Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
El Thu, 6 de Feb 2014 a las 12:26 AM, Pim Vullers p...@vullersmail.nl escribió: On 02/06/2014 12:00 AM, Cameron Norman wrote: * libunity9 dependency: Pantheon uses libunity for a lot of things, and it is not available in Debian. I do not understand how feasible it would be to package in Debian, but seeing how a lot of elementary software uses libunity, I think we should encourage the packaging of it, instead of a patching out of the dependency. Can you list which packages use it, and what benefit it would give for keeping it on debian? I successfully made libunity optional in the apps I packaged for Gentoo and am now running fine without it. Yeah, it is something that (I think) is optional in a lot of apps, but it is useful. libunity is what allows for the dock integration, like with the progress bars and the badges on the icons. I believe that the following apps use it: pantheon-files, switchboard, and slingshot. Geary also is able to use it for badges, but whether geary is built to support that on non-ubuntu distros is unknown, and doubtful, to me. Upon looking further, it also adds quicklists support, which pantheon-files uses to display the standard directories (Pictures, Music, et al) in its launcher. Cheers, Cameron El Wed, 5 de Feb 2014 a las 10:32 AM, Daniel Foré dan...@elementaryos.org escribió: Hey Raphael, That's not a bad idea even for just being able to package pantheon on Debian. I wonder if we can get someone with a Debian system to try installing Pantheon and see what issues they encounter Cheers, Daniel Foré elementaryos.org On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Raphael Isemann teempe...@gmail.com mailto:teempe...@gmail.com wrote: As we are on the topic: What bugs are left before one could run the whole elementary software stack on debian? I think the indicators where one major problem. Would be cool if someone (*looks at shnatsel*) could write up what is missing and we file some bugs with a debian tag. Mainly because it is asked quite often and it would be cool if we could redirect people to a bug-collection with some good bug-descriptions. Regarding all that topic about NSA and so on, you might want to check out this talk too: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5713_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312301130_-_to_protect_and_infect_part_2_-_jacob.html - Raphael 2014-02-05 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Sergey Glad you touched on security privacy concerns. I am new to the elementary dev community, but I am wondering if there has been any talk among the team in this regard. I was drawn to elementary for its simplicity and beauty but at the same time I have strong concerns about security and privacy, more so in light of the NSA revelations. In that regard, I am wondering if the team has discussed switching to debian as the base because it seems that ubuntu cares less about their users and privacy these days. Cheers, Tristan On 4 February 2014, at 23:35 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff wrote: Okay, it's there and back again! I've just arrived home, got only 1 hour of sleep on the plane, so take everything I say in the next 18 hours with a grain of salt. FOSDEM was tons of fun! I've kicked it off by donating to GNOME - Hey guys, I'm from elementary, we need you to keep up the good work on the libraries!, to Libre Graphics Magazine - Oh, you're from elementary? You guys have some great designers! (btw, great magazine, I definitely recommend it to everyone in here who's interested in design), to TOR just to get an awesome Snowden poster, and finally running into a guy from Jolla totally by accident, finding out the Jollla schedule for the day and then sieging him with questions - Y U NO ship to Russia?! and so on. I really look up to the ex-Nokia developers and designers who went on to found Jolla - Maemo was a-w-e-s-o-m-e and Sailfish is going to be even better! So I proceeded to attend their talk about libhybris and then their community roundtable (it seems my experience making distros and poking security has come in handy) and finally a community dinner, whee! Now I know everything I ever wanted about their phone, even got to play with one for a while. Also chatted with the developers (my N900 caused quite some nostalgia), plus I got a free hat with Jolla on it. Fanboy's dream come true, that! I kinda missed having an elementary tee, I guess I should have ordered one in advance. No instant props out of nowhere! Looking back, I don't think I ever did anything not worthy of a representative of the project (for once!), so hopefully next year... Too bad nobody else of ours made it there - or just never told me? I'd love to meet you guys in person. In your absence I had to hit up random Mozilla guys and discussing fun stuff like Rust and Serval. When I could find them, anyway :( And man, the talks! There were just so many of them! I'll be watching the ones I missed later on the recordings for sure. No way you can attend all the interesting ones in just two days. For the security- and privacy-concerned like me I especially recommend the NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote, it's great. Software archeology also, for the general audience. And What's cooking in GStreamer will be interesting to people who work with it. By the way, Brussels itself is very nice - amazing sculptures everywhere! A lot of lions among them, too. The royal square alone can be studied for hours. Definitely recommended. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Hi, In that regard, I am wondering if the team has discussed switching to debian as the base Yes, it has been discussed a few times, usually for other reasons though. It's not as simple as editing base=ubuntu to base=debian, and unfortunately, most of the people who ask us for it seem to think so. because it seems that ubuntu cares less about their users and privacy these days. We are using Ubuntu as a base, we don't ship ubuntu-desktop and honestly that's where most of the criticism to Ubuntu's lack of privacy concerns lies - the Amazon in the Dash thing. We don't have that, so I don't really see how switching to Debian would help us respect our users' privacy more. Cheers, David On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Tristan Petersen trista...@me.com wrote: Sergey Glad you touched on security privacy concerns. I am new to the elementary dev community, but I am wondering if there has been any talk among the team in this regard. I was drawn to elementary for its simplicity and beauty but at the same time I have strong concerns about security and privacy, more so in light of the NSA revelations. In that regard, I am wondering if the team has discussed switching to debian as the base because it seems that ubuntu cares less about their users and privacy these days. Cheers, Tristan On 4 February 2014, at 23:35 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff wrote: Okay, it's there and back again! I've just arrived home, got only 1 hour of sleep on the plane, so take everything I say in the next 18 hours with a grain of salt. FOSDEM was tons of fun! I've kicked it off by donating to GNOME - Hey guys, I'm from elementary, we need you to keep up the good work on the libraries!, to Libre Graphics Magazine - Oh, you're from elementary? You guys have some great designers! (btw, great magazine, I definitely recommend it to everyone in here who's interested in design), to TOR just to get an awesome Snowden poster, and finally running into a guy from Jolla totally by accident, finding out the Jollla schedule for the day and then sieging him with questions - Y U NO ship to Russia?! and so on. I really look up to the ex-Nokia developers and designers who went on to found Jolla - Maemo was a-w-e-s-o-m-e and Sailfish is going to be even better! So I proceeded to attend their talk about libhybris and then their community roundtable (it seems my experience making distros and poking security has come in handy) and finally a community dinner, whee! Now I know everything I ever wanted about their phone, even got to play with one for a while. Also chatted with the developers (my N900 caused quite some nostalgia), plus I got a free hat with Jolla on it. Fanboy's dream come true, that! I kinda missed having an elementary tee, I guess I should have ordered one in advance. No instant props out of nowhere! Looking back, I don't think I ever did anything not worthy of a representative of the project (for once!), so hopefully next year... Too bad nobody else of ours made it there - or just never told me? I'd love to meet you guys in person. In your absence I had to hit up random Mozilla guys and discussing fun stuff like Rust and Serval. When I could find them, anyway :( And man, the talks! There were just so many of them! I'll be watching the ones I missed later on the recordings for sure. No way you can attend all the interesting ones in just two days. For the security- and privacy-concerned like me I especially recommend the NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote, it's great. Software archeology also, for the general audience. And What's cooking in GStreamer will be interesting to people who work with it. By the way, Brussels itself is very nice - amazing sculptures everywhere! A lot of lions among them, too. The royal square alone can be studied for hours. Definitely recommended. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Hello David, Good morning! I can see how it wouldn't be so easy to switch, and I don't think it would be an easy affair either. Well the benefit from switching in my opinion would be at least switching to a more open and transparent code-review process. debian seems to be more community focused whereas ubuntu is more corporate driven. Would you say that's accurate? In my personal situation, I have decided that if it is not a completely decentralized, open and transparent process, it can be corrupted - either by governmental organizations or by profit motives. Have you seen prism-break.org ? After lengthy discussion, Ubuntu and all ubuntu based derivatives were deemed unfit for the site (by the philosophy of: if you don't trust the source, you can't trust anything downstream of it). Debian is listed as an option on their site as a strong and ethical distribution. All things considered, elementary is doing fantastic things and I am a strong supporter. Obviously I am not representative of most users, just that the