Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
Yup Glad my hutch/desk are on ball bearing transfers Because I remove EVERY cable/wire too. A year ago March I lost over 20k in electronics, et al from a lightning strike on a TREE 20 feet from the UN-GROUNDED pedestal. I'm STILL fighting them to recover. And with a FULLY stuffed K3s/P3 and NO SPARES, I keep a close eye on it. Clay E. Autery, Jr. KY5G On 8/24/2022 1:20 PM, Nick - WB5BKL wrote: What Dave said. Almost identical here. Now, during t-storms, the K3 is a box sitting on the desk with _nothing_ repeat _nothing_ connected. If I thought wrapping it with tinfoil* would help... cln - Nick WB5BKL Lake Buchanan, TX * One of my neighbors has a plentiful supply. On 8/24/22 11:49, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Message: 9 Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:47:24 -0700 From: David Gilbert To: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode When my KIO3 got zapped, I had everything disconnected.? Antenna and all accessories from the K3 ... power supply as well.? The one thing I didn't have disconnected was the RS-232 link between the laptop and the KIO3.? Somehow a transient from a nearby lightning strike (not a direct one to my tower) traveled through the laptop power brick and to an otherwise completely floating K3.? If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. It takes very little to zap the KIO3.? I now disconnect EVERYTHING in the shack during lightning season. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k...@montac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
That's about on par with the "non-magnetic mattresses" I used to see being sold to "prevent disturbance of the earth's natural magnetic field while you sleep." All of this is pretty much economic Darwinism. 73, Dave AB7E On 8/24/2022 11:27 AM, Walter Underwood wrote: You could get one of these “router EMF guards". Tinfoil hat is optional. Do not click on this if stupidity makes your brain hurt. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07MXD75TR/ <https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07MXD75TR/> wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Nick - WB5BKL wrote: What Dave said. Almost identical here. Now, during t-storms, the K3 is a box sitting on the desk with _nothing_ repeat _nothing_ connected. If I thought wrapping it with tinfoil* would help... cln - Nick WB5BKL Lake Buchanan, TX * One of my neighbors has a plentiful supply. On 8/24/22 11:49, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Message: 9 Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:47:24 -0700 From: David Gilbert To: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode When my KIO3 got zapped, I had everything disconnected.? Antenna and all accessories from the K3 ... power supply as well.? The one thing I didn't have disconnected was the RS-232 link between the laptop and the KIO3.? Somehow a transient from a nearby lightning strike (not a direct one to my tower) traveled through the laptop power brick and to an otherwise completely floating K3.? If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. It takes very little to zap the KIO3.? I now disconnect EVERYTHING in the shack duri __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
You could get one of these “router EMF guards". Tinfoil hat is optional. Do not click on this if stupidity makes your brain hurt. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07MXD75TR/ <https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07MXD75TR/> wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Nick - WB5BKL wrote: > > What Dave said. Almost identical here. > > Now, during t-storms, the K3 is a box sitting on the desk with _nothing_ > repeat _nothing_ connected. If I thought wrapping it with tinfoil* would > help... > > cln - Nick > WB5BKL > Lake Buchanan, TX > > * One of my neighbors has a plentiful supply. > > > > On 8/24/22 11:49, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:47:24 -0700 >> From: David Gilbert >> To: >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode >> >> >> When my KIO3 got zapped, I had everything disconnected.? Antenna and all >> accessories from the K3 ... power supply as well.? The one thing I >> didn't have disconnected was the RS-232 link between the laptop and the >> KIO3.? Somehow a transient from a nearby lightning strike (not a direct >> one to my tower) traveled through the laptop power brick and to an >> otherwise completely floating K3.? If I remember correctly, the laptop >> power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. >> >> It takes very little to zap the KIO3.? I now disconnect EVERYTHING in >> the shack during lightning season. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
What Dave said. Almost identical here. Now, during t-storms, the K3 is a box sitting on the desk with _nothing_ repeat _nothing_ connected. If I thought wrapping it with tinfoil* would help... cln - Nick WB5BKL Lake Buchanan, TX * One of my neighbors has a plentiful supply. On 8/24/22 11:49, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: Message: 9 Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:47:24 -0700 From: David Gilbert To: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode When my KIO3 got zapped, I had everything disconnected.? Antenna and all accessories from the K3 ... power supply as well.? The one thing I didn't have disconnected was the RS-232 link between the laptop and the KIO3.? Somehow a transient from a nearby lightning strike (not a direct one to my tower) traveled through the laptop power brick and to an otherwise completely floating K3.? If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. It takes very little to zap the KIO3.? I now disconnect EVERYTHING in the shack during lightning season. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
