subject:"Re\: \[Elecraft\] suggested PC\?\?\?"

Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-06 Thread Neil Zampella

FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything 
(cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power 
supply (ups).   Many of the higher end models provide not only power 
surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax 
and ethernet.


Neil Zampella
KN3ILZ

On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Hi Jerry,

Don't use a wired network.  I had my shack computer on a wired network 
when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.


Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router, 
modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the 
Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road.  When I 
rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never 
regretted it.




On 1/5/2016 11:53 AM, Jerry wrote:
Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm 
ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC 
just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are 
logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.



It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 
500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire 
this). What else do I need in the box in the way of 
interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?



Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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--
73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org






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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-06 Thread Pete Smith N4ZR

Sign me up for wireless - all those network cables are just too 
effective antennas for lightning surges, and not just for direct hits.  
I am on my 3d serial transceiver in my K3  I now have a surge protector 
right at the port on the radio, but an still uncomfortable..


73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 1/6/2016 8:25 AM, Neil Zampella wrote:
FWIW ... I've got everything setup wired in the shack, but everything 
(cable coax, ethernet, power) runs through an uninterruptible power 
supply (ups).   Many of the higher end models provide not only power 
surge protection and battery, but lightning/surge protection for coax 
and ethernet.


Neil Zampella
KN3ILZ

On 1/5/2016 8:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Hi Jerry,

Don't use a wired network.  I had my shack computer on a wired 
network when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.


Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router, 
modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the 
Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road.  When I 
rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never 
regretted it.




On 1/5/2016 11:53 AM, Jerry wrote:
Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm 
ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC 
just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) 
are logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.



It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 
500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire 
this). What else do I need in the box in the way of 
interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?



Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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--
73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org






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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Rick WA6NHC

Last year I decided that the dual core desktop was not enough to run the 
station so I built a new computer, something I hadn't done in over a 
decade (because pre-assembled is cheaper).


I didn't want the bleeding edge, but I wanted something quick that would 
run without much intervention for ten years.  What I assembled was:


I-7 clocked at 4 GHz (actually now overclocked at 4.3 GHz) on an Asus 
mobo, PLENTY of USB 2 and 3 ports
32 GB memory (maxes the mobo; too much memory is not possible, OS keeps 
growing)

M.2 SSD (Google this, VERY fast transfer rates, connected onto the mobo)
2 TB spinning drive (D:, data storage)
4 port serial card, 4 REAL serial ports
Card reader (I do photo work too, this is USB 3))
Tower cooler for the CPU, keep it icy
Tower case with multiple fans...

The results are that Win7/64 from power switch flipped on to fully up 
and running (POST included) in under 20 seconds.  It runs the entire 
station (K3, KAT500, KPA500) via HRD 24/7 plus the weather data 
collection, web site production and a couple other chores and does this 
with the clock idled down to 800 MHz on the CPU (it's bored) to save 
energy.  The fans are nearly silent, more than enough cooling.  I can 
also run the entire station remotely (have several times, if I want to 
see the from panels, I turn on the Skype video).


Total cost was under $2,000 including a new copy of Win7 (you can buy an 
assembled for much less, but not get serial ports or card reader or all 
the memory or the M.2 SSD).  I applied Rick's Rule of purchases; "Buy 
all you need, plus whatever you THINK you may need at the original time 
of purchase, because the budget will never allow you to upgrade later."  
By using cheaper components (CPU and memory), one could cut this cost 
nearly in half, but once you're in, why not go all the way in (without 
water cooled grossly overclocked speed monsters, stability is critical)?


At some point, I will add a non-mobo video card (the only thing limiting 
this system to less than a perfect OS "score") to run multiple monitors, 
but for now I'm good (have the second monitor on the P3 'scope).


Most folks want Windows as the OS (more choices in software).  The Atom 
will run XP, but it gags early on with a real workload that a station 
can require.  I use that for the IRLP node (Debian linux) which is 
perfect for that (REALLY tiny) computer (have it doing other chores too).


Goals met, this will work for a long time.  When it comes to computing, 
there is no kill like overkill; think big, buy bigger.


HNY, 73,
Rick wa6nhc

On 1/5/2016 10:19 AM, Gordon LaPoint wrote:

Jerry,
   An I7 is more than enough processor.   You will want a video card 
that can driver at least 2 monitors.  You should consider adding real 
RS232 ports, at least 2 or 4 if you will ever run two radios, and even 
more if you want to control rotors, amps (KPA-500) or other accessories.
I use an FX-6300 3.5Ghz processor with 16Gb of ram and a 250Gb SSD 
for the boot drive.
I find that the SSD speeds the system up, I get from a cold boot to 
ready to run my software in about 10-15 seconds from power on.


Gordon - N1MGO

On 01/05/2016 12:53 PM, Jerry wrote:
Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm 
ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC 
just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are 
logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.



It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 
500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire 
this). What else do I need in the box in the way of 
interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?



Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread Cliff Frescura

I agree with N1MGO,

I've come full circle on this one and am in the process of removing all of
the USB/RS-232 converters in my setup and reinstalling a 4 port card that I
had in an old XP system (drivers work fine).

Determining what is a quality USB/RS-232 serial adapter is not always clear.
There are potential driver issues as well as suspect RF shielding.  Some of
these devices don't enable you to securely connect to both ends (no screw
connections, so the connector is not securely seated).  They are just
another (additional) point of failure.  Plus you are also now dealing with
limitations of USB (re: polling).

The FTDI chipset and drivers seem the most reliable and if you want to take
apart your newly purchased converter, you can determine if the chipset is
counterfeit.

http://hackaday.com/2014/02/19/ft232rl-real-or-fake/

If you need only 1 RS-232 port I would go with a converter, but once you get
above 2, then I think it is a good choice.

73,

Cliff K3LL

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tim
Tucker
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:44 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

I haven't had used a "real" (old fashioned) serial port on any PC that
controls radio equipment in probably 10 years.  It's really not necessary if
you purchase quality USB/Serial adapters (no fake chipsets) where needed.
The only PC I have with a old-fashioned serial port is an ancient Toshiba
laptop I keep around that runs DOS so I can program old Motorola radios.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Gordon LaPoint <gordon.lapo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> You should consider adding real RS232 ports, at least 2 or 4 if you 
> will ever run two radios, and even more if you want to control rotors, 
> amps
> (KPA-500) or other accessories.
>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT


You probably can't get a PC that's too small.

