RE: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
At 0315 EST on Wednesday April 2nd 2008 David Ferrington (M0XDF) wrote ... ... I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder. ... -- Hi Dave, Your 60/40 solder could possibly result in what are referred to as cold or disturbed solder joints. If I were you I'd only use that stuff for non-electrical hobby projects such as leaded glass, and jewelry. For best results I would suggest eutectic solder which is an alloy composed of 63% tin and 37% lead. In addition to it's having a lower melting point, it also transitions pretty much instantly from a liquid to a solid, without any intervening plastic state. In addition your .048 solder is much to thick for SMD work. I suggest something in the neighborhood of 0.020, plus or minus 0.005. (You need to match your solder size to your task, being careful that the solder isn't too fine as this could result the flux burning off before it does its job, which is to clean the surfaces to be soldered of any oxidation.) Regarding the flux, your best bet is a mildly activated rosin core flux. FYI, here mildly activated is a reference to the temperature at which the rosin melts (so that it can do it's job). DO NOT USE WATER SOLUBLE FLUX AS YOU WILL VOID THE WARRANTY OF WHATEVER IT TOUCHES! WATER SOLUBLE FLUX IS HIGHLY CORROSIVE AND HYDROSCOPIC. NEVER EVER USE IT WITH INSULATED WIRE (ESPECIALLY STRANDED) AS IT WILL WICK UP UNDER THE INSULATION WHERE IT CAN'T BE COMPLETELY REMOVED. OVER TIME IT WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE WIRE! SIMILARLY DO NOT USE ACID CORE SOLDER! No-clean fluxes are okay, but they have a higher activation temperature and you should have some experience with them before using them on something as expensive as the K3. The advantage of no clean fluxes is that they only leave about 3% of the residue left by a traditional rosin flux. BTW, I won't even go into the subject of whether or not to remove the flux and how to go about doing that. If you are interested you can see my previous post on this subject in the archives here ... http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2005-November/049886.html 73, Gary KI4GGX P.S. I don't know a lot about solder, but I work with someone who does! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
ok, thanks for that, the latest RS stuff says: Crystal 400 60/40 Tin/Lead EN29453, S-Sn60Pb40E the Elecraft HAGC mod instructions for SMD say 63/37 or 60/40 Sn/Pb-content rosin-core solder, 0.015 to 0.025 diameter so my S-Sn60Pb40E looks like thats the same alloy, not sure what the 'E' means. it's 0.7mm, which is 0.027559055 (ok, conversion widget!) so although thats a little over (by 0.002!) that would look to be ok. I failed to mention that I have done a fair amount of soldering in my time (taught as an electronics apprentice and worked in defense electronics for 8 years), so don't have a problem with soldering. I just didn't know about the make up of the solder - but of course 'clicked' after your post. Thank you Gary 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure, find that they very rarely lose or fail. On 2 Apr 2008, at 11:27, Gary Hvizdak wrote: At 0315 EST on Wednesday April 2nd 2008 David Ferrington (M0XDF) wrote ... ... I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder. ... -- Hi Dave, Your 60/40 solder could possibly result in what are referred to as cold or disturbed solder joints. If I were you I'd only use that stuff for non-electrical hobby projects such as leaded glass, and jewelry. For best results I would suggest eutectic solder which is an alloy composed of 63% tin and 37% lead. In addition to it's having a lower melting point, it also transitions pretty much instantly from a liquid to a solid, without any intervening plastic state. In addition your .048 solder is much to thick for SMD work. I suggest something in the neighborhood of 0.020, plus or minus 0.005. (You need to match your solder size to your task, being careful that the solder isn't too fine as this could result the flux burning off before it does its job, which is to clean the surfaces to be soldered of any oxidation.) Regarding the flux, your best bet is a mildly activated rosin core flux. FYI, here mildly activated is a reference to the temperature at which the rosin melts (so that it can do it's job). DO NOT USE WATER SOLUBLE FLUX AS YOU WILL VOID THE WARRANTY OF WHATEVER IT TOUCHES! WATER SOLUBLE FLUX IS HIGHLY CORROSIVE AND HYDROSCOPIC. NEVER EVER USE IT WITH INSULATED WIRE (ESPECIALLY STRANDED) AS IT WILL WICK UP UNDER THE INSULATION WHERE IT CAN'T BE COMPLETELY REMOVED. OVER TIME IT WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH THE WIRE! SIMILARLY DO NOT USE ACID CORE SOLDER! No-clean fluxes are okay, but they have a higher activation temperature and you should have some experience with them before using them on something as expensive as the K3. The advantage of no clean fluxes is that they only leave about 3% of the residue left by a traditional rosin flux. BTW, I won't even go into the subject of whether or not to remove the flux and how to go about doing that. If you are interested you can see my previous post on this subject in the archives here ... http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2005-November/049886.html 73, Gary KI4GGX P.S. I don't know a lot about solder, but I work with someone who does! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
