Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
PLT/PLA and something (Smart TV?) using it to do an update? http://www.ban-plt.org.uk/what.php What it is http://www.ban-plt.org.uk/tests.php Some EMC test results. Graphic! Lots of other good info on that site. No affiliation whatosever. 73. Dave G0WBX. --- Original Message --- From: Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com Subject: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ? Using my K3 I was trying to pick up a ZL2 station (New Zealand) around 18.08 MHz this morning (about 9:50 AM PST) when this huge noise blanketed everything out. It was about 30/9 and absolutely solid across the spectrum shown on the P3. Using my KPA500, I switched to the 20 meter band -- same noise, same level, same broadband impact. I determined that the noise was from roughly 1400 KHz all the way up to 28.05 MHz. All about 30/9. About the time that I finished checking this full MF/HF spectrum of noise it switched off. Then, it switched on, and stayed on for about 5 seconds, then off again. I turned on my Icom R75. The next time the noise came on I checked it with the R75 and the same noise, same 30/9 level, same broad across the bands. Obviously man-made or under man control as it switched on and off and was on for various periods of time. This noise seems to be close, like generated in the neighborhood someplace. Anyone have ideas of the cause. You noise experts (Jim?) should have ideas. I was thinking maybe an arc welding machine but that is just a wild guess. It sure seems to be something that can be switched on and off. It is not periodic in that the on/off switching is at varying intervals. The longest on period is about one minute, the shortest on period about 2 seconds. And, it has been quiet for the last 10 minutes or so. Thanks for your help. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
On 2/19/2014 7:48 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: My neighbors with the PTV are very busy, gone a lot, and while he understands what his TV does to my reception, I acknowledge his right to have that TV. He has a right to HAVE it, but not to cause interference to you when he turns it on. Yes, Part 15, combined with the current state of FCC funding is a conundrum. The FCC has Rules, but not the staff to enforce them. Last night, I heard the FCC District Chief of the San Francisco office speak to a local ARES group about inspections. His advice in response to questions about resolving noise of the sort all of us are experiencing was next to useless. One of the most illuminating statements was off script, in response to a question. Are you doing a lot more inspections now than 27 years ago when you started working for the FCC? No, he replied, far fewer. When he started there were 400 field inspectors nationwide. Now there are 100. Thank you, small government. As a direct response to Phil's question, I'd look for a motor in some appliance that runs for a period and stops. I sleep with headphones listening to the radio. My XYL often arises earlier than I do, and when she does, I hear our coffee grinder making coffee. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Jim (and others)... From all the suggestions of the RFI, these are those that rank on the top of the list but the list below is not ordered in any way. 1. Some tool or machine operated by a neighbor or maybe even a construction/contractor guy working at a neighbor's house (really fits the use pattern of this interference). Such ideas include electric arc welder. 2. Nearby large Hospital Medical center with the typical surrounding medical offices including several imaging offices. The fact that I have never heard this interference before discounts this in my opinion. 3. HV power line arc'ing or interference of some sort (there are HV towers and power lines about 500 yards from my QTH although never have I had any interference from them that I know of. This RFI lasted for about 10 or 11 minutes and it has never repeated. During that 10 or 11 minutes it demonstrated a very much turned on and then turned off behavior with differing intervals. I am certain it was not in my house as I was the only one home at the time and everything in the house was turned off except for my own den/radio-shack/mancave/office where I was listening for weak DX in the CW zone of lower part of 10 meters. Even though I am in a suburban location, I am blessed with virtually no RFI. It occurs rarely but never long term (meaning more than a few hours at most). I did have RFI regularly from wall warts and a few other electronic gadgets but I have since (years ago) gotten rid of those. As far as I know, there are no known noisy plasma TVs in the area. A neighbor once asked what kind of HDTV to get and I told him specifically: Samsung LED and stay away from Plasma TVs. I own a Samsung LED. I do have one noise generator which is only a problem when my wife uses it -- that is our treadmill. When I am using it though, the noise is not a problem (at least not a problem to me). In the years I have been here and operating, I have only caused two incidents of RFI into next-door neighbor's equipment. Next door neighbors phones (years ago) and I put filters on the their phone lines and that fixed their problem. And, my other next door neighbor I have gotten into the speakers once when operating KW+ and CW on 20 meters (which is very rare for me). I don't operate at more than 500 watts at most these days and even that is rare. Haven't heard him complain in a number of years. K3/P3 currently sitting on 14.012 MHz and it is very quiet -- a few CW stations but the background noise level is very quiet this morning. 