Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question
Hi Greg, Really appreciate the detailed instructions! Still waiting for my 9000 and new Enloops, but I will follow these recommendations as soon as it arrives. I didn't even think of the importance of Low Discharge verses the high Ah rating, but it is clearly an important parameter. Rich -Original Message- From: Greg Troxel [mailto:g...@lexort.com] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 8:29 AM To: Richard Gagnon Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question I then removed all 8 batteries and checked their voltage (no load, just with an old Simpson VOM) and 4 batteries measured 1.2 V and the other 4 were at 0.0 V. I am not sure why they would be different, nor do I understand the BATT ERROR message. [Others have explained BATT ERROR.] It sounds like 4 of the batteries are weak and/or failed relative to the other 4. Are they really the same kind and age? I usually advise against buying batteries that are 1) not ultra-low-discharge or 2) other than Maha/PowerEx or Sanyo. First, label the 8 batteries with something that won't rub off. Also label your new 8 batteries. Log the as-found voltages, and all of the following data. Eventually you will have weak/bad cells, and it's really hard to know what's going on if they aren't labeled. With a set of 8, you will need to get 8 new ones when you have one failure, but you will likely have a number of cells that can be used in pairs. (I got 8 Maha Imedions in 2009, and have been using them nearly daily to power a handheld GPS receiver. 6 are working fine, and 2 have failed, which seems ok given their usage.) When your C9000 arrives (that spares me from advising that you get one :-), do a REFRESH-ANALYZE cycle on each battery. I use 1000 mA charge, 200 mA discharge, as a standard load over multiple devices. After you've done all 8, do them again. If some are weak (not 100 mA less, but like 700 mAh vs 2400 mAh), they are bad and should be recycled. Also do refresh-analyze on the new batteries, 2 cycles. Probably they will stabilize in capacity on the 2nd cycle, with values not that different than the first. Keep this data so you can do it again every year. Feel free to send me the data offlist for interpretation. My extended battery ranting is at http://www.lexort.com/blog/12v.html 73 de n1dam __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question
I then removed all 8 batteries and checked their voltage (no load, just with an old Simpson VOM) and 4 batteries measured 1.2 V and the other 4 were at 0.0 V. I am not sure why they would be different, nor do I understand the BATT ERROR message. [Others have explained BATT ERROR.] It sounds like 4 of the batteries are weak and/or failed relative to the other 4. Are they really the same kind and age? I usually advise against buying batteries that are 1) not ultra-low-discharge or 2) other than Maha/PowerEx or Sanyo. First, label the 8 batteries with something that won't rub off. Also label your new 8 batteries. Log the as-found voltages, and all of the following data. Eventually you will have weak/bad cells, and it's really hard to know what's going on if they aren't labeled. With a set of 8, you will need to get 8 new ones when you have one failure, but you will likely have a number of cells that can be used in pairs. (I got 8 Maha Imedions in 2009, and have been using them nearly daily to power a handheld GPS receiver. 6 are working fine, and 2 have failed, which seems ok given their usage.) When your C9000 arrives (that spares me from advising that you get one :-), do a REFRESH-ANALYZE cycle on each battery. I use 1000 mA charge, 200 mA discharge, as a standard load over multiple devices. After you've done all 8, do them again. If some are weak (not 100 mA less, but like 700 mAh vs 2400 mAh), they are bad and should be recycled. Also do refresh-analyze on the new batteries, 2 cycles. Probably they will stabilize in capacity on the 2nd cycle, with values not that different than the first. Keep this data so you can do it again every year. Feel free to send me the data offlist for interpretation. My extended battery ranting is at http://www.lexort.com/blog/12v.html 73 de n1dam __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question
The KXBC3 checks battery voltage before starting a charge, and if it's not within a reasonable range (6.4V to 11.2V) it will indicate an error condition. Battery manufacturers recommend not discharging cells below 0.9V, and healthy cells will normally hold a residual charge pretty well without a load, so the error message was letting you know something was wrong. Sanyo (maker of the Eneloops) has historically been a top tier battery manufacturer, so they should work well in the KX3. 73, Rich AC7MA On 10/16/2013 02:01 PM, Richard Gagnon wrote: I have a question about the batteries in my KX3. I purchased and installed 8 Anasman 2850 NiMH batteries in the KX3 and have used the radio successfully on these batteries for several months, including several recharge cycles with the KX3 internal charger. I last used the KX3 several months ago, so the batteries were understandably dead when I went to try it out the other day. I plugged it in to an external wall wart (12VDC 1.5A) and turned the radio on. The reading on the screen was 12.0V. I then turned on the Battery Charger, but it would only give me a BATT ERROR on the screen. Thinking the wall wart might be the issue (it only supplied 12V and the manual says the charger voltage must be at least 13VDC) I plugged the KX3 into my bench supply at 13.5VDC and got the same BATT ERROR when turning on the internal charger. I then removed all 8 batteries and checked their voltage (no load, just with an old Simpson VOM) and 4 batteries measured 1.2 V and the other 4 were at 0.0 V. I am not sure why they would be different, nor do I understand the BATT ERROR message. I have since ordered 8 AA Eneloops XX low discharge 2500mAh batteries, and a Maha C9000 charger, but am curious as to how only have the batteries were dead on what might be going on with the BATT ERROR. Any thoughts or advise would be welcome. Thanks, Richard Gagnon KG1Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question
