Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Internal battery issue

[Anthony de Maillet]

Thanks Mark and Matt.  I’ll report back when I know more!

Tony


> On 10 Apr 2017, at 18:14, Mark Petiford via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Tony,
> Your voltages are NOT normal.  Matt's suggestions are good ones.  You should 
> also, as soon as possible, take the cells out of the holder and do two things:
> 1.  Inspect each cell for damage to the plastic cover that is around each 
> cell.  Look around the positive terminal for damage that plastic cover.  That 
> can cause a short in that cell.  Check the side of each cell for damage 
> caused by a battery holder attach screw that is too long.  If the builder 
> used the wrong screw when attaching the holder, it can extend beyond the 
> surface of the battery holder and damage the plastic causing a short to 
> ground.  Elecraft issued and alert to check the holder for the proper screw 
> length.  I can't emphasize enough that damage to the plastic covering is 
> unacceptable.  I don't think that this is the most likely cause since the 
> cells return to a reasonable voltage while resting.
> 2.  Measure the voltage of each cell.  After charging and resting for an hour 
> or so, they should all be within about 0.1 volt of each other.  A little more 
> variation is OK for cells that are partially discharged.  Be careful when 
> probing the positive terminal.  It is easy to short the cell if the plastic 
> cover does not extend completely around the top of the cell.  That falls 
> under item 1 above.
> 
> These are good steps to take a few times per year.  Matt's suggestion of 
> looking at the current draw is important.  That should help isolate the 
> source (radio vs. cells) of the problem.  
> 
> It is possible that the wrong screws were used somewhere during the radio's 
> build and one extends too far causing a short in the supply.  Elecraft 
> supplies all the proper screws for the job, but it is easy to put the wrong 
> one in the wrong place.  I don't know what your situation is, but you may 
> want to consider returning the radio to the builder for repair.
> 
> FYI, I have never seen a bad Eneloops from the factory, but it is possible.   
> 
>On Monday, April 10, 2017 7:54 AM, Matt Zilmer  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> You may have a bad cell in your Eneloops.  Try monitoring the current 
> drain while discharging the battery.  At idle, it should be200 mA or 
> less.  If it's much more than that, there may be a different problem 
> with the KX3 itself. 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Internal battery issue

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

Oops!  Pressed SEND before signing my previous e-mail.
Mark, 
KE6BB
 

On Monday, April 10, 2017 10:14 AM, Mark Petiford  
wrote:
 

 Tony,
Your voltages are NOT normal.  Matt's suggestions are good ones.  You should 
also, as soon as possible, take the cells out of the holder and do two things:


   
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Internal battery issue

[Mark Petiford via Elecraft]

Tony,
Your voltages are NOT normal.  Matt's suggestions are good ones.  You should 
also, as soon as possible, take the cells out of the holder and do two things:
1.  Inspect each cell for damage to the plastic cover that is around each cell. 
 Look around the positive terminal for damage that plastic cover.  That can 
cause a short in that cell.  Check the side of each cell for damage caused by a 
battery holder attach screw that is too long.  If the builder used the wrong 
screw when attaching the holder, it can extend beyond the surface of the 
battery holder and damage the plastic causing a short to ground.  Elecraft 
issued and alert to check the holder for the proper screw length.  I can't 
emphasize enough that damage to the plastic covering is unacceptable.  I don't 
think that this is the most likely cause since the cells return to a reasonable 
voltage while resting.
2.  Measure the voltage of each cell.  After charging and resting for an hour 
or so, they should all be within about 0.1 volt of each other.  A little more 
variation is OK for cells that are partially discharged.  Be careful when 
probing the positive terminal.  It is easy to short the cell if the plastic 
cover does not extend completely around the top of the cell.  That falls under 
item 1 above.

These are good steps to take a few times per year.  Matt's suggestion of 
looking at the current draw is important.  That should help isolate the source 
(radio vs. cells) of the problem.  

It is possible that the wrong screws were used somewhere during the radio's 
build and one extends too far causing a short in the supply.  Elecraft supplies 
all the proper screws for the job, but it is easy to put the wrong one in the 
wrong place.  I don't know what your situation is, but you may want to consider 
returning the radio to the builder for repair.

FYI, I have never seen a bad Eneloops from the factory, but it is possible.   

On Monday, April 10, 2017 7:54 AM, Matt Zilmer  
wrote:
 

 You may have a bad cell in your Eneloops.  Try monitoring the current 
drain while discharging the battery.  At idle, it should be200 mA or 
less.  If it's much more than that, there may be a different problem 
with the KX3 itself. 

   
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Internal battery issue

[Matt Zilmer]

You may have a bad cell in your Eneloops.  Try monitoring the current 
drain while discharging the battery.  At idle, it should be200 mA or 
less.  If it's much more than that, there may be a different problem 
with the KX3 itself.  But I'd guess you're looking for a single bad 
cells in the bunch.


After a load is removed, most types of batteries recover to a much 
higher open-circuit voltage.  The internal resistance doesn't add 
voltage drop without the load present.


There are instruments out there that assess battery health. Can you get 
access to one?  I believe MFJ makes one...


73,

matt W6NIA


On 4/10/2017 7:00 AM, Anthony de Maillet wrote:

Hi,

I have a new (last week) KX3 built by Waters and Stanton in the UK.  It has all 
the extras other than the 2m/4m Transverter.  I have installed a fully charged 
and new set of Eneloop 1900mah NiMH batteries.  If I trun the radio on the 
battery voltage drops from 10.9 volts to 7.9 volts over about 2 minutes then 
the radio switches off.  If I plug in the external power (13.6 Volts) the 
battery voltage inceases back up to about 10.7 volts - again over about 2 
minutes.  Presumeably the batteries are recovering? The Batt Chg in the menu is 
OFF at this point.

Any ideas?  Radio issue, Battery issue or normal behaviour?  I’m wasn’t 
intending running from internal batteries except in an emergency.  Pre amp, NB, 
NR etc. all off.  Backlight is on though.  I’m a bit puzzled.

Tony
M0ZZA
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--
"A delay is better than a disaster."
-- unknonwn

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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[Elecraft] KX3 Internal battery issue

[Anthony de Maillet]

Hi,

I have a new (last week) KX3 built by Waters and Stanton in the UK.  It has all 
the extras other than the 2m/4m Transverter.  I have installed a fully charged 
and new set of Eneloop 1900mah NiMH batteries.  If I trun the radio on the 
battery voltage drops from 10.9 volts to 7.9 volts over about 2 minutes then 
the radio switches off.  If I plug in the external power (13.6 Volts) the 
battery voltage inceases back up to about 10.7 volts - again over about 2 
minutes.  Presumeably the batteries are recovering? The Batt Chg in the menu is 
OFF at this point.

Any ideas?  Radio issue, Battery issue or normal behaviour?  I’m wasn’t 
intending running from internal batteries except in an emergency.  Pre amp, NB, 
NR etc. all off.  Backlight is on though.  I’m a bit puzzled.

Tony
M0ZZA
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