Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

Yes, the net result is the same as what Frank posted.
My article goes a bit further into explaining that there are multiple 
audio level controls, and that none of them should be near the lower or 
upper extremes (because the adjustment gets "touchy").
Just how many audio level controls there are depends on the software 
application and the drivers for the soundcard.  Some soundcards 
(interface boxes) have a rotary control.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/2/2019 4:19 PM, kennedyjp wrote:
Thanks Don. I will look at that info also. Essentially I assume it's 
the same as Frank just posted. You guys are awesome. You would think 
after 65 years of haming I would get this stuff figured out

 LOL. Gettin' old ain't for sissies  hi !




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[kennedyjp]

Thanks Don. I will look at that info also. Essentially I assume it's the same 
as Frank just posted. You guys are awesome. You would think after 65 years of 
haming I would get this stuff figured out LOL. Gettin' old ain't for sissies  
hi !Thank again guysJim W7OUU Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT 5G 
Evolution capable smartphone
 Original message From: Don Wilhelm  
Date: 12/2/19  14:09  (GMT-07:00) To: Jim Kennedy  Cc: 
elecraft  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal 
Behavior Jim,With audio data modes (even if you are using SSB instead of DATA 
A), you must have 4 bars solid on the ALC meter with the 5th bar flashing - 
that is the NO ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX3/KX2.If you do not have sufficient 
audio, the K3 will "power hunt" trying to bring the power up to the power that 
was requested.Sorry that I did not observe that you were using a data mode, or 
I would have pointed to that first.If your audio level is 'touchy', then likely 
one or more of the audio controls is at an extreme (not near mid-position).  
Refer to the article on my website www.w3fpr.com to see how to set the audio to 
your best advantage.73,Don W3FPROn 12/2/2019 3:29 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:> Hi 
again Don, this morning on a cold start the K3 power indicator tracked with the 
Bird watt meter. Technically competent and not one to give up easily I 
continued to trouble shoot almost to the verge of paralysis analysis. I put the 
K3 on the bench and lashed it up as it were in the station including 
Tigertronics USB digital interface. Fired it up and again had low power slowly 
climbing operating in FT8 using the tune tab in the WSJT program to key the 
rig. Hmmm better check SSB,FM,CW,AM modes. What the "H" I got full output on 
the Bird 43 !!! Back to TX Data mode. Hit the tune tab in FT8 and power coming 
up slowly again ?? Something wrong in the TX DATA mode ?? Well as it turns out, 
somehow the TX audio setting on the Tigertroncis USB interface got reduced and 
it was a simple matter of not enough transmit audio in TX Data mode. Turned up 
TX audio on the Tigertronics USB interface less than one division and "voila" 
full power output. I'm still a little puzzled about the symptoms but for now my 
K3 is back in operation. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and help. 
This is a great group of hams.  Excuse me while I go wipe the egg off my face. 
Jeesh !>>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[kennedyjp]

