Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Most modern commercial transceivers effectively generate CW as SSS MCW. I think the K3 does it at about 15kHz or less, which is within the audio range. I suppose the K3X could generate it directly, by just keying the I signal to the modulator; however, that would mean moving the VFO between transmit and receive, at the QSK rate. (Keying I on the K3 would probably be a bad idea, as it would mean that any transmit roofing filter would need to pass the first LO frequency and therefore be subject to some carrier leak when key up, so I presume that the CW is actually synthesized as fully fledged MCW. Even if it keyed I, you could treat that as MCW with a side tone of 15kHz.) Even the K2 architecture is effectively an MCW one, but in that case the initial tone is in the MHz range. -- David Woolley Registered owner K2 06123 Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Keyed sidetone, also known as modulated CW is of questionable legality below 50.1 MHz. It is also poor engineering practice and generates significant QRM due to carrier leakage, noise/hum modulation, clipping, and open mic noises when a microphone is also connected to an SSB transmitter at the same time (as it would be between the dits/dahs). __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
I wish people would stop using the term 'MCW' for the method of producing CW by feeding a (one hopes) clean audio tone to an SSB transmitter. This is a way of generating CW -- which may or may not be the best way -- but it is not MCW. MCW as it has always been understood is a carrier modulated at an audio frequency -- an AM signal. The signal is keyed on and off to transmit Morse information, but it has two sidebands on either side of a carrier. If the tone is, say, 600 Hz, then the signal will be at least 1200 kHz wide. It is illegal in our HF CW bands. MCW was used in past years for maritime communication because it can be received by a receiver without a BFO and there is no 'zero beat' phenomenon which could cause a listener to miss a signal. On 6/15/13 3:40 AM, David Woolley (E.L) wrote: Most modern commercial transceivers effectively generate CW as SSS MCW. I think the K3 does it at about 15kHz or less, which is within the audio range. I suppose the K3X could generate it directly, by just keying the I signal to the modulator; however, that would mean moving the VFO between transmit and receive, at the QSK rate. (Keying I on the K3 would probably be a bad idea, as it would mean that any transmit roofing filter would need to pass the first LO frequency and therefore be subject to some carrier leak when key up, so I presume that the CW is actually synthesized as fully fledged MCW. Even if it keyed I, you could treat that as MCW with a side tone of 15kHz.) Even the K2 architecture is effectively an MCW one, but in that case the initial tone is in the MHz range. -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Also a FM signal, as when a repeater IDs itself. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 6/15/13 at 8:23 AM, k2vco@gmail.com (Vic, K2VCO) wrote: MCW as it has always been understood is a carrier modulated at an audio frequency -- an AM signal. --- Bill Frantz| The only thing we have to | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | fear is fear itself. - FDR | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Quite right Vic. A.M. MCW was *required for any emergency maritime communications. Up until well after WWII, some ships still had crystal detectors as the 'emergency' receiver should the main receiver fail. In any case, A.M. MCW received on a superhet produced a very distinctive sound that made it stand out from other traffic and was required or any shipboard CW transmitter. Unfortunately many marine radio operators never turned the modulator on. One of the biggest jobs I had when preparing a ship's CW console for the annual FCC SOLAS inspection was to get the transmitter working in MCW mode. After a year of collecting dusty salty grime, it was not uncommon to fire up the modulator and have the final amp tank circuit insulators or the antenna switch erupt in flames due to the much higher peak RF voltages produced when the signal was modulated. Lots of scrubbing with rags and alcohol was then required to get the carbon and salt grime off of all the insulators, HI! Some of the early commercial (1960's) SSB rigs offered CW capability with a built-in audio oscillator that fed into the transmit audio. That is not MCW, but pseudo CW. It would be CW if the audio oscillator was a perfect sine wave and the carrier and opposite sideband suppression were perfect so that the only RF transmitted was the sideband produced by the audio oscillator. But, of course, it never is... 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic, K2VCO Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 8:24 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode I wish people would stop using the term 'MCW' for the method of producing CW by feeding a (one hopes) clean audio tone to an SSB transmitter. This is a way of generating CW -- which may or may not be the best way -- but it is not MCW. MCW as it has always been understood is a carrier modulated at an audio frequency -- an AM signal. The signal is keyed on and off to transmit Morse information, but it has two sidebands on either side of a carrier. If the tone is, say, 600 Hz, then the signal will be at least 1200 kHz wide. It is illegal in our HF CW bands. MCW was used in past years for maritime communication because it can be received by a receiver without a BFO and there is no 'zero beat' phenomenon which could cause a listener to miss a signal. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
