Re: [Elecraft] Units
Silly thread -- :-) -- but it is important to keep one's facts straight. The Cycle per Second was named the Hertz in compliance with a long tradition in the scientific community of naming scientific units of measure after the folks who did seminal work in those areas of science. Mssrs Alessandro Volta (voltage), Andre-Marie Ampere (current), Georg Ohm (resistance), James Watt (power), Nicola Tesla (magnetic flux density), Blaise Pascal (pressure), and Isaac Newton (force), to name just a few I can think of off the top of my head, were all "just men". :-) Heinrich Hertz (electromagnetic frequency) takes his rightful place in this pantheon proudly. Bill W5WVO www.N4LCD.com/electricalhistory/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: Re: [Elecraft] Units
David Cutter wrote: A pity our cousins from across the water are not all on board the SI express. David, we colonists are going metric ... inch by inch. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2009 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2009 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units [END of THREAD]
Must be a slow news day.. Let's end this thread -now-. Its way past the point of topic email overload and some of theposts are getting silly ;-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
I thought a kilometer was a device used to measure cocaine. - Jim, KL7CC Toby Deinhardt wrote: And a Kilometer is the amount of effort need to raise one kilo up one meter... hi hi ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
But I do what I can. I named my sailboat STORMJOULE. The dingy was ERG. And a Kilometer is the amount of effort need to raise one kilo up one meter... hi hi ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
On Dec 8, 2008, at 11:09 AM, David Cutter wrote: A pity our cousins from across the water are not all on board the SI express. David Yes, it is. And we still refer to our archaic system as the English system. We actually had a push to go metric in the mid 1800's but only got as far as changing the inch by a small enough amount to make 2.54 cm equal exactly 1 inch. It used to be based on the length of a small worm (: Even countries using the metric system don't get it right. Speed is measured in kilometers per hour. The hour is not a metric unit. It should be meters per second for traffic signs and weather reports. I worked for the local power coumpany and they are half right. They use the watt for power but the watt hour for energy, which again messes up the units for metrics. 3600 joules per watthour just doesn't get it. And every other form of energy has its own unit of measurement. Yuck. But I do what I can. I named my sailboat STORMJOULE. The dingy was ERG. 73 Rick Dettinger K7MW as in MegaWatt (: ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
On 12/8/2008 11:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's even sillier is having defined inverse Ohms as Mhos. I don't believe there ever was a Mr. Mho. [Mho Nomis Groeg??] Surely a Stanford physicist can recognize that Mho is Ohm spelled backwards! Radio is sure fun! I should hope so. :-) -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
Thanks for the units info. Has been a good refresher. I was using KHz, now I know to use kHz. 73, Ty ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
For goodness sake - give it a rest everybody with this inane drivel. This is supposed to be the Elecraft reflector.. Mr Moderator - PLEASE!!! Tom GM4FDM David Cutter wrote: I think the term used for the SI is "coherent," ie 1 x 1 = 1, none of your dynes, cubits, foot-pounds etc. A pity our cousins from across the water are not all on board the SI express. David G3UNA On 12/8/2008 9:49 AM, Barry Garratt wrote: Actually a radian is an angular measurement whereas a Hertz (hertz) is a frequency measurement. 1 radian = 57.2958 degrees 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second But, but, but. 1 cycle = 360 degrees = 2*pi radians, so frequency can be expressed in radians/second, although the numbers get unwieldy because frequencies which are an integral number of Hertz are not an integral number if expressed in radians/second. I'm still not used to the Siemens (pronounced Zee-mans) replacing Mho for units of conductance. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com --- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 08/12/2008 Tested on: 08/12/2008 19:52:17 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com -- So I met the bloke who invented crosswords today. I can't remember his name, it's P something T something R. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 081208-0, 08/12/2008 Tested on: 08/12/2008 19:55:20 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
