Re: [Elementary-dev-community] About translations in elementary

[ttosttos Sa]

Changing translations from open to structured has been the intent since the
creation of the translation teams.  There have been several threads on the
subject.  There seemed to be a vague consensus of waiting until beta before
introducing the change in hope that would give some time for more
translation teams to be established.
Cheers

--ttosttos

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Cassidy James wrote:

> Devid,
>
> This looks like a good idea from my point of view. Gotwig, is this
> something we can get done? Also, we should get a Journal post written up
> sometime soon with information on how translations work and walk thorough
> how someone can join.
>
> Regards,
> Cassidy James
> On Jul 4, 2012 7:29 AM, "Devid Antonio Filoni"  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> translating some elementary apps in Italian I noticed very bad
>> translations. For example, I found the following translation in
>> scratch:
>>
>> Keep this paste private -> Mantenere questa pasta privato
>> I'm sure you know what "pasta" is and what "paste" means :)
>>
>> Well, as translations can be (and are) used to evalutate quality of
>> applications, I propose to add our translators teams in Launchpad
>> Translators team [1] in order to get help and provide better
>> translations. Setting the permissions policy as "Structured" (and
>> Launchpad Translators as team) will allow us (and Launchpad
>> Translators members) to approve only good translations. People will
>> still be able to add suggestions but they will be approved only by a
>> member of the team.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Devid Antonio Filoni
>>
>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-translators
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Notifications

[Allen Lowe]

I say stick with 0.x for a while longer.

Allen Lowe
On Jul 4, 2012 8:27 PM, "Cassidy James"  wrote:

> While on this topic, are we continuing with the 0.x numbering scheme, or
> do we have a plan for a 1.x release?
> On Jul 3, 2012 12:20 PM, "Daniel Foré"  wrote:
>
>> I've created a 0.3 series that we can target blueprints to:
>>
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/0.3
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Allen Lowe  wrote:
>>
>>> Is there already a blueprint or even better a milestone for collecting
>>> Luna +1 items? And is it well known by the whole community?
>>>
>>> Allen Lowe
>>> On Jul 2, 2012 10:15 PM, "Daniel Foré"  wrote:
>>>
 I absolutely want to look into actions in notifications for Luna +1. I
 think we really have the opportunity to do some great work around
 notifications, confirmations, etc and providing quick actions could
 definitely be one of them :)

 Best Regards,
 Daniel Foré

 El jul 2, 2012, a las 8:44 p.m., Cassidy James 
 escribió:

 Thanks for the reply, Victor. A couple on inline relies:

 On Jul 2, 2012 10:08 PM, "Victor Eduardo" 
 wrote:
 >
 > Hey, that looks good. In regard to your questions:
 >
 >
 > > Does it sound like a good idea?
 >
 > It's working nicely in GNOME Shell, and personally I find actions in
 notifications really useful. In my opinion they make a lot of sense in some
 cases, like when you get notified of a message from a friend. A
 go-to-conversation button would probably make a lot of sense there.
 >

 I didn't know that. This might make it easier since there's less we'd
 have to do and other apps potentially already support it.

 > > How would we go about implementing it?
 > The API is already there. libnotify provides support for adding
 actions, so it's easy to add support for action buttons to our apps.
 Currently, these are only shown when using GNOME Shell AFAIK, since
 notify-osd has no support for them.
 >

 Oh, sweet! I'm definitely interested in looking into it. I am not
 familiar with the API, but I do think it's important that we restrict it as
 far as only showing three actions or something. Is anyone familiar enough
 with the API to chime in here?

 >
 > > What would it look like?
 > It depends on how you implement it on the server side (notify-osd,
 pantheon-notify, etc.). Mockup time!
 >

 Dan, go! ;) Or other designers since Dan has a lot on his plate.

 I do like the idea of only showing the actions when expanding the
 notification. It keeps it clean and out of the way unless the user
 explicitly wants to interact with it.

