[Elementary-dev-community] Beta2 review from Dedoimedo

[ttosttos Sa]

Folks,

Do a quick search for elementary OS on Google and second link should be
dedoimedo's review for Luna Beta2.  I'd highly recommend a read.  You can't
control what other's write and some of their points may be wrong/unfair
(some completely miss the point in my opinion).  In any case, it's good to
stop and see where they have a valid point.  Criticism helps you improve.
 It may be good to reach out to them to educate or communicate how some of
the issues will be addressed.  That review isn't really good press and
is prominently displayed by Google.
Cheers

ttosttos
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[Elementary-dev-community] Anybody running beta2 in a VM?

[ttosttos Sa]

Having issues with slingshot (Bug
#1179069)
when running beta2 in a VM.  Not sure if it's really slingshot or maybe
gala.  Anybody having success?  I need to distribute some app demo
installations and must use OVA packages.  I was hoping to use Luna.  It
should be a good opportunity to indirectly promote Luna.
Cheers.

ttosttos
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] UI Freeze

[ttosttos Sa]

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1157786
Just rolled back to 3.2.0-38.  let's see how it goes.

ttosttos
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On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Donnie McNeal wrote:

> Hi all, It's my first post to the board. I've been silently following
> along for a couple of months now. Just wanted to say I love what you guys
> are doing with elementary.
>
> In regards to the topic on head - I noticed the same issue and rolled back
> the kernel update to a previous kernel and haven't had the problem.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Cassidy James 
> wrote:
>
>> I've noticed this, along with a few other people on Google+. It seems to
>> be an issue with the latest kernel update and Intel graphics. :-/
>> On Mar 25, 2013 7:31 PM, "ttosttos Sa"  wrote:
>>
>>>  Last few weeks, I've been experienced a catastrophic UI freeze.
>>>  Basically, entire UI becomes non-responsive (no response to mouse events,
>>> no response to hotkeys).  Only responsive desktop element is the pointer,
>>> which  still moves.  Only way to recover is a reboot.  It happens a couple
>>> of times a week. So far, it seems to be triggered when clicking on a
>>> launcher on Plank.  Let me know if you have some suggestions on what info
>>> to capture and how to narrow down, so I can file a bug.
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> ttosttos
>>> --
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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[Elementary-dev-community] UI Freeze

[ttosttos Sa]

Last few weeks, I've been experienced a catastrophic UI freeze.
 Basically, entire UI becomes non-responsive (no response to mouse events,
no response to hotkeys).  Only responsive desktop element is the pointer,
which  still moves.  Only way to recover is a reboot.  It happens a couple
of times a week. So far, it seems to be triggered when clicking on a
launcher on Plank.  Let me know if you have some suggestions on what info
to capture and how to narrow down, so I can file a bug.
Cheers.

ttosttos
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary OS Luna FAQ/guide

[ttosttos Sa]

Certainly commendable and I hope a larger effort pops up on *using* Luna.
 Your doc will certainly be of great value for the subset that want to
*customize* Luna.

ttosttos
--


On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Raphael Isemann wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> i made an little "guide" for luna, mainly for fixes and customization
> that is quite often requested by users. I hope this can help people
> giving support to give better answers, as i try to keep them updated
> and tested and now not everyone has to keep up with the development on
> those questions :).
>
> Please all complaints to the comments on google docs, as i get
> notifications there and i try to fix everything ASAP. Also the
> document should be editable by the elementary-council additionally.
>
> Link to the document:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lTFBfM5OQBszeEQ7r6SJ8xZW440hxlhhMhnyiXLrKk4/edit#
>
> All glory regarding this document to shnatsel the lion king which
> delighted myself with his knowledge (yeah shnatsel, you didn't expect
> that i really write that, didn't you?).
>
> -Raphael "Teemperor" Isemann
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Switchboard Restructure

[ttosttos Sa]

Vertical layout is not as friendly to wrapping around plug-ins for those
categories with numerous entries.  Layout is also less friendly to addition
of new categories or cleaner visualization when you have categories with a
significant different number of plug-ins.  Current horizontal layout works
better in my opinion.

ttosttos


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Cody Garver  wrote:

> This was proposed for merge before and Disapproved by DanRabbit.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:36 PM, David Gomes wrote:
>
>> >obviously
>> I prefer this very much and don't see why not for Luna as long as no bugs
>> are associated with it.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Sam Tate  wrote:
>>
>>> How do we all feel about this new layout for Switchboard? Obviously this
>>> isn't for Luna, but I think it's really nice, and we can switch (heh) to it
>>> in L+1.
>>>
>>> Objections?
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Cody Garver
>
>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Bug #969343 luna-beta1

[ttosttos Sa]

There is a nasty bug in Precise that affects WPA Enterprise authentication
for WiFi.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wpasupplicant/+bug/969343
It pretty much makes a wireless connection useless in an enterprise
environment (where WPA Ent is common).  That authentication method should
be be popular in colleges and universities too.  There's a recent fix which
I don't know if it has trickled down to Luna unstable builds or not.  Not
sure how close Luna beta1 is, but I'd suggest to track this bug for
luna-beta1 somehow, so it includes the fix or at least luna-beta1 comes
with the disclaimer.