73, phil, K7PEH On Feb 20, 2014, at 9:05 AM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On 2/19/2014 7:48 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: My neighbors with the PTV are very busy, gone a lot, and while he understands what his TV does to my reception, I acknowledge his right to have that TV. He has a right to HAVE it, but not to cause interference to you when he turns it on. Yes, Part 15, combined with the current state of FCC funding is a conundrum. The FCC has Rules, but not the staff to enforce them. Last night, I heard the FCC District Chief of the San Francisco office speak to a local ARES group about inspections. His advice in response to questions about resolving noise of the sort all of us are experiencing was next to useless. One of the most illuminating statements was off script, in response to a question. Are you doing a lot more inspections now than 27 years ago when you started working for the FCC? No, he replied, far fewer. When he started there were 400 field inspectors nationwide. Now there are 100. Thank you, small government. As a direct response to Phil's question, I'd look for a motor in some appliance that runs for a period and stops. I sleep with headphones listening to the radio. My XYL often arises earlier than I do, and when she does, I hear our coffee grinder making coffee. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Drat, you left out 4. Old-time Luddite ham operating a rotary spark gap rig :-) 73, Phil w7ox (No, I'm not *that* old -- quite!) On 2/20/14, 10:25 AM, Phil Hystad wrote: Jim (and others)... From all the suggestions of the RFI, these are those that rank on the top of the list but the list below is not ordered in any way. 1. Some tool or machine operated by a neighbor or maybe even a construction/contractor guy working at a neighbor's house (really fits the use pattern of this interference). Such ideas include electric arc welder. 2. Nearby large Hospital Medical center with the typical surrounding medical offices including several imaging offices. The fact that I have never heard this interference before discounts this in my opinion. 3. HV power line arc'ing or interference of some sort (there are HV towers and power lines about 500 yards from my QTH although never have I had any interference from them that I know of. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
I get this type of noise when my wife uses a laminator. I also get a lot of sporadic noise in the morning around the time people get up which I assume are hair driers and curling irons. It really could be anything, but probably something one of your neighbors has. Good luck finding it, if it continues. 73- Tom - wa4ta From: phys...@mac.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:15:42 -0800 To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ? Using my K3 I was trying to pick up a ZL2 station (New Zealand) around 18.08 MHz this morning (about 9:50 AM PST) when this huge noise blanketed everything out. It was about 30/9 and absolutely solid across the spectrum shown on the P3. Using my KPA500, I switched to the 20 meter band -- same noise, same level, same broadband impact. I determined that the noise was from roughly 1400 KHz all the way up to 28.05 MHz. All about 30/9. About the time that I finished checking this full MF/HF spectrum of noise it switched off. Then, it switched on, and stayed on for about 5 seconds, then off again. I turned on my Icom R75. The next time the noise came on I checked it with the R75 and the same noise, same 30/9 level, same broad across the bands. Obviously man-made or under man control as it switched on and off and was on for various periods of time. This noise seems to be close, like generated in the neighborhood someplace. Anyone have ideas of the cause. You noise experts (Jim?) should have ideas. I was thinking maybe an arc welding machine but that is just a wild guess. It sure seems to be something that can be switched on and off. It is not periodic in that the on/off switching is at varying intervals. The longest on period is about one minute, the shortest on period about 2 seconds. And, it has been quiet for the last 10 minutes or so. Thanks for your help. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