On 6/15/2013 11:23 AM, Vic, K2VCO wrote: I wish people would stop using the term 'MCW' for the method of producing CW by feeding a (one hopes) clean audio tone to an SSB transmitter. Feeding an audio tone into the mic input of an SSB transmitter is *most certainly* MCW if the tone is not absolutely clean - no clipping, no distortion, no hum, no extraneous audio - the SSB transmitter carrier suppression (carrier balance) is not at least 40 dB, the opposite sideband suppression is not at least 60 dB and there is no clipping or compression in the transceiver IF stages or final amplifier. Without proper carrier suppression, opposite sideband suppression and distortion free tones, the resulting signal will be twice the highest distortion product wide *at least* and potentially wider if the IF stages or final amplifier is non-linear because of the generation of *additional* IMD products. MCW was used in past years for maritime communication because it can be received by a receiver without a BFO and there is no 'zero beat' phenomenon which could cause a listener to miss a signal. Modern MCW is a single sideband system (one sideband with a reduced carrier) where the carrier level is only high enough for reliable demodulation and the keyed signal is generated separately not using using a modulation process. Tone keyed CW as practiced by many amateurs today and generated by common software is a garbage generating mess and those who engage in it on any frequency below 145 MHz should be tarred and feathered. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/15/2013 11:23 AM, Vic, K2VCO wrote: I wish people would stop using the term 'MCW' for the method of producing CW by feeding a (one hopes) clean audio tone to an SSB transmitter. This is a way of generating CW -- which may or may not be the best way -- but it is not MCW. MCW as it has always been understood is a carrier modulated at an audio frequency -- an AM signal. The signal is keyed on and off to transmit Morse information, but it has two sidebands on either side of a carrier. If the tone is, say, 600 Hz, then the signal will be at least 1200 kHz wide. It is illegal in our HF CW bands. MCW was used in past years for maritime communication because it can be received by a receiver without a BFO and there is no 'zero beat' phenomenon which could cause a listener to miss a signal. On 6/15/13 3:40 AM, David Woolley (E.L) wrote: Most modern commercial transceivers effectively generate CW as SSS MCW. I think the K3 does it at about 15kHz or less, which is within the audio range. I suppose the K3X could generate it directly, by just keying the I signal to the modulator; however, that would mean moving the VFO between transmit and receive, at the QSK rate. (Keying I on the K3 would probably be a bad idea, as it would mean that any transmit roofing filter would need to pass the first LO frequency and therefore be subject to some carrier leak when key up, so I presume that the CW is actually synthesized as fully fledged MCW. Even if it keyed I, you could treat that as MCW with a side tone of 15kHz.) Even the K2 architecture is effectively an MCW one, but in that case the initial tone is in the MHz range. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
At 01:04 PM 6/15/2013, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Some of the early commercial (1960's) SSB rigs offered CW capability with a built-in audio oscillator that fed into the transmit audio. That is not MCW, but pseudo CW. It would be CW if the audio oscillator was a perfect sine wave and the carrier and opposite sideband suppression were perfect so that the only RF transmitted was the sideband produced by the audio oscillator. But, of course, it never is... 73 Ron AC7AC Hi Ron The old Collins KWS-1 sent CW in this manner. Always sounded good. I use the same technique with my Flex-1500. I spend most of my time on either CW or Digital (PSK these days) and rag chewing my preference. I am an old CW hand but I was never in love with sending CW ... but love copying it hi hi. I use MixW and simply switch from PSK to CW and leave PowerSDR in DGU mode. I have asked many operators at the other end to check my signal for problems of any kind and have never had a report of signal that wasn't clean and easy to copy. It makes operating so simple and it certainly gives the guy at the other end a break hi. Jim, VE3CI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
I have always thought of MCW as an AM signal - used so that receivers with only AM capability could copy them. OTOH, if a SSB signal with sufficient carrier and opposite sideband suppression is presented with an undistorted sine wave signal, it can be just as good as a CW signal. Unfortunately, all those conditions are not satisfied with CW in SSB where an open mic is also present. 73, Don W3FPR On 6/15/2013 6:40 AM, David Woolley (E.L) wrote: Most modern commercial transceivers effectively generate CW as SSS MCW. I think the K3 does it at about 15kHz or less, which is within the audio range. I suppose the K3X could generate it directly, by just keying the I signal to the modulator; however, that would mean moving the VFO between transmit and receive, at the QSK rate. (Keying I on the K3 would probably be a bad idea, as it would mean that any transmit roofing filter would need to pass the first LO frequency and therefore be subject to some carrier leak when key up, so I presume that the CW is actually synthesized as fully fledged MCW. Even if it keyed I, you could treat that as MCW with a side tone of 15kHz.) Even the K2 architecture is effectively an MCW one, but in that case the initial tone is in the MHz range. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