> I think the term used for the SI is "coherent," ie 1 x 1 = 1, none of your > dynes, cubits, foot-pounds etc. A pity our cousins from across the water > are not all on board the SI express. > > David > G3UNA > > > > On 12/8/2008 9:49 AM, Barry Garratt wrote: > > > >> Actually a radian is an angular measurement whereas a Hertz (hertz) is a > >> frequency measurement. > >> > >> 1 radian = 57.2958 degrees > >> > >> 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second etc. One problem is that "cycles" are not really units, [nor are radians]. That is to say they don't HAVE units. They are non-dimensional. F'rinstance, look at the relationship between the speed of light, wavelength, and frequency: c = lf [I prefer "lambda" for l, and "nu" for f, but my e-mail client won't type those very easily] c = speed of light in meters [or metres] per second l = wavelength in meters f = frequency in Well, it has to be inverse seconds [sec^-1] for things to work out. There aren't any "cycles" or "radians" in that frequency figure. We physics types often use "angular frequency" instead of "frequency". We just multiply f by 2pi to get angular freqency. [It's still in inverse seconds.] Why would anyone want to do that? Look at your formulas for capacitive and inductive reactance for hints. That's why it's silly to have defined the Hertz as the inverse second. What's even sillier is having defined inverse Ohms as Mhos. I don't believe there ever was a Mr. Mho. [Mho Nomis Groeg??] Radio is sure fun! vy 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 3-4, 2009 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
Oh, I don't know - My favorite unit has always been Furlongs per Fortnight. I once converted the speed of light into those units and used it in a humorous problem in our club newsletter. Couple of guys actually got the right answer! - Jim, KL7CC David Cutter wrote: I think the term used for the SI is "coherent," ie 1 x 1 = 1, none of your dynes, cubits, foot-pounds etc. A pity our cousins from across the water are not all on board the SI express. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [K3] [Elecraft] Units
starting to get away from the term "condensers") were specified in mmf (milli micro farads) instead of pico farads as done today. Phil: You sure it wasn't "micro-micro-Farad," denoted as either mmf or uuF? Paul, W9AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [K3] [Elecraft] Units
On 12/8/2008 10:50 AM, Bill W5WVO wrote: Why is "micro" (10^-6) abbreviated by the Greek letter mu ? Obviously "m" was taken already by milli, so mu, the Greek equivalent letter of the Roman "m", was chosen. :-) But, but, but. back when I became a ham (1952) in high school and went on to engineering school the year after, in the era of "cycles" (not c/sec), capacitor values (we were first starting to get away from the term "condensers") were specified in mmf (milli micro farads) instead of pico farads as done today. Inductance was always specified in Henrys, but that gave rise to a lot of mirth because we had an Electronics teacher named Henry who, when he was "having a good time" at our expense, would boast that the "Henry" was named after him. :-) -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
I think the term used for the SI is "coherent," ie 1 x 1 = 1, none of your dynes, cubits, foot-pounds etc. A pity our cousins from across the water are not all on board the SI express. David G3UNA On 12/8/2008 9:49 AM, Barry Garratt wrote: Actually a radian is an angular measurement whereas a Hertz (hertz) is a frequency measurement. 1 radian = 57.2958 degrees 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second But, but, but. 1 cycle = 360 degrees = 2*pi radians, so frequency can be expressed in radians/second, although the numbers get unwieldy because frequencies which are an integral number of Hertz are not an integral number if expressed in radians/second. I'm still not used to the Siemens (pronounced Zee-mans) replacing Mho for units of conductance. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [K3] [Elecraft] Units