--ttosttos
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary Luna GRUB theme

[ttosttos Sa]

That'd be very nice instead of the purplish (44,0,30) background.
 Something simple that blends with plymouth.

--ttosttos

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Eduard Gotwig wrote:

> What about a super sexy grub theme :D ?
>
> Something like
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GS%2BBeefy+Miracle+GRUB+and+Plymouth+theme?content=154495
>  ,
> maybe?
>
>
> Just wanted to ask, before I make a big blueprint.
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Screencasts

[ttosttos Sa]

cool!  Using a VM should give you the ability to get a native recording of
user login.
Cheers.

--ttosttos

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Sam Tate  wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Just a quick heads-up for those of you that don't follow the Google+ - I
> have released *four* new screencasts tonight:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuTQvPlhoEY
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhx0dmUKEFE&feature=g-all-esi
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JiHjTuOm90&feature=plcp
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kDGDl-4Yl0&feature=plcp
>
> Tell me what you think :)
>
> Sam Tate
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Power plug is finished!

[ttosttos Sa]

Some feedback... Upgrade installs new plug and keeps old one. SB is left
with two power plugs.  UI doesn't like look like in Harvey's mockup, but I
guess that's expected.
Cheers.

--ttosttos

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Daniel Foré wrote:

> If it's not too crazy, I think I'd try to position the items in the scale
> logarithmically, so like
>
> 5 Mins
>
> 15 Mins
>
> 1 Hr
>
> Never
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Chris Triantafillis <
> christriant1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> and where i should put the 1 hour mark?
>>
>> 2012/9/29 Jakob Eriksson 
>>
>>> That is logical to you because you KNOW that it it's represented by zer0.
>>>
>>> On 09/29/2012 08:41:04 PM, 
>>> elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.netwrote:
>>> >[1]http://ubuntuone.com/1Dv5NolTPVjqRYDyd6Pfqa
>>> >
>>> >HarvKitty says to add a "Never" label to the right end of the
>>> > scale...
>>> >
>>> >It doesn't make sense to me, "Never" is represents by zero (0) so
>>> > i believe it must be at the start of the scale...
>>> >
>>> >@Dan what do you think?
>>> >2012/9/28 Chris Triantafillis <[2]christriant1...@gmail.com>
>>> >
>>> >  So i should re-write the UI?
>>> >
>>> >I'll try to add the LevelBar thing also
>>> >2012/9/28 Daniel Foré <[3]dan...@elementaryos.org>
>>> >
>>> >  Very nice! Definitely like Harvey's mockup. Looks super slick
>>> > :D The alignment here is just beautiful haha
>>> >
>>> >I agree the labels at the bottom could be kind of funny sounding
>>> > "Press the power button to do nothing." haha.
>>> >
>>> >Maybe we should go with "When the power button is pressed:" Ask
>>> > me, Do nothing, Shutdown?
>>> >On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Chris Triantafillis
>>> > <[4]christriant1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >  the labels can be changed!
>>> >
>>> >2012/9/28 Pim Vullers <[5]p...@vullersmail.nl>
>>> >
>>> >  I like it as well, only the last entries will read a bit
>>> > strange when
>>> >  you choose a 'Do nothing' option. Furthermore the top buttons
>>> > to switch
>>> >  power mode look a bit strange to me... it is not entirely clear
>>> > how it
>>> >  works.
>>> >
>>> >On 09/28/2012 01:26 PM, Chris Triantafillis wrote:
>>> >> I like it! What others have to say?
>>> >
>>> >> 2012/9/28 Harvey Cabaguio <[6]harveycabag...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >  > >
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Made a mock of the power plug. Â
>>> > [8]http://i.imgur.com/JbbrY.png
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Cody Garver
>>> > <[9]codygar...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Hey dkotrada, we still have not made the plugs
>>> > available for
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  translation by you guys. It should happen within a
>>> > week if
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  things go well.
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:40 AM, dkotrada
>>> > <[11]dkotr...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Launchpad Status from
>>> > [13]http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  We are currently experiencing some issues
>>> > with translations
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  imports,
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  and it is currently being looked into
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Can't get translations for power plug.
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  2012/9/26 Chris Triantafillis
>>> > <[14]christriant1...@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >  > Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >:
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > Hm...i don't know...
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > Lets see what the others have to say...
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > 2012/9/26 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>> >
>>> >  > Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <[16]ser...@elementaryos.org
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> I have two laptops that have two
>>> > batteries: a regular one
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  and an add-on
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> battery that's purchased separately or
>>> > with an extension
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  dock. But they both
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> power the laptop, and I have to know
>>> > what's going on with
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  both. I don't
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> remember how Ubuntu displays that though,
>>> > because the
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  laptops are old and
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> internal batteries are long dead.
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> Mice also may have batteries and report
>>> > their status to
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  the PC AFAIK, but
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> I think an indicator is sufficient to
>>> > display that.
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>
>>> >> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>
>>> >> Â  Â 

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Granite Release

[ttosttos Sa]

I guess if my previous argument holds water, a click on the + should
actually add a tab on the left (contrary to my previous statement).  A
double-click on the right (empty space) should add a tab on the right.  The
logic would be: action on the tabbar happens closest to its trigger.  I
think it's safe to assume that user attention is close to the pointer.  For
an add started from outside the tabbar (e.g. from an App menu), I'd still
favor the tab to appear on the empty space, instead of the shift which is
more visually distracting.

