Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
Thank You Guy I could not agree more with your statement, right on the point. 73, Fred/N0AZZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:57 PM To: vk4tux Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version Beta firmware should not be installable by accident. Should have to go somewhere else on purpose, get it on purpose and install it quite on purpose. Same thing for retrograde firmware. Needing to go backward on an Elecraft firmware release is really very rare. Your particular issue has two sides to it as I have seen on the reflector, and maybe a dozen or two or three out of 6000+ owners going back to 4.48. That is not at all to diminish the complaints, but one needs to consider the vast majority when putting up possibilities in the main utility program. Mostly the utility has to be designed for new builders and newbie owners. I note that via the reflector copies of 4.48 were very quickly available. You guys figured it out and fixed it quite quickly. You did not appear to really need anything else to get squared to your satisfaction. Try that with other brands. Keep the utility safe for newbies and non-technical types. 73, Guy. On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:01 PM, vk4tux vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: I would assume the default K3Util firmware lookup would point to; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/ Could an option in K3Util provide old and beta defaults with a menu select, such that to revert firmware the k3Util would look at; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/old/ or to try beta; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ Like a user repository select function in K3Util, giving the user quick easy selection of older, current or beta firmware. The programming change should be simple to enable deault ftp url links to menu description. Is this a good idea for simplicity? Some op's find the download , unzip then manual browsing for other than current versions, etc a bit brainswelling. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p 7561442.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
I guess it seems to be a generally bad idea with no support, but it won't be hard for me to make up a selectable redirect gui script to work with it either in Linux or windows, so I will just do that. EOT Adrian ... vk4tux -Original Message- From: Fred Smith [mailto:m...@mo-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2012 4:46 PM To: 'Guy Olinger K2AV'; 'vk4tux' Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version Thank You Guy I could not agree more with your statement, right on the point. 73, Fred/N0AZZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:57 PM To: vk4tux Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version Beta firmware should not be installable by accident. Should have to go somewhere else on purpose, get it on purpose and install it quite on purpose. Same thing for retrograde firmware. Needing to go backward on an Elecraft firmware release is really very rare. Your particular issue has two sides to it as I have seen on the reflector, and maybe a dozen or two or three out of 6000+ owners going back to 4.48. That is not at all to diminish the complaints, but one needs to consider the vast majority when putting up possibilities in the main utility program. Mostly the utility has to be designed for new builders and newbie owners. I note that via the reflector copies of 4.48 were very quickly available. You guys figured it out and fixed it quite quickly. You did not appear to really need anything else to get squared to your satisfaction. Try that with other brands. Keep the utility safe for newbies and non-technical types. 73, Guy. On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:01 PM, vk4tux vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: I would assume the default K3Util firmware lookup would point to; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/ Could an option in K3Util provide old and beta defaults with a menu select, such that to revert firmware the k3Util would look at; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/old/ or to try beta; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ Like a user repository select function in K3Util, giving the user quick easy selection of older, current or beta firmware. The programming change should be simple to enable deault ftp url links to menu description. Is this a good idea for simplicity? Some op's find the download , unzip then manual browsing for other than current versions, etc a bit brainswelling. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p 7561442.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
*I have watched the thread since it appeared and I do concur with Adrian's thinking that if an Advanced menu was to be added then I see no issue for the newer owners whether they be new to Elecraft or the hobby. Protecting the 'innocent' should not mean standing in the way of progress:-) Mine is an opinion only, and it IS mine alone perhaps, but nonetheless, I think Adrian's idea has merit. 73's and goodnight all... * On 22 August 2012 17:10, Adrian vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: I guess it seems to be a generally bad idea with no support, but it won't be hard for me to make up a selectable redirect gui script to work with it either in Linux or windows, so I will just do that. EOT Adrian ... vk4tux -Original Message- From: Fred Smith [mailto:m...@mo-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2012 4:46 PM To: 'Guy Olinger K2AV'; 'vk4tux' Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version Thank You Guy I could not agree more with your statement, right on the point. 73, Fred/N0AZZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:57 PM To: vk4tux Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version Beta firmware should not be installable by accident. Should have to go somewhere else on purpose, get it on purpose and install it quite on purpose. Same thing for retrograde firmware. Needing to go backward on an Elecraft firmware release is really very rare. Your particular issue has two sides to it as I have seen on the reflector, and maybe a dozen or two or three out of 6000+ owners going back to 4.48. That is not at all to diminish the complaints, but one needs to consider the vast majority when putting up possibilities in the main utility program. Mostly the utility has to be designed for new builders and newbie owners. I note that via the reflector copies of 4.48 were very quickly available. You guys figured it out and fixed it quite quickly. You did not appear to really need anything else to get squared to your satisfaction. Try that with other brands. Keep the utility safe for newbies and non-technical types. 