Almost all of the SI unit magnitude prefixes are derived from Greek words -- e.g., "mega", meaning 10^6, is derived from the Greek word for "large"; "micro", meaning 10^-6, is derived from the Greek word meaning "small"; "kilo", meaning 10^3, is derived from the Greek word for "one thousand" ... But "milli", on the other hand, meaning 10^-3, is derived from the Latin "mille", also meaning "one thousand". Milli appears to be the only commonly used magnitude prefix derived from Latin rather than Greek. (There are some obscure outliers... the prefix "femto" (10^-15) is actually derived from the Old Norse word for "fifteen". But most are from Greek.) Why is "micro" (10^-6) abbreviated by the Greek letter mu (ยต)? Obviously "m" was taken already by milli, so mu, the Greek equivalent letter of the Roman "m", was chosen. :-) (You can find out all kinds of useful and interesting things in a common English dictionary!) Bill W5WVO - Original Message - From: "Julian, G4ILO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [K3] [Elecraft] Units > > > Dave Yarnes wrote: > > > > But I still have no idea how they ever got > > started using "M" that way. It sure didn't make any sense to me. > > > M = 1000 in Roman numerals. Perhaps that's it? > > - > Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. > http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham > Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 > -- > View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Poor-man%27s-beverage-and-diversity-tp1623198p1630010.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
On 12/8/2008 9:49 AM, Barry Garratt wrote: Actually a radian is an angular measurement whereas a Hertz (hertz) is a frequency measurement. 1 radian = 57.2958 degrees 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second But, but, but. 1 cycle = 360 degrees = 2*pi radians, so frequency can be expressed in radians/second, although the numbers get unwieldy because frequencies which are an integral number of Hertz are not an integral number if expressed in radians/second. I'm still not used to the Siemens (pronounced Zee-mans) replacing Mho for units of conductance. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
There's another "K" (capitalized) -- other than kelvins -- that has come up over the past few decades, and that is the use of the term K for the binary magnitude 0100 -- that is to say, 400 hexadecimal, or 1,024 decimal -- APPROXIMATELY, but not exactly, 1,000. This term is used to describe anything based on the binary system in computer-related (and perhaps other) disciplines. So, for example, a memory space (addressed and thus measured using the binary system) might be denoted as "256 KB". While one might think of this space offhandedly as being 256 thousand bytes, it is in reality 256 x 1,024 = 262,144 bytes. On the other hand, a communications speed of 840 kbps is not binary-based, and therefore means literally 840,000 bits per second. Bill W5WVO - Original Message - From: "Mike Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units > G'day, > > | The big "M" vs. small "m" is something I'm very aware of usually, but > I'm > | not sure what a big "K" indicates vs. a small "k". I've always just > | considered either to mean "kilo". > > Most prefixes which make a unit bigger are written in capital letters (M, > G, T etc) and when they make a unit smaller lower case is used (m, n, p > etc). One of the exceptions is kilo (k) which is used to avoid possible > confusion with kelvin (K). > > Regards, > > Mike VP8NO > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Units
Actually a radian is an angular measurement whereas a Hertz (hertz) is a frequency measurement. 1 radian = 57.2958 degrees 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second Barry VE3CDX/W7 -Original Message- From: Jon K Hellan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:14 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units Bill W5WVO wrote: > Silly thread -- :-) -- but it is important to keep one's facts > straight. The Cycle per Second was named the Hertz in compliance with > a long tradition in the scientific community of naming scientific > units of measure after the folks who did seminal work in those areas > of science. Mssrs Alessandro Volta (voltage), Andre-Marie Ampere > (current), Georg Ohm (resistance), James Watt (power), Nicola Tesla > (magnetic flux density), Blaise Pascal (pressure), and Isaac Newton > (force), to name just a few I can think of off the top of my head, > were all "just men". :-) Heinrich Hertz (electromagnetic frequency) > takes his rightful place in this pantheon proudly. But given that the radian already is an SI unit, the Hz is redundant. Radians/s is sufficient. Jon LA4RT ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [K3] [Elecraft] Units
Dave Yarnes wrote: > > But I still have no idea how they ever got > started using "M" that way. It sure didn't make any sense to me. > M = 1000 in Roman numerals. Perhaps that's it? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Poor-man%27s-beverage-and-diversity-tp1623198p1630010.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