--ttosttos

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:16 PM, ttosttos Sa  wrote:

> Oopss... watch out for that argument.  It doesn't hold true for millions
> (should probably say billions) of people around the world :-)  I find the
> shifting of all tabs a bit unintuitive.  I personally find more natural
> that new tabs fill the empty space instead of shifting all the existing
> tabs.  In addition, double click on the empty tabbar space currently has
> the odd result of adding a tab far away from where the double click took
> place (which should be where the user attention is).
>
>
> --ttosttos
> ps. On a somewhat related note, I think the widget could benefit from some
> visual work.
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Voldyman  wrote:
>
>> Another argument can be that most of the languages we use are written
>> from left to right so our mental model dictates that the new things should
>> be on the right and the left side remains unchanged.
>> example.
>> we write
>> D
>> Da
>> Dan
>> -not
>> n
>> an
>> Dan
>>
>> On Sep 25,  2012, at 6:10 AM, Daniel Fore 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yea I commented on the bug report, IIRC.
>>
>> The biggest argument I heard for tabs on the right side was that the
>> mental model of the tabbar flow from most used to least used (just like the
>> toolbar). So when you insert a new tab, you are by-definition placing the
>> least-used (so far) tab on the left side in front of the most used (longest
>> open) tabs.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:50 AM, David Gomes 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sergey,
>>
>> The other day we were talking about this on IRC and we almost changed
>> Daniel's mind I think. I'm not 100% sure of what he thinks now, but the
>> general opinion is to have tabs opening on the right on every single
>> application for consistency with 3rd party apps, because we read from left
>> to right and because adding tabs on the beginning makes our brain
>> reorganize the tab system (we have to +1 the position of every single tab,
>> since it gets changed).
>>
>> Those were some of the arguments presented.
>>
>> David "Munchor" Gomes
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 
>> <
>> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I've just remembered - Ctrl+T adds tabs on the right of the current one,
>>> not on the left. This seems inconsistent to me. Is it a Granite bug or it
>>> should be fixed in the apps?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>> OS architect @ elementary
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Granite Release

[ttosttos Sa]

Oopss... watch out for that argument.  It doesn't hold true for millions
(should probably say billions) of people around the world :-)  I find the
shifting of all tabs a bit unintuitive.  I personally find more natural
that new tabs fill the empty space instead of shifting all the existing
tabs.  In addition, double click on the empty tabbar space currently has
the odd result of adding a tab far away from where the double click took
place (which should be where the user attention is).


--ttosttos
ps. On a somewhat related note, I think the widget could benefit from some
visual work.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Voldyman  wrote:

> Another argument can be that most of the languages we use are written from
> left to right so our mental model dictates that the new things should be on
> the right and the left side remains unchanged.
> example.
> we write
> D
> Da
> Dan
> -not
> n
> an
> Dan
>
> On Sep 25,  2012, at 6:10 AM, Daniel Fore  wrote:
>
> Yea I commented on the bug report, IIRC.
>
> The biggest argument I heard for tabs on the right side was that the
> mental model of the tabbar flow from most used to least used (just like the
> toolbar). So when you insert a new tab, you are by-definition placing the
> least-used (so far) tab on the left side in front of the most used (longest
> open) tabs.
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:50 AM, David Gomes 
> wrote:
>
> Sergey,
>
> The other day we were talking about this on IRC and we almost changed
> Daniel's mind I think. I'm not 100% sure of what he thinks now, but the
> general opinion is to have tabs opening on the right on every single
> application for consistency with 3rd party apps, because we read from left
> to right and because adding tabs on the beginning makes our brain
> reorganize the tab system (we have to +1 the position of every single tab,
> since it gets changed).
>
> Those were some of the arguments presented.
>
> David "Munchor" Gomes
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 
> <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>> I've just remembered - Ctrl+T adds tabs on the right of the current one,
>> not on the left. This seems inconsistent to me. Is it a Granite bug or it
>> should be fixed in the apps?
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>> OS architect @ elementary
>>
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Add option in Gala to disable minimize

[ttosttos Sa]

Blurring the lines between minimize and close is a good vision that I'd
expect it to face challenges in real life for Luna. While the user
experience with elementary apps should be great, the reality is that the
Luna experience may not be that smooth for many users that depend on more
than just elementary apps. Take for example, a browser with a large number
of tabs, a virtual machine window, even shotwell.  I'd expect those to be
common use cases with significant differences in user experience between
close and minimize.  I agree that Luna messaging needs to be pretty good in
explaining why there's no minimize button, plus there should be a backdoor
to enable it for those too annoyed.  I understand the backdoor kind of
exists, but the window decoration is missing in the theme.

