Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread Ted Bryant 
" The previous times ..." - ?

Good grief, how many times has this FET failed?

Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2018 3:09 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts 
indicated

If you see low power it's a clue.  I operate my K3S + KPA500 as a 500W 
transceiver, except when I'm running IMD tests, so the last time it happened I 
was notified of bad audio.

The previous times the wattmeter or IMD tests were the clues.

Wes  N7WS

On 12/13/2018 12:03 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> It would be nice to know what conditions caused this FET failure. Is there
> an easy way to know when this failure occurs other than getting crappy
> audio reports?
>
> John KK9A
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread Wes Stewart 

Scroll down to the bottom of this and you will see it was me :-)

I have made hundreds of IMD measurements on both my K3 and K3S using the 
built-in two-tone generator and an SDR-IQ/SpectraVue as a spectrum analyzer.  I 
have a string of power attenuators followed by a step attenuator for calibration 
purposes.  Within its linear range the SDR-IQ is remarkably good.  This is a 
laborious process, sped up a little with the K3 utility and saved instrument 
states in SpectraVue. One nice thing about this setup is that I can actually 
record the spectrum display and play it back later for analysis just as if it 
was live.  A guy smarter than I could probably automate this; I put the numbers 
in an Excel spreadsheet and let do the charting.


What you can find doing this is that the IMD is sensitive not only to power and 
voltage but to frequency.  Pick the right frequency and IMD can be -40 dBc, pick 
the wrong one and it's -20 dBc; same radio, same supply voltage and output power.


Wes  N7WS




On 12/13/2018 3:50 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Someone suggested performing 2 tone tests.  Seems reasonable.

I tried that with my K3S into a dummy load and an a RF sample fed to my RSP1 
receiver using HDSDR  software.   I find that it does indeed display the IMD 
products from the 2 tones.  I now need to study the results a bit more to 
evaluate the test.


{Oh, don't forget to set 2 TONE to OFF mode or you'll get a surprise when you 
jump into that SSB rag chew group.  The comments won't be very kind.}


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/13/2018 1:03 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

It would be nice to know what conditions caused this FET failure. Is there
an easy way to know when this failure occurs other than getting crappy
audio reports?

John KK9A


Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) wrote:


This happened to me at the start of CQWW-SSB in October. My K3s is finally
enroute back home after a 6 week stay in the Elecraft Repair Department
with a blown FET in the HPA, cause unknown. And I know I've been told I'm
not the only one to suffer this failure, and it sounds like this is now a
known issue.

Does anybody have an idea as to what could be causing these FETs to fail,
or steps to consider to lessen the chances of it happening? I can't speak
for anybody else, but I baby the heck out of my gear and was shocked to
discover it failed, when feeding directly into a KPA-1500.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces at
mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:55 PM
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts
indicated

If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a
narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the
first
pair of sidebands.

I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown
FET in the HPA.

Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX 

Someone suggested performing 2 tone tests.  Seems reasonable.

I tried that with my K3S into a dummy load and an a RF sample fed to my 
RSP1 receiver using HDSDR  software.   I find that it does indeed 
display the IMD products from the 2 tones.  I now need to study the 
results a bit more to evaluate the test.


{Oh, don't forget to set 2 TONE to OFF mode or you'll get a surprise 
when you jump into that SSB rag chew group.  The comments won't be very 
kind.}


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 12/13/2018 1:03 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

It would be nice to know what conditions caused this FET failure. Is there
an easy way to know when this failure occurs other than getting crappy
audio reports?

John KK9A


Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) wrote:


This happened to me at the start of CQWW-SSB in October. My K3s is finally
enroute back home after a 6 week stay in the Elecraft Repair Department
with a blown FET in the HPA, cause unknown. And I know I've been told I'm
not the only one to suffer this failure, and it sounds like this is now a
known issue.

Does anybody have an idea as to what could be causing these FETs to fail,
or steps to consider to lessen the chances of it happening? I can't speak
for anybody else, but I baby the heck out of my gear and was shocked to
discover it failed, when feeding directly into a KPA-1500.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces at
mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:55 PM
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts
indicated

If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a
narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the
first
pair of sidebands.

I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown
FET in the HPA.

Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread Wes Stewart 
If you see low power it's a clue.  I operate my K3S + KPA500 as a 500W 
transceiver, except when I'm running IMD tests, so the last time it happened I 
was notified of bad audio.


The previous times the wattmeter or IMD tests were the clues.

Wes  N7WS

On 12/13/2018 12:03 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

It would be nice to know what conditions caused this FET failure. Is there
an easy way to know when this failure occurs other than getting crappy
audio reports?