 >
 > > What problems could it create?
 > Apart from increasing the workload for pantheon-notify's dev(s), I
 don't see any other problem.
 >
 >
 > > What problems could it solve?
 > Interesting question. Let's see what others say :)
 >
 > Regards,
 > Victor
 >
 > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Cassidy James  wrote:
 >>
 >> Hey Devs,
 >>
 >> I was catching up on some Android developer things from I/O last
 week and came across something nifty regarding notifications. In Android
 4.1, Google has added a "big content view" to the notifications, actually
 pretty similar to our idea with the expanded Pantheon Notification.
 However, they've expanded on that: Actions.
 >>
 >>
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yc8YrVc47TI#t=1917s
  (Link
 should point to 31:57)
 >>
 >> With actions, users can quickly and easily perform a relevant action
 without even going to the app. For example, you could have a "Like" button
 on a Facebook notification, "Reply" and "Archive" buttons on an email
 notification, etc. Basically the developer can make it faster for users to
 perform a few actions. Of course they're pretty strictly-controlled by the
 platform so that developers don't get carried away; in Android, you can add
 up to three actions.
 >>
 >> I think it would be an interesting route to look into. With Pantheon
 Notifications we already have an "expanded view" on hover, and it might be
 nice to let developers add a few actions to the notifications. What I want
 to know from all of you is:
 >> Does it sound like a good idea?
 >> How would we go about implementing it?
 >> What would it look like?
 >> What problems could it create?
 >> What problems could it solve?
 >> Of course this is just me throwing an idea out there; I'm not saying
 it's an idea we have to run with or even that it's a good idea. I simply
 have been enjoying this feature on my phone this past week and wanted to
 see if we could brainstorm something similar for on the desktop.
 >>
 >> Regards,
 >> Cassidy James
 

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Notifications

[Cassidy James]

While on this topic, are we continuing with the 0.x numbering scheme, or do
we have a plan for a 1.x release?
On Jul 3, 2012 12:20 PM, "Daniel Foré"  wrote:

> I've created a 0.3 series that we can target blueprints to:
>
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/0.3
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Allen Lowe  wrote:
>
>> Is there already a blueprint or even better a milestone for collecting
>> Luna +1 items? And is it well known by the whole community?
>>
>> Allen Lowe
>> On Jul 2, 2012 10:15 PM, "Daniel Foré"  wrote:
>>
>>> I absolutely want to look into actions in notifications for Luna +1. I
>>> think we really have the opportunity to do some great work around
>>> notifications, confirmations, etc and providing quick actions could
>>> definitely be one of them :)
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Daniel Foré
>>>
>>> El jul 2, 2012, a las 8:44 p.m., Cassidy James  escribió:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply, Victor. A couple on inline relies:
>>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2012 10:08 PM, "Victor Eduardo" 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey, that looks good. In regard to your questions:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Does it sound like a good idea?
>>> >
>>> > It's working nicely in GNOME Shell, and personally I find actions in
>>> notifications really useful. In my opinion they make a lot of sense in some
>>> cases, like when you get notified of a message from a friend. A
>>> go-to-conversation button would probably make a lot of sense there.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I didn't know that. This might make it easier since there's less we'd
>>> have to do and other apps potentially already support it.
>>>
>>> > > How would we go about implementing it?
>>> > The API is already there. libnotify provides support for adding
>>> actions, so it's easy to add support for action buttons to our apps.
>>> Currently, these are only shown when using GNOME Shell AFAIK, since
>>> notify-osd has no support for them.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Oh, sweet! I'm definitely interested in looking into it. I am not
>>> familiar with the API, but I do think it's important that we restrict it as
>>> far as only showing three actions or something. Is anyone familiar enough
>>> with the API to chime in here?
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > What would it look like?
>>> > It depends on how you implement it on the server side (notify-osd,
>>> pantheon-notify, etc.). Mockup time!
>>> >
>>>
>>> Dan, go! ;) Or other designers since Dan has a lot on his plate.
>>>
>>> I do like the idea of only showing the actions when expanding the
>>> notification. It keeps it clean and out of the way unless the user
>>> explicitly wants to interact with it.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > What problems could it create?
>>> > Apart from increasing the workload for pantheon-notify's dev(s), I
>>> don't see any other problem.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > What problems could it solve?
>>> > Interesting question. Let's see what others say :)
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Victor
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Cassidy James  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hey Devs,
>>> >>
>>> >> I was catching up on some Android developer things from I/O last week
>>> and came across something nifty regarding notifications. In Android 4.1,
>>> Google has added a "big content view" to the notifications, actually pretty
>>> similar to our idea with the expanded Pantheon Notification. However,
>>> they've expanded on that: Actions.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yc8YrVc47TI#t=1917s
>>>  (Link
>>> should point to 31:57)
>>> >>
>>> >> With actions, users can quickly and easily perform a relevant action
>>> without even going to the app. For example, you could have a "Like" button
>>> on a Facebook notification, "Reply" and "Archive" buttons on an email
>>> notification, etc. Basically the developer can make it faster for users to
>>> perform a few actions. Of course they're pretty strictly-controlled by the
>>> platform so that developers don't get carried away; in Android, you can add
>>> up to three actions.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think it would be an interesting route to look into. With Pantheon
>>> Notifications we already have an "expanded view" on hover, and it might be
>>> nice to let developers add a few actions to the notifications. What I want
>>> to know from all of you is:
>>> >> Does it sound like a good idea?
>>> >> How would we go about implementing it?
>>> >> What would it look like?
>>> >> What problems could it create?
>>> >> What problems could it solve?
>>> >> Of course this is just me throwing an idea out there; I'm not saying
>>> it's an idea we have to run with or even that it's a good idea. I simply
>>> have been enjoying this feature on my phone this past week and wanted to
>>> see if we could brainstorm something similar for on the desktop.
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Cassidy James
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> >> More he

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] About translations in elementary

[Cassidy James]

Devid,

This looks like a good idea from my point of view. Gotwig, is this
something we can get done? Also, we should get a Journal post written up
sometime soon with information on how translations work and walk thorough
how someone can join.