--ttosttos

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Keith Adair  wrote:

> Sergey: +1
>
> I think it's currently a bit confusing that
>
> A. There is no minimize button
>
> B. Clicking on the app in Plank minimizes
>
> C. There is no indication that the app is running but minimized
>
> So I think there should be no one-click way to minimize for the user. If a
> user is desperately missing that function, there should be an toggle in
> Dconf. But I don't think that minimize fits into the elementary operational
> mindset. If an app like a music app wants to minimize, that's fine.
>
> On a related point, I think that a few different points about Luna are
> going to be seen as something totally new for some users, and might need
> some hand-holding and direction for the new user.
>
> A. No minimize
>
> B. No difference between running and non-running apps
>
> C. Fairly heavy use of multiple desktops, etc.
>
> Maybe a slideshow during install?
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
> 2012/9/20 Nishant Agrwal 
>
>> What do you guys think of this:
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/gala/+spec/option-to-disable-minimize
>>
>
> I can't see the point of that personally. Could you provide an example use
> case in which disabling minimize on the WM side is better than leaving
> things as they are?
>
> In my vision minimize is still there but not exposed to the user; e.g.
> music player should minimize instead of closing if its window is closed
> while it's playing music.
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Geary Naming

[ttosttos Sa]

In principle, it sounds like the right thing to do from an user
perspective. However, I wonder where you draw the line? Do you run the risk
of creating more confusion when the Geary string pops up here and there
(e.g. about dialog, help, etc).  Where do you draw the line in the
substitution?

--ttosttos

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Daniel Foré wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I'd like to propose that in elementary we refer to Geary as "Mail" in
> Slingshot/Dock/etc. Simply because I feel like "Geary" doesn't really have
> anything to do with Mail and it's original intention was simply to be a
> code name.
>
> Any objections or strong desire to keep it "Geary"?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] OEM Installation mode

[ttosttos Sa]

I rarely run into issues loading elementary ISOs on VBox.  Last one, I
tried was 9/5 w/o any issues.

ttosttos
--

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Craig  wrote:

> How do we test clean installs? I've noticed virtualbox can't seem to read
> eOS isos.
> On Sep 17, 2012 4:43 PM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey Alex,
>>
>> All patches are properly propagated now. Please test OEM installation and
>> report results.
>>
>> 2012/8/27 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 
>>
>>> The updates have finally* landed to PPAs, so I've put together an
>>> updated ISO image. It does not include our 
>>> patchesof
>>>  Ubiquity because imports
>>> of Ubuntu packages to 
>>> Launchpadare
>>>  lagging (as usually) and Ubiquity patch is not yet rebased onto our
>>> custom import 
>>> infrastructure.
>>> But we didn't change anything critical, so I guess OEM installation should
>>> still work. As far as the "prepare for shipping" launcher goes, it should
>>> be present in the dock now.
>>>
>>> *usually it doesn't take that long. Canonical happened to be moving
>>> datacenters and that caused some quirks and delays.
>>>
>>> 2012/8/18 Alejandro Morales Lepe :
>>>
>>> > Hi Sergey!
>>> >
>>> > I will test as soon as you notify me of the .iso!
>>> >
>>> > - Alex
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>> OS architect @ elementary
>>
>> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Running App Indicators

[ttosttos Sa]

+1 on running app indicators unless a simple, _mouse only_ expose for app
windows is available (e.g. long hover over dock icon exposing running
screens).  There are useful apps that don't support tabs and, even for
those that do, you may still want to run multiple windows with different
parameters (e.g. a browser with private and non-private settings).
 Switching focus to a particular instance of an app is a bit involved today.

--ttosttos

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Daniel Foré wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> I've seen a few mails/reports about the current lack of running app
> indicators in Luna. I wanted to get a feel for how people who have been
> using Luna for a while feel about it. Namely, is this something people are
> complaining about because they expect it and aren't used to it yet, or is
> this a real problem?
>
> Personally, I don't miss them at all. I haven't used them for almost a
> year now (When Gala was just a dream haha). Luna is so good on resources
> that it hardly matters if an app is open or not and you can easily see if
> something is open from Gala's Workspace Overview since minimize isn't part
> of our regular workflow. But it also has the added benefit of saving a few
> pixels on the bottom of the dock (since our OOTB default is
> hide-on-maximize and not intelli or autohide I think keep the dock small is
> still important).
>
> If we do decide that running app indicators are important, would it be
> terribly difficult to make this a switch in the desktop plug? We may need
> to ask Rico to add a key for this since I think we wouldn't want to have
> this update for every user on the system (since the theming is currently
> stored globally). Because I do think that there are probably a significant
> amount of people for which the running indicators just aren't terribly
> useful in Luna and it could still remain as the default. But hey, that's
> why I am asking!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Top diagonal window resize

[ttosttos Sa]

Diagonal window resize is rather tricky in Luna.  The active spot seems to
be where the window corner would be if it were squared and not rounded.