For logging and control, an Intel Atom (or the equivalent AMD ultra-low 
power CPU) would likely be an order of magnitude more than you need.


If you want to do digital (soundcard) modes, the slowest i3 would be lots.

Under Windows, I think more memory is always better than a faster CPU.  
8 gigabytes is probably a ton, however.


73 -- Lynn

On 1/5/2016 9:53 AM, Jerry wrote:

It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb SSD and 
wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else do I need in 
the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory 
(>8gb)?


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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Gordon LaPoint


Jerry,
   An I7 is more than enough processor.   You will want a video card 
that can driver at least 2 monitors.  You should consider adding real 
RS232 ports, at least 2 or 4 if you will ever run two radios, and even 
more if you want to control rotors, amps (KPA-500) or other accessories.
I use an FX-6300 3.5Ghz processor with 16Gb of ram and a 250Gb SSD 
for the boot drive.
I find that the SSD speeds the system up, I get from a cold boot to 
ready to run my software in about 10-15 seconds from power on.


Gordon - N1MGO

On 01/05/2016 12:53 PM, Jerry wrote:

Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to 
interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in the 
shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of the 
k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.


It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb SSD and 
wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else do I need in 
the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory 
(>8gb)?


Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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--
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Tim Tucker

I haven't had used a "real" (old fashioned) serial port on any PC that
controls radio equipment in probably 10 years.  It's really not necessary
if you purchase quality USB/Serial adapters (no fake chipsets) where
needed.  The only PC I have with a old-fashioned serial port is an ancient
Toshiba laptop I keep around that runs DOS so I can program old Motorola
radios.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Gordon LaPoint 
wrote:

> You should consider adding real RS232 ports, at least 2 or 4 if you will
> ever run two radios, and even more if you want to control rotors, amps
> (KPA-500) or other accessories.
>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread tomb18

IMHO, I would suggest an it with 8gb of ram so your suggested system is quite 
adequate. Pretty well all systems come with 8gb or more these days and if you 
want to use a software Panadapter you will have better performance in the long 
run with more memory.As to the serial ports being real or notI have about 
14 serial ports on my system. I have an edgeport usb converter that has 8 rs232 
connections. It generally considered that this is one of the better 
setups.However, I have never had ANY issues with USB to serial adapters on my 
systems. I have had issues with the edge port when I had rf  in the shack. It 
would effectively lock up and only a power cycle of the computer would fix it. 
It is a driver issue, blue screen...IMHO, and I have quite a bit of experience 
with serial ports, USB to serial adapters are fine. Just get some decent 
quality ones, based on the ftdi chip set.73 Tom

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: 
Don Wilhelm <w3...@embarqmail.com> Date: 2016-01-05  2:55 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
Jerry <je...@molaver.org>, Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 
suggested PC??? 
Jerry,

Put some real RS-232 serial ports in it.  USB is fine for some things, 
but there are times you want a serial port and USB to serial adapters 
can sometimes be finicky.

I would limit the memory to 4 GB if it were mine, and yes, I have a 
tower computer that I have dedicated to the hamshack.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/5/2016 12:53 PM, Jerry wrote:
> Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to 
> interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in 
> the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of 
> the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.
>
>
> It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb 
> SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else 
> do I need in the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large 
> amount of memory (>8gb)?
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated
>
>
> Jerry, k1tgx
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Barry LaZar


Kevin,
I ran into a number of areas that caused some real problems. One was 
trying to use a virtual serial port on one Mac mini and the other had a 
problem with the network interface. None of this was a problem with 
Windows. Running PowerSDR for a Flex3000 was initially a problem as the 
Firewire driver needed something that Apple didn't have. It would have 
been significantly easier to have set up on a PC with Firewire.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "kevino z" <z_kev...@hotmail.com>
To: "Brian Denley" <b.den...@comcast.net>
Cc: "Barry LaZar" <k3...@comcast.net>; "Randy Cook" <k6cr...@gmail.com>; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net

Sent: 1/5/2016 10:33:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

Yeah, another Mac user here that easily runs most Windows apps in a VM 
when needed. I have also used boot camp when the app is critical, for 
example SDR#. I can not understand the statement that Bootcamp has 
driver issues as when you run the Bootcamp assistant, it has the 
drivers put on an memory stick. But either way, when you run BootCamp, 
Windows just sees an intel based machine, no different than if it was a 
non Apple hardware device.
I have yet to come across one single ham radio tool / app that didn't 
run flawlessly in either Parallel's running a Win 7 VM, or as stated 
above, Bootcamp.
I will state the obvious, when in the Windows side, you are still 
vulnerable to all of the attacks typically going after MS, Adobe, 
etc...
Not an endorsement for Apple, but I hate when folks do not recommend a 
Mac when they probably have never owned one.

-Kevin (KK4YEL)


No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large 
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced !



 On Jan 5, 2016, at 22:04, Brian Denley <b.den...@comcast.net> wrote:

 My i7 iMac runs Windows 7 as well as OSX.  With 32 Gb of memory, I 
can run any Windows or Apple applications.  I don't have a K3 but the 
iMac runs my K2 and FT-950 applications with no issues whatsoever.  I 
can upgrade to Win 10 for free but I dislike it very much.


 Brian
 KB1VBF
 Sent from my iPad


 On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Barry LaZar <k3...@comcast.net> wrote:

 Randy,
   I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working 
with a friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has 
two. He has been trying to do an integrated station using HRD, 
FLDIGI, and a few other things. These are Windows based and he has 
been using Boot Camp to get to Windows. He discovered that there are 
driver issues and a few other things the prevent easy set up to do 
what he wants. And to compound the insult, his second Mac Mini does 
does not set up like his first.


   Most of the really good software that makes for full integration 
easy has been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I 
suggest an I5 with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, 
this is cost effective and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. 
As an illustration, I run Win4K3 for radio control and spectrum 
display, Com0com for port replication, Hamradio Deluxe for general 
logging and uploading to eQSL and LoTW, CW Skimmer. I switch out CW 
Skimmer for FLDIGI, and during a contest, I use N1MM+ in place of 
HRD. My experience has taught me to not use an Apple base system for 
this situation. However, there are other collections of S/W, but I 
expect the integration my not be as easy.