Regards,
Cassidy James
On Jul 4, 2012 7:29 AM, "Devid Antonio Filoni"  wrote:

> Hi,
> translating some elementary apps in Italian I noticed very bad
> translations. For example, I found the following translation in
> scratch:
>
> Keep this paste private -> Mantenere questa pasta privato
> I'm sure you know what "pasta" is and what "paste" means :)
>
> Well, as translations can be (and are) used to evalutate quality of
> applications, I propose to add our translators teams in Launchpad
> Translators team [1] in order to get help and provide better
> translations. Setting the permissions policy as "Structured" (and
> Launchpad Translators as team) will allow us (and Launchpad
> Translators members) to approve only good translations. People will
> still be able to add suggestions but they will be approved only by a
> member of the team.
>
> Thank you,
> Devid Antonio Filoni
>
> [1] https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-translators
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

Good, thanks for the info. This is offtopic here, sorry for responding here
and with not completely verified info. Won't happen again. Let's move the
discussion to the google doc.
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[Fabian Thoma]

Sorry but before spreading some rumors that aren't ture red this guys own
website:

Ok.  I need all of your input on this.
> At the current rate of donation subscription 
> failures and
> cancellations (though cancellations haven’t been that high… only accounting
> for a tiny, tiny amount of the drop off) the donation total will be *down
> to roughly $900 by Tuesday*.

Source: http://lunduke.com/?p=3594

I'm not sure why you believe this is something that would sustain itself,
but I'm not going to comment on it further

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:

> 2012/7/4 xapantu :
> > Please don't hope you'll get 10,000$ a month with eOS. If we get enough
> to
> > pay 10 travel to our community by year, it'll be very good. Well, we can
> > hope we'll be able to drink something too if we meet. NOBODY will be paid
> > before several years, forget that.
>
> $10,000 a month? Easy peasy cider squeezy. This thing got $4k/month,
> while most people were skeptical about it:
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/help-linux-tycoon-more-go-open-source
>
> And we're freaking elementary! This is partly why I'm so pissed off
> about the backstage decision with no input from community - they're
> about to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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>



-- 
*Fabian Thoma* | *Council Member*
elementary OS
fab...@elementaryos.org / elementaryos.org
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

2012/7/4 xapantu :
> Please don't hope you'll get 10,000$ a month with eOS. If we get enough to
> pay 10 travel to our community by year, it'll be very good. Well, we can
> hope we'll be able to drink something too if we meet. NOBODY will be paid
> before several years, forget that.

$10,000 a month? Easy peasy cider squeezy. This thing got $4k/month,
while most people were skeptical about it:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/help-linux-tycoon-more-go-open-source

And we're freaking elementary! This is partly why I'm so pissed off
about the backstage decision with no input from community - they're
about to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.

-- 
Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
OS architect @ elementary

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[xapantu]

Hi all,

Let's stop about that: the decision making process isn't satifactory, we
all agree on that. I agree with Sergey about most of the things he says,
and I would be happy we improve it. Please note that I am not in the
council, so this "We" is neither the council nor the elementary philosophy,
nor myself with my tux and my computer, I am speaking about all the
elementary contributors.

However, there is no point in spending too much time on that. We need to
finish Luna, or elementary will just die. So let's see that in one month,
when Luna is released.

About the money: this is much more complicated, we need an official
organization if we (again that we) want to manage money, we can't just pay
people like that.
Another thing: the OS market is overladen: Ubuntu, Windows, Mac OS X. If
you really want to get money, some studies needs to be done, see how Ubuntu
can't be installed in OEM, etc... Please don't hope you'll get 10,000$ a
month with eOS. If we get enough to pay 10 travel to our community by year,
it'll be very good. Well, we can hope we'll be able to drink something too
if we meet. NOBODY will be paid before several years, forget that.

Like everyone, like Dan, I have also a real life. And unfortunately, I have
to work a little to eat and feed my tux :P
So, this is my first and last mail on that.