One of the items that many overlook is in-freezer ice makers. They can make a lot of broadband noise when the heater is running. Yes - heater. Once the ice cubes are frozen they need to be ejected. In order to do this smoothly, the tray is heated up just enough to let the cubes pop loose. The heaters I've seen (and heard) use a type of PWM applied to a heating element, and the PWM creates broadband RFI. The heater is usually on for 1-2 minutes, but that probably varies by manufacturer. 73, matt W6NIA On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:29:22 -0500, you wrote: I get this type of noise when my wife uses a laminator. I also get a lot of sporadic noise in the morning around the time people get up which I assume are hair driers and curling irons. It really could be anything, but probably something one of your neighbors has. Good luck finding it, if it continues. 73- Tom - wa4ta From: phys...@mac.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:15:42 -0800 To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ? Using my K3 I was trying to pick up a ZL2 station (New Zealand) around 18.08 MHz this morning (about 9:50 AM PST) when this huge noise blanketed everything out. It was about 30/9 and absolutely solid across the spectrum shown on the P3. Using my KPA500, I switched to the 20 meter band -- same noise, same level, same broadband impact. I determined that the noise was from roughly 1400 KHz all the way up to 28.05 MHz. All about 30/9. About the time that I finished checking this full MF/HF spectrum of noise it switched off. Then, it switched on, and stayed on for about 5 seconds, then off again. I turned on my Icom R75. The next time the noise came on I checked it with the R75 and the same noise, same 30/9 level, same broad across the bands. Obviously man-made or under man control as it switched on and off and was on for various periods of time. This noise seems to be close, like generated in the neighborhood someplace. Anyone have ideas of the cause. You noise experts (Jim?) should have ideas. I was thinking maybe an arc welding machine but that is just a wild guess. It sure seems to be something that can be switched on and off. It is not periodic in that the on/off switching is at varying intervals. The longest on period is about one minute, the shortest on period about 2 seconds. And, it has been quiet for the last 10 minutes or so. Thanks for your help. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Matt Zilmer, W6NIA -- Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Matt, Well, then that source of this RFI is ruled out. Ice maker is off and I don't think it has been on in years -- it may not even work anymore. About the only time we might need ice is when we have a party of some sort (which is also rare) that needs ice and we just buy a bag down at the corner market. phil K7PEH On Feb 19, 2014, at 11:25 AM, Matt Zilmer mzil...@roadrunner.com wrote: One of the items that many overlook is in-freezer ice makers. They can make a lot of broadband noise when the heater is running. Yes - heater. Once the ice cubes are frozen they need to be ejected. In order to do this smoothly, the tray is heated up just enough to let the cubes pop loose. The heaters I've seen (and heard) use a type of PWM applied to a heating element, and the PWM creates broadband RFI. The heater is usually on for 1-2 minutes, but that probably varies by manufacturer. 73, matt W6NIA On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:29:22 -0500, you wrote: I get this type of noise when my wife uses a laminator. I also get a lot of sporadic noise in the morning around the time people get up which I assume are hair driers and curling irons. It really could be anything, but probably something one of your neighbors has. Good luck finding it, if it continues. 73- Tom - wa4ta From: phys...@mac.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:15:42 -0800 To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ? Using my K3 I was trying to pick up a ZL2 station (New Zealand) around 18.08 MHz this morning (about 9:50 AM PST) when this huge noise blanketed everything out. It was about 30/9 and absolutely solid across the spectrum shown on the P3. Using my KPA500, I switched to the 20 meter band -- same noise, same level, same broadband impact. I determined that the noise was from roughly 1400 KHz all the way up to 28.05 MHz. All about 30/9. About the time that I finished checking this full MF/HF spectrum of noise it switched off. Then, it switched on, and stayed on for about 5 seconds, then off again. I turned on my Icom R75. The next time the noise came on I checked it with the R75 and the same noise, same 30/9 level, same broad across the bands. Obviously man-made or under man control as it switched on and off and was on for various periods of time. This noise seems to be close, like generated in the neighborhood someplace. Anyone have ideas of the cause. You noise experts (Jim?) should have ideas. I was thinking maybe an arc welding machine but that is just a wild guess. It sure seems to be something that can be switched on and off. It is not periodic in that the on/off switching is at varying intervals. The longest on period is about one minute, the shortest on period about 2 seconds. And, it has been quiet for the last 10 minutes or so. Thanks for your help. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Matt Zilmer, W6NIA -- Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:15:42 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote: Anyone have ideas of the cause. The first thing to look at is your own house, of course. If you can very temporarily power your radio from a battery, even a UPS (but not one you are currently using, just to make sure that isn't the source), do that and turn the entire house power off at the breaker. When that is clean, proceed to look at the neighborhood. My favorite trick is to toss a small radio like a IC706 up on the dash with a sniffer antenna on it and drive around. One more trick that works well if you are experienced is to put the receiver on AM mode and listen to the characteristics of the noise. If you've been around awhile, you can sometimes tell a lot more about what you are really looking for. If you can, record it on AM and SSB, and have several knowledgeable people listen to it to help steer you to the source. Do it with a direct connection, not an acoustic pickup, and don't overdo your levels. A good clean recording can help your detective work. I believe plasma TVs can sound terrible. I can't say for sure, but I think I have heard one in my neighborhood. Nearest neighbors are over a quarter of a mile away. When the noise in question came up, I went to AM and it sounded like high frequency arcing all over the bands. Luckily, it hasn't been a problem lately. Good luck. I've been fighting one noise for over 20 years here. We can't seem to isolate the source. Gary __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
From your message this sounds like a new one you've not heard before. If so, let's hope it's temporary so you won't have to locate it. If new, unlikely your house or some large facility. If new and persistent, could be a neighbor has a new TV or appliance -- or the hospital with some new equipment adding to medical expenses. Temporary could be a contractor doing some work locally and (I hope) departing soon! 73, Phil w7ox On 2/19/14, 10:15 AM, Phil Hystad wrote: Anyone have ideas of the cause. You noise experts (Jim?) should have ideas. I was thinking maybe an arc welding machine but that is just a wild guess. It sure seems to be something that can be switched on and off. It is not periodic in that the on/off switching is at varying intervals. The longest on period is about one minute, the shortest on period about 2 seconds. And, it has been quiet for the last 10 minutes or so. Thanks for your help. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Me too, as high as possible. Gets rid of a massive amount of clicks and transmitted phase noise! Sorry, couldn't resist. On 2/19/2014 12:43 PM, mcduf...@ag0n.net wrote: My favorite trick is to toss a small radio like a IC706 up -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Just be careful it doesn't land on your head: The 706 is not what I would call a small radio. Better to use a KX1 (had to get an Elecraft rig into this to make it On Topic) :-) 73, Phil w7ox On 2/19/14, 1:25 PM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO wrote: Me too, as high as possible. Gets rid of a massive amount of clicks and transmitted phase noise! Sorry, couldn't resist. On 2/19/2014 12:43 PM, mcduf...@ag0n.net wrote: My favorite trick is to toss a small radio like a IC706 up __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
It is hard to describe this noise because it lacks any features at all. Think of atmospherics, like background noise that usually sits around S0 to S1 on the S-meter, more on 80 meters in the evening. That sort of thing. Now, make that noise a solid (no changes, no peaks, no features, absolutely flat across the spectrum) 30/9 at least. The waterfall display is virtually opaque with this noise. The frequency spectrum display is just a band of noise across the whole top part of the P3 display -- just a little space on top where the labels are written. Then, when I switched from band to band using the KPA500 band switching buttons -- exactly the same thing. But, if it did change, it was slightly worse down around 160 meter band but not enough to say for sure that it was really worse. Like I said, this would turn off and on a varying intervals just as if someone were turning on some instrument or tool to do things. The entire period of this RF noise and activity was about 10 minutes and it has now shown itself again. It is like someone hauled out their noise machine at 9:45 AM, starting doing things, and then at 9:55 AM or there abouts, he was done. phil On Feb 19, 2014, at 12:43 PM, mcduf...@ag0n.net wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:15:42 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote: Anyone have ideas of the cause. The first thing to look at is your own house, of course. If you can very temporarily power your radio from a battery, even a UPS (but not one you are currently using, just to make sure that isn't the source), do that and turn the entire house power off at the breaker. When that is clean, proceed to look at the neighborhood. My favorite trick is to toss a small radio like a IC706 up on the dash with a sniffer antenna on it and drive around. One more trick that works well if you are experienced is to put the receiver on AM mode and listen to the characteristics of the noise. If you've been around awhile, you can sometimes tell a lot more about what you are really looking for. If you can, record it on AM and SSB, and have several knowledgeable people listen to it to help steer you to the source. Do it with a direct connection, not an acoustic pickup, and don't overdo your levels. A good clean recording can help your detective work. I believe plasma TVs can sound terrible. I can't say for sure, but I think I have heard one in my neighborhood. Nearest neighbors are over a quarter of a mile away. When the noise in question came up, I went to AM and it sounded like high frequency arcing all over the bands. Luckily, it hasn't been a problem lately. Good luck. I've been fighting one noise for over 20 years here. We can't seem to isolate the source. Gary __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Based on my past experience - I would be thinking an arc welder (or wire or some such similar). If not that, then you might want to check for carbon trails on HV insulators along the road (usually very effected by the weather). As a third guess - and a worst case scenario - a serious problem in your home electrical system (or a nearby neighbor). You do need to eliminate the latter ASAP. Do you notice any changes in line voltage when you experience this noise? Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
On 2/19/2014 2:23 PM, Bill W2BLC wrote: If not that, then you might want to check for carbon trails on HV insulators along the road (usually very effected by the weather). When we suspected a power line leak, the noise was usually continuous, not intermittent.To verify which pole it came from, we used a 8-pound sledge to whack the pole, and if the noise changed, that was the right spot. Then we would notify the electric utility, having done their work for them. That tool, BTW, had a label on it: For Friendly Entries and Voluntary Statements :) 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
How do you recommend he go about eliminating the latter, which appears to be a nearby neighbor? ;-) 73, Phil w7ox -- K2#380, K1#18, K3/P3 shipping this week :-) On 2/19/14, 2:23 PM, Bill W2BLC wrote: Based on my past experience - I would be thinking an arc welder (or wire or some such similar). If not that, then you might want to check for carbon trails on HV insulators along the road (usually very effected by the weather). As a third guess - and a worst case scenario - a serious problem in your home electrical system (or a nearby neighbor). You do need to eliminate the latter ASAP. Do you notice any changes in line voltage when you experience this noise? Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
All of our electricity comes out of the ground. Everything is underground here except for a few poles a number of blocks away. I have heard that kind of noise before from insulators (dirt, carbon, etc.) and this is definitely not that. Besides, that would just not have this exact on off switching behavior as if some tool were being used. phil On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Bill W2BLC w2...@nycap.rr.com wrote: Based on my past experience - I would be thinking an arc welder (or wire or some such similar). If not that, then you might want to check for carbon trails on HV insulators along the road (usually very effected by the weather). As a third guess - and a worst case scenario - a serious problem in your home electrical system (or a nearby neighbor). You do need to eliminate the latter ASAP. Do you notice any changes in line voltage when you experience this noise? Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
I'm beginning to like that arc welder theory. 73 de Ray K2ULR On Feb 19, 2014, at 5:48 PM, Phil Hystad wrote: All of our electricity comes out of the ground. Everything is underground here except for a few poles a number of blocks away. I have heard that kind of noise before from insulators (dirt, carbon, etc.) and this is definitely not that. Besides, that would just not have this exact on off switching behavior as if some tool were being used. phil __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
I can't tell you what it is, but I can describe a few things for you: Neighbor has a plasma TV. The noise is very broad and at low P3 spans looks just solid as you describe. With a 200 KHz span, you can clearly see the changing video, it's very apparent. Plasma TV's radiate off the screen, his is about 300 feet from my tower, and is very strong but nowhere near 30 over S9. So, if at very wide spans on the P3 it is still constant, it is likely *not* a plasma TV. Since it seems to be constant from the BC band to 10m, and is very strong, either the source is very close or the total source energy must be high ... very high. If it's not close, it suggests something industrial or associated with a big power line. I had one instance of very broad, very strong noise similar to your description. Same neighbor has a military-grade night vision set-up and we located the source on a power line. Fortunately for me, our power company has been fined big bucks for starting fires, it was on a 112KV line and involved a tree, so they didn't play around, they just fixed it. My current noise source is a sodium vapor lamp lighting the interstate off ramp about a mile from here. The lamp is dying, it goes through the start sequence, appears to be firing up and then dies. It will repeat in a couple of minutes. The street lamp belongs to CalTrans, I can't get them to fix it. Then again, I really have no illusions about getting the State of California to fix anything. Unfortunately, tracking down noise with a portable radio [I use my KX1] requires that the noise be present for significant periods. Good luck, if you find it, I'd like to know the source. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org On 2/19/2014 2:05 PM, Phil Hystad wrote: It is hard to describe this noise because it lacks any features at all. Think of atmospherics, like background noise that usually sits around S0 to S1 on the S-meter, more on 80 meters in the evening. That sort of thing. Now, make that noise a solid (no changes, no peaks, no features, absolutely flat across the spectrum) 30/9 at least. The waterfall display is virtually opaque with this noise. The frequency spectrum display is just a band of noise across the whole top part of the P3 display -- just a little space on top where the labels are written. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