 73,
 Barry
 K3NDM

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Randy Cook" <k6cr...@gmail.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

 Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or 
MacBook Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, 
blown updates, buggy software, etc. on work computers, I come home 
to a 5 year old MacBook Air machine that just works and will 
probably run forever. I like MacLoggerDX for station 
control/logging, but others have their favorite.
 As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t 
need anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old 
and I got 40% of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 
year old PC, I would have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of 
it.


 73

 Randy Cook - K6CRC
 k6cr...@gmail.com




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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread James Bennett

Well, before Eric squashes the thread, one can also use the VMware product: 
Fusion. I've been running it on my iMac for years and have NEVER had a problem 
running any Windows application under it. Before Elecraft released the PX3 I 
used NaP3 on a Windows 8.1 guest with my KX3 and it worked real slick. All the 
ARRL software, EZNEC, you name it - works fine. And being behind the OSX 
operating system and its security, far little opportunity for the virus cretins 
to get at you. In addition to the base OSX and Windows 8.1 I also run several 
Linux guests there. Don't be afraid of a Mac!

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 7:33 PM, kevino z  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, another Mac user here that easily runs most Windows apps in a VM when 
> needed. I have also used boot camp when the app is critical, for example 
> SDR#. I can not understand the statement that Bootcamp has driver issues as 
> when you run the Bootcamp assistant, it has the drivers put on an memory 
> stick. But either way, when you run BootCamp, Windows just sees an intel 
> based machine, no different than if it was a non Apple hardware device.
> I have yet to come across one single ham radio tool / app that didn't run 
> flawlessly in either Parallel's running a Win 7 VM, or as stated above, 
> Bootcamp.
> I will state the obvious, when in the Windows side, you are still vulnerable 
> to all of the attacks typically going after MS, Adobe, etc...
> Not an endorsement for Apple, but I hate when folks do not recommend a Mac 
> when they probably have never owned one.
> -Kevin (KK4YEL) 
> 
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number 
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced !
> 
>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 22:04, Brian Denley  wrote:
>> 
>> My i7 iMac runs Windows 7 as well as OSX.  With 32 Gb of memory, I can run 
>> any Windows or Apple applications.  I don't have a K3 but the iMac runs my 
>> K2 and FT-950 applications with no issues whatsoever.  I can upgrade to Win 
>> 10 for free but I dislike it very much.
>> 
>> Brian 
>> KB1VBF
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Barry LaZar  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Randy,
>>>  I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working with a 
>>> friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has two. He has been 
>>> trying to do an integrated station using HRD, FLDIGI, and a few other 
>>> things. These are Windows based and he has been using Boot Camp to get to 
>>> Windows. He discovered that there are driver issues and a few other things 
>>> the prevent easy set up to do what he wants. And to compound the insult, 
>>> his second Mac Mini does does not set up like his first.
>>> 
>>>  Most of the really good software that makes for full integration easy has 
>>> been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I suggest an I5 
>>> with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, this is cost effective 
>>> and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. As an illustration, I run 
>>> Win4K3 for radio control and spectrum display, Com0com for port 
>>> replication, Hamradio Deluxe for general logging and uploading to eQSL and 
>>> LoTW, CW Skimmer. I switch out CW Skimmer for FLDIGI, and during a contest, 
>>> I use N1MM+ in place of HRD. My experience has taught me to not use an 
>>> Apple base system for this situation. However, there are other collections 
>>> of S/W, but I expect the integration my not be as easy.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Barry
>>> K3NDM
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Randy Cook" 
>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???
>>> 
 Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or MacBook 
 Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, blown updates, 
 buggy software, etc. on work computers, I come home to a 5 year old 
 MacBook Air machine that just works and will probably run forever. I like 
 MacLoggerDX for station control/logging, but others have their favorite.
 As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t need 
 anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old and I got 
 40% of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 year old PC, I 
 would have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of it.
 
 73
 
 Randy Cook - K6CRC
 k6cr...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 
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 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecra
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Brian Denley

Let me know when you find the program's folder.  Gr

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 10:27 PM, Barry LaZar <k3...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Brian,
>Add port replication and NaP3 or Win4K3 and see what happens. Also, you 
> don't say how you are running Windows, Boot Camp?? And yes, you should 
> upgrade to Windows 10. It runs faster and more reliably than Win7 and is more 
> secure. It will be upgraded free as new security definitions are published 
> and bugs fixed. I don't know what you dislike about Win10, but from my view, 
> Microsoft fixed a whole lot of things like an incredibly bad GUI from Win8 
> and has made it easier to roam around and find things.
> 
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brian Denley" <b.den...@comcast.net>
> To: "Barry LaZar" <k3...@comcast.net>
> Cc: "Randy Cook" <k6cr...@gmail.com>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 1/5/2016 10:02:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???
> 
>> My i7 iMac runs Windows 7 as well as OSX.  With 32 Gb of memory, I can run 
>> any Windows or Apple applications.  I don't have a K3 but the iMac runs my 
>> K2 and FT-950 applications with no issues whatsoever.  I can upgrade to Win 
>> 10 for free but I dislike it very much.
>> 
>> Brian
>> KB1VBF
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Barry LaZar <k3...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Randy,
>>>I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working with a 
>>> friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has two. He has been 
>>> trying to do an integrated station using HRD, FLDIGI, and a few other 
>>> things. These are Windows based and he has been using Boot Camp to get to 
>>> Windows. He discovered that there are driver issues and a few other things 
>>> the prevent easy set up to do what he wants. And to compound the insult, 
>>> his second Mac Mini does does not set up like his first.
>>> 
>>>Most of the really good software that makes for full integration easy 
>>> has been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I suggest an 
>>> I5 with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, this is cost 
>>> effective and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. As an illustration, 
>>> I run Win4K3 for radio control and spectrum display, Com0com for port 
>>> replication, Hamradio Deluxe for general logging and uploading to eQSL and 
>>> LoTW, CW Skimmer. I switch out CW Skimmer for FLDIGI, and during a contest, 
>>> I use N1MM+ in place of HRD. My experience has taught me to not use an 
>>> Apple base system for this situation. However, there are other collections 
>>> of S/W, but I expect the integration my not be as easy.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Barry
>>> K3NDM
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Randy Cook" <k6cr...@gmail.com>
>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???
>>> 
>>>> Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or MacBook 
>>>> Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, blown updates, 
>>>> buggy software, etc. on work computers, I come home to a 5 year old 
>>>> MacBook Air machine that just works and will probably run forever. I like 
>>>> MacLoggerDX for station control/logging, but others have their favorite.
>>>> As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t need 
>>>> anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old and I got 
>>>> 40% of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 year old PC, I 
>>>> would have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of it.
>>>> 
>>>> 73
>>>> 
>>>> Randy Cook - K6CRC
>>>> k6cr...@gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> __
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecra
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Barry LaZar