G'day, | The big "M" vs. small "m" is something I'm very aware of usually, but I'm | not sure what a big "K" indicates vs. a small "k". I've always just | considered either to mean "kilo". Most prefixes which make a unit bigger are written in capital letters (M, G, T etc) and when they make a unit smaller lower case is used (m, n, p etc). One of the exceptions is kilo (k) which is used to avoid possible confusion with kelvin (K). Regards, Mike VP8NO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Units
M is the Roman numeral for 1000. Just a thought.David (M6SPV)> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:03:07 -0700> CC: [snip] > But I still have no idea how they ever got > started using "M" that way. It > sure didn't make any sense to me. _ Get Windows Live Messenger on your Mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001001ukm/direct/01/___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Units
I'm astonished all you OTs are missing the truth! Don't you recall the endless harangues about kc, Mc, etc., being nonsense? It's cycles PER SECOND! So the correct for thousands of cycles per second is kc/s, millions is Mc/s, etc. Leaving the "/s" off in a magazine article would result in a flood of snail-mail-to-the-editor about the idiot that didn't use the correct term. What is ironic, IMO, is that Hertz likely would have been crowned the "father of radio" if he had understood the effect of the very parameter named after him - frequency - on electromagnetic waves. Hertz showed that electromagnetic waves were heavily attenuated by just about anything and completely blocked with a thin sheet of metal. Obviously they were useless for long distance communications. It took a fellow who also didn't know about the effects of frequency to tinker around and discover, to his everlasting delight, that his waves they tended to travel much farther than Mr. Hertz' waves. It was years later before anyone understood the difference was that young Mr. Marconi was dealing with frequencies in the range of 20 to 50 Kc/s (Hz) where Hertz had been working in the range of about 50 to 100 Mc/s (MHz). Mr. Marconi has my admiration as much for his tenacity and dedication to questioning what the experts knew as for his genius in improving and creating new devices. He often recognized publicly that was just "playing around" doing something all the experts knew was impossible experimenting with "Hertzian waves". Accordingly Marconi often referred to himself as the first "Radio Amateur". The tradition of trying things that interest us, especially if it's something the "experts" think is a waste of resources and time is something I hope we Radio Amateurs never let slip away from us. After all, it was Radio Amateurs "wasting their time" who discovered that longer waves aren't always better for DX, as Marconi and his contemporaries had decided, and discovered the almost magical propagation of signals in the "short wave" region above 2 Mc/s. So I do agree with the thesis. If we can have a unit called the Hertz, where is a unit called the Marconi and where would it end? Wouldn't a nice statue be more appropriate ;-) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:59 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units Wait just a minute. Those old units should be "kc" and "Mc" to be correct. The proper units multiplier designations and their abbreviations are: kilo = k = 1000 Mega = M = 1,000,000 milli = m = .001 That is why the capitalization/non-capitalization of "M/m" is so important. 73, Don W3FPR Tom wrote: > On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:32:28 -0500, you wrote: > > >> Wait just a minute here Mike!! >> >> What happened to MC and KC? >> >> If your on 20 meters and move to avoid the QRM did you go up 2 Kay >> Cee's or 2 >> Kilo Hertz's . With split what is it? Up 20 XXX ? >> >> 73, >> Bob >> K2TK EX KN2TKR & K2TKR >> > > In my opinion with no disrespect, Mr. Hertz was only a man. KC and MC were > appropriately named as measurements of cycles per second and should not have > been renamed. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. > > [snip] > > Tom Childers, N5GE > > K3 #806, XV144, XV432 > Mini-Modules > > http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE > http://www.n5ge.com > > Few elected officials or > their children have ever > lived the life of the > citizens they represent, > nor did their parents or > grandparents. > > How can they know what you > and I want or need? > > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1837 - Release Date: 12/8/2008 9:38 AM > > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