John KK9A



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) 
That's how I discovered it. Normally I can work anybody I hear, but at the 
start of WW I was working one in ten that I called in S, and after one long, 
difficult exchange I was told I sounded terrible. 

The day before I'd been working a Dxpedition on CW and FT8 and no problem, 
until I started calling on 15m FT8. The op was begging, I was running over 
1300W, signals were strong and I couldn't make a Q for love or money with 'em. 
I chalked it up to one-way propagation but I suspect that was about the time 
the failure occurred. I was feeding the KPA-1500 with whatever power it needed 
to get about 1300-1400W out. Likewise, for CQWW, I was doing the same.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
DXCC Card Checker/CQ-WAZ Checkpoint

www.facebook.com/W2IRT

-Original Message-
From: j...@kk9a.com [mailto:j...@kk9a.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2018 2:04 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc: li...@w2irt.net
Subject: re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts 
indicated

It would be nice to know what conditions caused this FET failure. Is there
an easy way to know when this failure occurs other than getting crappy
audio reports?

John KK9A


Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) wrote:


This happened to me at the start of CQWW-SSB in October. My K3s is finally
enroute back home after a 6 week stay in the Elecraft Repair Department
with a blown FET in the HPA, cause unknown. And I know I've been told I'm
not the only one to suffer this failure, and it sounds like this is now a
known issue.

Does anybody have an idea as to what could be causing these FETs to fail,
or steps to consider to lessen the chances of it happening? I can't speak
for anybody else, but I baby the heck out of my gear and was shocked to
discover it failed, when feeding directly into a KPA-1500.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces at
mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:55 PM
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts
indicated

If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a
narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the
first
pair of sidebands.

I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown
FET in the HPA.

Wes  N7WS


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread j...@kk9a.com 
It would be nice to know what conditions caused this FET failure. Is there
an easy way to know when this failure occurs other than getting crappy
audio reports?

John KK9A


Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) wrote:


This happened to me at the start of CQWW-SSB in October. My K3s is finally
enroute back home after a 6 week stay in the Elecraft Repair Department
with a blown FET in the HPA, cause unknown. And I know I've been told I'm
not the only one to suffer this failure, and it sounds like this is now a
known issue.

Does anybody have an idea as to what could be causing these FETs to fail,
or steps to consider to lessen the chances of it happening? I can't speak
for anybody else, but I baby the heck out of my gear and was shocked to
discover it failed, when feeding directly into a KPA-1500.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces at
mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:55 PM
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts
indicated

If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a
narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the
first
pair of sidebands.

I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown
FET in the HPA.

Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-13 Thread Nr4c 
Ok. You’re right. Must have had my mind on something else. Read too many 
emails. 

Merry Christmas. Or you know, whatever?!! 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Dec 12, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Peter Dougherty (W2IRT)  wrote:
> 
> This happened to me at the start of CQWW-SSB in October. My K3s is finally 
> enroute back home after a 6 week stay in the Elecraft Repair Department with 
> a blown FET in the HPA, cause unknown. And I know I've been told I'm not the 
> only one to suffer this failure, and it sounds like this is now a known 
> issue. 
> 
> Does anybody have an idea as to what could be causing these FETs to fail, or 
> steps to consider to lessen the chances of it happening? I can't speak for 
> anybody else, but I baby the heck out of my gear and was shocked to discover 
> it failed, when feeding directly into a KPA-1500.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Dougherty, W2IRT
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:55 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts 
> indicated
> 
> If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a 
> narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the 
> first 
> pair of sidebands.
> 
> I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown 
> FET in the HPA.
> 
> Wes  N7WS
> 
> 
>> On 12/12/2018 12:47 PM, N4ZR wrote:
>> Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, and it 
>> is 
>> only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a dummy load. Power 
>> output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results seen on all bands. What 
>> could possibly be going on here?  Back to Watsonville?
>> 
>> The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.
>> 
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread Peter Dougherty (W2IRT) 
This happened to me at the start of CQWW-SSB in October. My K3s is finally 
enroute back home after a 6 week stay in the Elecraft Repair Department with a 
blown FET in the HPA, cause unknown. And I know I've been told I'm not the only 
one to suffer this failure, and it sounds like this is now a known issue. 

Does anybody have an idea as to what could be causing these FETs to fail, or 
steps to consider to lessen the chances of it happening? I can't speak for 
anybody else, but I baby the heck out of my gear and was shocked to discover it 
failed, when feeding directly into a KPA-1500.