I think that you're generally right, Don, but I FM with a keyed audio tone for CW qualify as MCW too? A.M. MCW was specifically required for shipboard emergency CW communications. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 12:25 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode I have always thought of MCW as an AM signal - used so that receivers with only AM capability could copy them. OTOH, if a SSB signal with sufficient carrier and opposite sideband suppression is presented with an undistorted sine wave signal, it can be just as good as a CW signal. Unfortunately, all those conditions are not satisfied with CW in SSB where an open mic is also present. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
In the marine CW service in the late 50's, nearly all traffic on the Holy Wavelength [600m] was MCW. After all, it was the worldwide distress channel. A lot on working frequencies was too. Unlike MCW on the VHF ham bands, the RF carrier was also keyed, but in either case, it was double-sideband amplitude modulation. Shipboard transmitters usually employed motor-generator sets to get the high voltages necessary from the ship's DC mains. They weren't filtered well and most transmitters afloat were modulated by M-G whine. The M-G sets also weren't well regulated so the voltages rose and fell with the CW. The result, if you listened with the BFO on, was a chirping carrier modulated by a chirping audio tone with a chirping whine in the background. It was distinctive as Ron says but generally less than harmonious. :-) None of this MCW drivel has anything to do with the CW scheme for SSB transmitters, pioneered if not invented by Collins in their KWM2 and S-line equipment. It worked for Collins because their mechanical filter suppressed the opposite sideband by something like 70-80dB, the balanced modulator had good carrier suppression and the filter added to that, and they generated a very clean sine wave. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org On 6/15/2013 10:04 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Quite right Vic. A.M. MCW was *required for any emergency maritime communications. Up until well after WWII, some ships still had crystal detectors as the 'emergency' receiver should the main receiver fail. In any case, A.M. MCW received on a superhet produced a very distinctive sound that made it stand out from other traffic and was required or any shipboard CW transmitter. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
None of this MCW drivel has anything to do with the CW scheme for SSB transmitters, pioneered if not invented by Collins in their KWM2 and S-line equipment. It worked for Collins because their mechanical filter suppressed the opposite sideband by something like 70-80dB, the balanced modulator had good carrier suppression and the filter added to that, and they generated a very clean sine wave. Absolutely - the Collins CW oscillator was nearly test equipment pure. It was 1 KHz, the mechanical filters had very sharp skirts because of their low frequency, and the carrier oscillator offset was quite large it was some 40 dB down the filter skirt to start with. None of the Collins rigs had a lot of low frequency (300 Hz) audio because of the filter skirts/carrier oscillator placement. Modern rigs with their wide filters and carrier oscillators well up the filter skirts just can't produce clean CW from an external modulating tone - particularly when the tone is nearly a square wave from over driving the mic preamp. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/15/2013 5:14 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: In the marine CW service in the late 50's, nearly all traffic on the Holy Wavelength [600m] was MCW. After all, it was the worldwide distress channel. A lot on working frequencies was too. Unlike MCW on the VHF ham bands, the RF carrier was also keyed, but in either case, it was double-sideband amplitude modulation. Shipboard transmitters usually employed motor-generator sets to get the high voltages necessary from the ship's DC mains. They weren't filtered well and most transmitters afloat were modulated by M-G whine. The M-G sets also weren't well regulated so the voltages rose and fell with the CW. The result, if you listened with the BFO on, was a chirping carrier modulated by a chirping audio tone with a chirping whine in the background. It was distinctive as Ron says but generally less than harmonious. :-) None of this MCW drivel has anything to do with the CW scheme for SSB transmitters, pioneered if not invented by Collins in their KWM2 and S-line equipment. It worked for Collins because their mechanical filter suppressed the opposite sideband by something like 70-80dB, the balanced modulator had good carrier suppression and the filter added to that, and they generated a very clean sine wave. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org On 6/15/2013 10:04 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Quite right Vic. A.M. MCW was *required for any emergency maritime communications. Up until well after WWII, some ships still had crystal detectors as the 'emergency' receiver should the main receiver fail. In any case, A.M. MCW received on a superhet produced a very distinctive sound that made it stand out from other traffic and was required or any shipboard CW transmitter. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