I think I agree with Don too, but I also learned something. I had never thought about the fact that "kc" needed to have a lower case "k". I'm one of those old guys who still has trouble speaking in "herz" vs. "cps" unless I really stop to think about it. I think I have plenty of company though! The big "M" vs. small "m" is something I'm very aware of usually, but I'm not sure what a big "K" indicates vs. a small "k". I've always just considered either to mean "kilo". Interestingly, back when I went to work for the bank I retired from (I went there from the public accounting field), I was somewhat dismayed to discover that people were consistently abbreviating "thousands" by using a large "M". If they wanted to say "millions", they were using the expression "MM". Now I know that the financial industry does use the abbreviation "K" (or "k")for "thousands", and you see it all the time in reference to bond issues, etc. So I put out a memo criticizing the use of "M" for "thousands", and got a whole bunch of flak back about it. I simply expanded my explanation in a follow-up memo, pointing out the basis for using such abbreviations--K=kilo, M=mega, and m=milli. I said if anyone could provide published authority for using "M" for "thousand", I would concede. No one responded, and many, but not all, dropped the practice. I may have erred, based on Don's memo, by using a large "K" for kilo however. But it's too late now--I'm retired But I still have no idea how they ever got started using "M" that way. It sure didn't make any sense to me. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: "Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:58:53 -0500, you wrote: Wait just a minute. Those old units should be "kc" and "Mc" to be correct. The proper units multiplier designations and their abbreviations are: kilo = k = 1000 Mega = M = 1,000,000 milli = m = .001 That is why the capitalization/non-capitalization of "M/m" is so important. 73, Don W3FPR [snip] I agree 100% Don. Thanks for pointing that out. Tom, N5GE ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
- Original Message - From: "Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:58:53 -0500, you wrote: Wait just a minute. Those old units should be "kc" and "Mc" to be correct. The proper units multiplier designations and their abbreviations are: kilo = k = 1000 Mega = M = 1,000,000 milli = m = .001 That is why the capitalization/non-capitalization of "M/m" is so important. 73, Don W3FPR [snip] I agree 100% Don. Thanks for pointing that out. Tom, N5GE ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:58:53 -0500, you wrote: >Wait just a minute. Those old units should be "kc" and "Mc" to be correct. >The proper units multiplier designations and their abbreviations are: >kilo = k = 1000 >Mega = M = 1,000,000 >milli = m = .001 > >That is why the capitalization/non-capitalization of "M/m" is so important. > >73, >Don W3FPR [snip] I agree 100% Don. Thanks for pointing that out. Tom, N5GE ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
Bill W5WVO wrote: Silly thread -- :-) -- but it is important to keep one's facts straight. The Cycle per Second was named the Hertz in compliance with a long tradition in the scientific community of naming scientific units of measure after the folks who did seminal work in those areas of science. Mssrs Alessandro Volta (voltage), Andre-Marie Ampere (current), Georg Ohm (resistance), James Watt (power), Nicola Tesla (magnetic flux density), Blaise Pascal (pressure), and Isaac Newton (force), to name just a few I can think of off the top of my head, were all "just men". :-) Heinrich Hertz (electromagnetic frequency) takes his rightful place in this pantheon proudly. But given that the radian already is an SI unit, the Hz is redundant. Radians/s is sufficient. Jon LA4RT ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
Silly thread -- :-) -- but it is important to keep one's facts straight. The Cycle per Second was named the Hertz in compliance with a long tradition in the scientific community of naming scientific units of measure after the folks who did seminal work in those areas of science. Mssrs Alessandro Volta (voltage), Andre-Marie Ampere (current), Georg Ohm (resistance), James Watt (power), Nicola Tesla (magnetic flux density), Blaise Pascal (pressure), and Isaac Newton (force), to name just a few I can think of off the top of my head, were all "just men". :-) Heinrich Hertz (electromagnetic frequency) takes his rightful place in this pantheon proudly. Bill W5WVO - Original Message - From: "Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Units > On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:32:28 -0500, you wrote: > > >Wait just a minute here Mike!! > > > >What happened to MC and KC? > > > >If your on 20 meters and move to avoid the QRM did you go up 2 Kay > >Cee's or 2 > >Kilo Hertz's . With split what is it? Up 20 XXX ? > > > >73, > >Bob > >K2TK EX KN2TKR & K2TKR > > In my opinion with no disrespect, Mr. Hertz was only a man. KC and MC were > appropriately named as measurements of cycles per second and should not have > been renamed. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. > > [snip] > > Tom Childers, N5GE > > K3 #806, XV144, XV432 > Mini-Modules > > http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE > http://www.n5ge.com > > Few elected officials or > their children have ever > lived the life of the > citizens they represent, > nor did their parents or > grandparents. > > How can they know what you > and I want or need? > > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
Wait just a minute. Those old units should be "kc" and "Mc" to be correct. The proper units multiplier designations and their abbreviations are: kilo = k = 1000 Mega = M = 1,000,000 milli = m = .001 That is why the capitalization/non-capitalization of "M/m" is so important. 73, Don W3FPR Tom wrote: On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:32:28 -0500, you wrote: Wait just a minute here Mike!! What happened to MC and KC? If your on 20 meters and move to avoid the QRM did you go up 2 Kay Cee's or 2 Kilo Hertz's . With split what is it? Up 20 XXX ? 73, Bob K2TK EX KN2TKR & K2TKR In my opinion with no disrespect, Mr. Hertz was only a man. KC and MC were appropriately named as measurements of cycles per second and should not have been renamed. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. [snip] Tom Childers, N5GE K3 #806, XV144, XV432 Mini-Modules http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE http://www.n5ge.com Few elected officials or their children have ever lived the life of the citizens they represent, nor did their parents or grandparents. How can they know what you and I want or need? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1837 - Release Date: 12/8/2008 9:38 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:32:28 -0500, you wrote: >Wait just a minute here Mike!! > >What happened to MC and KC? > >If your on 20 meters and move to avoid the QRM did you go up 2 Kay >Cee's or 2 >Kilo Hertz's . With split what is it? Up 20 XXX ? > >73, >Bob >K2TK EX KN2TKR & K2TKR In my opinion with no disrespect, Mr. Hertz was only a man. KC and MC were appropriately named as measurements of cycles per second and should not have been renamed. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. [snip] Tom Childers, N5GE K3 #806, XV144, XV432 Mini-Modules http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE http://www.n5ge.com Few elected officials or their children have ever lived the life of the citizens they represent, nor did their parents or grandparents. How can they know what you and I want or need? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Units
Wait just a minute here Mike!! What happened to MC and KC? If your on 20 meters and move to avoid the QRM did you go up 2 Kay Cee's or 2 Kilo Hertz's . With split what is it? Up 20 XXX ? 73, Bob K2TK EX KN2TKR & K2TKR Mike Harris wrote: G'day, | My 180' wire was resonant at about 2.2 mHz, where the SWR was around 1.4:1. Since signals Spectacularly slow velocity of propagation there. Here we are, custodians of a technical hobby, one that we have to achieve qualification in for licensing and we can't get our units right. MHz, kHz, yes but not mhz, Mhz, mHz (unless you really mean it), or Khz please. The illiterate computer press is a prime example of splashing meaningless mhz clock speeds on their front covers. Apologies if this is correct in the USA, like meter for the SI unit of length metre. Regards, Mike VP8NO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Units
G'day, | My 180' wire was resonant at about 2.2 mHz, where the SWR was around 1.4:1. Since signals Spectacularly slow velocity of propagation there. Here we are, custodians of a technical hobby, one that we have to achieve qualification in for licensing and we can't get our units right. MHz, kHz, yes but not mhz, Mhz, mHz (unless you really mean it), or Khz please. The illiterate computer press is a prime example of splashing meaningless mhz clock speeds on their front covers. Apologies if this is correct in the USA, like meter for the SI unit of length metre. Regards, Mike VP8NO ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] units of measurement, mmfd>pf, puffing for nf [END of threads]
Interesting topic, but we're overloading the list with way too many
postings.
