Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[ktalbott]

I use ammo cans for tools, first aid kits, emergency car kits, radios, and even 
ammo.  To create faraday cage, In the past i have replaced the rubber gasket in 
some with half inch ground strap. Probably not worth the effort (removing that 
paint is difficult). The simple ground strap between top and bottom seems to 
work. A  test, if you have full bars on your CDMA phone, is to place the mobile 
in the box and send yourself a text message! A CDMA phone is preferable to GSM 
because of its ability to add multi-path into a stronger signal. (This test may 
not be conclusive depending upon how fast the risetime of an EMP actually is. 
Should be OK for slower CME). For those legacy radios in storage, a simpler 
solution might be to wrap them in a couple layers of aluminum foil! A more 
complicated solution is to build a house like mine: passive solar, 10 inch 
concrete walls & ceiling, 4 feet underground. I will be looking for you after 
TEOTWAKI.Ken ke4rg

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
null
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Larry Gauthier (K8UT)]

Yes... but don't go walking into an airport with one of those green ammo 
boxes in your hand.


-larry (K8UT)
-Original Message- 
From: Dave Cole

Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 4:52 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

Wow...  Ammo cans seem a lot cheaper and just as good.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/06/2017 11:51 AM, Bob Novas wrote:

http://www.emp-bags.com/

Bob - W3DK

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dale Chayes
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket
between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that
would allow some EM leakage?

It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver
solder a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body 
(perhaps
on the inside for durability) but I'm not sure if that solves the 
(potential

non?) problem?

-Dale/KB1ZKD



On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org> wrote:


A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could

buff off the paint to get good contact around the lid.


http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/p
c/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284
.uts?slotId=0<http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammun
ition-boxes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-
ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0>

wunder


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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Dave Cole]

Wow...  Ammo cans seem a lot cheaper and just as good.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/06/2017 11:51 AM, Bob Novas wrote:

http://www.emp-bags.com/

Bob - W3DK

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dale Chayes
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket
between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that
would allow some EM leakage?

It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver
solder a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps
on the inside for durability) but I'm not sure if that solves the (potential
non?) problem?

-Dale/KB1ZKD



On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org> wrote:


A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could

buff off the paint to get good contact around the lid.


http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/p
c/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284
.uts?slotId=0<http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammun
ition-boxes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-
ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0>

wunder


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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Erik Basilier]

Great tip, thanks! However for ultimate convenience, padding and shielding
should be provided by one and the same container. 
73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob Novas
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

http://www.emp-bags.com/

Bob - W3DK

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dale Chayes
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket
between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that
would allow some EM leakage?

It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver
solder a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps
on the inside for durability) but I'm not sure if that solves the (potential
non?) problem?

-Dale/KB1ZKD



On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org> wrote:

> A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could
buff off the paint to get good contact around the lid.
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/p
> c/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284
> .uts?slotId=0<http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammun
> ition-boxes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-
> ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0>
> 
> wunder

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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Erik Basilier]

I just googled "EMP frequency spectrum". A quick look suggests that
amplitude is down significantly in the vhf range, so given the size of an
ammo can, it would probably be ok even if the lid is connected at only one
point. However, it seems that there is significant spectral content up into
the GHz range, and I would feel safer with contact all around the edge.
Anyway, an ammo can is rather heavy. It would be nice to be able to bring
the shielding container along on a camping trip without re-packing in a
lighter container. If one accepts the need to re-pack, one might as well use
a bigger container such as a full size trash can, and use it to shield a
variety of electronic devices. In my mind I see some kind of camping food
container made of aluminum that was used in my childhood. I guess that
product has been displaced by plastic containers long ago. OTOH there are
now companies that specialize in selling mesh or conductive fabric for
turning your whole bedroom into a Faraday cage. Could there be a market for
custom radio cases that incorporate a layer of such shielding material?

73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Clay Autery
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 11:42 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

Yes, all true milspec cans have gaskets for water-tight fit...  However...

1) Note that all cans I have seen have a metal lip that overlaps on 2-3
sides, plus the latch, PLUS the pinned hinge.
2) IF you see to it that there is a conductive path via the top to the can
body via the hinge and/or latch(es), AND/OR add a bonding wire between the
lid and can,

...you have an effective electrical faraday cage up to the frequency whose
wave-length is smaller than the larges continuous gap between adjacent metal
surfaces at worst... AND because the on most cans the pulse would have to
turn corners or a 180 even then, still a pretty effective shield.