Jupiter
http://videobin.org/+60y/6nw.html

Luna
http://videobin.org/+60z/6ny.html

Didn't find a bug already for it.  Should I create one?  Gala?

ttosttos
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Keep the elementaryos.org updated

[ttosttos Sa]

Couldn't agree more.  There have been gaps of up to a month between journal
postings, plus the answers section seems a bit slow at times (despite the
large number of registered users).  Some things that could be explored (in
no particular order):
1. Push new web page.  I know it's been under development for a long time.
I expect it to improve on social/collaboration options beyond today's page.
 Ultimately, user participation would be key to distribute content
generation.
2. Encourage more regular journal postings (~1/week?).  Easiest would be to
build a pipeline of postings and dish them out with a more frequent
cadence.
3. Widen the scope of journal postings.  For instance, including how-to,
tips etc. If one looks at omgubuntu, there is a good number of different
types of postings.
4. For Luna+1, elementary should consider releases with a narrower scope,
so they can happen more frequently.  For a project that is still nascent in
many aspects, having an 18+ gap between releases doesn't help drive the
image of a project that is dynamic and healthy.

ttosttos
--

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Mensur Zahirovic wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I think the elementaryos.org should be updated more frequently.
> Niel has passed away almost 3 weeks ago and the banner is still up? Why is
> not happening on journal side?
>
> I mean there are 20 000 people registered and I'm sure alot of the go on
> the daily basis to check for the news but for a quite some time now
> it has been looking like the webpage is dead.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheerz Nookie^
>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Indicator placement

[ttosttos Sa]

One of the recurring issues I experienced with Jupiter was the constant
re-arrangement of indicators in the top panel.  Even the "close session"
indicator would end up in the middle.  Luna/Wingpanel seem to perform
better here.  However, after installing some additional indicators (system
load, weather), I see that those get loaded in the middle of the Luna
standard indicators.  When those indicators are started manually, they are
displayed to the left of the Luna standard indicators which I'd consider
the proper behavior.  Have there been any discussions on what correct
behavior should be?  I'm planning to file a bug for having all user
installed indicators always be displayed to the left of Luna defaults.

ttosttos
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[Elementary-dev-community] Removing launchers from Plank

[ttosttos Sa]

On ver 0.2.0.685, dragging an icon out triggers a short "puff" animation
and right after, the icon appears again back in the dock for at least a
second before it finally disappears again.  Didn't find an existing bug for
it.  Is this known?  Is it fixed in another branch/version?  Should I file
a new bug?
Thanks.

ttosttos
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[Elementary-dev-community] Indicators displayed incorrectly

[ttosttos Sa]

Network and weather indicators (USC) don't quite show correctly.
http://videobin.org/+60e/6nb.html
Didn't find a match under
https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-pantheon-session/+bugs
Let me know if I'm missing something. Otherwise, I'll file a new bug.

--ttosttos
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Plank default hide mode missing?

[ttosttos Sa]

Let me take that back.  I only get top-left corner to work regardless of
display used.  Others seem to be a no-op.

ttosttos
--

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:22 PM, ttosttos Sa  wrote:

> Regarding desktop plug, hot corners don't seem to work with an external
> display (not an extended display).  Didn't find a match at
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-plugs
> Is that known/expected?  Otherwise, I'll file one.
> Thanks.
>
> ttosttos
> --
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Cody Garver  wrote:
>
>> switchboard-plug-pantheon-shell does in fact have the Plank option you're
>> looking for.
>>
>> The old Plank plug has now been removed from distribution.
>>
>> I would remove switchboard-plug-appearance but it also has some
>> additional themeing tweaks that are not desired anywhere else.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Cody Garver wrote:
>>
>>> Unless plank settings were removed from shell plug.. I'm not at my PC to
>>> check.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cody Garver
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:51 AM, ttosttos Sa  wrote:
>>>
>>> > After a fresh Luna install, I was seeing some unusual hide behavior
>>> for Plank.  When I installed the plug, I noticed that the hide mode shows
>>> blank.  Is the default hide mode set incorrectly?  Should the switchboard
>>> plug be installed by default?  Quickly browsed bugs and didn't spot one
>>> matching this.  Should one be filed?
>>> >
>>> > ttosttos
>>> > --
>>> > ps. setting intelligent hide mode on plug seems to yield expected
>>> behavior.
>>> > --
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>>> > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cody Garver
>>
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Plank default hide mode missing?

