Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Pete, I have tried cyanoacrylate and when it heated it let go. -Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
It can liberate cyanide (or some derivative) when it is heated as well. 73, Tom N0SS At 06:03 PM 8/13/04, Stuart Rohre wrote: Pete, I have tried cyanoacrylate and when it heated it let go. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Am 10. Aug 2004, um 14:04:49 schrieb wayne burdick: Regarding SMT (surface-mount technology): We will obviously have to use many more SMDs (surface-mount devices) in future kits. But they will all be pre-installed, with rare exceptions. Wayne, would you then please consider selling the bare PCB and the SMD parts as an extra option? Look, I'm young, I'm a fool, and I actually do have fun soldering SMD... Mario -- Mario LorenzInternet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ham Radio: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * This virus needs Windows95 to run! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
- Original Message - From: David Toepfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] I recall reading somehere a while ago that absolutely all precision instruments/tools are fabricated in metric and the only thing that is english is the labels and the specs which are all converted to english. Have you checked your car? 95% of the nuts and bolts in my 88 Chevrolet, made in Texas, were metric. Bob Baxter AA7EQ Bisbee, Az. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Everyone seems to be missing my point, which is, all of these things are designed and fabricated in metric specs. The machine tools are made in factories to metric specs, but when the but the dials on them or the labels on them they are converted to english so we sad american masses who just cant/wont work in metrics can understand. I can, for example, make a 1/2 bolt by makeing it 12.7mm. My point is, the machining specs are actually in metric, but the end result is marketed and labeled in english. If the US was not the huge economic power house and consumer it was all of the rest of the countries/companies of the world would not coddle us on issues like this as they do. dt . --- Bob Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: David Toepfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] I recall reading somehere a while ago that absolutely all precision instruments/tools are fabricated in metric and the only thing that is english is the labels and the specs which are all converted to english. Have you checked your car? 95% of the nuts and bolts in my 88 Chevrolet, made in Texas, were metric. Bob Baxter AA7EQ Bisbee, Az. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Yes, I think we can do simple kits with 1206 parts with home hand tools and possibly a hold down fixture home made. In fact, that would be a great kit, a set of SMT sized tools: Needle Nose pliers, light spring tweezer, hold down device that would sit on desk and exert weight on a 1206 component as you soldered it, Maybe a Spudgeon tool, or dental wide tip blade to apply flux to hold 1206 as a glue until soldered, a roll of 0.01 low melting point solder, and list of suggested fine tip irons, and desk magnifiers that a ham could locally procure. Or include an option of that rectangular desk magnifier with tube light I have seen in some catalogs. These tools might be along the lines of the SMT article in the last QRP Homebrewer magazine, and any others you might think useful. Also useful would be test leads to fit standard banana plug Fluke and other import meters, but have real needle tips for SMT lead probing and test. Regards and 72, Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
I would *love* to see an SMT version of the KX1. Already, in a number of places in the current kit, it would seem like an SMT bypass cap would fit better than the leaded version! And probably no more difficult to fit/solder in place. How 'bout an SMT Option on some kits? 73, Steve aa8af ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
For manual SMT parts, 1206 is a workable size: 0.12 in. by 0.06 in. Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
I dunno Stuart. I think of sneezing and ending up with the parts for my new all-band Elecraft K-92 scattered all over the shop floor. Besides, the knobs on my K2 are WAY too small already. I'm reminded of the segment in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy in which the alien invasion of Earth begins with a thousand fully armed space ships streaking down into the earth's atmosphere in rigid formation, ready to take on all of mankind with their loaded weapons and, just as they are about to touch down, the entire fleet is inhaled by a very small dog. Perhaps the day is coming when a binocular microscope will be as much a part of every Ham's workbench as a soldering iron. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Rohre Yes, I think we can do simple kits with 1206 parts with home hand tools and possibly a hold down fixture home made. In fact, that would be a great kit, a set of SMT sized tools: Needle Nose pliers, light spring tweezer, hold down device that would sit on desk and exert weight on a 1206 component as you soldered it, Maybe a Spudgeon tool, or dental wide tip blade to apply flux to hold 1206 as a glue until soldered, a roll of 0.01 low melting point solder, and list of suggested fine tip irons, and desk magnifiers that a ham could locally procure. /// ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
At 04:20 PM 8/11/2004, Stuart Rohre wrote: Yes, I think we can do simple kits with 1206 parts with home hand tools and possibly a hold down fixture home made. In fact, that would be a great kit, a set of SMT sized tools: Needle Nose pliers, light spring tweezer, hold down device that would sit on desk and exert weight on a 1206 component as you soldered it, Maybe a Spudgeon tool, or dental wide tip blade to apply flux to hold 1206 as a glue until soldered, a roll of 0.01 low melting point solder, and list of suggested fine tip irons, and desk magnifiers that a ham could locally procure. Snip That's a great idea Stuart. For me, the hold down fixture wood be crucial and a good design welcome. The mention of hold down fluxes left me with an uneasy feeling in that most fluxes are a bit active and I would be concerned about the state of the flux after soldering. I have visions of an active flux residue progressing as a corrosive agent over time unless it could be completely cleaned out after soldering. A glue type holding agent might carbonize with the soldering heat. Has industry settled on a flux that addresses these issues? 73 Pete NV4V ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Peter, There are water clean fluxes that might answer your concern. I was thinking of ones that dissipate with soldering heat, just a dot on land of the component that was to be the down side. Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