I have a question about the batteries in my KX3. I purchased and installed 8 Anasman 2850 NiMH batteries in the KX3 and have used the radio successfully on these batteries for several months, including several recharge cycles with the KX3 internal charger. I last used the KX3 several months ago, so the batteries were understandably dead when I went to try it out the other day. I plugged it in to an external wall wart (12VDC 1.5A) and turned the radio on. The reading on the screen was 12.0V. I then turned on the Battery Charger, but it would only give me a BATT ERROR on the screen. Thinking the wall wart might be the issue (it only supplied 12V and the manual says the charger voltage must be at least 13VDC) I plugged the KX3 into my bench supply at 13.5VDC and got the same BATT ERROR when turning on the internal charger. I then removed all 8 batteries and checked their voltage (no load, just with an old Simpson VOM) and 4 batteries measured 1.2 V and the other 4 were at 0.0 V. I am not sure why they would be different, nor do I understand the BATT ERROR message. I have since ordered 8 AA Eneloops XX low discharge 2500mAh batteries, and a Maha C9000 charger, but am curious as to how only have the batteries were dead on what might be going on with the BATT ERROR. Any thoughts or advise would be welcome. Thanks, Richard Gagnon KG1Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question
Richard,The one place that the KX3 Owners Manual seems to be short on is an explanation of the various KXBC3 Charger error messages. They are all in the KXBC3 Installation and Operation guide which most owners of factory built KX3's never look at. There needs to be a note to look up battery charge related error messages in the KXBC3 manual, or merge all error messages into the KX3 owners manual. (Ron, AC7AC: I am not a Tech Writer, so this is just a suggestion).The KXBC3 Installation and Operation guide says that the BAT ERR message is due to Battery missing or battery voltage out of range due to a fully charged pack or a defective or missing cell...I suspect your cells that drifted down to zero volts look like defective or missing cells to the KXBC3. They would certainly cause the voltage to be out of range resulting in the KXBC3 issuing that error message.I don't have much experience with regular NiMH cells (as opposed to Low Self Discharge NiMH cells), but I did try a set of them (Rayovac) a month or so ago with poor results. After a couple of weeks of no usage, I had to recharge them. One had dropped well below 1v, and the others varied some, but were near 1v. In my case, the KXBC3 was able to recharge them, but I wondered what would happen if I had left them in the KX3 longer until the voltage dropped well below 1v per cell. I think I know now, based on your experience.I am certain you will be much happier with the Eneloops. There are a couple of other good brands NiMH cells out there, but you must be certain they are Low Self Discharge cells unless you are willing to recharge them often.MarkKE6BB From: Richard Gagnon rich...@gagnonconsulting.comSent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:40 PMTo: elecraft@mailman.qth.netSubject: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries questionI have a question about the batteries in my KX3. I purchased and installed 8 Anasman 2850 NiMH batteries in the KX3 andhave used the radio successfully on these batteries for several months,including several recharge cycles with the KX3 internal charger. I lastused the KX3 several months ago, so the batteries were understandablydead when I went to try it out the other day... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question
All: Sorry about the previous message. Looks like all my CR/LF's got stripped out and a couple were added as well. Even the part of the message I responded to was stripped. Mark KE6BB From: Mark Petiford rv6am...@yahoo.com Sent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 9:00 PM To: Richard Gagnon rich...@gagnonconsulting.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries question Richard,The one place that the KX3 Owners Manual seems to be short on is an explanation of the various KXBC3 Charger error messages. They are all in the KXBC3 Installation and Operation guide which most owners of factory built KX3's never look at. There needs to be a note to look up battery charge related error messages in the KXBC3 manual, or merge all error messages into the KX3 owners manual. (Ron, AC7AC: I am not a Tech Writer, so this is just a suggestion).The KXBC3 Installation and Operation guide says that the BAT ERR message is due to Battery missing or battery voltage out of range due to a fully charged pack or a defective or missing cell...I suspect your cells that drifted down to zero volts look like defective or missing cells to the KXBC3. They would certainly cause the voltage to be out of range resulting in the KXBC3 issuing that error message.I don't have much experience with regular NiMH cells (as opposed to Low Self Discharge NiMH cells), but I did try a set of them (Rayovac) a month or so ago with poor results. After a couple of weeks of no usage, I had to recharge them. One had dropped well below 1v, and the others varied some, but were near 1v. In my case, the KXBC3 was able to recharge them, but I wondered what would happen if I had left them in the KX3 longer until the voltage dropped well below 1v per cell. I think I know now, based on your experience.I am certain you will be much happier with the Eneloops. There are a couple of other good brands NiMH cells out there, but you must be certain they are Low Self Discharge cells unless you are willing to recharge them often.MarkKE6BB From: Richard Gagnon rich...@gagnonconsulting.comSent: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:40 PMTo: elecraft@mailman.qth.netSubject: [Elecraft] kx3 internal batteries questionI have a question about the batteries in my KX3. I purchased and installed 8 Anasman 2850 NiMH batteries in the KX3 andhave used the radio successfully on these batteries for several months,including several recharge cycles with the KX3 internal charger. I lastused the KX3 several months ago, so the batteries were understandablydead when I went to try it out the other day... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
