Re: [O] org-drill vocabulary and question about properties

[Phillip Lord]

"Gerhard Butscher"  writes:

> Hello, I intend to use org-drill for learning vocabulary
> (german-spanish). Does anybody know a repository of such a vocabulary?
>  
> As far as I know the inner workings of org-drill are placed in the
> :PROPERTIES: section of the item. When I use :DRILL_CARD_TYPE:
> twosided then the item gets questioned some time in german and some
> time in spanish. But the PROPERTIES are still only once there. If I
> want to track the learning in both directions separately, I need to
> make two items for one word, once german-spanish and once
> spanish-german. Am I right?


Yes, the properties are shared.

For language learning, I use multi-cloze cards with
"hide1_firstmore". So:

It: [Ciao]
En: [Hello/Goodbye]

So you learn in both directions, but see the foreign language phrase
more often (assuming you are not Italian, of course).

My experience is you are better of making your own vocabulary -- since
you need to use org-drill learning to reinforce other forms of learning,
and you spend more time learning the vocab than you will writing it. The
only bits that I automate are the verb tables.

Phil

Re: [O] Bug: org-drill-entry-empty-p should use outline-forward-same-level and not outline-next-heading [9.1.6 (9.1.6-48-gfe7619-elpaplus @ /Users/christoffer/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180212/)

[Phillip Lord]

Indeed, org-drill-entry-empty-p returns t and considers this entry
empty. But why is this wrong? How are you using this kind of entry? Do
you put the question in the title?

BTW, I am maintaining org-drill at:

https://gitlab.com/phillord/org-drill/

now, so you might be better raising issues there.

Phil

a...@xkqr.org (Christoffer Stjernlöf) writes:

> Remember to cover the basics, that is, what you expected to happen and
> what in fact did happen.  You don't know how to make a good report?  See
>
>  https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback
>
> Your bug report will be posted to the Org mailing list.
> 
>
> I have noticed that some of my drill entries are skipped by org-drill,
> and only
> recently took the time to try to troubleshoot why – apparently
> org-drill-entry-empty-p returns t for my entries, because they look like
> the
> following:
>
> -
> * Entry question? :drill:
> SCHEDULED: <2019-04-05 Fri>
> :PROPERTIES:
> ...
> :END:
>
> ** The Answer
>
> Some text
> 
>
> Since org-drill-entry-empty-p only looks from the end of the
> metadata/properties
> and until outline-next-heading, it will consider this drill entry empty
> – even
> though this is not at all my intention. This would be fixed by replacing
> (outline-next-heading) with (outline-forward-same-level 1) in
> org-entry-empty-p.
> I'm not sure whether this has any other adverse effect, but I can't see
> how it
> would make things worse, at least.
>
> Emacs  : GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.6.0, Carbon
> Version 158 AppKit 1671.5)
>  of 2019-06-15
> Package: Org mode version 9.1.6 (9.1.6-48-gfe7619-elpaplus @
> /Users/christoffer/.emacs.d/elpa/org-plus-contrib-20180212/)
>

-- 
Phillip Lord,   Phone: +44 (0) 191 208 7827
Biology, Medicine, ComputingEmail: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk
School of Computing,
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
Room 5.012 Urban Sciences Building, skype: russet_apples
Newcastle University,   twitter: phillord
NE4 5TG

Re: [O] org-drill futures

[Phillip Lord]

phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou  writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>>
>>> I've launched an fork of org-drill. I have tried to reach Paul Sexton,
>>> the original author, and had some feedback (he was happy for my take
>>> over), but not managed to get the repository moved.
>>>
>>> https://gitlab.com/phillord/org-drill/
>>>
>>> I'd like to have this be the version that ends up in contrib. Can anyone
>>> tell me how to achieve this?
>>
>> I would suggest the opposite: move it to GNU ELPA, for example, so we
>> can remove it from contrib.
>>
>> WDYT?
>
>
> Yes, I am quite happy with that also -- it would save the effort of
> syncing it. It would have to be MELPA though, because I don't think we
> have papers (I can check). This does have the disadvantage of requiring
> people to update their config/installed packages, but it's probably
> okay.
>
> I'd plan to incorporate org-learn into org-drill -- I suspect everyone
> using org-learn is using it via org-drill, so winding it in makes sense,
> so I'd need to remove both.
>
> I'll see how MELPA are with adding my fork there; if they are happy,
> once that it up and running it could be pulled from contrib.



org-drill is up on MELPA now. It's been cleaned up a lot, and a few bugs
fixed. And, I have no doubt, more new ones introduced, as I have touched
about half of the lines of code.