Regards,
Peter Dougherty, W2IRT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:55 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts 
indicated

If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a 
narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the first 
pair of sidebands.

I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown 
FET in the HPA.

Wes  N7WS


On 12/12/2018 12:47 PM, N4ZR wrote:
> Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, and it is 
> only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a dummy load. Power 
> output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results seen on all bands. What 
> could possibly be going on here?  Back to Watsonville?
>
> The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread Wes Stewart 
If you have another receiver, run a two-test and listen to the K3 output in a 
narrow BW.  Ideally, the two tones will be considerably stronger than the first 
pair of sidebands.


I suspect they won't be, you'll have a lot more than two and you have a blown 
FET in the HPA.


Wes  N7WS


On 12/12/2018 12:47 PM, N4ZR wrote:
Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, and it is 
only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a dummy load. Power 
output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results seen on all bands. What 
could possibly be going on here?  Back to Watsonville?


The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread Don Wilhelm 

Pete,

On one or both of the bands that failed, try running the TX Gain 
Calibration as described in the manual - that is done on a per band 
basis, and the manual method gives more time for the power to settle.


If it still fails, contact Elecraft support.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/12/2018 4:09 PM, N4ZR wrote:
Ran the TX Gain calibration from the K3 Utility and it failed on 160 and 
80, then aborted because power readings did not converge


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/12/2018 3:40 PM, K9ZTV wrote:

Pete ...

The K3 is capable of power output on a per-band basis. Any chance you 
have it set for 25 watts on ten meters?


73,

Kent K9ZTV


On Dec 12, 2018, at 1:47 PM, N4ZR  wrote:

Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, 
and it is only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a 
dummy load. Power output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results 
seen on all bands. What could possibly be going on here? Back to 
Watsonville?


The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.

--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread Rick WA6NHC 
Make sure the dummy load is connected; the cable is 'good'; that you are 
not routing the serial data via the P3 (as if you were updating 
firmware; there is sometimes a slight stumble in communications 
otherwise) and that your supply is giving appropriate voltages under load.


Try this a few times, it sometimes needs that to pass.  Once it passes, 
save that config, then make sure it passes again.  And again until 
you're satisfied.


Then check the power out at 100W.

Failing that, time to call support.


Rick nhc

On 12/12/2018 1:09 PM, N4ZR wrote:
Ran the TX Gain calibration from the K3 Utility and it failed on 160 
and 80, then aborted because power readings did not converge


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/12/2018 3:40 PM, K9ZTV wrote:

Pete ...

The K3 is capable of power output on a per-band basis. Any chance you 
have it set for 25 watts on ten meters?


73,

Kent K9ZTV


On Dec 12, 2018, at 1:47 PM, N4ZR  wrote:

Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, 
and it is only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a 
dummy load. Power output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results 
seen on all bands. What could possibly be going on here? Back to 
Watsonville?


The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.

--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread N4ZR 
Ran the TX Gain calibration from the K3 Utility and it failed on 160 and 
80, then aborted because power readings did not converge


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/12/2018 3:40 PM, K9ZTV wrote:

Pete ...

The K3 is capable of power output on a per-band basis. Any chance you 
have it set for 25 watts on ten meters?


73,

Kent K9ZTV


On Dec 12, 2018, at 1:47 PM, N4ZR  wrote:

Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, 
and it is only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a 
dummy load. Power output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results 
seen on all bands. What could possibly be going on here? Back to 
Watsonville?


The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.

--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread N4ZR 
Sorry, this was on CW. It occurs on all bands.  Is there a test (perhaps 
using TXCAL) that I could do to narrow down the cause?


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/12/2018 3:40 PM, K9ZTV wrote:

Pete ...

The K3 is capable of power output on a per-band basis.  Any chance you have it 
set for 25 watts on ten meters?

73,

Kent  K9ZTV


On Dec 12, 2018, at 1:47 PM, N4ZR  wrote:

Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, and it is 
only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a dummy load. Power output 
setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results seen on all bands. What could 
possibly be going on here?  Back to Watsonville?

The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.

--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Suddenly Putting Out Only 25 watts at 100 watts indicated

2018-12-12 Thread hawley, charles j jr 
Not enough info, how are you transmitting?

Chuck 
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack 

> On Dec 12, 2018, at 1:47 PM, N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> Transmitted on my K3 for the first time since the 10-meter contest, and it is 
> only showing 25 watts out on the built-in meter into a dummy load. Power 
> output setting of the K3 is 100W, and same results seen on all bands. What 
> could possibly be going on here?  Back to Watsonville?
> 
> The cruel karma of it all is that *yesterday* I ordered a KPA-1500.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at , now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu
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