Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

2020-07-12 Thread Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 

With all due respect, Rick, that argument works both ways.

I see why people would want to go on a DXpedition.  It's quite an adventure.

I can understand certificate hunting, DXCC and all of that.

I get the people who are totally into linking VHF/UHF via the Internet.

There is a vast amount of fun building radios, and there are similar 
"homebrew" opportunities.  I know, I've done a lot of homebrew software.


Then there is slow-scan TV, and in some metropolitan areas, fast-scan TV.

I spent many an evening Transmitter Hunting, but to many driving around 
on a rainy night with a 4 element 2m quad sticking out the window is 
excessive.


I got my Extra so I could become a Volunteer Examiner.

I know I've left out a lot, but it's all important to the hobby.  Every 
single niche and variation.


I'm simply not attracted to FT-8.

I understand that someone has taken the ideas behind the low bandwidth 
encoding and etc. and turned it into something you can chat through, and 
that sounds like fun to me.


As usually, YMMV.

73 -- Lynn

On 7/12/20 5:32 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:

You’ve just defined the vast majority of DX (and DXpedition in particular) 
contacts.

That doesn’t make less a part of ham radio.

Rick NK7I

Email spiel Czech corruptions happen


On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 
 wrote:

... but if all you're doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that 
defines a QSO, what's the point?

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Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

2020-07-12 Thread Rick NK7I 
You’ve just defined the vast majority of DX (and DXpedition in particular) 
contacts. 

That doesn’t make less a part of ham radio. 

Rick NK7I

Email spiel Czech corruptions happen

> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 
>  wrote:
> 
> ... but if all you're doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that 
> defines a QSO, what's the point?
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Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

2020-07-12 Thread Jim Rhodes 
The truly great thing about amateur radio is that there are so very many
things that an operator can do. Since I retired and downsized to an
apartment with no tower or beam in an urban environment I find myself using
those very weak signal modes. Still have the KPA500 and KAT500, but using
that kind of power in an apartment is just not "neighbor friendly" so I am
saving them in case I decide to move back to a less congested area or find
a place I can set up a remote station. In the mean time there are those
digital modes that I can get on and make some Qs on. Please do not
denigrate these modes because there are a lot of people in similar
situations. Yes, I would love to crank up the juice, spin the beam around
and pound the green keys in plain old RTTY, but it just ain't happening
right now. So let me make a few Qs now and then and remember when I had a
"real ham station" making "real contacts". And if you don't like it I don't
give a (insert your least favorite term here) what you think. Have a nice
day.

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 18:54 Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com> wrote:

> Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
> doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
> what's the point?
>
> I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"
>
> Meh.
>
> I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and if
> we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at or
> below the noise floor, making it possible to work lots of DX even if solar
> conditions are very poor. Simplicity of protocol is a side effect of this
> design.
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Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

2020-07-12 Thread Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 
Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're 
doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO, 
what's the point?


I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"

Meh.

I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and if 
we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.


73 -- Lynn

On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at or below 
the noise floor, making it possible to work lots of DX even if solar conditions 
are very poor. Simplicity of protocol is a side effect of this design.

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Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

2020-07-12 Thread Wayne Burdick 
Hi Tony,

> Tony Estep wrote:
> 
> I've tried FT8 and even WiresX, but neither one seems much like radio. The
> digital qso via an internet gateway seems particularly pointless, sorta
> like a zoom call with a completely random person. 

Now there's a new one. It'll take me awhile to shake this image :)

The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at or below 
the noise floor, making it possible to work lots of DX even if solar conditions 
are very poor. Simplicity of protocol is a side effect of this design.

But it begs the question: Is nearly effortless DXing all ham radio is about?

If at least some part of your on-air time is more visceral, more tangible, then 
-- some of us argue -- the overall experience can be more fulfilling.

Wayne
N6KR

---

Elecraft: Full-contact ham radio


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Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs

2020-07-12 Thread Tony Estep 
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jim Ewing  wrote:

> ...people who can express their love and
> talent for cw...

=
Yep. Well, we all have a life history with radio. Mine began with a
real-life crystal set, the kind with a chunk of galena and a whisker and a
coil wound over an oatmeal box. Later, a Meissner regen receiver. Still
later, my first transmitter was all home-brew, 6146 final -- worked the
world with it and a Hallicrafters SX-96.
I've tried FT8 and even WiresX, but neither one seems much like radio. The
digital qso via an internet gateway seems particularly pointless, sorta
like a zoom call with a completely random person. I guess I'm just old.
73,
Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs

2020-07-12 Thread hawley, charles j jr 
I've been riding a motorcycle for 50 years...now I know why. 
I did read Pirsig's book when it was first published, but didn't remember this. 
I did remember that his friend rode a BMW and Pirsig made shims for the BMW's 
handlebar mounts out of a beer can, but was careful to never tell his friend, 
John I think, where the shims came from.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 12, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Jim Ewing  wrote:
> 
> Relevant to what Wayne said is this quote from Pirsig:
> 
> *“That's all the motorcycle is, a system of concepts worked out in steel.
> There's no part in it, no shape in it, that is not out of someone's mind
> [...] I've noticed that people who have never worked with steel have
> trouble seeing this—that the motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon.*
> They associate metal with given shapes—pipes, rods, girders, tools,
> parts—all of them fixed and inviolable., and think of it as primarily
> physical. But a person who does machining or foundry work or forger work or
> welding sees "steel" as having no shape at all. Steel can be any shape you
> want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you
> are not. Shapes, like this tappet, are what you arrive at, what you give to
> the steel. Steel has no more shape than this old pile of dirt on the engine
> here. *These shapes are all of someone's mind. That's important to see.*
> The steel? Hell, even the steel is out of someone's mind. There's no steel
> in nature. Anyone from the Bronze Age could have told you that. All nature
> has is a potential for steel. There's nothing else there.”
> ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry
> Into Values 
> 
> So, it's important to see a main reason why these radios are so excellent;
> because they come from the minds of people who can express their love and
> talent for cw in radio circuits, just as eloquently as Wayne does in his
> story.
> 
> Jim N4TMM
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[Elecraft] Wayne's Story - "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs

2020-07-12 Thread Jim Ewing 
Relevant to what Wayne said is this quote from Pirsig:

*“That's all the motorcycle is, a system of concepts worked out in steel.
There's no part in it, no shape in it, that is not out of someone's mind
[...] I've noticed that people who have never worked with steel have
trouble seeing this—that the motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon.*
They associate metal with given shapes—pipes, rods, girders, tools,
parts—all of them fixed and inviolable., and think of it as primarily
physical. But a person who does machining or foundry work or forger work or
welding sees "steel" as having no shape at all. Steel can be any shape you
want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you
are not. Shapes, like this tappet, are what you arrive at, what you give to
the steel. Steel has no more shape than this old pile of dirt on the engine
here. *These shapes are all of someone's mind. That's important to see.*
The steel? Hell, even the steel is out of someone's mind. There's no steel
in nature. Anyone from the Bronze Age could have told you that. All nature
has is a potential for steel. There's nothing else there.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry
Into Values 

So, it's important to see a main reason why these radios are so excellent;
because they come from the minds of people who can express their love and
talent for cw in radio circuits, just as eloquently as Wayne does in his
story.

Jim N4TMM
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