So, I think it can come out of contrib now, and the website updated. I
have also wound in org-learn.el. How many users that on its own I do not
know, so, it's hard to know whether it needs to remain or not;
regardless, org-drill is no longer a reason for keeping it.

Cheers

Phil

Re: [O] org-drill futures

[Phillip Lord]

Stig Brautaset  writes:

>>> I would suggest the opposite: move it to GNU ELPA, for example, so we
>>> can remove it from contrib.
>>
>> Yes, I am quite happy with that also -- it would save the effort of
>> syncing it. It would have to be MELPA though, because I don't think we
>> have papers (I can check). This does have the disadvantage of requiring
>> people to update their config/installed packages, but it's probably
>> okay.
>
> I would love to see org-drill available in MELPA. It's the most
> important package I use from contrib. Moving it to MELPA means I'm
> closer to being able to live with the version of Org that ships with
> Emacs, and would not have to install org-plus-contrib.
>
> To that end I've created a branch[1] for adding your fork to MELPA.
> Based on your previous messages in this thread, I assume I have your
> permission to submit a PR? Or is there a good reason to wait with this
> for the moment?

I already did this.

https://github.com/melpa/melpa/pull/6207

They may or may not want to accept this at the moment; org-drill falls
short of their coding standards, and it will take a while to fix.

On the flip side, I have automated GUI testing working now which is
helping with the refactoring. It's also rather cute and I've not seen it
done with Emacs before. Have a look if you are interested!

Phil

Re: [O] org-drill futures

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

> Hello,
>
> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>
>> I've launched an fork of org-drill. I have tried to reach Paul Sexton,
>> the original author, and had some feedback (he was happy for my take
>> over), but not managed to get the repository moved.
>>
>> https://gitlab.com/phillord/org-drill/
>>
>> I'd like to have this be the version that ends up in contrib. Can anyone
>> tell me how to achieve this?
>
> I would suggest the opposite: move it to GNU ELPA, for example, so we
> can remove it from contrib.
>
> WDYT?


Yes, I am quite happy with that also -- it would save the effort of
syncing it. It would have to be MELPA though, because I don't think we
have papers (I can check). This does have the disadvantage of requiring
people to update their config/installed packages, but it's probably
okay.

I'd plan to incorporate org-learn into org-drill -- I suspect everyone
using org-learn is using it via org-drill, so winding it in makes sense,
so I'd need to remove both.

I'll see how MELPA are with adding my fork there; if they are happy,
once that it up and running it could be pulled from contrib.

Phil

Re: [O] org-drill futures

[Phillip Lord]

I've launched an fork of org-drill. I have tried to reach Paul Sexton,
the original author, and had some feedback (he was happy for my take
over), but not managed to get the repository moved.

https://gitlab.com/phillord/org-drill/

I'd like to have this be the version that ends up in contrib. Can anyone
tell me how to achieve this?

Phil


phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

> I've been using org-drill a lot recently. I've already added one feature
> that I consider vital for this kind of thing (answering by typing!) and
> would like to add another (some form of Leitner box learning).
>
> But, it seems sensible to fix the maintainership first. Are any of the
> forks out there active at the moment? If not, I'd be willing to take
> over the maintainership for a while. Is anyone else interested? Does
> anyone object?
>
> Phil

[O] Graphing upcoming scheduled items

[Phillip Lord]

Is there a way to get a list of the number of upcoming scheduled items?
I was looking for a sparse list and to an arbitrary time in the
future, and not specifically over my agenda files.

Something like:


01-04-201910
03-04-201914
...
01-08-20196
...
01-02-20204


I might write it myself, but if it's there already

Phil

[O] org-drill futures

[Phillip Lord]

I've been using org-drill a lot recently. I've already added one feature
that I consider vital for this kind of thing (answering by typing!) and
would like to add another (some form of Leitner box learning).

But, it seems sensible to fix the maintainership first. Are any of the
forks out there active at the moment? If not, I'd be willing to take
over the maintainership for a while. Is anyone else interested? Does
anyone object?

Phil

Re: [O] [OT] org-mode bindings in markdown-mode?