In my case, I walked next door and explained that his Plasma TV was interfering with my radio reception. I then asked him to come to my shack to see what the problem was. I showed him the signal from the PTV on my monitor which is connected to the P3 and asked if we could go to his home and turn the PTV off, which we did. Upon returning to my shack I showed him that the signal was gone. After explaining what was hapening I handed him the ARRL RFI book and showed him the part where it said that removing interference from appliances was the duty of the owner and told him about how nasty PTV's are and suggested he take the book home and read it. I then asked him if he was experiencing interference from my radio transmitter, to which he replied no. Problem solved. Amateure Radio Operator N5GE On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:39:54 -0800, you wrote: How do you recommend he go about eliminating the latter, which appears to be a nearby neighbor? ;-) 73, Phil w7ox -- K2#380, K1#18, K3/P3 shipping this week :-) On 2/19/14, 2:23 PM, Bill W2BLC wrote: Based on my past experience - I would be thinking an arc welder (or wire or some such similar). If not that, then you might want to check for carbon trails on HV insulators along the road (usually very effected by the weather). As a third guess - and a worst case scenario - a serious problem in your home electrical system (or a nearby neighbor). You do need to eliminate the latter ASAP. Do you notice any changes in line voltage when you experience this noise? Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
I had local power line noise so Send a letter / form you can download from the ARRL to both CalTran and the FCC local office you will get results,, send to the in charge office of caltran spend a buck and use USPS ceritfied letter with a return rcpt it works Bob K3DJC My current noise source is a sodium vapor lamp lighting the interstate off ramp about a mile from here. The lamp is dying, it goes through the start sequence, appears to be firing up and then dies. It will repeat in a couple of minutes. The street lamp belongs to CalTrans, I can't get them to fix it. Then again, I really have no illusions about getting the State of California to fix anything. Unfortunately, tracking down noise with a portable radio [I use my KX1] requires that the noise be present for significant periods. Good luck, if you find it, I'd like to know the source. 73, Fred K6DGW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
So how did he eliminate the noise from the PTV? Phil w7ox On 2/19/14, 3:57 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote: In my case, I walked next door and explained that his Plasma TV was interfering with my radio reception. I then asked him to come to my shack to see what the problem was. I showed him the signal from the PTV on my monitor which is connected to the P3 and asked if we could go to his home and turn the PTV off, which we did. Upon returning to my shack I showed him that the signal was gone. After explaining what was hapening I handed him the ARRL RFI book and showed him the part where it said that removing interference from appliances was the duty of the owner and told him about how nasty PTV's are and suggested he take the book home and read it. I then asked him if he was experiencing interference from my radio transmitter, to which he replied no. Problem solved. Amateure Radio Operator N5GE On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:39:54 -0800, you wrote: How do you recommend he go about eliminating the latter, which appears to be a nearby neighbor? ;-) 73, Phil w7ox -- K2#380, K1#18, K3/P3 shipping this week :-) On 2/19/14, 2:23 PM, Bill W2BLC wrote: Based on my past experience - I would be thinking an arc welder (or wire or some such similar). If not that, then you might want to check for carbon trails on HV insulators along the road (usually very effected by the weather). As a third guess - and a worst case scenario - a serious problem in your home electrical system (or a nearby neighbor). You do need to eliminate the latter ASAP. Do you notice any changes in line voltage when you experience this noise? Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
Maybe he took it back to the store where he purchased it and got a refund. That would be the best outcome. 73 de Ray K2ULR On Feb 19, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: So how did he eliminate the noise from the PTV? Phil w7ox __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