wayne burdick wrote: Regarding SMT (surface-mount technology): We will obviously have to use many more SMDs (surface-mount devices) in future kits. But they will all be pre-installed, with rare exceptions. While it is possible to install and remove SMDs by hand, it can require a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired vision, and specialized tools. Only a small fraction of kit builders has all of these *and* the desire to build kits with SMDs. (I can do it, but I don't like to :) That said, we may offer small SMD-based accessory kits someday for those who are interested in learning and applying the necessary skills. 73, Wayne N6KR Well I for one would like to try this SMD construction. I have worked in a service environment with probably the first SMD devices, which I guess were quite big by modern standards. Are there any kits available right now to make an interesting project? 73, Deni GM3SKN F5VJC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Wayne wrote: ...it can require a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired vision, and specialized tools. --- Good points, especially when it comes to identifying parts. My experience has been mostly in fixing something. I replace one or two SMDs and I'm done. But reading the identifying marks on some of them darn near requires a microscope! Building a whole rig from a box (or thimblefull) of 100 or 200 such devices might be a bit more of a challenge... Also, I cringe when I find a dense board mixed with through-hole stuff. The big parts almost always make it really tough and time-consuming to work with SMDs using simple, non-specialized tools. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:34 PM To: 'Elecraft Mail list' Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft Wayne wrote: ...it can require a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired vision, and specialized tools. --- Good points, especially when it comes to identifying parts. My experience has been mostly in fixing something. I replace one or two SMDs and I'm done. But reading the identifying marks on some of them darn near requires a microscope! Ron You usually do not get identification marks on chip capacitors, melf/SOD80 diodes or SOT23 parts (transistors etc) This is what I see as the biggest issue to SMD kits as there is no visual way for the builder to validate he has the correct parts in the correct place so its all down to getting these in the right place first time. This might seem to contradict some of my earlier comments in some ways but of read in context it only means you need to concentrate a little harder and employ a slightly different methodology for the assembly of the 2 technologies. I already know 1 builder who had some problems that ended up being a misplaced part, a very easy thing to do. The part size chosen for a kit will make a big difefrence in parts managability but will make the inventory for compiling the kit for sale as you cannot sequence the parts as easily on tape as on a bandolier. John Building a whole rig from a box (or thimblefull) of 100 or 200 such devices might be a bit more of a challenge... Also, I cringe when I find a dense board mixed with through-hole stuff. The big parts almost always make it really tough and time-consuming to work with SMDs using simple, non-specialized tools. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
Ouch! The stuff that I've see so far has numbers - but really, really, REALLY small in many cases. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Ron You usually do not get identification marks on chip capacitors, melf/SOD80 diodes or SOT23 parts (transistors etc) This is what I see as the biggest issue to SMD kits as there is no visual way for the builder to validate he has the correct parts in the correct place so its all down to getting these in the right place first time. John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:25 AM To: 'Elecraft Mail list' Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft Ouch! The stuff that I've see so far has numbers - but really, really, REALLY small in many cases. Ron Yeah mostly chip resistors have numbers using standard conventions, except Rohm/Eurohm who can have a really funky system, don't expect 102 to be 1K from some of these guys. But MLC caps 1206 (3.2 x 1.6mm) and below are rarely marked, but depends on manufacturer, 0805 (2.0 x 1.25mm) have never had markings as far as I recall. These I would view as big passive parts, excluding chip electrolytic/tantalums. Was that your definition of small?, normally we use 0603 (1.6 x 0.8mm) or 0402 (1 x 0.5mm) every day. No metric comments please ;-), its an affliction but I am used to it. John (GM1BSG) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Ron You usually do not get identification marks on chip capacitors, melf/SOD80 diodes or SOT23 parts (transistors etc) This is what I see as the biggest issue to SMD kits as there is no visual way for the builder to validate he has the correct parts in the correct place so its all down to getting these in the right place first time. John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 07:15:01PM -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Nope. Those are smaller than anything I've used! Yeah, I'm aware that many (most?) of the numbers I've seen have nothing to do with any parts I.D. conventions that I know! As a technical writer I work in metric all the time. I have to convert back to English more than go the other way. Most people here don't realize that the standard system of weights and measures in the USA is metric. We converted by an act of Congress to Metric over 100 years ago. The problem was that Congress didn't make the old English system illegal. Still wish they would G. Me too. I recall hearing that Jefferson proposed it in the early years of this country, but was unable to push it through. One Interstate (I-19 in Arizona) has metric signage, however. Never say an American can't be stubborn. (Lessee 3/32 inch times 9/16 inch ...eh...). I thought it somewhat amusing that the Brits still use miles, although they have converted most other things (except for Imperial pints of beer, of course). Bob, N7XY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