Thanks Frank, I will do as you suggested.  JimW7OUU Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 
S9+, an AT 5G Evolution capable smartphone
 Original message From: donov...@starpower.net Date: 12/2/19  
13:57  (GMT-07:00) To: elecraft  Subject: Re: 
[Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior Hi Jim,The symptom you observed is exactly how 
the K3 normally operateswhen the audio level is too low.The correct way to set 
up your audio level to:- place the K3 in TX TEST mode- click the TUNE button on 
the WSJT-X main screen- adjust the audio level to display four bars with the 
fifth bar flickering  on the ALC display.   The K3 COMP display should read 
zero.- click the WSJT-X TUNE button once more- place the K3 in TX NORMAL mode- 
set the K3 PWR control for desired output power.- NEVER use the WSJT-X power 
slider or the K3 MIC control to   adjust the output power.  Use them only to 
maintain four barswith the fifth bar flickering on the K3 ALC displayGood 
luck!73FrankW3LPL From: "Jim Kennedy" To: "donwilh" 
Cc: "elecraft" Sent: Monday, 
December 2, 2019 8:29:43 PMSubject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal BehaviorHi again 
Don, this morning on a cold start the K3 power indicator tracked with the Bird 
watt meter. Technically competent and not one to give up easily I continued to 
trouble shoot almost to the verge of paralysis analysis. I put the K3 on the 
bench and lashed it up as it were in the station including Tigertronics USB 
digital interface. Fired it up and again had low power slowly climbing 
operating in FT8 using the tune tab in the WSJT program to key the rig. Hmmm 
better check SSB,FM,CW,AM modes. What the "H" I got full output on the Bird 43 
!!! Back to TX Data mode. Hit the tune tab in FT8 and power coming up slowly 
again ?? Something wrong in the TX DATA mode ?? Well as it turns out, somehow 
the TX audio setting on the Tigertroncis USB interface got reduced and it was a 
simple matter of not enough transmit audio in TX Data mode. Turned up TX audio 
on the Tigertronics USB interface less than one division and "voila" full power 
output. I'm still a little puzzled about the symp toms but for now my K3 is 
back in operation. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and help. This is 
a great group of hams.  Excuse me while I go wipe the egg off my face. Jeesh 
!JimW7OUU   - Original Message -From: "Jim Kennedy" 
To: "donwilh" Cc: "elecraft" 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 4:46:00 PMSubject: Re: 
[Elecraft] K3 Abnormal BehaviorHi Don, I have checked it with both my Bird 43 
and Daiwa CN801. Both with the same results. Now with the K3 warmed up there is 
no problem. I will have to wait for another cold start since I didn't even 
bother to see if the power meter in the K3 was tracking with the other two. 
I'll post again when on a cold start if the K3 tracks the same.Tnx es 
73'sJimW7OUU- Original Message -From: "Don Wilhelm" 
To: "Jim Kennedy" , "elecraft" 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 11:09:08 AMSubject: 
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal BehaviorJim,How were you observing the power 
increase?  There is a big difference in how your situation can be analyzed 
depending on whether the power increase is noted by the K3 display or whether 
with an external wattmeter.I am not saying that you have no problem, but that 
the area to look can be different depending on how you observe the power 
increase.73,Don W3FPROn 11/30/2019 1:26 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:> Fired up my K3 
the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the autotuner was searching 
for a solution the power output was slowing rising. Not so unusual right . But, 
after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading about 40w of output. I went 
into tune mode again (key down), the antenna was matched 1:1 but the output was 
slowly coming up so I let it continue. A slow climb to full output after about 
a minute or so was achieved. I have eliminated the tuner as the problem by 
using it on another transceiver. I'm thinking it may be a heat related issue 
somewhere, my guess is it's possibly on the PA board and possibly a solder 
problem, but then again it could be that same issue anywhere in the drive 
chain. If I don't transmit for a period of time it will repeat but not as bad 
as from a cold start. No other abnormal behavior has been noted. Any ideas ? 
Thanks in advance. Serial # 
3378__Elecraft 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

With audio data modes (even if you are using SSB instead of DATA A), you 
must have 4 bars solid on the ALC meter with the 5th bar flashing - that 
is the NO ALC point for the K3/K3S/KX3/KX2.
If you do not have sufficient audio, the K3 will "power hunt" trying to 
bring the power up to the power that was requested.


Sorry that I did not observe that you were using a data mode, or I would 
have pointed to that first.
If your audio level is 'touchy', then likely one or more of the audio 
controls is at an extreme (not near mid-position).  Refer to the article 
on my website www.w3fpr.com to see how to set the audio to your best 
advantage.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/2/2019 3:29 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:

Hi again Don, this morning on a cold start the K3 power indicator tracked with the Bird watt meter. 
Technically competent and not one to give up easily I continued to trouble shoot almost to the 
verge of paralysis analysis. I put the K3 on the bench and lashed it up as it were in the station 
including Tigertronics USB digital interface. Fired it up and again had low power slowly climbing 
operating in FT8 using the tune tab in the WSJT program to key the rig. Hmmm better check 
SSB,FM,CW,AM modes. What the "H" I got full output on the Bird 43 !!! Back to TX Data 
mode. Hit the tune tab in FT8 and power coming up slowly again ?? Something wrong in the TX DATA 
mode ?? Well as it turns out, somehow the TX audio setting on the Tigertroncis USB interface got 
reduced and it was a simple matter of not enough transmit audio in TX Data mode. Turned up TX audio 
on the Tigertronics USB interface less than one division and "voila" full power output. 
I'm still a little puzzled about the symptoms but for now my K3 is back in operation. Thanks to 
everyone who offered suggestions and help. This is a great group of hams.  Excuse me while I go 
wipe the egg off my face. Jeesh !





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Jim, 


The symptom you observed is exactly how the K3 normally operates 
when the audio level is too low. 