Brian,
Add port replication and NaP3 or Win4K3 and see what happens. Also, 
you don't say how you are running Windows, Boot Camp?? And yes, you 
should upgrade to Windows 10. It runs faster and more reliably than Win7 
and is more secure. It will be upgraded free as new security definitions 
are published and bugs fixed. I don't know what you dislike about Win10, 
but from my view, Microsoft fixed a whole lot of things like an 
incredibly bad GUI from Win8 and has made it easier to roam around and 
find things.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Brian Denley" <b.den...@comcast.net>
To: "Barry LaZar" <k3...@comcast.net>
Cc: "Randy Cook" <k6cr...@gmail.com>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 1/5/2016 10:02:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

My i7 iMac runs Windows 7 as well as OSX.  With 32 Gb of memory, I can 
run any Windows or Apple applications.  I don't have a K3 but the iMac 
runs my K2 and FT-950 applications with no issues whatsoever.  I can 
upgrade to Win 10 for free but I dislike it very much.


Brian
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad


 On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Barry LaZar <k3...@comcast.net> wrote:

 Randy,
I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working 
with a friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has two. 
He has been trying to do an integrated station using HRD, FLDIGI, and 
a few other things. These are Windows based and he has been using Boot 
Camp to get to Windows. He discovered that there are driver issues and 
a few other things the prevent easy set up to do what he wants. And to 
compound the insult, his second Mac Mini does does not set up like his 
first.


Most of the really good software that makes for full integration 
easy has been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I 
suggest an I5 with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, this 
is cost effective and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. As an 
illustration, I run Win4K3 for radio control and spectrum display, 
Com0com for port replication, Hamradio Deluxe for general logging and 
uploading to eQSL and LoTW, CW Skimmer. I switch out CW Skimmer for 
FLDIGI, and during a contest, I use N1MM+ in place of HRD. My 
experience has taught me to not use an Apple base system for this 
situation. However, there are other collections of S/W, but I expect 
the integration my not be as easy.


 73,
 Barry
 K3NDM

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Randy Cook" <k6cr...@gmail.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

 Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or 
MacBook Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, blown 
updates, buggy software, etc. on work computers, I come home to a 5 
year old MacBook Air machine that just works and will probably run 
forever. I like MacLoggerDX for station control/logging, but others 
have their favorite.
 As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t 
need anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old 
and I got 40% of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 
year old PC, I would have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of 
it.


 73

 Randy Cook - K6CRC
 k6cr...@gmail.com




 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecra


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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread kevino z

Yeah, another Mac user here that easily runs most Windows apps in a VM when 
needed. I have also used boot camp when the app is critical, for example SDR#. 
I can not understand the statement that Bootcamp has driver issues as when you 
run the Bootcamp assistant, it has the drivers put on an memory stick. But 
either way, when you run BootCamp, Windows just sees an intel based machine, no 
different than if it was a non Apple hardware device.
I have yet to come across one single ham radio tool / app that didn't run 
flawlessly in either Parallel's running a Win 7 VM, or as stated above, 
Bootcamp.
I will state the obvious, when in the Windows side, you are still vulnerable to 
all of the attacks typically going after MS, Adobe, etc...
Not an endorsement for Apple, but I hate when folks do not recommend a Mac when 
they probably have never owned one.
-Kevin (KK4YEL) 


No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced !

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 22:04, Brian Denley  wrote:
> 
> My i7 iMac runs Windows 7 as well as OSX.  With 32 Gb of memory, I can run 
> any Windows or Apple applications.  I don't have a K3 but the iMac runs my K2 
> and FT-950 applications with no issues whatsoever.  I can upgrade to Win 10 
> for free but I dislike it very much.
> 
> Brian 
> KB1VBF
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Barry LaZar  wrote:
>> 
>> Randy,
>>   I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working with a 
>> friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has two. He has been 
>> trying to do an integrated station using HRD, FLDIGI, and a few other 
>> things. These are Windows based and he has been using Boot Camp to get to 
>> Windows. He discovered that there are driver issues and a few other things 
>> the prevent easy set up to do what he wants. And to compound the insult, his 
>> second Mac Mini does does not set up like his first.
>> 
>>   Most of the really good software that makes for full integration easy has 
>> been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I suggest an I5 
>> with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, this is cost effective 
>> and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. As an illustration, I run 
>> Win4K3 for radio control and spectrum display, Com0com for port replication, 
>> Hamradio Deluxe for general logging and uploading to eQSL and LoTW, CW 
>> Skimmer. I switch out CW Skimmer for FLDIGI, and during a contest, I use 
>> N1MM+ in place of HRD. My experience has taught me to not use an Apple base 
>> system for this situation. However, there are other collections of S/W, but 
>> I expect the integration my not be as easy.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Randy Cook" 
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???
>> 
>>> Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or MacBook 
>>> Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, blown updates, 
>>> buggy software, etc. on work computers, I come home to a 5 year old MacBook 
>>> Air machine that just works and will probably run forever. I like 
>>> MacLoggerDX for station control/logging, but others have their favorite.
>>> As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t need 
>>> anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old and I got 
>>> 40% of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 year old PC, I 
>>> would have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of it.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Randy Cook - K6CRC
>>> k6cr...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecra
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Brian Denley

My i7 iMac runs Windows 7 as well as OSX.  With 32 Gb of memory, I can run any 
Windows or Apple applications.  I don't have a K3 but the iMac runs my K2 and 
FT-950 applications with no issues whatsoever.  I can upgrade to Win 10 for 
free but I dislike it very much.