[ttosttos Sa]

Regarding desktop plug, hot corners don't seem to work with an external
display (not an extended display).  Didn't find a match at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-plugs
Is that known/expected?  Otherwise, I'll file one.
Thanks.

ttosttos
--

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Cody Garver  wrote:

> switchboard-plug-pantheon-shell does in fact have the Plank option you're
> looking for.
>
> The old Plank plug has now been removed from distribution.
>
> I would remove switchboard-plug-appearance but it also has some additional
> themeing tweaks that are not desired anywhere else.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Cody Garver  wrote:
>
>> Unless plank settings were removed from shell plug.. I'm not at my PC to
>> check.
>>
>> --
>> Cody Garver
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:51 AM, ttosttos Sa  wrote:
>>
>> > After a fresh Luna install, I was seeing some unusual hide behavior for
>> Plank.  When I installed the plug, I noticed that the hide mode shows
>> blank.  Is the default hide mode set incorrectly?  Should the switchboard
>> plug be installed by default?  Quickly browsed bugs and didn't spot one
>> matching this.  Should one be filed?
>> >
>> > ttosttos
>> > --
>> > ps. setting intelligent hide mode on plug seems to yield expected
>> behavior.
>> > --
>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Plank default hide mode missing?

[ttosttos Sa]

After a fresh Luna install, I was seeing some unusual hide behavior for
Plank.  When I installed the plug, I noticed that the hide mode shows
blank.  Is the default hide mode set incorrectly?  Should the switchboard
plug be installed by default?  Quickly browsed bugs and didn't spot one
matching this.  Should one be filed?

ttosttos
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Messaging Menu

[ttosttos Sa]

Have never found it useful. Don't use it.  Agree that would be a good FB
question.

ttosttos

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Voldyman  wrote:

> The messaging menu is not very useful at the moment as geary does not use
> it to display unread mails.
> I have been using luna beta for 2 months and geary is the least useful app
> IMO as it does not notify of new email, i tried replying using it but didnt
> like it.
> I am pro notification center for L+1 but till then we should keep the
> messaging menu and persuade Yorba people to support background email check
> and notification via messaging menu.
>
> Voldyman
>
>
> On 29-Aug-2012, at 11:12 PM, "satch...@gmail.com"t  
> wrote:
>
> I think the messaging menu has outlasted its usefulness. Ubuntu has
> crammed too many things in it, and the urgent response demanded by chat is
> very different from the simple notification of new email (leading to the
> envelope being blue permanently). It's also very hard to hit the button; I
> often end up clicking the battery indicator.
>
> I think tab badges in Geary, Empathy, etc, coupled with whatever
> elementary has replaced NotifyOSD with, are more than enough. In L+1,
> elementary could consider a notifications centre.
>
> On 29 August 2012 22:42, David Gomes < 
> da...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>> Well Daniel, I don't use it, but IMO this is a more Facebook-question,
>> because we are a very small share of elementary OS / Ubuntu users.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Daniel Foré < 
>> dan...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey guys,
>>>
>>> Just a quick question: does anyone use the messaging menu? If so, what
>>> for?
>>>
>>> If not, should we consider not shipping it?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Daniel Foré
>>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] About translations in elementary

[ttosttos Sa]

You seem to be confusing the permission policy for translations with the
subscription policy for a team.  Those are two separate policies.
 Structured is the most lax translation policy after open while structured
is the tightest policy for a team.  IMHO, elementary projects should
eventually have a structured translation policy while translation teams
should have a moderated policy. See
https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies
https://help.launchpad.net/Teams/CreatingAndRunning#Subscription_policies
Cheeers.

--ttosttos

On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Eduard Gotwig  wrote:

> btw, for restricted:  "Only the team's administrators can invite a user
> to be a member. " Is that what we want?.. IMHO everyone should be able,
> to at least apply for membership
>
>
> 2012/7/5 Eduard Gotwig 
>
>> If we want to do that, all added subteams have to have this restriction
>> mode set as well. If not, you cant change it. IMHO everyone should be able
>> to make suggestions, but ONLY members , and all members, can approve the
>> translations. Like an elite group ;)
>>
>>
>> 2012/7/5 ttosttos Sa 
>>
>>> Changing translations from open to structured has been the intent since
>>> the creation of the translation teams.  There have been several threads on
>>> the subject.  There seemed to be a vague consensus of waiting until beta
>>> before introducing the change in hope that would give some time for more
>>> translation teams to be established.
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --ttosttos
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Cassidy James 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Devid,
>>>>
>>>> This looks like a good idea from my point of view. Gotwig, is this
>>>> something we can get done? Also, we should get a Journal post written up
>>>> sometime soon with information on how translations work and walk thorough
>>>> how someone can join.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Cassidy James
>>>> On Jul 4, 2012 7:29 AM, "Devid Antonio Filoni" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> translating some elementary apps in Italian I noticed very bad
>>>>> translations. For example, I found the following translation in
>>>>> scratch:
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep this paste private -> Mantenere questa pasta privato
>>>>> I'm sure you know what "pasta" is and what "paste" means :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, as translations can be (and are) used to evalutate quality of
>>>>> applications, I propose to add our translators teams in Launchpad
>>>>> Translators team [1] in order to get help and provide better
>>>>> translations. Setting the permissions policy as "Structured" (and
>>>>> Launchpad Translators as team) will allow us (and Launchpad
>>>>> Translators members) to approve only good translations. People will
>>>>> still be able to add suggestions but they will be approved only by a
>>>>> member of the team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Devid Antonio Filoni
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-translators
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
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>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] About translations in elementary