Yep, series mode protectors. Got a few of them. But when tstms threaten, *everything* gets disconnected from the K3/K4, including headphones, key and speakers. 73, Drew AF2Z On 08/23/22 18:07, Jim Brown wrote: On 8/23/2022 2:47 PM, David Gilbert wrote: If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. MOV Surge protectors short the phase and neutral conductors to the green wire in the event of a surge. In the event of a strike, the IR drop in the green wire raises the potential of the computer. It's common for the potential difference between the computer and the chassis of anything to which it's connected to fry either or both units. This is why MOV surge protectors are a bad idea -- in systems where interconnected components are powered from MOVs at different outlets, or to equipment that's grounded, they are as likely to CAUSE destructive failures as to protect anything. We learned about this in the world of large sound systems more than twenty years ago, started using series-mode surge protectors, which store the surge in a very large inductor, then discharge it slowly. A company called SurgeX, for whom I did some tech writing and teaching at trade shows, licensed the patent for the pro audio market; two other companies licensed it for the computer world and home entertainment world respectively. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pu...@af2z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
On 8/23/2022 2:47 PM, David Gilbert wrote: If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. MOV Surge protectors short the phase and neutral conductors to the green wire in the event of a surge. In the event of a strike, the IR drop in the green wire raises the potential of the computer. It's common for the potential difference between the computer and the chassis of anything to which it's connected to fry either or both units. This is why MOV surge protectors are a bad idea -- in systems where interconnected components are powered from MOVs at different outlets, or to equipment that's grounded, they are as likely to CAUSE destructive failures as to protect anything. We learned about this in the world of large sound systems more than twenty years ago, started using series-mode surge protectors, which store the surge in a very large inductor, then discharge it slowly. A company called SurgeX, for whom I did some tech writing and teaching at trade shows, licensed the patent for the pro audio market; two other companies licensed it for the computer world and home entertainment world respectively. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
On 8/23/2022 2:15 PM, David Gilbert wrote: That little board seems to have by far the poorest reliability history of anything in the K3. I can think of two reasons. First, cable shields are not bonded to the chassis at the point of entry; instead, they are capacity-coupled, and I suspect that the board itself is not well bonded to the chassis. Second, far too many hams fail to do proper bonding in the shack and on the operating desk. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
A local ham friend had most electronics in his house destroyed by lightningnot a direct hit, but one where his ground returns provided a path. We have some of the worst lightning storms in the USA (Central Florida) and its a daily chase to make sure as much of our gear is not connected during the daily T-storms. There are some who are beginning to disconnect the RF and Electrical grounding of their gear due to the nature of lightning and its ability to find a route to true ground. Tough stuff, this lightning! I hope each of us does the best we can to minimize our exposure to the effects of a lightning discharge. Good luck to us all after we've done our best to disconnect from all sources of lightning intervention. Best 73 to all. ChuckW4MIL -Original Message- From: David Gilbert To: cemil...@aol.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2022 5:47 pm Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode When my KIO3 got zapped, I had everything disconnected. Antenna and all accessories from the K3 ... power supply as well. The one thing I didn't have disconnected was the RS-232 link between the laptop and the KIO3. Somehow a transient from a nearby lightning strike (not a direct one to my tower) traveled through the laptop power brick and to an otherwise completely floating K3. If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. It takes very little to zap the KIO3. I now disconnect EVERYTHING in the shack during lightning season. I was able to get a replacement set of KIO3 boards from Don, and even in that case the audio board I got from him was blown. Luckily my original audio board was OK and all I had to do was replace the RS-232 board. I don't know what I would do if the KIO3 goes south again since the primary use of my K3 is for contesting and I absolutely need connection to the logger for that. Dave AB7E On 8/23/2022 2:31 PM, cemil...@aol.com wrote: Not owning a K3, but have the KX3..and other rigs! Perhaps disconnecting the antenna (before and during an electrical storm) from the shack hardware makes little boards like the K103 enjoy a longer life. Just suggesting. No disrespect in this comment. 73 Chuck W4MIL -Original Message- From: David Gilbert To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2022 5:15 pm Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode Yes, for sure. That little board seems to have by far the poorest reliability history of anything in the K3. Dave AB7E On 8/23/2022 2:05 PM, Al Lorona wrote: > Ah, lightning. Whoever performs an analysis of the KIO3 failure mode after being struck by lightning might have what's necessary for a very lucrative business. > Actually, I'm surprised that the board hasn't already been reverse engineered in China, enabling an aftermarket for KIO3 replacements. I bet everybody on this reflector living east of the Rockies would buy two of them in anticipation of future thunderstorms. > Al W6LX/4 > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ab7e...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to cemil...@aol.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