You could always test it yourself.  

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/6/2017 1:31 PM, Dale Chayes wrote:
> The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket
between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that
would allow some EM leakage?
>
> It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver
solder a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps
on the inside for durability) but I’m not sure if that solves the (potential
non?) problem?
>
> -Dale/KB1ZKD
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org> wrote:
>
>> A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could
buff off the paint to get good contact around the lid.
>>
>> http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/
>> pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/16112
>> 84.uts?slotId=0<http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/am
>> munition-boxes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-s
>> pec-ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0>
>>
>> wunder
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Wm Bush via Elecraft]

Tractor Supply Company has brand new ones for $10, a real bargain! 

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 3:35 PM, Clay Autery  
wrote:
 

 Yes, all true milspec cans have gaskets for water-tight fit...  However...

1) Note that all cans I have seen have a metal lip that overlaps on 2-3
sides, plus the latch, PLUS the pinned hinge.
2) IF you see to it that there is a conductive path via the top to the
can body via the hinge and/or latch(es), AND/OR add a bonding wire
between the lid and can,

...you have an effective electrical faraday cage up to the frequency
whose wave-length is smaller than the larges continuous gap between
adjacent metal surfaces at worst... AND because the on most cans the
pulse would have to turn corners or a 180 even then, still a pretty
effective shield.

You could always test it yourself.  

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/6/2017 1:31 PM, Dale Chayes wrote:
> The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket 
> between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that would 
> allow some EM leakage?
>
> It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver solder 
> a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps on the 
> inside for durability) but I’m not sure if that solves the (potential non?) 
> problem?
>
> -Dale/KB1ZKD
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood  wrote:
>
>> A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could buff 
>> off the paint to get good contact around the lid.
>>
>> http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0
>>
>> wunder
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[David Kuechenmeister]

Just an ordinary ESD bag will do? That sounds way too easy.
vy 73,Dave N4KD 

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:52 PM, Bob Novas  
wrote:
 

 http://www.emp-bags.com/

Bob - W3DK

-Original Message-
   
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Bob Novas]

http://www.emp-bags.com/

Bob - W3DK

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dale Chayes
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket
between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that
would allow some EM leakage?

It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver
solder a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps
on the inside for durability) but I'm not sure if that solves the (potential
non?) problem?

-Dale/KB1ZKD



On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood <wun...@wunderwood.org> wrote:

> A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could
buff off the paint to get good contact around the lid.
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/p
> c/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284
> .uts?slotId=0<http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammun
> ition-boxes%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-
> ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0>
> 
> wunder

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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Clay Autery]

Yes, all true milspec cans have gaskets for water-tight fit...  However...

1) Note that all cans I have seen have a metal lip that overlaps on 2-3
sides, plus the latch, PLUS the pinned hinge.
2) IF you see to it that there is a conductive path via the top to the
can body via the hinge and/or latch(es), AND/OR add a bonding wire
between the lid and can,

...you have an effective electrical faraday cage up to the frequency
whose wave-length is smaller than the larges continuous gap between
adjacent metal surfaces at worst... AND because the on most cans the
pulse would have to turn corners or a 180 even then, still a pretty
effective shield.

You could always test it yourself.  

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/6/2017 1:31 PM, Dale Chayes wrote:
> The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket 
> between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that would 
> allow some EM leakage?
>
> It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver solder 
> a ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps on the 
> inside for durability) but I’m not sure if that solves the (potential non?) 
> problem?
>
> -Dale/KB1ZKD
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood  wrote:
>
>> A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could buff 
>> off the paint to get good contact around the lid.
>>
>> http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0
>>
>> wunder
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Dale Chayes]

The true military (metal) ammo cans are (supposed to) have a rubber gasket 
between the top and the body. (Just checked one, it does.) Perhaps that would 
allow some EM leakage?

It would not be hard to scrape a bit of paint off and solder or silver solder a 
ground strap (or foil) bridge between the lid and the body (perhaps on the 
inside for durability) but I’m not sure if that solves the (potential non?) 
problem?

-Dale/KB1ZKD



On Sep 6, 2017, at 14:00 , Walter Underwood  wrote:

> A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could buff 
> off the paint to get good contact around the lid.
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0
> 
> wunder

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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Dave Cole]

Depending on the radio, a garbage can might work!  :)  Sorry, I had too...