The correct way to set up your audio level to: 


- place the K3 in TX TEST mode 


- click the TUNE button on the WSJT-X main screen 


- adjust the audio level to display four bars with the fifth bar flickering 
on the ALC display. The K3 COMP display should read zero. 


- click the WSJT-X TUNE button once more 


- place the K3 in TX NORMAL mode 


- set the K3 PWR control for desired output power. 


- NEVER use the WSJT-X power slider or the K3 MIC control to 
adjust the output power. Use them only to maintain four bars 
with the fifth bar flickering on the K3 ALC display 


Good luck! 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 






- Original Message -

From: "Jim Kennedy"  
To: "donwilh"  
Cc: "elecraft"  
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:29:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior 

Hi again Don, this morning on a cold start the K3 power indicator tracked with 
the Bird watt meter. Technically competent and not one to give up easily I 
continued to trouble shoot almost to the verge of paralysis analysis. I put the 
K3 on the bench and lashed it up as it were in the station including 
Tigertronics USB digital interface. Fired it up and again had low power slowly 
climbing operating in FT8 using the tune tab in the WSJT program to key the 
rig. Hmmm better check SSB,FM,CW,AM modes. What the "H" I got full output on 
the Bird 43 !!! Back to TX Data mode. Hit the tune tab in FT8 and power coming 
up slowly again ?? Something wrong in the TX DATA mode ?? Well as it turns out, 
somehow the TX audio setting on the Tigertroncis USB interface got reduced and 
it was a simple matter of not enough transmit audio in TX Data mode. Turned up 
TX audio on the Tigertronics USB interface less than one division and "voila" 
full power output. I'm still a little puzzled about the symp
  
toms but for now my K3 is back in operation. Thanks to everyone who offered 
suggestions and help. This is a great group of hams. Excuse me while I go wipe 
the egg off my face. Jeesh ! 

Jim 
W7OUU 

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Kennedy"  
To: "donwilh"  
Cc: "elecraft"  
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 4:46:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior 

Hi Don, I have checked it with both my Bird 43 and Daiwa CN801. Both with the 
same results. Now with the K3 warmed up there is no problem. I will have to 
wait for another cold start since I didn't even bother to see if the power 
meter in the K3 was tracking with the other two. I'll post again when on a cold 
start if the K3 tracks the same. 

Tnx es 73's 
Jim 
W7OUU 

- Original Message - 
From: "Don Wilhelm"  
To: "Jim Kennedy" , "elecraft" 
 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 11:09:08 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior 

Jim, 

How were you observing the power increase? There is a big difference in 
how your situation can be analyzed depending on whether the power 
increase is noted by the K3 display or whether with an external wattmeter. 

I am not saying that you have no problem, but that the area to look can 
be different depending on how you observe the power increase. 

73, 
Don W3FPR 

On 11/30/2019 1:26 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote: 
> Fired up my K3 the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the autotuner 
> was searching for a solution the power output was slowing rising. Not so 
> unusual right . But, after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading about 
> 40w of output. I went into tune mode again (key down), the antenna was 
> matched 1:1 but the output was slowly coming up so I let it continue. A slow 
> climb to full output after about a minute or so was achieved. I have 
> eliminated the tuner as the problem by using it on another transceiver. I'm 
> thinking it may be a heat related issue somewhere, my guess is it's possibly 
> on the PA board and possibly a solder problem, but then again it could be 
> that same issue anywhere in the drive chain. If I don't transmit for a period 
> of time it will repeat but not as bad as from a cold start. No other abnormal 
> behavior has been noted. Any ideas ? Thanks in advance. Serial # 3378 
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This li

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Jim Kennedy]

Hi again Don, this morning on a cold start the K3 power indicator tracked with 
the Bird watt meter. Technically competent and not one to give up easily I 
continued to trouble shoot almost to the verge of paralysis analysis. I put the 
K3 on the bench and lashed it up as it were in the station including 
Tigertronics USB digital interface. Fired it up and again had low power slowly 
climbing operating in FT8 using the tune tab in the WSJT program to key the 
rig. Hmmm better check SSB,FM,CW,AM modes. What the "H" I got full output on 
the Bird 43 !!! Back to TX Data mode. Hit the tune tab in FT8 and power coming 
up slowly again ?? Something wrong in the TX DATA mode ?? Well as it turns out, 
somehow the TX audio setting on the Tigertroncis USB interface got reduced and 
it was a simple matter of not enough transmit audio in TX Data mode. Turned up 
TX audio on the Tigertronics USB interface less than one division and "voila" 
full power output. I'm still a little puzzled about the symp
 toms but for now my K3 is back in operation. Thanks to everyone who offered 
suggestions and help. This is a great group of hams.  Excuse me while I go wipe 
the egg off my face. Jeesh !