73, Guy. On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:01 PM, vk4tux vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: I would assume the default K3Util firmware lookup would point to; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/ Could an option in K3Util provide old and beta defaults with a menu select, such that to revert firmware the k3Util would look at; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/old/ or to try beta; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ Like a user repository select function in K3Util, giving the user quick easy selection of older, current or beta firmware. The programming change should be simple to enable deault ftp url links to menu description. Is this a good idea for simplicity? Some op's find the download , unzip then manual browsing for other than current versions, etc a bit brainswelling. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p 7561442.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *Gary* *Start the day off slow, then taper off.* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
I agree with Dick on this one as well. Guy put it well in his reply- Installing beta firmware should be a very deliberate process, taken on by the user who knows he is trying something that is perhaps not ready for prime time. The process for loading beta firmware, including downloading files, unpacking and installing is all spelled out. Perhaps this procedure could be re-written to make it clearer for some, but it has always been fine for me. As for this comment: ~If you keep non-technical types wrapped up in cotton wool, then how will they ever become technical or real hams? My answer would be, by encouraging them to learn how things work, such as the downloading and installing of trial firmware to their radio, instead of spoon-feeding the process behind an automated menu. I think the current system of firmware distribution works well. Those who are interested in becoming early adopters, with all the potential risks and benefits, would be better served by having them learn how to do it properly. I do not believe the current process is excessively burdensome. The skills required are basic computer skills. Of course, it's only my opinion. FWIW es 73, Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
Lets end this thread at this time. We purposely zip the beta releases to prevent the code from being super easy to download or mistakenly downloaded. This is also to prevent people loading it thinking it is a normal release. Thanks for the suggestions, but we will be leaving it as is for now. (We're really busy on other projects too :-) 73, Eric www.elecraft.com _..._ On Aug 22, 2012, at 7:45 AM, Bruce Beford bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.net wrote: I agree with Dick on this one as well. Guy put it well in his reply- Installing beta firmware should be a very deliberate process, taken on by the user who knows he is trying something that is perhaps not ready for prime time. The process for loading beta firmware, including downloading files, unpacking and installing is all spelled out. Perhaps this procedure could be re-written to make it clearer for some, but it has always been fine for me. As for this comment: ~If you keep non-technical types wrapped up in cotton wool, then how will they ever become technical or real hams? My answer would be, by encouraging them to learn how things work, such as the downloading and installing of trial firmware to their radio, instead of spoon-feeding the process behind an automated menu. I think the current system of firmware distribution works well. Those who are interested in becoming early adopters, with all the potential risks and benefits, would be better served by having them learn how to do it properly. I do not believe the current process is excessively burdensome. The skills required are basic computer skills. Of course, it's only my opinion. FWIW es 73, Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
I would assume the default K3Util firmware lookup would point to; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/ Could an option in K3Util provide old and beta defaults with a menu select, such that to revert firmware the k3Util would look at; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/old/ or to try beta; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ Like a user repository select function in K3Util, giving the user quick easy selection of older, current or beta firmware. The programming change should be simple to enable deault ftp url links to menu description. Is this a good idea for simplicity? Some op's find the download , unzip then manual browsing for other than current versions, etc a bit brainswelling. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p7561442.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
Beta firmware should not be installable by accident. Should have to go somewhere else on purpose, get it on purpose and install it quite on purpose. Same thing for retrograde firmware. Needing to go backward on an Elecraft firmware release is really very rare. Your particular issue has two sides to it as I have seen on the reflector, and maybe a dozen or two or three out of 6000+ owners going back to 4.48. That is not at all to diminish the complaints, but one needs to consider the vast majority when putting up possibilities in the main utility program. Mostly the utility has to be designed for new builders and newbie owners. I note that via the reflector copies of 4.48 were very quickly available. You guys figured it out and fixed it quite quickly. You did not appear to really need anything else to get squared to your satisfaction. Try that with other brands. Keep the utility safe for newbies and non-technical types. 73, Guy. On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:01 PM, vk4tux vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: I would assume the default K3Util firmware lookup would point to; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/ Could an option in K3Util provide old and beta defaults with a menu select, such that to revert firmware the k3Util would look at; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/old/ or to try beta; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ Like a user repository select function in K3Util, giving the user quick easy selection of older, current or beta firmware. The programming change should be simple to enable deault ftp url links to menu description. Is this a good idea for simplicity? Some op's find the download , unzip then manual browsing for other than current versions, etc a bit brainswelling. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p7561442.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
