Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Ken Chandler]

Hi Ken
I like your idea too, would be fab having the K1EL chip in the Elecraft K3.

Ken.. G0ORH

Sent from my iPad


> On 23 Oct 2015, at 03:10, Ken Alexander  wrote:
> 
> Maybe Wayne and Eric should talk to K1EL about licensing (or whatever it is 
> one has to do) so they can use his famous $8.00 keyer chip in their 
> transceivers.  K1EL would make a little money and Elecraft would set 
> themselves even further ahead of the pack by providing just about any keyer 
> you can imagine right out of the box!
> 
> 73,
> Ken Alexander
> VE3HLS
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2015-10-22 10:00 PM, ky7k wrote:
>> Ultimatic mode, in addition to Iambic A and B.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 6:54 PM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I asked for specifics so we can suggest/ask Elecraft for them and all I've
>>> seen so far is generalities referring to emulation modes.
>>> Why so vague? Why don't you guys just specifically ask for what you want?
>>> 
>>> You guys are coming across as smug and arrogant. I'm sure that's not your
>>> intent.
>>> Ask specifically for what you want or ask Eric to close the thread.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jerry Moore
>>> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
>>> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
>>> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
>>> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
>>> Patriotic.
>> Steve - KY7K
>> k...@arrl.net
>> Get OUT and play radio!
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Kevin Stover]

I suggested this when the K3 was introduced.
I had just started using the Winkey USB with my K2/100 and loved it.
I still use it. It has Bug, Ultimatic, Curtis A and B emulation.

Maybe they'd save a little DSP code space by offloading CW generation to 
the K1EL product.


There is a reason why a lot of contesters use K1EL products, every 
single piece of contesting and shack management software incorporates 
support for the product, and most every single digital mode interface on 
the market incorporates a K1EL chip in the box to generate CW.


Why reinvent the wheel?


On 10/22/2015 9:10 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:
Maybe Wayne and Eric should talk to K1EL about licensing (or whatever 
it is one has to do) so they can use his famous $8.00 keyer chip in 
their transceivers.  K1EL would make a little money and Elecraft would 
set themselves even further ahead of the pack by providing just about 
any keyer you can imagine right out of the box!


73,
Ken Alexander
VE3HLS



--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Ian White]

Bob has kindly answered some of Jerry's questions while I was away in
town. It's about needing a range of choices in keyer behaviour (aka
emulations) so that almost any experienced user can select a familiar
'feel' that allows them to start keying accurately and up to speed
straight away. 

For that reason, K1EL's K16 keyer (correction: now costing a whole $8)
offers six emulations and the LogiKeyer series offers no less than ten.
Why so many? Because each one is important to somebody, and those
differences *matter*.

By contrast, the K3 offers only two emulations - the most minimal range
of choice which falls far short of supporting all users. For the world's
best CW rig, that really doesn't seem right.


73 from Ian GM3SEK


>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>bob finger
>Sent: 22 October 2015 17:31
>To: ae...@carolinaheli.com
>Cc: Ian White; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?
>
>The old LogiKey K3 keyer has 10 emulation modes.  I built an AccuKeyer
>way
>back when and still use its emulation on the LogiKey.  I would have
said K3
>but that would be misleading.  I've never even tried the keyer in the
K3 as
>I know my cw would be terrible without the AccuKeyer emulation.  73 bob
>de
>w9ge
>
>On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:07 PM, <ae...@carolinaheli.com> wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>Forgive me if these are stupid questions;
>> What are you SPECIFICALLY referring to?
>> So far the thread has meandered between different manufacturer
>> implementations using the same names... i.e. "Mode A" and "Mode B".
>> I'm not aware of any standards for modes on keyers or even anything
else
>> for
>> that matter. Just guidelines and what's been usually done.
>>
>> If we want more features in Elecraft gear it's probably a trivial
thing to
>> just ask.
>>
>> What CW features specifically are NEEDED but lacking?
>>
>> Jerry Moore
>> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
>> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
>> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
>> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced,
and
>> Patriotic.
>>
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>Ian
>> White
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 11:26 AM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?
>>
>> This discussion emphasizes the oft-repeated point that the built-in
keyer
>> firmware (shared by the K3, K3S and KX3) is really rather basic,
lacking
>> many CW features that are present in a $6 Winkeyer chip for example.
>> And before someone says "So get a Winkeyer already!" please remember
>these
>> three points:
>> 1. Portability and excellent CW operation have always been prime
feature
>of
>> the Elecraft range... but both of those claims falter if significant
>> numbers
>> of owners are forced to use external accessories.
>> 2. Elecraft transceivers are uniquely dependent on the built-in
keyer,
>> which
>> MUST be used when sending RTTY and PSK31 from the paddle.
>> 3. We're all "wired" differently as regards high-speed fine motor
skills
>> - meaning that each one of us is somewhere along a very broad
spectrum.
>> Nobody is qualified to judge whether the built-in keyers are adequate
>> through their own experience alone.
>>
>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>> 
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[w7aqk]