icing on the cake for me would be simplicity, beauty AND security and privacy (of which I think debian offers a better option than ubuntu). Thanks for helping to build a great OS and I look forward to working with you on Photos (my first linux app btw). I love that I've been able to dive right into the code and pick it up so fast. Of course I still have a long way to go and quite a lot more to learn, but I'm loving vala and linux dev so far! Cheers, Tristan On 5 February 2014, at 08:42 , David Gomes wrote: Hi, In that regard, I am wondering if the team has discussed switching to debian as the base Yes, it has been discussed a few times, usually for other reasons though. It's not as simple as editing base=ubuntu to base=debian, and unfortunately, most of the people who ask us for it seem to think so. because it seems that ubuntu cares less about their users and privacy these days. We are using Ubuntu as a base, we don't ship ubuntu-desktop and honestly that's where most of the criticism to Ubuntu's lack of privacy concerns lies - the Amazon in the Dash thing. We don't have that, so I don't really see how switching to Debian would help us respect our users' privacy more. Cheers, David On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Tristan Petersen trista...@me.com wrote: Sergey Glad you touched on security privacy concerns. I am new to the elementary dev community, but I am wondering if there has been any talk among the team in this regard. I was drawn to elementary for its simplicity and beauty but at the same time I have strong concerns about security and privacy, more so in light of the NSA revelations. In that regard, I am wondering if the team has discussed switching to debian as the base because it seems that ubuntu cares less about their users and privacy these days. Cheers, Tristan On 4 February 2014, at 23:35 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff wrote: Okay, it's there and back again! I've just arrived home, got only 1 hour of sleep on the plane, so take everything I say in the next 18 hours with a grain of salt. FOSDEM was tons of fun! I've kicked it off by donating to GNOME - Hey guys, I'm from elementary, we need you to keep up the good work on the libraries!, to Libre Graphics Magazine - Oh, you're from elementary? You guys have some great designers! (btw, great magazine, I definitely recommend it to everyone in here who's interested in design), to TOR just to get an awesome Snowden poster, and finally running into a guy from Jolla totally by accident, finding out the Jollla schedule for the day and then sieging him with questions - Y U NO ship to Russia?! and so on. I really look up to the ex-Nokia developers and designers who went on to found Jolla - Maemo was a-w-e-s-o-m-e and Sailfish is going to be even better! So I proceeded to attend their talk about libhybris and then their community roundtable (it seems my experience making distros and poking security has come in handy) and finally a community dinner, whee! Now I know everything I ever wanted about their phone, even got to play with one for a while. Also chatted with the developers (my N900 caused quite some nostalgia), plus I got a free hat with Jolla on it. Fanboy's dream come true, that! I kinda missed having an elementary tee, I guess I should have ordered one in advance. No instant props out of nowhere! Looking back, I don't think I ever did anything not worthy of a representative of the project (for once!), so hopefully next year... Too bad nobody else of ours made it there - or just never told me? I'd love to meet you guys in person. In your absence I had to hit up random Mozilla guys and discussing fun stuff like Rust and Serval. When I could find them, anyway :( And man, the talks! There were just so many of them! I'll be watching the ones I missed later on the
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
As we are on the topic: What bugs are left before one could run the whole elementary software stack on debian? I think the indicators where one major problem. Would be cool if someone (*looks at shnatsel*) could write up what is missing and we file some bugs with a debian tag. Mainly because it is asked quite often and it would be cool if we could redirect people to a bug-collection with some good bug-descriptions. Regarding all that topic about NSA and so on, you might want to check out this talk too: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5713_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312301130_-_to_protect_and_infect_part_2_-_jacob.html - Raphael 2014-02-05 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Sergey I believe it. Thanks for the heads-up on the keynote, please let me know when it's uploaded. Cheers, Tristan On 5 February 2014, at 10:43 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff wrote: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Debian's installer is really really bad. Fixing that or porting ubiquity would be a feat. On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Tristan Petersen trista...