[ttosttos Sa]

Changing translations from open to structured has been the intent since the
creation of the translation teams.  There have been several threads on the
subject.  There seemed to be a vague consensus of waiting until beta before
introducing the change in hope that would give some time for more
translation teams to be established.
Cheers

--ttosttos

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Cassidy James wrote:

> Devid,
>
> This looks like a good idea from my point of view. Gotwig, is this
> something we can get done? Also, we should get a Journal post written up
> sometime soon with information on how translations work and walk thorough
> how someone can join.
>
> Regards,
> Cassidy James
> On Jul 4, 2012 7:29 AM, "Devid Antonio Filoni"  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> translating some elementary apps in Italian I noticed very bad
>> translations. For example, I found the following translation in
>> scratch:
>>
>> Keep this paste private -> Mantenere questa pasta privato
>> I'm sure you know what "pasta" is and what "paste" means :)
>>
>> Well, as translations can be (and are) used to evalutate quality of
>> applications, I propose to add our translators teams in Launchpad
>> Translators team [1] in order to get help and provide better
>> translations. Setting the permissions policy as "Structured" (and
>> Launchpad Translators as team) will allow us (and Launchpad
>> Translators members) to approve only good translations. People will
>> still be able to add suggestions but they will be approved only by a
>> member of the team.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Devid Antonio Filoni
>>
>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-translators
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[ttosttos Sa]

It's a fact that you hold the most LP karma for elementary... and facts are
stubborn things. Your contributions go deep and wide.  Miscommunication
shouldn't get in the way for the sake of the project.

--ttosttos


On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Сергей Давыдов  wrote:

> Yesterday I announced in #elementary-dev and #elementary-web that I'm
> quitting the project. Rumors spread fast and they're usually more scary
> than truth is, so I'm writing this to clarify what happened, what caused me
> to do that and "if I'm really quitting".
>
> *What happened*
>
> I'm attaching the controversial log so you don't have to take my word for
> anything. My IRC nickname is "SergeLion" these days.
> I removed the username and password required to access the development
> site from the log because I'm not sure I'm allowed to publish them and
> replaced them with " publish them. --shnatsel>". No other edits were done.
>
> The frontpage discussed in the log is down at the moment, but you can
> download the mockup at
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-design/+junk/mockups/view/131/elementaryweb/Frontpage/Luna/homeluna.svg
> It seems to require Inkscape for proper rendering.
>
> *What's my problem with that*
>
> My problem is particularly about this part:
>
> Once again, this is not the time or place for that
>> discussion
>> the discussion is not about whether the pay process is
>> attached to the download process
>> it is
>> that's how it's gonna go down
>> the discussion is about how we ensure people know they can
>> pay $0 if they'd like
>> DanRabbit: where and when do I start the business model
>> discussion?
>> SergeLion: like 6 months ago or after this model doesn't
>> work out.
>> DanRabbit: shit. I quit. Now.
>> It's a little freaking late to try to change everything
>> dude
>> It's not like we didn't have this discussion a LONG time
>> ago
>>
>
> Business or fundraising model is an important and touchy issue affecting
> the whole project. I'm a little surprised that as a (mere) developer, I'm
> not aware of an important project decision made "like 6 months ago". I'm
> especially surprised by the closed-door business model decision because
> I've been studying the free software phenomenon for the past two years, and
> I did mention that more than once to the council. I cannot show off a PhD
> in free software and free culture theory, mostly because this subject is
> pretty much unexplored and I'm kind of breaking new ground. There are even
> hardly any books on the subject - Eric Raymond's "Cathedral and the Bazaar"
> back from 1997 and Lawrence Lessig's "Free Culture" are pretty much
> everything we have, and I'm not aware of any work besides mine to
> systematize the recent facts and give a broader understanding of how e.g.
> free culture business works and how it can be used. My only arguments for
> being right are: always relying on facts and existing success stories,
> being invited to lecture along with professors and accomplished
> businessmen, and not being proven wrong so far. Sure, I cannot state I know
> or correctly understand everything, but I at least did study the subject
> and as of my experience no-cost business/fundraising model will work much
> better (do I have to remind of Nine Inch Nails' albums being released *for
> free download* under creative commons and failing to reach tops of any
> charts but *ranking #1 paid purchase* on Amazon MP3 service at the same
> time?)
>
> I've uploaded and shared the funding opportunities document with the
> council on the 26th of March 2012. Here's the document, you can see that in
> the revision history:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pAEymg8cQ5-tqhn6exxaUEWZbZXQ47YbfeYkM6nMqdQ/edit
> The document invitation was sent to coun...@elementaryos.org, so I assume
> the Council members were aware of its existence.
> That was 3 months ago. I was not notified by any Council member that
> everything is already decided.
>
> And now I'm confronted by an accomplished fact. The decision is made. It's
> not backed by any successful cases and it seems to be vastly suboptimal, if
> not disappointing to me. I think I have a better alternative. But I cannot
> influence the decision. And it's also disappointing because this is not the
> way I intended my work to be used.
>
> I can't help but feel pwned. These are not the ideals towards which I've
> been working all this time. This is not the elementary into which I can put
> my spare time, effort, hopes or beliefs. I'm not going to willingly put my
> effort into it. I'm quitting.
>
> *What really happened*
>
> I have to admit DanRabbit always took my concerns into account and never
> pushed his decisions, and for that I respect him greatly. This is actually
> the first time I bump into such issue for the whole my year-long
> participation. This is really not like