Hi All,

I must be totally dense, but after 60 years of this stuff (and 40 years or 
so of it with a keyer and paddle), I just don't get the advantage of Mode B! 
I understand what Mode B does, or is supposed to do, but I don't see the 
benefit really.  Although I use an "iambic" paddle, I don't use the iambic 
method, so probably that is the issue.  However, how many folks really do 
use "iambic"?  Not many based on the "survey" I've had going for a good 
while now.  If I hear anything at all about Mode B, it is usually 
complaints!


As for the gentleman's question about why his "Mode A" is acting like "Mode 
B", I'd be inclined to suspect that the rig is not actually placing itself 
in Mode A.  Does this suggest the need to try a "reset"?  Either that, or 
maybe it's only a paddle adjustment?  Have someone else use your equipment 
to see if they get the same result.  FWIW, both my K3 and my KX3 are in Mode 
A, and I have no problems with either.  I do recall a time or two in the 
past when I was getting funny results, primarily due to RF getting into the 
paddle cable.  However, that was usually manifested by the keyer taking off 
in an endless string of "dit-dahs".


Dave W7AQK


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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Hjalmar Duklæt]

Hi.
Well, I for one use mode B and have always done so. Probably because my first 
keyer only had mode B and secondly because I wanted to use the squeeze 
tchnique, as I thought that was the ultimate way to send morse code. I have no 
problems with mode B, but cannot use mode A without a lot of errors, also on my 
KX3. So I'm sure the KX3 mode B is really mode B, and that KX3 mode A is 
something else, probably mode A. 
73 de Hal/la4xx

On 15-10-22 11:11, w7aqk   wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I must be totally dense, but after 60 years of this stuff (and 40 years or so 
> of it with a keyer and paddle), I just don't get the advantage of Mode B! I 
> understand what Mode B does, or is supposed to do, but I don't see the 
> benefit really. Although I use an "iambic" paddle, I don't use the iambic 
> method, so probably that is the issue. However, how many folks really do use 
> "iambic"? Not many based on the "survey" I've had going for a good while now. 
> If I hear anything at all about Mode B, it is usually complaints!
> 
> As for the gentleman's question about why his "Mode A" is acting like "Mode 
> B", I'd be inclined to suspect that the rig is not actually placing itself in 
> Mode A. Does this suggest the need to try a "reset"? Either that, or maybe 
> it's only a paddle adjustment? Have someone else use your equipment to see if 
> they get the same result. FWIW, both my K3 and my KX3 are in Mode A, and I 
> have no problems with either. I do recall a time or two in the past when I 
> was getting funny results, primarily due to RF getting into the paddle cable. 
> However, that was usually manifested by the keyer taking off in an endless 
> string of "dit-dahs".
> 
> Dave W7AQK
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Mode B on the Logikey is not the same as Mode B in Winkeyer, K3 or
AccuKeyer (the original "Mode B").  Logikey makes the "opposite
element" decision at the end of the first dit period whereas the
normal Mode B implementation makes the opposite element decision
at the beginning of the element.