Lucas

2012/7/4 Sergio 

>  I know that I'm very new to elementary and i also know that my voice
> doesn't count too much, however I wanted to say what i I think it's the
> best option.
>
> I think elementary could go with both of them.
> For the "before" maybe a donate button (like the one now in the web)
> should be fine. Also it doesn't have to be "before" as I think noone would
> "pay" for something he never tried, so instead of before should be an
> alternative method.
>
> Fot the "after" I have to say one thing. I have tried some distributions
> (debian,ubuntu, ubuntu derivatives, archlinux, fedora ...) and I have to
> say that the method which worked better for me (althought i didn't donate
> to any of them, sorry) was the one used in chakra.
> They put a plasma widget with things like donate,help the project and
> others which now I don't remember.I think it's the best solution,an easy to
> remove link wich say "donate" in a way user will see it. Also it has to be
> easy to remove as it would get in the way of the user in the case they
> couldn,t remove that, and that's even worse.
>
> All that said I hope that you choose the best method for this project
> (even if that method it's not this).
>
>
> On 03/07/12 23:57, Allen Lowe wrote:
>
> He didn't say it was, he said we haven't changed the revenue model, just
> the web design.
> On Jul 3, 2012 3:53 PM, "Jaap Broekhuizen"  
>  wrote:
>
>
>  Still, how is the revenue model just a webdesign decision?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Daniel Foré  
> wrote:
>
>
>  Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea.
> Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved
> in the topic make the call.
>
> When we're talking about a decision around our developer story, It's best
> to consult with our developers.
>
> When we're talking about a decisions around our design story, it's best
> to consult with our designers.
>
> With our Web story, our web team.
>
> Our translations, our (admittedly new) translation team.
>
> Requiring that everyone have a say in everything is not only going to
> lead to un-informed decisions, but it's going to slow our process way down.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ringwelski  
> wrote:
>
>
>  Dan, are you asking why elementary should follow a democratic,
> whole-team decision making process rather than a more centralized decision
> making process?
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Daniel Foré  
> wrote:
>
>
>  As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and
> responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not always
> able to meet every week and discuss every issue.
>
> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something
> that needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be interested
> to find out from other people why they think we need to directly
> democratize our web design or any design for that matter.
>
> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain
> time schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not be
> aware, but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a
> lot of family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended
> family. I can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this
> Saturday because it's also my mother's birthday.
>
> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any ill
> will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов  
> wrote:
>
>
>  Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
> taken place three

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Managing technical debt

[Daniel Foré]

Hey Sergey,

Not a bad idea. We should definitely track more tasks as bug reports to help us 
stay organized and accountable. 

Might I suggest using "fixme" as a tag instead. It's a lot easier to type and 
harder to misspell :p

Best Regards,
Daniel Foré

El jul 4, 2012, a las 10:32 a.m., Сергей Давыдов  escribió:

> Hey guys,
> 
> Since we're getting closer to release, we'll inevitably end up cutting
> back on some architectural improvements, use some temporary hackish
> solutions or just don't merge some invasive fixes because it's too
> late in the cycle. As you probably know, this is called technical debt
> and it's OK to have some before release as long as it doesn't grow out
> of control (like in OpenOffice.org) and as long as it's all rectified,
> cleaned up and prettified after release (Ubuntu is a vivid example of
> not doing that; hence
> http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-ubuntu-release-process/).
> 
> So to avoid the galling experience of those two projects, we should be
> able to manage technical debt and take time to get rid of it after the
> release and before starting hacking on the new cycle. To manage it,
> let's report a bug for every FIXME in the code, everything you want to
> refactor or implement in a cleaner way and tag these bugs
> "technical-debt". This way a list of all such reports will be
> accessible at 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementary/+bugs?field.tag=technical-debt
> An example of such bug report can be found at
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+bug/1019814
> 
> Let's live long and be a prosperous project.
> 
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> 
> -- 
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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[Elementary-dev-community] Managing technical debt

[Сергей Давыдов]

Hey guys,

Since we're getting closer to release, we'll inevitably end up cutting
back on some architectural improvements, use some temporary hackish
solutions or just don't merge some invasive fixes because it's too
late in the cycle. As you probably know, this is called technical debt
and it's OK to have some before release as long as it doesn't grow out
of control (like in OpenOffice.org) and as long as it's all rectified,
cleaned up and prettified after release (Ubuntu is a vivid example of
not doing that; hence
http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-ubuntu-release-process/).

So to avoid the galling experience of those two projects, we should be
able to manage technical debt and take time to get rid of it after the
release and before starting hacking on the new cycle. To manage it,
let's report a bug for every FIXME in the code, everything you want to
refactor or implement in a cleaner way and tag these bugs
"technical-debt". This way a list of all such reports will be
accessible at 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementary/+bugs?field.tag=technical-debt
An example of such bug report can be found at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+bug/1019814

Let's live long and be a prosperous project.

--
Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff

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