[Elementary-dev-community] Make translations automatic for pantheon-files and eidete

[ttosttos Sa]

A couple of elementary apps are not exporting translations automatic:
pantheon-files and eidete.  The current settings should be preventing
suggested translations to actually be used by the app.  If you
maintain these two apps (~elementary-apps member), please go to
translations settings and set up automatic export of translations to
trunk.

https://translations.launchpad.net/eidete/trunk/+translations-settings
https://translations.launchpad.net/pantheon-files/trunk/+translations-settings

Thanks.

--ttosttos

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Default Window Manger in Luna

[ttosttos Sa]

IMHO, the decision on default WM for Luna should be rather simple.
Let's go with what Precise uses.  The goal is to release Luna when
"it's ready", not when "it's perfect".  It's hard to believe that
Compiz is good enough for Precise and not for Luna.  We're holding
back a lot of great developments from current and potential elementary
users.

Having said that, it's awesome to see the type of innovation that Gala
brings.  I'd suggest to actively develop it under a L+1 series, so
users can enjoy it not too long after Luna. Let's name the release,
let's create the series and hack away.  The fact that there's a steady
stream of ideas and people willing to work on them is a testament to
the health of the dev community.  Let's just channel those efforts, so
the larger community of users can benefit.
My .2c.

--ttosttos

On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Cody Garver  wrote:
> After a couple weeks of debate over what will be the default window manager
> for Luna (I know what you're thinking, it's kind of late for that, right?)
> the gauntlet has been thrown!
>
> A deal has been brokered between Shnatsel, technical architect of elementary
> OS, and the team (tom95, gardengnome85 and ricotz) behind the new
> libmutter-based window manager, Gala.
>
> Gala will be made default window manager in the Luna dailies for a trial of
> two weeks. If the major bugs this presents are not squashed within the trial
> period, Compiz 0.9 will win the role of default window manager.
>
> These changes will take effect as soon as Plank positioning has been
> straightened out under Gala.
>
> --
> Cody Garver
>
> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] About Dialog

[ttosttos Sa]

Adding About dialog as a quicklist item sounds like a good idea
regardless.  I think dialog should be reachable from AppMenu for those
apps with one.  We should discourage apps w/o a toolbar from adding an
AppMenu to make the About dialog discoverable.

--ttosttos


On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Daniel Foré  wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> When we first did the AppMenu, I think we felt that having only a single
> menu for an app was being extremely optimistic about it's design. But it
> seems that even so, some of the apps that have been built for elementary
> (Switchboard, Eidete, etc) are so contextual and awesome that they don't
> need an AppMenu at all except for a single item: About.
>
> What I'd like to propose is moving "About" into a quicklist item. I think
> this would make sense because it's About the App not just the current
> Window, and it would give us a consistent place to put this item (that I'm
> pretty sure we all want for all of our apps) without requiring
> yet-another-otherwise-useless-piece-of-UI.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Translatable launchers

[ttosttos Sa]

After some research (and a lot of help from "Shnatsel"), I'm proposing
using gettext templates to translate launchers in Luna.  This approach
is much more manageable than embedding translations in .desktop files.
It allows users to contribute translations via LP which automates
translations significantly. I'll propose

1. Launcher changes with  X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain key (more generic)
and updated templates (.pot) to individual apps
2. Text for Dev Guide with details on how launchers should be made
translatable (.desktop and .pot instructions)
3. Some HIG text to clarify that GenericName/Comment keys in desktop
entries and names in shortcut groups/actions should be translatable

As an example, a modified launcher for Scratch would look like this:

[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Version=1.1
Name=Scratch
Comment=Edit text files
GenericName=Text Editor
Exec=scratch %U
Icon=scratch
Terminal=false
Categories=GNOME;GTK;Utility;TextEditor;
MimeType=text/plain;
StartupNotify=true
MimeType=text/plain;
X-GNOME-Gettext-Domain=scratch

...snip...

Translatable shortcut groups and actions should come with
https://bugs.launchpad.net/plank/+bug/1004089
https://bugs.launchpad.net/plank/+bug/1004034

Comments/suggestions welcome.

--ttosttos

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Dema Siado  wrote:
> Noticed that some (all?) elementary apps don't have translatable launchers.
>  Is the intent to use localized keys (e.g. Comment[es]=...) or follow the
> approach used in Ubuntu (X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain key).  HIG should be
> updated to provide details.
>
> --ttosttos

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