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Barry LaZar  wrote:
> 
> Randy,
>I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working with a 
> friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has two. He has been 
> trying to do an integrated station using HRD, FLDIGI, and a few other things. 
> These are Windows based and he has been using Boot Camp to get to Windows. He 
> discovered that there are driver issues and a few other things the prevent 
> easy set up to do what he wants. And to compound the insult, his second Mac 
> Mini does does not set up like his first.
> 
>Most of the really good software that makes for full integration easy has 
> been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I suggest an I5 
> with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, this is cost effective 
> and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. As an illustration, I run Win4K3 
> for radio control and spectrum display, Com0com for port replication, 
> Hamradio Deluxe for general logging and uploading to eQSL and LoTW, CW 
> Skimmer. I switch out CW Skimmer for FLDIGI, and during a contest, I use 
> N1MM+ in place of HRD. My experience has taught me to not use an Apple base 
> system for this situation. However, there are other collections of S/W, but I 
> expect the integration my not be as easy.
> 
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Randy Cook" 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???
> 
>> Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or MacBook 
>> Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, blown updates, buggy 
>> software, etc. on work computers, I come home to a 5 year old MacBook Air 
>> machine that just works and will probably run forever. I like MacLoggerDX 
>> for station control/logging, but others have their favorite.
>> As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t need 
>> anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old and I got 40% 
>> of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 year old PC, I would 
>> have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of it.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Randy Cook - K6CRC
>> k6cr...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecra
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Doug Person via Elecraft

FTDI USB to serial adapters work on ALL platforms - without exception.  
There simply is no reason to worry about "native" RS232 interfaces.


An i7 to run a computer for a station is massive overkill.  I use an 
Intel i3 NUC (4"x4"x2") with an SSD drive and 8 gigs of ram. Everything 
runs just fine, including dual monitors.  Unless you're planning on 
running an SDR, there really isn't a lot of reason to have a lot of 
computing power for your station computer.  Logging, computer control, 
digital modes and just about everything else hardly even challenges the 
most basic computer platform today.


Only specialized computers (like point of sale) come with built-in 
RS-232 ports.  Most off-the-self boxes don't include them because they 
are, at a consumer level, obsolete.


Even if you build your own, finding a motherboard with actual serial 
ports will greatly limit your choice.


I have found the AMD FX-series processors to be an excellent value and 
use them in a basic gaming box I build for people.  (For example, AMD 
FX-6300 is a powerful 6-core processor for $100 from Amazon).


Could not find a single main-brand that comes with a serial port as 
standard.  Wouldn't worry about it.


73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 1/5/2016 12:40 PM, n6...@outlook.com wrote:

Jerry,
in contrast to some of the feedback RS-232 serial ports are
still readily available on many brand name computers today including
laptops, desktops, towers, and rack mount PCs. I regularly purchase and
set up many for my employer.

While many USB-to-serial converters
  and their drivers work well (especially FTDI) I still suggest including
  a native (built-in) serial port in your computer wish list. They are
hardware based, generally OS independent, and do not require
OS-compatible drivers.

And if you have any confusion over USB 2.0
  vs. 3.0, USB 3.0 is backwards compatible and should support any USB 2.0
  device. The 3.0 compliant ports can also supply a little more DC
current as well.
Gary


From: je...@molaver.org
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 17:53:14 +
Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to 
interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in the 
shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of the 
k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.


It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb SSD and 
wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else do I need in 
the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory 
(>8gb)?


Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Wes (N7WS)

That's the way I see it. I have a Lenovo T400 laptop running Win 7 Home with a 
core 2 duo P8400 @2.2 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. I slapped in a 128G SSD and put the 
original HD in a caddy in the CD drive slot.  Runs everything, USB 
keyboard/mouse, SDR-IQ, K3S, DXBase, MMTTY, external monitor, etc.  Don't see 
what the fuss is about.


To run my SDR-Kits VNWA in the field I found an old HP Elitebook in a thrift 
store for $100.  It had Win 7 Pro installed and a good battery.  I went all out 
and put in a 256G SSD and reloaded 7 Pro.  It too will run everything.  After 
getting nagged enough by Microsoft I figured I'd try Win 10 on it.  Installed 
fine although the start menu was hosed (common problem apparently)   I don't 
care as I still run the 10 year old "Classic Menu" using Classic Shell.


(I can remember running a whole room full of HP test equipment with HP-IB and a 
HP9836 computer running HP Basic with 256 K of RAM, or in HP jargon, a "Quarter 
Pounder".  A 1 MB card was a "Big Mac" and required a Division manager's 
signature to buy)


On 1/5/2016 3:03 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
FTDI USB to serial adapters work on ALL platforms - without exception. There 
simply is no reason to worry about "native" RS232 interfaces.


An i7 to run a computer for a station is massive overkill.  I use an Intel i3 
NUC (4"x4"x2") with an SSD drive and 8 gigs of ram. Everything runs just fine, 
including dual monitors.  Unless you're planning on running an SDR, there 
really isn't a lot of reason to have a lot of computing power for your station 
computer.  Logging, computer control, digital modes and just about everything 
else hardly even challenges the most basic computer platform today.


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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread Doug Person via Elecraft

A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus add 
on.  There no difference between running 1 or 4 USB to RS-232 
converters.  You can buy a 4 port FTDI converter that runs off a single 
USB port from Amazon that will run everything you could ever want.  I 
run 80's vintage lab equipment off them and they don't know the difference.


Also, don't get Windows 7 or 8.  Windows 10 is the only choice for 
Windows.  7 and 8 are obsolete and support will get lighter and lighter 
and then vanish completely.


Doug -- K0DXV

On 1/5/2016 12:24 PM, Cliff Frescura wrote:

I agree with N1MGO,

I've come full circle on this one and am in the process of removing all of
the USB/RS-232 converters in my setup and reinstalling a 4 port card that I
had in an old XP system (drivers work fine).

Determining what is a quality USB/RS-232 serial adapter is not always clear.
There are potential driver issues as well as suspect RF shielding.  Some of
these devices don't enable you to securely connect to both ends (no screw
connections, so the connector is not securely seated).  They are just
another (additional) point of failure.  Plus you are also now dealing with
limitations of USB (re: polling).

The FTDI chipset and drivers seem the most reliable and if you want to take
apart your newly purchased converter, you can determine if the chipset is
counterfeit.

http://hackaday.com/2014/02/19/ft232rl-real-or-fake/

If you need only 1 RS-232 port I would go with a converter, but once you get
above 2, then I think it is a good choice.


73,

Cliff K3LL



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tim
Tucker
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:44 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

I haven't had used a "real" (old fashioned) serial port on any PC that
controls radio equipment in probably 10 years.  It's really not necessary if
you purchase quality USB/Serial adapters (no fake chipsets) where needed.
The only PC I have with a old-fashioned serial port is an ancient Toshiba
laptop I keep around that runs DOS so I can program old Motorola radios.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Gordon LaPoint <gordon.lapo...@gmail.com>
wrote:


You should consider adding real RS232 ports, at least 2 or 4 if you
will ever run two radios, and even more if you want to control rotors,
amps
(KPA-500) or other accessories.