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/06/2017 10:35 AM, Erik Basilier wrote:

I have always used temporary solutions for storage of my smaller radios,
such as the KX3 and KX1. Commercial cases providing padding and ideal fit
have been discussed before on this list. However, I never felt that the
products suggested would meet my needs. In the back of my mind I have long
worried that some rogue state might wipe out our radios by EMP. To position
the nuclear device, they would not even need to use a missile that travels
intercontinentally or is accurately aimed. My frequently used radios are set
up for immediate use, and would be unprotected. The smaller, very portable
radios I don't use that often, and would be stored away. They should be
stored in cases that function as Faraday cages. I am looking for storage
cases made of metal, and with good electrical contact between case and lid.
Light weight is desirable. Any suggestions from the List? My best idea so
far is rectangular cookie tins, such as marketed around Xmas, but finding
the desired sizes is not easy. Note to self: Don't be too upset if you have
to sacrifice yourself and eat some extra cookies in order to find the ideal
tin.

  


73,

Erik K7TV

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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Walter Underwood]

A military ammo box should work. They are pretty cheap, too. You could buff off 
the paint to get good contact around the lid.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/ammunition-boxes|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/522363780/cabelas-mil-spec-ammo-can/1611284.uts?slotId=0
 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 6, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Erik Basilier  wrote:
> 
> I have always used temporary solutions for storage of my smaller radios,
> such as the KX3 and KX1. Commercial cases providing padding and ideal fit
> have been discussed before on this list. However, I never felt that the
> products suggested would meet my needs. In the back of my mind I have long
> worried that some rogue state might wipe out our radios by EMP. To position
> the nuclear device, they would not even need to use a missile that travels
> intercontinentally or is accurately aimed. My frequently used radios are set
> up for immediate use, and would be unprotected. The smaller, very portable
> radios I don't use that often, and would be stored away. They should be
> stored in cases that function as Faraday cages. I am looking for storage
> cases made of metal, and with good electrical contact between case and lid.
> Light weight is desirable. Any suggestions from the List? My best idea so
> far is rectangular cookie tins, such as marketed around Xmas, but finding
> the desired sizes is not easy. Note to self: Don't be too upset if you have
> to sacrifice yourself and eat some extra cookies in order to find the ideal
> tin.
> 
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Erik K7TV
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Tommy]

  Small metal garbage cans?


Tom - KB2SMS


On 09/06/2017 01:35 PM, Erik Basilier wrote:

I have always used temporary solutions for storage of my smaller radios,
such as the KX3 and KX1. Commercial cases providing padding and ideal fit
have been discussed before on this list. However, I never felt that the
products suggested would meet my needs. In the back of my mind I have long
worried that some rogue state might wipe out our radios by EMP. To position
the nuclear device, they would not even need to use a missile that travels
intercontinentally or is accurately aimed. My frequently used radios are set
up for immediate use, and would be unprotected. The smaller, very portable
radios I don't use that often, and would be stored away. They should be
stored in cases that function as Faraday cages. I am looking for storage
cases made of metal, and with good electrical contact between case and lid.
Light weight is desirable. Any suggestions from the List? My best idea so
far is rectangular cookie tins, such as marketed around Xmas, but finding
the desired sizes is not easy. Note to self: Don't be too upset if you have
to sacrifice yourself and eat some extra cookies in order to find the ideal
tin.

  


73,

Erik K7TV



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[Elecraft] Radio storage cases

[Erik Basilier]

I have always used temporary solutions for storage of my smaller radios,
such as the KX3 and KX1. Commercial cases providing padding and ideal fit
have been discussed before on this list. However, I never felt that the
products suggested would meet my needs. In the back of my mind I have long
worried that some rogue state might wipe out our radios by EMP. To position
the nuclear device, they would not even need to use a missile that travels
intercontinentally or is accurately aimed. My frequently used radios are set
up for immediate use, and would be unprotected. The smaller, very portable
radios I don't use that often, and would be stored away. They should be
stored in cases that function as Faraday cages. I am looking for storage
cases made of metal, and with good electrical contact between case and lid.
Light weight is desirable. Any suggestions from the List? My best idea so
far is rectangular cookie tins, such as marketed around Xmas, but finding
the desired sizes is not easy. Note to self: Don't be too upset if you have
to sacrifice yourself and eat some extra cookies in order to find the ideal
tin.

 

73,

Erik K7TV

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