to one and all Harry K7ZOV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