Some years ago when I was a Materials Engineer for Hewlett Packard, solder was one of my categories. The purpose of flux is to reduce (eat away) the oxide coating on the copper so the solder can stick to it and also as a wetting agent to reduce the surface tension of the molten solder and to prevent oxygen from contacting the metal while soldering is taking place. There are three main types: Acid flux is the type used by plumbers for soldering pipes and should never be used for electronic work. Water-soluble flux is OK for electronic work only if it is washed off after the soldering job is complete. Rosin flux is the type normally used for hand-soldering electronic assemblies. It comes in various activity levels. Fully-activated (RA) flux works the best but is the most corrosive. Mildly-activated (RMA) flux is what is usually used. RMA flux does not need to be removed after soldering - the rosin seals in the activator where it can do no harm. However, if you do decide to remove it using alcohol or some other solvent, it is very important that it be removed completely. If you leave a film of left-over flux on the board it can cause long-term corrosion. Lead-free solder is all the rage now as it is required in Europe for environmental reasons. However, standard tin-lead solder is easier to use (lower melting temperature) and cheaper so I recommend it for hobby use. If you're worried about lead poisoning, wash your hands after use. Plumbers use a 50/50 tin-lead alloy. It is cheaper than electronic solder and has a temperature range where it is kind of pasty, neither solid or liquid, which is useful when soldering pipes. For electronics use, you want 60/40 or 63/37. The 63/37 is eutectic which means there is no pasty range - it changes directly from solid to liquid at 360 degF (182 degC). The 60/40 alloy has a slightly higher melting point but is so close to eutectic that you won't notice the difference. The 0.048-inch diameter solder is fine for soldering through-hole components, but would be a bit awkward for surface-mount parts, especially the small ones. Your 0.028-inch/0.7-mm stuff would probably work better. I use 0.014-inch (0.36 mm) rosin-core solder which is adequate even for fine-pitch ICs. Al N1AL On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 00:15, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: Well, all this talk of mods got me wondering and I liek some opinions from this group - I KNOW some of you know a lot about solder. Resin core solder - thats not acid flux is it? Most of my solder came from my time with electronics in defense over 30 years ago. I have 2 reels that are labelled: Ersin non-corrosive flux made by Ersin Multicore Solder and has 362 Flux, DTD599, BS441, Type 1 written on the label. This is 18 SWG, .048, 1.2mm (this is a time when you got told every which way) The other roll is only 2 years old, is from RS (that's Radio Spares in UK) but made by Multicore and supposedly low temp (melts at 183 C). It has 'Crystal 400 60/40 Tin/Lead EN29453, S-Sn60Pb40E on it and is 0.7mm So I'm guessing that the later would be preferable for use on the K3 and on my XV144 which I'm about to start. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
Alan Bloom wrote: Water-soluble flux is OK for electronic work only if it is washed off after the soldering job is complete. It's very hard to wash off completely and is usually used for mechanized soldering. It's not recommended by Elecraft. If you don't wash it off completely, what's left absorbs moisture from the air and becomes conductive. Lead-free solder is all the rage now as it is required in Europe for environmental reasons. However, standard tin-lead solder is easier to use (lower melting temperature) and cheaper so I recommend it for hobby use. If you're worried about lead poisoning, wash your hands after use. There are also issues with long-term stability of lead-free solder (it grows whiskers) and other problems. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
Thanks much, very informative and useful. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- A good cook is like a sorceress who dispenses happiness. -Elsa Schiaparelli, fashion designer (1890-1973) On 2 Apr 2008, at 17:23, Alan Bloom wrote: Some years ago when I was a Materials Engineer for Hewlett Packard, solder was one of my categories. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
Will this thread ever die a graceful death? - Original Message - From: Vic K2VCO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder Alan Bloom wrote: Water-soluble flux is OK for electronic work only if it is washed off after the soldering job is complete. It's very hard to wash off completely and is usually used for mechanized soldering. It's not recommended by Elecraft. If you don't wash it off completely, what's left absorbs moisture from the air and becomes conductive. Lead-free solder is all the rage now as it is required in Europe for environmental reasons. However, standard tin-lead solder is easier to use (lower melting temperature) and cheaper so I recommend it for hobby use. If you're worried about lead poisoning, wash your hands after use. There are also issues with long-term stability of lead-free solder (it grows whiskers) and other problems. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] [K3] - mods and solder
Vic wrote: It's (water soluable flux) very hard to wash off completely and is usually used for mechanized soldering. It's not recommended by Elecraft. If you don't wash it off completely, what's left absorbs moisture from the air and becomes conductive. - From what I've read it also remains corrosive at room temperature, just like acid flux, with the same results as using acid flux on a board: it'll eat the traces to bits over a few months time. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