On 6/14/2013 0240, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 16:24:12 -0400 From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV Just turn on the sidetone generator on key closure in SSB. Is it pure enough? Cortland KA5S __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Modulated CW - BARF! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/14/2013 6:40 AM, Cortland Richmond wrote: On 6/14/2013 0240, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 16:24:12 -0400 From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV Just turn on the sidetone generator on key closure in SSB. Is it pure enough? Cortland KA5S __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Double BARF ! 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 7:56 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode Modulated CW - BARF! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/14/2013 6:40 AM, Cortland Richmond wrote: On 6/14/2013 0240, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 16:24:12 -0400 From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV Just turn on the sidetone generator on key closure in SSB. Is it pure enough? Cortland KA5S __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Like the Collins S-line? -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tommy Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 6:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode Double BARF ! 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 7:56 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode Modulated CW - BARF! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/14/2013 6:40 AM, Cortland Richmond wrote: On 6/14/2013 0240, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 16:24:12 -0400 From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV Just turn on the sidetone generator on key closure in SSB. Is it pure enough? Cortland KA5S __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Yuck! On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 06:40:57 -0400, Cortland Richmond k...@earthlink.net wrote: On 6/14/2013 0240, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 16:24:12 -0400 From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV Just turn on the sidetone generator on key closure in SSB. Is it pure enough? Cortland KA5S __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
Gentlemen - Both of these posts are inappropriate and outside of the list guidelines. Let's tone it down a bit. Eric List Moderator elecraft.com On 6/14/2013 6:13 AM, Tommy wrote: Double BARF ! 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 7:56 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode Modulated CW - BARF! 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode
To put it properly - Keyed sidetone, also known as modulated CW is of questionable legality below 50.1 MHz. It is also poor engineering practice and generates significant QRM due to carrier leakage, noise/hum modulation, clipping, and open mic noises when a microphone is also connected to an SSB transmitter at the same time (as it would be between the dits/dahs). All of those issues can be observed nearly every day on most HF bands thanks to the CW by MCW (tone keying) capabilities of both fldigi and HRD/DM780 in the hands of users who do not understand that the SSB transmitter and modulation needs to be absolutely pristine and the microphone disconnected in order to generate a clean CW signal through tone modulation. Again, keying the sidetone into the mic input is a grotesquely bad idea. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/14/2013 12:25 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Gentlemen - Both of these posts are inappropriate and outside of the list guidelines. Let's tone it down a bit. Eric List Moderator elecraft.com On 6/14/2013 6:13 AM, Tommy wrote: Double BARF ! 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 7:56 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in, SSB mode Modulated CW - BARF! 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in SSB mode.
I thought I had printed it out but can not find this neat feature. Would someone point me to it? 73 and thank you, Jack, W3TMZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in SSB mode.
Hi Jack, I like to keep the K3 manual on my computer and then search in the PDF file for phrases. Searching for CW in SSB brought me to the top of page 55: CONFIG:CW WGHT tap button 1 and you'll see CW+SSB tap button 1 again and you'll see CW-SSB 73, Mike, K2MK Jack Colson wrote I thought I had printed it out but can not find this neat feature. Would someone point me to it? 73 and thank you, Jack, W3TMZ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Point-me-to-the-note-for-sending-CW-when-in-SSB-mode-tp7575191p7575193.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in SSB mode.
One thing to remember, is that unfortunately this option does NOT work if you are using a footswitch (or a sequencer triggered by a footswitch). I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. So, if that is they way you also operate, you have to make a MACRO that will automatically change to operate split and move the transmit frequency for you. I did this once, but it seemed to have disappeared with a software update :-( GL and VY 73, Lance On 6/13/2013 6:27 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: Hi Jack, I like to keep the K3 manual on my computer and then search in the PDF file for phrases. Searching for CW in SSB brought me to the top of page 55: CONFIG:CW WGHT tap button 1 and you'll see CW+SSB tap button 1 again and you'll see CW-SSB 73, Mike, K2MK Jack Colson wrote I thought I had printed it out but can not find this neat feature. Would someone point me to it? 73 and thank you, Jack, W3TMZ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Point-me-to-the-note-for-sending-CW-when-in-SSB-mode-tp7575191p7575193.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 USA TEL: (406) 626-5728 QTH: DN27ub URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj Windows Messenger: w...@hotmail.com Skype: lanceW7GJ 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page (above)! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in SSB mode.