@me.com wrote: Sergey I believe it. Thanks for the heads-up on the keynote, please let me know when it's uploaded. Cheers, Tristan On 5 February 2014, at 10:43 , Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff wrote: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Cody Garver -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Hey Raphael, That's not a bad idea even for just being able to package pantheon on Debian. I wonder if we can get someone with a Debian system to try installing Pantheon and see what issues they encounter Cheers, Daniel Foré elementaryos.org On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Raphael Isemann teempe...@gmail.com wrote: As we are on the topic: What bugs are left before one could run the whole elementary software stack on debian? I think the indicators where one major problem. Would be cool if someone (*looks at shnatsel*) could write up what is missing and we file some bugs with a debian tag. Mainly because it is asked quite often and it would be cool if we could redirect people to a bug-collection with some good bug-descriptions. Regarding all that topic about NSA and so on, you might want to check out this talk too: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5713_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312301130_-_to_protect_and_infect_part_2_-_jacob.html - Raphael 2014-02-05 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp-- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
On 02/05/2014 07:32 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: That's not a bad idea even for just being able to package pantheon on Debian. I wonder if we can get someone with a Debian system to try installing Pantheon and see what issues they encounter Packaging Pantheon isn't the big problem as far as I can see (from my experience in packaging it for Gentoo Linux). The main problem with pantheon is it's dependency on some Ubuntu specific patches for Gnome libraries. For example, the user-specific background feature of the pantheon-greeter depends on a patched version of accountsservice and gnome-settings-daemon to work (these are the hard parts to figure out). For this reason I'm now also trying to maintain these Gnome packages with Ubuntu patches in my repository. Furthermore the dependency of Gnome (and core components like gnome-settings-daemon) on systemd causes some issues (media-keys not working proberly, logoff/shutdown/reboot not working, etc.). So aside from being able to install Pantheon on debian, I see most issues in the system integration and the full user experience (including installer etc.) as the main problem. Kind regards, Pim Vullers On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Raphael Isemann teempe...@gmail.com mailto:teempe...@gmail.com wrote: As we are on the topic: What bugs are left before one could run the whole elementary software stack on debian? I think the indicators where one major problem. Would be cool if someone (*looks at shnatsel*) could write up what is missing and we file some bugs with a debian tag. Mainly because it is asked quite often and it would be cool if we could redirect people to a bug-collection with some good bug-descriptions. Regarding all that topic about NSA and so on, you might want to check out this talk too: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5713_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312301130_-_to_protect_and_infect_part_2_-_jacob.html - Raphael 2014-02-05 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
There are a few issues (these are all relevant to Sid or Jessie, and not necessarily Wheezy): * systemd dependency: gnome[-settings-daemon] recently started to depend on systemd (in Debian, upstream still has CK, etcetera code as an option), and elementary's dependence on GNOME and gnome session has led to an inheritance of this dependency. So the user must switch to a non-default init, or install a patched gnome-settings-daemon, or use the half working systemd-shim package. * libunity9 dependency: Pantheon uses libunity for a lot of things, and it is not available in Debian. I do not understand how feasible it would be to package in Debian, but seeing how a lot of elementary software uses libunity, I think we should encourage the packaging of it, instead of a patching out of the dependency. * gtk theming: gtk has some patches in Ubuntu, so you can not get a consistent experience between Ubuntu and Debian gtk. Sid does not have GTK+ 3.10, and the version (3.10) in experimental seems to break a lot of things. It looks like the Debian GNOME team is looking to move to GNOME 3.12 (when it is released) for Jessie, but that has yet to happen. * indicators(!) : they all need to be packaged for Debian. Not too hard, but a little work. Furthermore, they need to be started manually (they are no longer dbus activated services). Unity starts them through Upstart jobs, but one can start them via systemd.service's, through gnome-session (probably), with kdestart, or with Cerbere (I think). - Using Upstart as a session init will be problematic for distros without Upstart packaged or distros with an older or poor version of Upstart. Because Upstart can be run as a session init without Upstart being PID 1, there is no problem for distros that use sysvinit, BSD init, OpenRC, or systemd as the system init, but have Upstart packaged in the repositories. Debian has good support for Upstart in Sid, but it is unknown how well Upstart will be maintained