Let's let these threads rest for now :-)
73, Eric WA6HHQ
List Moderator
Brian Wruble wrote:
Guys, Steve was kidding, and I took the bait. My face continues to redden
as the thread goes on. In my own defense --- it was before I'd had my
coffee, my cat was sitting on the mousepad, and I have a teenage daughter.
73 and Happy Holidays to all
Brian, W3BW
-Original Message-
From: Brian Wruble [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 09:02
To: 'Steve Jackson'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
Very good. You got me! Also very funny. I am happy to be your straight
man. 73, Brian
-Original Message-
From: Steve Jackson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 08:59
To: Brian Wruble
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
Uh-oh. Is my humor really that dry?
... or is yours drier? ;-)
--- Brian Wruble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How in the world did a change to solid state affect
a naming convention? 1
Hz = 1 cps, regardless of the circuit devices. 1
uuf ("micro micro farad")
= 1 pf, regardless of the devices used in the
circuit. I am baffled by this
notion. Can you provide more evidence? 73 de Brian
W3BW
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FW: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
Guys, Steve was kidding, and I took the bait. My face continues to redden
as the thread goes on. In my own defense --- it was before I'd had my
coffee, my cat was sitting on the mousepad, and I have a teenage daughter.
73 and Happy Holidays to all
Brian, W3BW
-Original Message-
From: Brian Wruble [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 09:02
To: 'Steve Jackson'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
Very good. You got me! Also very funny. I am happy to be your straight
man. 73, Brian
-Original Message-
From: Steve Jackson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 08:59
To: Brian Wruble
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
Uh-oh. Is my humor really that dry?
... or is yours drier? ;-)
--- Brian Wruble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How in the world did a change to solid state affect
> a naming convention? 1
> Hz = 1 cps, regardless of the circuit devices. 1
> uuf ("micro micro farad")
> = 1 pf, regardless of the devices used in the
> circuit. I am baffled by this
> notion. Can you provide more evidence? 73 de Brian
> W3BW
>
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Re: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
At 07:22 AM 12/17/2004, Steve Jackson wrote: Today, the use of surface mount parts has caused the need for 'nano.' Not to mention the need for an increase in cursing at the workbench. :-) Pete NV4V ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
At 08:08 AM 12/17/2004, Brian Wruble wrote...
>How in the world did a change to solid state affect a naming convention? 1
>Hz = 1 cps, regardless of the circuit devices. 1 uuf ("micro micro farad")
>= 1 pf, regardless of the devices used in the circuit. I am baffled by this
>notion. Can you provide more evidence? 73 de Brian W3BW
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. It's an error in logic, same as concluding that
your alarm clock causes the sun to rise. That is of course incorrect, since it
actually causes the horizon to set.
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RE: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
How in the world did a change to solid state affect a naming convention? 1
Hz = 1 cps, regardless of the circuit devices. 1 uuf ("micro micro farad")
= 1 pf, regardless of the devices used in the circuit. I am baffled by this
notion. Can you provide more evidence? 73 de Brian W3BW
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Jackson
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 07:22
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
uuF was used to spec cap values in tube equipment.
The introduction of semiconductors forced a conversion
to use the 'pico' prefix.
Same with hertz. Tube gear measured frequency in
cycles per second. The transistor changed all of
that.
Today, the use of surface mount parts has caused the
need for 'nano.'
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[Elecraft] units of measurement, explained
uuF was used to spec cap values in tube equipment. The introduction of semiconductors forced a conversion to use the 'pico' prefix. Same with hertz. Tube gear measured frequency in cycles per second. The transistor changed all of that. Today, the use of surface mount parts has caused the need for 'nano.' __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