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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:

A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus
add on.


*Absolutely incorrect*.  A USB to serial converter *of any kind* -
other than the Edgeport products - can not do 45.45, 50, 75 or 100
baud RTTY.  All of the multi-port RS-232 PCI and PCIe cards handle
that task with no problem (although Windows will set 45.45 baud to
45 baud because the API is integer based).

PCI and PCIe based serial and parallel port cards are true memory
addressed ports like motherboard or (obsolete) ISA bus ports - not
USB devices that suffer from latency and driver buffer issues.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:

A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus add
on.  There no difference between running 1 or 4 USB to RS-232
converters.  You can buy a 4 port FTDI converter that runs off a single
USB port from Amazon that will run everything you could ever want.  I
run 80's vintage lab equipment off them and they don't know the difference.

Also, don't get Windows 7 or 8.  Windows 10 is the only choice for
Windows.  7 and 8 are obsolete and support will get lighter and lighter
and then vanish completely.

Doug -- K0DXV

On 1/5/2016 12:24 PM, Cliff Frescura wrote:

I agree with N1MGO,

I've come full circle on this one and am in the process of removing
all of
the USB/RS-232 converters in my setup and reinstalling a 4 port card
that I
had in an old XP system (drivers work fine).

Determining what is a quality USB/RS-232 serial adapter is not always
clear.
There are potential driver issues as well as suspect RF shielding.
Some of
these devices don't enable you to securely connect to both ends (no screw
connections, so the connector is not securely seated).  They are just
another (additional) point of failure.  Plus you are also now dealing
with
limitations of USB (re: polling).

The FTDI chipset and drivers seem the most reliable and if you want to
take
apart your newly purchased converter, you can determine if the chipset is
counterfeit.

http://hackaday.com/2014/02/19/ft232rl-real-or-fake/

If you need only 1 RS-232 port I would go with a converter, but once
you get
above 2, then I think it is a good choice.


73,

Cliff K3LL



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tim
Tucker
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:44 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

I haven't had used a "real" (old fashioned) serial port on any PC that
controls radio equipment in probably 10 years.  It's really not
necessary if
you purchase quality USB/Serial adapters (no fake chipsets) where needed.
The only PC I have with a old-fashioned serial port is an ancient Toshiba
laptop I keep around that runs DOS so I can program old Motorola radios.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Gordon LaPoint
<gordon.lapo...@gmail.com>
wrote:


You should consider adding real RS232 ports, at least 2 or 4 if you
will ever run two radios, and even more if you want to control rotors,
amps
(KPA-500) or other accessories.




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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Jeff Stai

Only you can decide how much PC you need to do what you want to do. If you
are just control and logging you can get by with 2-4G of RAM and a fairly
modest 160 gig disk drive, and a dual core. Even though the K3s has the USB
port I would still get something that would allow you to add one or more
real serial port via some flavor of PCI. You never know...

A more economical approach is to get a refurbished PC. I currently use a
refurbished HP with an added 8 port serial card for my RTTY work (I like
hardware modems...). I think it cost me $200 for the PC at the time. And I
recently purchased another one for my company that came with Win7 64-bit
Pro, for just $75. I use tigerdirect.com but there are many such vendors to
choose from.

Have fun! 73 jeff wk6i

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Jerry  wrote:

> Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to
> interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in
> the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control
> of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.
>
>
> It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb
> SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What
> else do I need in the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a
> large amount of memory (>8gb)?
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated
>
>
> Jerry, k1tgx
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-- 
Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread n6lrv


Jerry,
in contrast to some of the feedback RS-232 serial ports are 
still readily available on many brand name computers today including 
laptops, desktops, towers, and rack mount PCs. I regularly purchase and 
set up many for my employer. 

While many USB-to-serial converters
 and their drivers work well (especially FTDI) I still suggest including
 a native (built-in) serial port in your computer wish list. They are 
hardware based, generally OS independent, and do not require 
OS-compatible drivers.

And if you have any confusion over USB 2.0
 vs. 3.0, USB 3.0 is backwards compatible and should support any USB 2.0
 device. The 3.0 compliant ports can also supply a little more DC 
current as well.
Gary

> From: je...@molaver.org
> To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 17:53:14 +
> Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???
> 
> Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to 
> interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in 
> the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of 
> the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.
> 
> 
> It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb 
> SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else 
> do I need in the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large 
> amount of memory (>8gb)?
> 
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated
> 
> 
> Jerry, k1tgx
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO

I put together a new Windows PC about 2 years ago. The single component 
that seems to have made the biggest difference is a 250 GB solid-state 
drive (SSD). The computer boots in about 20 seconds (OK, the I7 
processor helps too), which is important to me since I don't like to 
leave it on all the time. I also got a 1 TB conventional drive which I 
use for backups.
One good thing about assembling a computer from components is that you 
can install the OS without all the junk that the manufacturers like to 
gum it up with.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


Vic

On 5 Jan 2016 19:53, Jerry wrote:

Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm
ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC
just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are
logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.


It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a
500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire
this). What else do I need in the box in the way of
interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?


Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread kev...@coho.net

I built two new boxes last year.  One of them is an Ubuntu headless 
server and the other an 8 core box running Win7.  The 8 core box only 
has 16 GB of memory at present but I'll fill the board later this year.  
It is very nice to have serial ports available.  If the motherboard did 
not have one installed I would just add a board to supply it.


However, the Win7 64 bit install gave me one problem: I could no longer 
run my favorite CAD app on the machine.  So after a few months of trying 
other (lesser) CAD apps I installed Virtual Box. Now I have six OSes 
installed; I just pick which VM (virtual machine) to boot and run from 
that.  With shared folders across the network I can use my 16 bit app 
under a 64 bit OS to do part of my work.  By using the VMs I don't need 
to install virus protection for those OSes because they all boot "as 
new" when I instantiate them.


Virtual machines on a network of Samba servers makes for a system which 
does all the things I need to do without a lot of hassle.  I can run a 
Win7 VM with only the tools I need for any specific job then start 
another Win7 VM with other tools to do another specific job.  The 
installed VMs work across the network on my other Win7 system seamlessly.


The biggest problem with my system is remembering which window is 
running which OS :) since I also administer the Linux boxes remotely 
with putty.  Different background colors helps me keep them straight though.