I suggest you contact your electric utility. Most utiltiies have a power quality department, and in general the staff are *very* well equipped and trained to locate RF noise if it's on their system. Some utilities call this their Amateur Radio division or department. Years ago, I had symptoms similar to yours except for the timing. I had Edison's power quality people out, and they found the problem: An irrigation pump transformer with an open secondary, arcing. Started at 5 PM every day, which is when the timed contactor made the path for the arc. Even the K3's NB couldn't keep up with this interference, but it helped quite a bit. The power quality tech permanently removed the connection to the faulty equipment and the problem has not returned. Just an idea. Most of these problems are utility system based, but not all of them. 73, matt W6NIA On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:05:17 -0800, you wrote: It is hard to describe this noise because it lacks any features at all. Think of atmospherics, like background noise that usually sits around S0 to S1 on the S-meter, more on 80 meters in the evening. That sort of thing. Now, make that noise a solid (no changes, no peaks, no features, absolutely flat across the spectrum) 30/9 at least. The waterfall display is virtually opaque with this noise. The frequency spectrum display is just a band of noise across the whole top part of the P3 display -- just a little space on top where the labels are written. Then, when I switched from band to band using the KPA500 band switching buttons -- exactly the same thing. But, if it did change, it was slightly worse down around 160 meter band but not enough to say for sure that it was really worse. Like I said, this would turn off and on a varying intervals just as if someone were turning on some instrument or tool to do things. The entire period of this RF noise and activity was about 10 minutes and it has now shown itself again. It is like someone hauled out their noise machine at 9:45 AM, starting doing things, and then at 9:55 AM or there abouts, he was done. phil On Feb 19, 2014, at 12:43 PM, mcduf...@ag0n.net wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:15:42 -0800, Phil Hystad wrote: Anyone have ideas of the cause. The first thing to look at is your own house, of course. If you can very temporarily power your radio from a battery, even a UPS (but not one you are currently using, just to make sure that isn't the source), do that and turn the entire house power off at the breaker. When that is clean, proceed to look at the neighborhood. My favorite trick is to toss a small radio like a IC706 up on the dash with a sniffer antenna on it and drive around. One more trick that works well if you are experienced is to put the receiver on AM mode and listen to the characteristics of the noise. If you've been around awhile, you can sometimes tell a lot more about what you are really looking for. If you can, record it on AM and SSB, and have several knowledgeable people listen to it to help steer you to the source. Do it with a direct connection, not an acoustic pickup, and don't overdo your levels. A good clean recording can help your detective work. I believe plasma TVs can sound terrible. I can't say for sure, but I think I have heard one in my neighborhood. Nearest neighbors are over a quarter of a mile away. When the noise in question came up, I went to AM and it sounded like high frequency arcing all over the bands. Luckily, it hasn't been a problem lately. Good luck. I've been fighting one noise for over 20 years here. We can't seem to isolate the source. Gary __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Matt Zilmer, W6NIA -- Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
My experience in Virginia and in New York was excellent with the power companies. Their quality control section had a couple of hams as team members - meaning we all spoke the same language. It might pay to ask if any team members are hams. Utility companies are loath to electricity loss, generally meaning they are helpful with problems they can correct - they cannot correct all problems. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?
On 2/19/2014 3:57 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote: I then asked him if he was experiencing interference from my radio transmitter, to which he replied no. Problem solved. Ummm ... and how? This is the conundrum [or maybe fallacy] in Part 15. Unsuspecting and un-knowledgable consumers buy a product that they expect to work. It appears to do so. The idea that they are now responsible for mitigating interference from the product they bought in good faith is beyond stupid. The real responsibility was with the manufacturer and/or seller. Unfortunately, now days all they have to do is put a little sticker on the back of the device which no consumer will see, let alone understand, and they're home free. My neighbors with the PTV are very busy, gone a lot, and while he understands what his TV does to my reception, I acknowledge his right to have that TV. It isn't on very often, a solution for me. He even asks me over the back fence if there's a big contest coming up, they have occasionally just chilled and read on their Kindles. I'm lucky, and good friends with our neighbors. We're going to keep it that way. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