Because of this delayed decision one can "drag" the paddles a bit
and not have the extra element at the end of the character.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/22/2015 1:49 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

Keyers are very different. For example, I am a mode B guy and a
'squeezer', but I find mode B on the Logikey, the K3 and the WinKeyer
have different timing demands. I have beaten myself into being able to
use the K3 keyer despite formerly using the Logikey, but I had to make a
conscious effort to do so.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/



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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Ken Alexander]

Maybe Wayne and Eric should talk to K1EL about licensing (or whatever it 
is one has to do) so they can use his famous $8.00 keyer chip in their 
transceivers.  K1EL would make a little money and Elecraft would set 
themselves even further ahead of the pack by providing just about any 
keyer you can imagine right out of the box!


73,
Ken Alexander
VE3HLS



On 2015-10-22 10:00 PM, ky7k wrote:

Ultimatic mode, in addition to Iambic A and B.



On Oct 22, 2015, at 6:54 PM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I asked for specifics so we can suggest/ask Elecraft for them and all I've
seen so far is generalities referring to emulation modes.
Why so vague? Why don't you guys just specifically ask for what you want?

You guys are coming across as smug and arrogant. I'm sure that's not your
intent.
Ask specifically for what you want or ask Eric to close the thread.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.



Steve - KY7K
k...@arrl.net
Get OUT and play radio!

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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[ae4pb]

Because MCU does the heavy lifting right now and integrates with a ton of
other features in the rig (per the manual). It would likely be much simpler
to modify the keyer code, add variables, add settings, add the settings to
mapped memory, add the memory locations to the menu and utility. 

I have no actual clue how they do things but based on my knowledge and
experience that's what makes sense to me. It's not a trivial change which is
why I was saying to be specific. I don't believe they can straight out copy
someone else's mode, however, they can likely mimic the behavior *shrug*.
It's probably a good time for this one to close.. 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken
Alexander
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:10 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?
Maybe Wayne and Eric should talk to K1EL about licensing (or whatever it is
one has to do) so they can use his famous $8.00 keyer chip in their
transceivers.  K1EL would make a little money and Elecraft would set
themselves even further ahead of the pack by providing just about any keyer
you can imagine right out of the box!
73,
Ken Alexander
VE3HLS


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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[ky7k]

Ultimatic mode, in addition to Iambic A and B.


> On Oct 22, 2015, at 6:54 PM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:
> 
> I asked for specifics so we can suggest/ask Elecraft for them and all I've
> seen so far is generalities referring to emulation modes.
> Why so vague? Why don't you guys just specifically ask for what you want?
> 
> You guys are coming across as smug and arrogant. I'm sure that's not your
> intent.
> Ask specifically for what you want or ask Eric to close the thread.
> 
> 
> Jerry Moore
> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
> Patriotic.
> 
> 

Steve - KY7K
k...@arrl.net
Get OUT and play radio!

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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

May I suggest that there are as many "flavors" of keyers and key timings as
there are Hams. 

Back in my non-Amateur brass pounding days in Military and maritime work we
each had our own "bug" which we carried to our jobs. Woe to him who would
dare to touch another operator's key, because the springs, contacts and
throw adjustments had been set for the owner's fist.

Moving on to electronic and squeeze keying I, like many others, built my own
homebrew keyer. It my case it was an "Accukeyer" which used what is now
called Mode A. 

Once again, my key(er) and paddles travelled with me. 

I was pleased to discover, when I built my first Ele-rig in 2000 (a K2),
that its keyer worked just fine with my "fist" trained on the Accukeyer. 

But, even back in 2000, there were those who said subtle timing differences
between what they were used to and the Elecraft keying algorithm was
troubling. 

A big part of it is the setup of the paddles, but after 15 years of this
being discussed on this very reflector, there may be more to it. 

You do have the opportunity to adjust the dash/dot ratio in the MENU of a
K3, K3S or KX3 (MENU:CW WGHT). That will affect the overall timing. 

Beyond that, I recommend playing with the throw (contact spacing) and spring
tension on your paddles. 

73, Ron AC7AC

 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:54 PM
To: 'Ian White'; 'bob finger'; ae...@carolinaheli.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

I asked for specifics so we can suggest/ask Elecraft for them and all I've
seen so far is generalities referring to emulation modes.
Why so vague? Why don't you guys just specifically ask for what you want?