Good luck with your prospective build,
Kevin.  KD5ONS

On 1/5/2016 12:38 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
I put together a new Windows PC about 2 years ago. The single 
component that seems to have made the biggest difference is a 250 GB 
solid-state drive (SSD). The computer boots in about 20 seconds (OK, 
the I7 processor helps too), which is important to me since I don't 
like to leave it on all the time. I also got a 1 TB conventional drive 
which I use for backups.
One good thing about assembling a computer from components is that you 
can install the OS without all the junk that the manufacturers like to 
gum it up with.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


Vic

On 5 Jan 2016 19:53, Jerry wrote:

Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm
ready to interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC
just for use in the shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are
logging and control of the k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.


It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a
500gb SSD and wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire
this). What else do I need in the box in the way of
interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory (>8gb)?


Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Gary K9GS


Hi Jerry,

Don't use a wired network.  I had my shack computer on a wired network 
when I took a lightning hit a couple of years ago.


Everything connected on the wired network was zapped (2 PCs, router, 
modem, K3 RS-232 port, WinKey (connected to one of the PCs), and the 
Cable TV amplifier located over 150 ft away out by the road.  When I 
rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have never 
regretted it.




On 1/5/2016 11:53 AM, Jerry wrote:

Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to 
interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in the 
shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of the 
k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.


It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb SSD and 
wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else do I need in 
the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory 
(>8gb)?


Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org



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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX

While everything in my shack is wireless...almost, I do have a USB 
cable between the laptop computer and K3S.What is the recommendation 
to make / convert the K3S port to wireless?


73
Bob K4TAX

On 1/5/2016 7:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have 
never regretted it.



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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Gary K9GS

I probably should have worded that better.  All of my COMPUTER 
connections to my network are wireless.  My K3, WinKey, etc are cabled 
to the hamshack PC.




On 1/5/2016 7:21 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
While everything in my shack is wireless...almost, I do have a USB 
cable between the laptop computer and K3S.What is the 
recommendation to make / convert the K3S port to wireless?


73
Bob K4TAX

On 1/5/2016 7:14 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
When I rebuilt everything i went wireless with all of my PCs and have 
never regretted it.



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--
73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org



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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX

OK thanks.   I'm wireless with both of the laptops, wireless to the 
printer, and to the house control systems.  Just the radio connected via 
wire to the computer.


73
Bob, K4TAX


On 1/5/2016 7:37 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
I probably should have worded that better.  All of my COMPUTER 
connections to my network are wireless.  My K3, WinKey, etc are cabled 
to the hamshack PC



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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread WB4JFI

Original serial and parallel ports on the original IBM backplane were I/O port 
mapped, not memory mapped.  There were discrepancies between port numbers 
between the true IBM I/O port numbers and "clones".  Ports 3F8 and 2F8 for COM1 
and 2, 3E8 and 2E8 for COM3 and 4.   On a true original IBM, the first parallel 
port was 3BC, while most clones used 378 for the first parallel port.  Note 
that these are input/output mapped, NOT memory mapped.

I'm not sure that PCI and PCIe serial and parallel port devices are truly I/O 
mapped (probably not), or memory mapped, but in either case, they are not true 
serial or parallel hardware devices, but something that emulates them.  PCIe is 
itself a high-speed serial interface, so there must be some interpretation.

Of course, even the older ISA cards ended up using ASIC devices to emulate 
serial and parallel ports, but that was hardware based.
73, Terry, N4TLF

Sent from tfox iPad

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
>> A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus
>> add on.
> 
> *Absolutely incorrect*.  A USB to serial converter *of any kind* -
> other than the Edgeport products - can not do 45.45, 50, 75 or 100
> baud RTTY.  All of the multi-port RS-232 PCI and PCIe cards handle
> that task with no problem (although Windows will set 45.45 baud to
> 45 baud because the API is integer based).
> 
> PCI and PCIe based serial and parallel port cards are true memory
> addressed ports like motherboard or (obsolete) ISA bus ports - not
> USB devices that suffer from latency and driver buffer issues.
> 
> 73,
> 
>  ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
>> A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus add
>> on.  There no difference between running 1 or 4 USB to RS-232
>> converters.  You can buy a 4 port FTDI converter that runs off a single
>> USB port from Amazon that will run everything you could ever want.  I
>> run 80's vintage lab equipment off them and they don't know the difference.
>> 
>> Also, don't get Windows 7 or 8.  Windows 10 is the only choice for
>> Windows.  7 and 8 are obsolete and support will get lighter and lighter
>> and then vanish completely.
>> 
>> Doug -- K0DXV
>> 
>>> On 1/5/2016 12:24 PM, Cliff Frescura wrote:
>>> I agree with N1MGO,
>>> 
>>> I've come full circle on this one and am in the process of removing
>>> all of
>>> the USB/RS-232 converters in my setup and reinstalling a 4 port card
>>> that I
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft

Folks - we're getting pretty OT. Lets wind this thread down at this time in the 
interest of keeping the signal to noise level reasonable for other readers.


73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 1/5/2016 4:07 PM, WB4JFI wrote:

Original serial and parallel ports on the original IBM backplane were I/O port mapped, 
not memory mapped.  There were discrepancies between port numbers between the true IBM 
I/O port numbers and "clones".  Ports 3F8 and 2F8 for COM1 and 2, 3E8 and 2E8 
for COM3 and 4.   On a true original IBM, the first parallel port was 3BC, while most 
clones used 378 for the first parallel port.  Note that these are input/output mapped, 
NOT memory mapped.

I'm not sure that PCI and PCIe serial and parallel port devices are truly I/O 
mapped (probably not), or memory mapped, but in either case, they are not true 
serial or parallel hardware devices, but something that emulates them.  PCIe is 
itself a high-speed serial interface, so there must be some interpretation.

Of course, even the older ISA cards ended up using ASIC devices to emulate 
serial and parallel ports, but that was hardware based.
73, Terry, N4TLF

Sent from tfox iPad


On Jan 5, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:



On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus
add on.

*Absolutely incorrect*.  A USB to serial converter *of any kind* -
other than the Edgeport products - can not do 45.45, 50, 75 or 100
baud RTTY.  All of the multi-port RS-232 PCI and PCIe cards handle
that task with no problem (although Windows will set 45.45 baud to
45 baud because the API is integer based).