Jim
W7OUU   

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Kennedy" 
To: "donwilh" 
Cc: "elecraft" 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 4:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

Hi Don, I have checked it with both my Bird 43 and Daiwa CN801. Both with the 
same results. Now with the K3 warmed up there is no problem. I will have to 
wait for another cold start since I didn't even bother to see if the power 
meter in the K3 was tracking with the other two. I'll post again when on a cold 
start if the K3 tracks the same.

Tnx es 73's
Jim
W7OUU

- Original Message -
From: "Don Wilhelm" 
To: "Jim Kennedy" , "elecraft" 

Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 11:09:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

Jim,

How were you observing the power increase?  There is a big difference in 
how your situation can be analyzed depending on whether the power 
increase is noted by the K3 display or whether with an external wattmeter.

I am not saying that you have no problem, but that the area to look can 
be different depending on how you observe the power increase.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/30/2019 1:26 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:
> Fired up my K3 the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the autotuner 
> was searching for a solution the power output was slowing rising. Not so 
> unusual right . But, after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading about 
> 40w of output. I went into tune mode again (key down), the antenna was 
> matched 1:1 but the output was slowly coming up so I let it continue. A slow 
> climb to full output after about a minute or so was achieved. I have 
> eliminated the tuner as the problem by using it on another transceiver. I'm 
> thinking it may be a heat related issue somewhere, my guess is it's possibly 
> on the PA board and possibly a solder problem, but then again it could be 
> that same issue anywhere in the drive chain. If I don't transmit for a period 
> of time it will repeat but not as bad as from a cold start. No other abnormal 
> behavior has been noted. Any ideas ? Thanks in advance. Serial # 3378
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Jim Kennedy]

Hi Don, I have checked it with both my Bird 43 and Daiwa CN801. Both with the 
same results. Now with the K3 warmed up there is no problem. I will have to 
wait for another cold start since I didn't even bother to see if the power 
meter in the K3 was tracking with the other two. I'll post again when on a cold 
start if the K3 tracks the same.

Tnx es 73's
Jim
W7OUU

- Original Message -
From: "Don Wilhelm" 
To: "Jim Kennedy" , "elecraft" 

Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 11:09:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

Jim,

How were you observing the power increase?  There is a big difference in 
how your situation can be analyzed depending on whether the power 
increase is noted by the K3 display or whether with an external wattmeter.

I am not saying that you have no problem, but that the area to look can 
be different depending on how you observe the power increase.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/30/2019 1:26 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:
> Fired up my K3 the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the autotuner 
> was searching for a solution the power output was slowing rising. Not so 
> unusual right . But, after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading about 
> 40w of output. I went into tune mode again (key down), the antenna was 
> matched 1:1 but the output was slowly coming up so I let it continue. A slow 
> climb to full output after about a minute or so was achieved. I have 
> eliminated the tuner as the problem by using it on another transceiver. I'm 
> thinking it may be a heat related issue somewhere, my guess is it's possibly 
> on the PA board and possibly a solder problem, but then again it could be 
> that same issue anywhere in the drive chain. If I don't transmit for a period 
> of time it will repeat but not as bad as from a cold start. No other abnormal 
> behavior has been noted. Any ideas ? Thanks in advance. Serial # 3378
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

How were you observing the power increase?  There is a big difference in 
how your situation can be analyzed depending on whether the power 
increase is noted by the K3 display or whether with an external wattmeter.


I am not saying that you have no problem, but that the area to look can 
be different depending on how you observe the power increase.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/30/2019 1:26 PM, Jim Kennedy wrote:

Fired up my K3 the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the autotuner 
was searching for a solution the power output was slowing rising. Not so 
unusual right . But, after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading about 40w 
of output. I went into tune mode again (key down), the antenna was matched 1:1 
but the output was slowly coming up so I let it continue. A slow climb to full 
output after about a minute or so was achieved. I have eliminated the tuner as 
the problem by using it on another transceiver. I'm thinking it may be a heat 
related issue somewhere, my guess is it's possibly on the PA board and possibly 
a solder problem, but then again it could be that same issue anywhere in the 
drive chain. If I don't transmit for a period of time it will repeat but not as 
bad as from a cold start. No other abnormal behavior has been noted. Any ideas 
? Thanks in advance. Serial # 3378

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

My K3S has a bit of a slow power rise after any power change.  I wouldn't say 
it takes a minute, but I was told this occurs as the power management system 
makes adjustments. This is done in order to prevent ALC overshoot. 