You guys are coming across as smug and arrogant. I'm sure that's not your
intent.
Ask specifically for what you want or ask Eric to close the thread.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[ae4pb]

I asked for specifics so we can suggest/ask Elecraft for them and all I've
seen so far is generalities referring to emulation modes.
Why so vague? Why don't you guys just specifically ask for what you want?

You guys are coming across as smug and arrogant. I'm sure that's not your
intent.
Ask specifically for what you want or ask Eric to close the thread.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Dale Putnam]

I have also always used mode B, send lots of errors with mode A, am NOT 
interested in relearning how to send with mode A, and will not bother with 
trying to use mode A. However,if mode A is all that is available.. I WILL use 
my SK. Slower, sure, but no errors either. 
Have a great day, 
 
 
--...   ...--
Dale - WC7S in Wy
 
 



  
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Vic Rosenthal]

I want Logikey-type mode B.

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO 

> On 23 Oct 2015, at 4:54 AM,   
> wrote:
> 
> I asked for specifics so we can suggest/ask Elecraft for them and all I've
> seen so far is generalities referring to emulation modes.
> Why so vague? Why don't you guys just specifically ask for what you want?
> 
> You guys are coming across as smug and arrogant. I'm sure that's not your
> intent.
> Ask specifically for what you want or ask Eric to close the thread.
> 
> 
> Jerry Moore
> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
> Patriotic.
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Ian White]

This discussion emphasizes the oft-repeated point that the built-in
keyer firmware (shared by the K3, K3S and KX3) is really rather basic,
lacking many CW features that are present in a $6 Winkeyer chip for
example. 

And before someone says "So get a Winkeyer already!" please remember
these three points:

1. Portability and excellent CW operation have always been prime feature
of the Elecraft range... but both of those claims falter if significant
numbers of owners are forced to use external accessories. 

2. Elecraft transceivers are uniquely dependent on the built-in keyer,
which MUST be used when sending RTTY and PSK31 from the paddle.

3. We're all "wired" differently as regards high-speed fine motor skills
- meaning that each one of us is somewhere along a very broad spectrum.
Nobody is qualified to judge whether the built-in keyers are adequate
through their own experience alone.

 
73 from Ian GM3SEK


>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>Joe Subich, W4TV
>Sent: 22 October 2015 13:40
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?
>
>
>Mode B on the Logikey is not the same as Mode B in Winkeyer, K3 or
>AccuKeyer (the original "Mode B").  Logikey makes the "opposite
>element" decision at the end of the first dit period whereas the
>normal Mode B implementation makes the opposite element decision
>at the beginning of the element.
>
>Because of this delayed decision one can "drag" the paddles a bit
>and not have the extra element at the end of the character.
>
>73,
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>On 10/22/2015 1:49 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
>> Keyers are very different. For example, I am a mode B guy and a
>> 'squeezer', but I find mode B on the Logikey, the K3 and the WinKeyer
>> have different timing demands. I have beaten myself into being able
to
>> use the K3 keyer despite formerly using the Logikey, but I had to
make a
>> conscious effort to do so.
>>
>> 73,
>> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[bob finger]

The old LogiKey K3 keyer has 10 emulation modes.  I built an AccuKeyer way
back when and still use its emulation on the LogiKey.  I would have said K3
but that would be misleading.  I've never even tried the keyer in the K3 as
I know my cw would be terrible without the AccuKeyer emulation.  73 bob de
w9ge

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:07 PM, <ae...@carolinaheli.com> wrote:

> Ian,
>Forgive me if these are stupid questions;
> What are you SPECIFICALLY referring to?
> So far the thread has meandered between different manufacturer
> implementations using the same names... i.e. "Mode A" and "Mode B".
> I'm not aware of any standards for modes on keyers or even anything else
> for
> that matter. Just guidelines and what's been usually done.
>
> If we want more features in Elecraft gear it's probably a trivial thing to
> just ask.
>
> What CW features specifically are NEEDED but lacking?
>
> Jerry Moore
> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
> Patriotic.
>
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian
> White
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 11:26 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?
>
> This discussion emphasizes the oft-repeated point that the built-in keyer
> firmware (shared by the K3, K3S and KX3) is really rather basic, lacking
> many CW features that are present in a $6 Winkeyer chip for example.
> And before someone says "So get a Winkeyer already!" please remember these
> three points:
> 1. Portability and excellent CW operation have always been prime feature of
> the Elecraft range... but both of those claims falter if significant
> numbers
> of owners are forced to use external accessories.
> 2. Elecraft transceivers are uniquely dependent on the built-in keyer,
> which
> MUST be used when sending RTTY and PSK31 from the paddle.
> 3. We're all "wired" differently as regards high-speed fine motor skills
> - meaning that each one of us is somewhere along a very broad spectrum.
> Nobody is qualified to judge whether the built-in keyers are adequate
> through their own experience alone.
>
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
> 
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to bobfinger1...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[ae4pb]

Ian, 
   Forgive me if these are stupid questions;
What are you SPECIFICALLY referring to? 
So far the thread has meandered between different manufacturer
implementations using the same names... i.e. "Mode A" and "Mode B". 
I'm not aware of any standards for modes on keyers or even anything else for
that matter. Just guidelines and what's been usually done. 

If we want more features in Elecraft gear it's probably a trivial thing to
just ask.

What CW features specifically are NEEDED but lacking? 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian
White
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 11:26 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

This discussion emphasizes the oft-repeated point that the built-in keyer
firmware (shared by the K3, K3S and KX3) is really rather basic, lacking
many CW features that are present in a $6 Winkeyer chip for example. 
And before someone says "So get a Winkeyer already!" please remember these
three points:
1. Portability and excellent CW operation have always been prime feature of
the Elecraft range... but both of those claims falter if significant numbers
of owners are forced to use external accessories. 
2. Elecraft transceivers are uniquely dependent on the built-in keyer, which
MUST be used when sending RTTY and PSK31 from the paddle.
3. We're all "wired" differently as regards high-speed fine motor skills
- meaning that each one of us is somewhere along a very broad spectrum.
Nobody is qualified to judge whether the built-in keyers are adequate
through their own experience alone.

73 from Ian GM3SEK


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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

Keyers are very different. For example, I am a mode B guy and a 
'squeezer', but I find mode B on the Logikey, the K3 and the WinKeyer 
have different timing demands. I have beaten myself into being able to 
use the K3 keyer despite formerly using the Logikey, but I had to make a 
conscious effort to do so.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


Vic

On 22 Oct 2015 01:04, Roger Crofts wrote:

I love my KX3 and its little paddle. Unfortunately my keying is full
of mistakes. When I send the letter C for example, it often comes out
as CT or K. I thought the KX3 must be set to mode B keying, but no,
it was on mode A. I originally learnt to send on an ETM-3b squeeze
keyer many moons ago. The ETM-3b is a mode A keyer. I tried plugging
a Bencher paddle into the KX3 but the problem remained, so the paddle
is not the problem. Is the mode A, that I am used to, somehow
different to the mode A in the KX3?

Roger, VK4YB

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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Fred Jensen]

I don't have a KX3 but I do have a KX1, K2, K3, and a Winkey, and all of 
them are set for Iambic A and they all work like they are.  Anything I 
send on Iambic B comes out encrypted.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 10/21/2015 3:04 PM, Roger Crofts wrote:

I love my KX3 and its little paddle. Unfortunately my keying is full
of mistakes. When I send the letter C for example, it often comes out
as CT or K. I thought the KX3 must be set to mode B keying, but no,
it was on mode A. I originally learnt to send on an ETM-3b squeeze
keyer many moons ago. The ETM-3b is a mode A keyer. I tried plugging
a Bencher paddle into the KX3 but the problem remained, so the paddle
is not the problem. Is the mode A, that I am used to, somehow
different to the mode A in the KX3?