if the debian ctte decides for a systemd default. - Using systemd as a session init to start the indicators is problematic for distros that do not use systemd as the default init. For systemd to function as a session init, it forces the system init to be systemd as well. If the debian ctte decides to use systemd as the default init, then this option would be a better idea (although on Gentoo or, more importantly, Ubuntu there is going to be different behaviour). - Using gnome-session (or kdestart, but that is not really an option) is problematic because GNOME (and KDE) are moving towards using systemd as a session init, and gnome-session may become unmaintained (or poorly maintained) in the future. - Cerbere could probably get the job done, but it is weak, and eventually we may want to leverage Upstart or systemd as a session init. essentially, indicators need to be started by something. I believe it would be best to use Cerbere or gnome-session for now, but switch to using Upstart as an advanced session init if Debian chooses it as the default init, or systemd if there are no concerns about distros that do not use systemd as PID 1 (currently, Gentoo, Debian, and Slackware). I personally have concerns, but it is up to you guys to decide. Hope this helps, Cameron Norman El Wed, 5 de Feb 2014 a las 10:32 AM, Daniel Foré dan...@elementaryos.org escribió: Hey Raphael, That's not a bad idea even for just being able to package pantheon on Debian. I wonder if we can get someone with a Debian system to try installing Pantheon and see what issues they encounter Cheers, Daniel Foré elementaryos.org On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Raphael Isemann teempe...@gmail.com wrote: As we are on the topic: What bugs are left before one could run the whole elementary software stack on debian? I think the indicators where one major problem. Would be cool if someone (*looks at shnatsel*) could write up what is missing and we file some bugs with a debian tag. Mainly because it is asked quite often and it would be cool if we could redirect people to a bug-collection with some good bug-descriptions. Regarding all that topic about NSA and so on, you might want to check out this talk too: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5713_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312301130_-_to_protect_and_infect_part_2_-_jacob.html - Raphael 2014-02-05 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list:
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary, ubuntu, and debian
Sounds like a bug for me. As we are anyway need a better way of getting the wallpaper and it's properties, we can also fix that. The only thing is that i'm not sure if it's still valid. I think arch doesn't ship a patched accountservice/gnome-settings-daemon and i remember i have a login-wallpaper on my arch-installation. Feel free to file a bug and link to this mail in the archive :) - Raphael 2014-02-05 Pim Vullers p...@vullersmail.nl: On 02/05/2014 07:32 PM, Daniel Foré wrote: That's not a bad idea even for just being able to package pantheon on Debian. I wonder if we can get someone with a Debian system to try installing Pantheon and see what issues they encounter Packaging Pantheon isn't the big problem as far as I can see (from my experience in packaging it for Gentoo Linux). The main problem with pantheon is it's dependency on some Ubuntu specific patches for Gnome libraries. For example, the user-specific background feature of the pantheon-greeter depends on a patched version of accountsservice and gnome-settings-daemon to work (these are the hard parts to figure out). For this reason I'm now also trying to maintain these Gnome packages with Ubuntu patches in my repository. Furthermore the dependency of Gnome (and core components like gnome-settings-daemon) on systemd causes some issues (media-keys not working proberly, logoff/shutdown/reboot not working, etc.). So aside from being able to install Pantheon on debian, I see most issues in the system integration and the full user experience (including installer etc.) as the main problem. Kind regards, Pim Vullers On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Raphael Isemann teempe...@gmail.com mailto:teempe...@gmail.com wrote: As we are on the topic: What bugs are left before one could run the whole elementary software stack on debian? I think the indicators where one major problem. Would be cool if someone (*looks at shnatsel*) could write up what is missing and we file some bugs with a debian tag. Mainly because it is asked quite often and it would be cool if we could redirect people to a bug-collection with some good bug-descriptions. Regarding all that topic about NSA and so on, you might want to check out this talk too: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5713_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312301130_-_to_protect_and_infect_part_2_-_jacob.html - Raphael 2014-02-05 Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org: Tristan, it's not that simple and fact is, Debian or even the upstream projects are unlikely to be NSA-proof. You should really watch the recording of NSA operation ORCHESTRA keynote from FOSDEM as soon as it's uploaded. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