PCI and PCIe based serial and parallel port cards are true memory
addressed ports like motherboard or (obsolete) ISA bus ports - not
USB devices that suffer from latency and driver buffer issues.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV



On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus add
on.  There no difference between running 1 or 4 USB to RS-232
converters.  You can buy a 4 port FTDI converter that runs off a single
USB port from Amazon that will run everything you could ever want.  I
run 80's vintage lab equipment off them and they don't know the difference.

Also, don't get Windows 7 or 8.  Windows 10 is the only choice for
Windows.  7 and 8 are obsolete and support will get lighter and lighter
and then vanish completely.

Doug -- K0DXV


On 1/5/2016 12:24 PM, Cliff Frescura wrote:
I agree with N1MGO,

I've come full circle on this one and am in the process of removing
all of
the USB/RS-232 converters in my setup and reinstalling a 4 port card
that I

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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Don Wilhelm


Jerry,

Put some real RS-232 serial ports in it.  USB is fine for some things, 
but there are times you want a serial port and USB to serial adapters 
can sometimes be finicky.


I would limit the memory to 4 GB if it were mine, and yes, I have a 
tower computer that I have dedicated to the hamshack.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/5/2016 12:53 PM, Jerry wrote:

Now that I have had my k3s on the air for a couple of months I'm ready to 
interface it to a computer. I am planning on a dedicated PC just for use in the 
shack. My only uses (that I can think of now) are logging and control of the 
k3s, perhaps remotely at some point.


It seems to me an I7 processor of any speed would be adequate with a 500gb SSD and 
wifi capability to my LAN (I guess I could hard wire this). What else do I need in 
the box in the way of interconnectivity? Any need for a large amount of memory 
(>8gb)?


Any suggestions would be appreciated


Jerry, k1tgx
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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread Don Wilhelm


I have to agree with Joe.

If you must use a USB to serial converter for serious all purpose use, 
get an Edgeport product.
There is a difference between a 'converter' and an 'adapter'.  Most USB 
to serial devices available in the consumer market are 'adapters' - the 
Edgeport was directed at the commercial market where many different 
terminal devices need to be supported.  It advertizes itself as a 
'converter' rather than an adapter.  I have a 4 port model and it has 
never failed to perform as expected, although I prefer to use real 
serial ports if possible.


Whether the serial card is plugged into an ISA bus, a PCI bus, or 
whatever kind of PC bus architecture, that bus is just a means of 
getting addressing and data to the card.  It is not an "add-on".


USB to serial adapters may work fine for many applications, but some 
have trouble with the slower data rate of the K2 (4800 bps). Usually the 
FTDI adapters will work, but some have problems at lower data rates.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/5/2016 5:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:

A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus
add on.


*Absolutely incorrect*.  A USB to serial converter *of any kind* -
other than the Edgeport products - can not do 45.45, 50, 75 or 100
baud RTTY.


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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC??? Real RS-232 ports

2016-01-05 Thread Jim Brown

I agree with Joe. A 2-port Edgeport provides two good RS-232 ports for 
SO2R operation with my very new T540 Thinkpad.  It, and another Thinkpad 
bought around the same time, are the first I've ever owned that didn't 
have a hardware serial port either on the chassis or on a port 
replicator/docking station.  My older laptops have PCMCIA slots, which 
accept excellent cards that provide 2 hardware  RS-232 ports. They've 
been on a LOT of Field Days and California QSO Party county expeditions.


In today's world, 8 GB and an i7 processor is pretty much minimum; it 
runs four RTTY decoders (two on each of two radios for SO2R) 
simultaneously without any problem. I've added solid state drives to two 
laptops, and it's really speeded them up nicely.  One, a T61 Thinkpad, 
is 8 years old!


A local ham who makes his living doing IT for small biz, do  NOT 
recommend Win10, because it has a nasty habit of uninstalling software 
that it doesn't like. I'm sticking win Win7 until it dies.


73, Jim K9YC

On Tue,1/5/2016 2:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 1/5/2016 5:32 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:

A 4-port card is NOT a native RS-232 port. PCI is just another bus
add on.


*Absolutely incorrect*.  A USB to serial converter *of any kind* -
other than the Edgeport products - can not do 45.45, 50, 75 or 100
baud RTTY.  All of the multi-port RS-232 PCI and PCIe cards handle
that task with no problem (although Windows will set 45.45 baud to
45 baud because the API is integer based).

PCI and PCIe based serial and parallel port cards are true memory
addressed ports like motherboard or (obsolete) ISA bus ports - not
USB devices that suffer from latency and driver buffer issues.


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Re: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

2016-01-05 Thread Barry LaZar


Randy,
I seriously do not recommend this approach. I have been working with 
a friend who has been working on a Mac Mini, actually he has two. He has 
been trying to do an integrated station using HRD, FLDIGI, and a few 
other things. These are Windows based and he has been using Boot Camp to 
get to Windows. He discovered that there are driver issues and a few 
other things the prevent easy set up to do what he wants. And to 
compound the insult, his second Mac Mini does does not set up like his 
first.


Most of the really good software that makes for full integration 
easy has been written for a Windows platform. As this is the case, I 
suggest an I5 with lots of memory running Windows 10. In the end, this 
is cost effective and will keep your blood pressure in bounds. As an 
illustration, I run Win4K3 for radio control and spectrum display, 
Com0com for port replication, Hamradio Deluxe for general logging and 
uploading to eQSL and LoTW, CW Skimmer. I switch out CW Skimmer for 
FLDIGI, and during a contest, I use N1MM+ in place of HRD. My experience 
has taught me to not use an Apple base system for this situation. 
However, there are other collections of S/W, but I expect the 
integration my not be as easy.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Randy Cook" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 1/5/2016 8:35:48 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] suggested PC???

Consider an Apple Mac. On the Apple website, you can get a iMac or 
MacBook Air ‘refurbished’. After years of dealing with viruses, blown 
updates, buggy software, etc. on work computers, I come home to a 5 
year old MacBook Air machine that just works and will probably run 
forever. I like MacLoggerDX for station control/logging, but others 
have their favorite.
As to value, I just sold an iMac desktop machine that my son didn’t 
need anymore. He is at college and has a laptop. It was 6 years old and 
I got 40% of the price I paid new for it on eBay. If it were a 6 year 
old PC, I would have had to pay a toxic waste fee to get rid of it.


73

Randy Cook - K6CRC
k6cr...@gmail.com




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