I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/13/2013 4:06 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote: One thing to remember, is that unfortunately this option does NOT work if you are using a footswitch (or a sequencer triggered by a footswitch). I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. So, if that is they way you also operate, you have to make a MACRO that will automatically change to operate split and move the transmit frequency for you. I did this once, but it seemed to have disappeared with a software update :-( GL and VY 73, Lance On 6/13/2013 6:27 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: Hi Jack, I like to keep the K3 manual on my computer and then search in the PDF file for phrases. Searching for CW in SSB brought me to the top of page 55: CONFIG:CW WGHT tap button 1 and you'll see CW+SSB tap button 1 again and you'll see CW-SSB 73, Mike, K2MK Jack Colson wrote I thought I had printed it out but can not find this neat feature. Would someone point me to it? 73 and thank you, Jack, W3TMZ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Point-me-to-the-note-for-sending-CW-when-in-SSB-mode-tp7575191p7575193.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in SSB mode.
TNX Joe - I knew there had to be a good reason for it ;-) VY 73, Lance On 6/13/2013 8:24 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/13/2013 4:06 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote: One thing to remember, is that unfortunately this option does NOT work if you are using a footswitch (or a sequencer triggered by a footswitch). I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. So, if that is they way you also operate, you have to make a MACRO that will automatically change to operate split and move the transmit frequency for you. I did this once, but it seemed to have disappeared with a software update :-( GL and VY 73, Lance On 6/13/2013 6:27 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: Hi Jack, I like to keep the K3 manual on my computer and then search in the PDF file for phrases. Searching for CW in SSB brought me to the top of page 55: CONFIG:CW WGHT tap button 1 and you'll see CW+SSB tap button 1 again and you'll see CW-SSB 73, Mike, K2MK Jack Colson wrote I thought I had printed it out but can not find this neat feature. Would someone point me to it? 73 and thank you, Jack, W3TMZ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Point-me-to-the-note-for-sending-CW-when-in-SSB-mode-tp7575191p7575193.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 USA TEL: (406) 626-5728 QTH: DN27ub URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj Windows Messenger: w...@hotmail.com Skype: lanceW7GJ 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page (above)! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Point me to the note for sending CW when in SSB mode.
Well you could pug the foot switch into the straight key jack, but if you did, that would be sending QLF or QRF, wouldn't it? ;o) When I first got licensed in 1976, the Oklahoma City Hamfest had a contest called the QLF contest. They had a wooden straight key about 3 or 4 feet long connected to an oscillator on which participants would send CW with their left foot. Having your shoe on was optional. 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 16:24:12 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. The rig can not tell if you want to transmit SSB or CW if you assert PTT before the key closes and because of settling time for the various oscillators/synthesizers/offsets can't change from SSB to CW while in transmit. If one were to change from SSB to CW with every key closure (which is what would happen if one permitted CW with PTT in SSB, the CW would be very whoopy. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/13/2013 4:06 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote: One thing to remember, is that unfortunately this option does NOT work if you are using a footswitch (or a sequencer triggered by a footswitch). I still don't understand why it can't be included in the firmware as an option even if you key the TX with a footswitch, but that is the way it is. So, if that is they way you also operate, you have to make a MACRO that will automatically change to operate split and move the transmit frequency for you. I did this once, but it seemed to have disappeared with a software update :-( GL and VY 73, Lance On 6/13/2013 6:27 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: Hi Jack, I like to keep the K3 manual on my computer and then search in the PDF file for phrases. Searching for CW in SSB brought me to the top of page 55: CONFIG:CW WGHT tap button 1 and you'll see CW+SSB tap button 1 again and you'll see CW-SSB 73, Mike, K2MK Jack Colson wrote I thought I had printed it out but can not find this neat feature. Would someone point me to it? 73 and thank you, Jack, W3TMZ -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Point-me-to-the-note-for-sending-CW-when-in-SSB-mode-tp7575191p7575193.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