Roger, VK4YB

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[Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Roger Crofts]

I love my KX3 and its little paddle. Unfortunately my keying is full of 
mistakes. When I send the letter C for example, it often comes out as CT or K. 
I thought the KX3 must be set to mode B keying, but no, it was on mode A. I 
originally learnt to send on an ETM-3b squeeze keyer many moons ago. The ETM-3b 
is a mode A keyer. I tried plugging a Bencher paddle into the KX3 but the 
problem remained, so the paddle is not the problem. Is the mode A, that I am 
used to, somehow different to the mode A in the KX3?

Roger, VK4YB

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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Ken Alexander]

It sounds like you have a Mode A keyer and a Mode B hand Roger!  There's a 
switch somewhere to change your hand back to Mode A.  Hope you kept the 
manual!!  :-)

73 - Ken
VE3HLS



On Wed, 10/21/15, Roger Crofts <ro...@monitorsensors.com> wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?
 To: "elecraft reflector" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
 Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2015, 6:04 PM
 
 I love my KX3 and its little paddle.
 Unfortunately my keying is full of mistakes. When I send the
 letter C for example, it often comes out as CT or K. I
 thought the KX3 must be set to mode B keying, but no, it was
 on mode A. I originally learnt to send on an ETM-3b squeeze
 keyer many moons ago. The ETM-3b is a mode A keyer. I tried
 plugging a Bencher paddle into the KX3 but the problem
 remained, so the paddle is not the problem. Is the mode A,
 that I am used to, somehow different to the mode A in the
 KX3?
 
 Roger, VK4YB
 
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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Mike Morrow]

> Unfortunately my keying is full of mistakes. When I send the letter C
> for example, it often comes out as CT or K. I thought the KX3 must be
> set to mode B keying, but no, it was on mode A.

What you report is completely contradictory.

If C is the desired character:

A Mode A operator using a Mode B keyer can easily end up sending -.-.-
A Mode B operator using a Mode A keyer can easily end up sending -.-

Mode B keyers end an iambic string with
* a dash if the paddles are released during a dot, or
* a dot if the paddles are released during a dash.

Mode A keyers end an iambic string with:
* the dash if the paddles are released during that dash, or
* the dot if the paddles are released during that dot.

Mode B keyers ALWAYS add a character element for which no paddle closure has 
taken place at the end of an iambic string.

Mode A keyers NEVER add a character element unless there has been paddle 
closure for that element.

Most find Mode B paddle timing to be more critical than Mode A, even though 
Mode B does NOT eliminate any paddle manipulation.

I find Elecraft's implementation of Mode A to be excellent.  Almost all Asian 
ham rig makers stupidly impose Mode B only.  Several years ago I asked QST to 
report the iambic keying modes available on any rig being reviewed.  Since then 
QST has been very good about including that information.

Mike / KK5F
(Mode A always!)

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Re: [Elecraft] When is mode A not mode A?

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Great explanationspecially for an old fellow {me},  trying to 
learn to use an Iambic paddle.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163

On 10/21/2015 9:31 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

nfortunately my keying is full of mistakes. When I send the letter C
>for example, it often comes out as CT or K. I thought the KX3 must be
>set to mode B keying, but no, it was on mode A.

What you report is completely contradictory.

If C is the desired character:

A Mode A operator using a Mode B keyer can easily end up sending -.-.-
A Mode B operator using a Mode A keyer can easily end up sending -.-

Mode B keyers end an iambic string with
* a dash if the paddles are released during a dot, or
* a dot if the paddles are released during a dash.

Mode A keyers end an iambic string with:
* the dash if the paddles are released during that dash, or
* the dot if the paddles are released during that dot.

Mode B keyers ALWAYS add a character element for which no paddle closure has 
taken place at the end of an iambic string.

Mode A keyers NEVER add a character element unless there has been paddle 
closure for that element.

Most find Mode B paddle timing to be more critical than Mode A, even though 
Mode B does NOT eliminate any paddle manipulation.

I find Elecraft's implementation of Mode A to be excellent.  Almost all Asian 
ham rig makers stupidly impose Mode B only.  Several years ago I asked QST to 
report the iambic keying modes available on any rig being reviewed.  Since then 
QST has been very good about including that information.

Mike / KK5F
(Mode A always!)



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