Answered Inline; Beta firmware should not be installable by accident. Should have to go somewhere else on purpose, get it on purpose and install it quite on purpose. Same thing for retrograde firmware. ~The current firmware would remain the startup default and beta or old would need to be user selected from K3Util advanced submenu, by the user. Needing to go backward on an Elecraft firmware release is really very rare. ~Not lately Your particular issue has two sides to it as I have seen on the reflector, and maybe a dozen or two or three out of 6000+ owners going back to 4.48. That is not at all to diminish the complaints, but one needs to consider the vast majority when putting up possibilities in the main utility program. Mostly the utility has to be designed for new builders and newbie owners. ~The k3Utility should be designed for any K3 owner. The user selects could be a submenu of the advanced menu. Anytime new firmware does not meet expectations, the user should be able to easily revert back. I note that via the reflector copies of 4.48 were very quickly available. You guys figured it out and fixed it quite quickly. You did not appear to really need anything else to get squared to your satisfaction. Try that with other brands. Keep the utility safe for newbies and non-technical types. ~If there is nothing in the ftp beta folder then it can not be selected. Elecraft obviously decide when a beta is ready for general release beyond a test group and control what is their server. ~#Reverting to older software without downloading, unzipping and browse located to load etc is a nice convenience. ~I have done it like # many times, and is of no issue to me however I would be surprised if the general K3 user would not appreciate the feature (which needs to be selected) of reverting back or trying beta software that is available for download otherwise at Elecrafts discretion decision to have it available. ~If you keep non-technical types wrapped up in cotton wool, then how will they ever become technical or real hams? ~Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p7561448.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
Dick On Aug 21, 2012, at 6:01 PM, vk4tux vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: I would assume the default K3Util firmware lookup would point to; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/ Could an option in K3Util provide old and beta defaults with a menu select, such that to revert firmware the k3Util would look at; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/old/ or to try beta; ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ Like a user repository select function in K3Util, giving the user quick easy selection of older, current or beta firmware. The programming change should be simple to enable deault ftp url links to menu description. Is this a good idea for simplicity? Some op's find the download , unzip then manual browsing for other than current versions, etc a bit brainswelling. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p7561442.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3Util Firmware version
I'm reluctant to go this way. We can't do this without making the choices more daunting for those customers that choose not to be early adopters. The unzip process for beta firmware is written up on our web site. Dick, K6KR On Aug 21, 2012, at 7:27 PM, vk4tux vk4...@bigpond.com wrote: Answered Inline; Beta firmware should not be installable by accident. Should have to go somewhere else on purpose, get it on purpose and install it quite on purpose. Same thing for retrograde firmware. ~The current firmware would remain the startup default and beta or old would need to be user selected from K3Util advanced submenu, by the user. Needing to go backward on an Elecraft firmware release is really very rare. ~Not lately Your particular issue has two sides to it as I have seen on the reflector, and maybe a dozen or two or three out of 6000+ owners going back to 4.48. That is not at all to diminish the complaints, but one needs to consider the vast majority when putting up possibilities in the main utility program. Mostly the utility has to be designed for new builders and newbie owners. ~The k3Utility should be designed for any K3 owner. The user selects could be a submenu of the advanced menu. Anytime new firmware does not meet expectations, the user should be able to easily revert back. I note that via the reflector copies of 4.48 were very quickly available. You guys figured it out and fixed it quite quickly. You did not appear to really need anything else to get squared to your satisfaction. Try that with other brands. Keep the utility safe for newbies and non-technical types. ~If there is nothing in the ftp beta folder then it can not be selected. Elecraft obviously decide when a beta is ready for general release beyond a test group and control what is their server. ~#Reverting to older software without downloading, unzipping and browse located to load etc is a nice convenience. ~I have done it like # many times, and is of no issue to me however I would be surprised if the general K3 user would not appreciate the feature (which needs to be selected) of reverting back or trying beta software that is available for download otherwise at Elecrafts discretion decision to have it available. ~If you keep non-technical types wrapped up in cotton wool, then how will they ever become technical or real hams? ~Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3Util-version-history-tp5946045p7561448.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