Even in Europe (east of the Rockies somewhat...). Got still 2 spares in the box for my three K3's. There's a reason. Udo DK5YA Am 23.08.2022 um 23:05 schrieb Al Lorona: Ah, lightning. Whoever performs an analysis of the KIO3 failure mode after being struck by lightning might have what's necessary for a very lucrative business. Actually, I'm surprised that the board hasn't already been reverse engineered in China, enabling an aftermarket for KIO3 replacements. I bet everybody on this reflector living east of the Rockies would buy two of them in anticipation of future thunderstorms. Al W6LX/4 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
When my KIO3 got zapped, I had everything disconnected. Antenna and all accessories from the K3 ... power supply as well. The one thing I didn't have disconnected was the RS-232 link between the laptop and the KIO3. Somehow a transient from a nearby lightning strike (not a direct one to my tower) traveled through the laptop power brick and to an otherwise completely floating K3. If I remember correctly, the laptop power supply was even plugged into a quality surge protected UPS. It takes very little to zap the KIO3. I now disconnect EVERYTHING in the shack during lightning season. I was able to get a replacement set of KIO3 boards from Don, and even in that case the audio board I got from him was blown. Luckily my original audio board was OK and all I had to do was replace the RS-232 board. I don't know what I would do if the KIO3 goes south again since the primary use of my K3 is for contesting and I absolutely need connection to the logger for that. Dave AB7E On 8/23/2022 2:31 PM, cemil...@aol.com wrote: Not owning a K3, but have the KX3..and other rigs! Perhaps disconnecting the antenna (before and during an electrical storm) from the shack hardware makes little boards like the K103 enjoy a longer life. Just suggesting. No disrespect in this comment. 73 Chuck W4MIL -Original Message- From: David Gilbert To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2022 5:15 pm Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode Yes, for sure. That little board seems to have by far the poorest reliability history of anything in the K3. Dave AB7E On 8/23/2022 2:05 PM, Al Lorona wrote: > Ah, lightning. Whoever performs an analysis of the KIO3 failure mode after being struck by lightning might have what's necessary for a very lucrative business. > Actually, I'm surprised that the board hasn't already been reverse engineered in China, enabling an aftermarket for KIO3 replacements. I bet everybody on this reflector living east of the Rockies would buy two of them in anticipation of future thunderstorms. > Al W6LX/4 > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ab7e...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to cemil...@aol.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
Not owning a K3, but have the KX3..and other rigs! Perhaps disconnecting the antenna (before and during an electrical storm) from the shack hardware makes little boards like the K103 enjoy a longer life. Just suggesting. No disrespect in this comment. 73ChuckW4MIL -Original Message- From: David Gilbert To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2022 5:15 pm Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode Yes, for sure. That little board seems to have by far the poorest reliability history of anything in the K3. Dave AB7E On 8/23/2022 2:05 PM, Al Lorona wrote: > Ah, lightning. Whoever performs an analysis of the KIO3 failure mode after > being struck by lightning might have what's necessary for a very lucrative > business. > Actually, I'm surprised that the board hasn't already been reverse engineered > in China, enabling an aftermarket for KIO3 replacements. I bet everybody on > this reflector living east of the Rockies would buy two of them in > anticipation of future thunderstorms. > Al W6LX/4 > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ab7e...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to cemil...@aol.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] KIO3 failure mode
Yes, for sure. That little board seems to have by far the poorest reliability history of anything in the K3. Dave AB7E On 8/23/2022 2:05 PM, Al Lorona wrote: Ah, lightning. Whoever performs an analysis of the KIO3 failure mode after being struck by lightning might have what's necessary for a very lucrative business. Actually, I'm surprised that the board hasn't already been reverse engineered in China, enabling an aftermarket for KIO3 replacements. I bet everybody on this reflector living east of the Rockies would buy two of them in anticipation of future thunderstorms. Al W6LX/4 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ab7e...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