With the ATU bypassed I have my TUNE power set to 20 watts.  That is adequate 
for my KAT500 and drives my KPA500 to rated output.  I don't think this affects 
the K3S ATU tune power. 

73
Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 30, 2019, at 2:01 PM, Clark Macaulay  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Your unit is about the same age as mine (#3645) which was sent to Elecraft
> a few months ago for what I thought would be installation of some upgrades
> I couldn't do myself.  Turns out they found (and fixed) several items
> including two resistors in the LPA that appeared burned and were replaced
> with "more robust components".  Your problem sounds similar to what I had
> seen but not as severe.
> 
> My K3 came back acting like a new puppy.  I'm not saying yours needs to be
> sent in; just wanted to share what my experience with a similar s/n rig had
> been.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Clark, WU4B
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 1:26 PM Jim Kennedy  wrote:
>> 
>> Fired up my K3 the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the
>> autotuner was searching for a solution the power output was slowing rising.
>> Not so unusual right . But, after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading
>> about 40w of output. I went into tune mode again (key down), the antenna
>> was matched 1:1 but the output was slowly coming up so I let it continue. A
>> slow climb to full output after about a minute or so was achieved. I have
>> eliminated the tuner as the problem by using it on another transceiver. I'm
>> thinking it may be a heat related issue somewhere, my guess is it's
>> possibly on the PA board and possibly a solder problem, but then again it
>> could be that same issue anywhere in the drive chain. If I don't transmit
>> for a period of time it will repeat but not as bad as from a cold start. No
>> other abnormal behavior has been noted. Any ideas ? Thanks in advance.
>> Serial # 3378
>> 
>> Jim
>> W7OUU
>> 
>> 
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>> Message delivered to clark.macau...@gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 73,
> 
> Clark, WU4B
> QRPARCI #10815
> SKCC #3892
> NAQCC #5055
> CWOPS #1869
> Collins Collectors #AC90-12432
> Southeastern DX Club 
> North Georgia QRP Club 
> 
> 
> *"It is vain to do with more what can be done with less."*
> *Attributed to *William of Occam (1288 AD - 1348 AD)
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> Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net 
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Abnormal Behavior

[Clark Macaulay]

Jim,

Your unit is about the same age as mine (#3645) which was sent to Elecraft
a few months ago for what I thought would be installation of some upgrades
I couldn't do myself.  Turns out they found (and fixed) several items
including two resistors in the LPA that appeared burned and were replaced
with "more robust components".  Your problem sounds similar to what I had
seen but not as severe.

My K3 came back acting like a new puppy.  I'm not saying yours needs to be
sent in; just wanted to share what my experience with a similar s/n rig had
been.

Cheers,

Clark, WU4B

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 1:26 PM Jim Kennedy  wrote:

> Fired up my K3 the last couple of mornings and noticed this. As the
> autotuner was searching for a solution the power output was slowing rising.
> Not so unusual right . But, after the tuner made a match the K3 was reading
> about 40w of output. I went into tune mode again (key down), the antenna
> was matched 1:1 but the output was slowly coming up so I let it continue. A
> slow climb to full output after about a minute or so was achieved. I have
> eliminated the tuner as the problem by using it on another transceiver. I'm
> thinking it may be a heat related issue somewhere, my guess is it's
> possibly on the PA board and possibly a solder problem, but then again it
> could be that same issue anywhere in the drive chain. If I don't transmit
> for a period of time it will repeat but not as bad as from a cold start. No
> other abnormal behavior has been noted. Any ideas ? Thanks in advance.
> Serial # 3378
>
> Jim
> W7OUU
>
>
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-- 
73,

Clark, WU4B
QRPARCI #10815
SKCC #3892
NAQCC #5055
CWOPS #1869
Collins Collectors #AC90-12432
Southeastern DX Club 
North Georgia QRP Club 


*"It is vain to do with more what can be done with less."*
*Attributed to *William of Occam (1288 AD - 1348 AD)
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