[Phillip Lord]

Marcin Borkowski  writes:

> On 2018-04-13, at 15:14, Matt Price  wrote:
>
>> Hi eveyrone,
>>
>> I'm using markdown more and more in collaborative projects (sigh). I am
>> getting used to the syntax but it drives me crazy not to be able to edit
>> document structure with commands like C-return,, M-return, etc.  Does
>> anyone have a solution for this that works with recent versions of org? I'm
>> not up to date on the current status of various projects to extend org
>> bindings outside of org.
>
> Just wondering whether the lentic mode
> (https://github.com/phillord/lentic) with an org->md transformation
> could help.  (I haven't yet used lentic, so I might be competely wrong.)
>
> I'm CC'ing Phillip, who is the right person to comment on this idea.


It's an interesting idea, actually, and it would be a general way of
enabling text markup languages. You'd always edit in org-mode.

However, I think the problem would be writing the implementation. lentic
cannot really cope with complex text markups since it has to redo the
transformation often (every keypress). So the transformation rules need
to be really simple.

I haven't done a lentic transform for markdown yet, although I ought
to. The main problem is that the start of code sections is implicit,
which makes it a PITA.

Phil

Re: [O] [RFC] Moving "manual.org" into core

[Phillip Lord]

Bastien  writes:

>> For the record, and as a first feedback, I totally disagree with the
>> FUD (".org flexibility will bring us new problems", seriously)
>> spread about the Org manual.
>
> Testing the .texi exporter (and maybe .html and .pdf) against this big
> file will be interesting.
>
> Testing the process of running "make pdf" while emacs will in charge
> of producing a PDF file (.org => .texi => .pdf) will be interesting,
> and potentially more error-prone than the current .texi=>.pdf process.
>
> But again, that's fine.

I think it will slow the build. Currently, the texi gets compiled in
parallel with the C, while having Emacs build it will shunt it till the
very end (after byte-compilation) where there is nothing to parallelize
(except for the tests).

Of course, if it's only org.org (or whatever) and everything else is
texi, then most of the manual would build earlier. If everything were
org, I think it would add about a minute to a 5 or 6 minute
build. Probably, by the time all of the manuals are in org-mode,
machines will be significantly faster, there will be emacs-free org mode
converter, or we will have hit the heat death of the universe. Perhaps
it's not a problem.

Phil

Re: [O] [RFC] Dog food, anyone?

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou <m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>
>> I was wondering the other way around. Can org produce .texi that
>> could be part of a larger existing texinfo. So, something that can be
>> @include'd.
>
> I don't see why it couldn't. Do you have any difficulty in mind?


Oh, might even be trivial things. I mean, emacs.texi contains a "title"
statement, but none of its include files do. Also, cross references, I
believe have to be unique within a file and all include files.

Phil

Re: [O] [RFC] Dog food, anyone?

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

>> Good stuff!
>>
>> My question about this and your experiences with ox-texinfo, is would it
>> be possible to integrate this into a workflow where a manual was
>> converted piece-meal.
>>
>> So, if a texinfo manual was multi-part (like the Emacs manual for
>> instance), it could be converted one file at a time, rather than having
>> to do the whole lot.
>
> You can use #+INCLUDE keywords for that.


I was wondering the other way around. Can org produce .texi that
could be part of a larger existing texinfo. So, something that can be
@include'd.

Phil

Re: [O] [RFC] Dog food, anyone?

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:

> Hello,
>
> The task started by Thomas S. Dye a couple years ago is now complete.
> The "manual.org" file in "contrib/" directory is an up-to-date,
> sometimes enhanced, version of the Org manual. Org can now eat its own
> dog food.
>
> During the process, I had to re-organize some parts of the manual (e.g.,
> "Working with source code" section, the concept index...) and improve
> the "texinfo" export back-end, which was not up to the task when Thomas
> started it.


Good stuff!

My question about this and your experiences with ox-texinfo, is would it
be possible to integrate this into a workflow where a manual was
converted piece-meal.

So, if a texinfo manual was multi-part (like the Emacs manual for
instance), it could be converted one file at a time, rather than having
to do the whole lot.

Phil

Re: [O] org mode moves to GNU emacs core

[Phillip Lord]

Tim Cross  writes:

>> I don't see how that would possible once it is integrated in GNU emacs
>> core, there will be no separate makefile or anything of that sort, but
>> maybe I am missing something.
>>
>
> There is going to have to be a way for people to maintain and build org
> independently. When you are maintaining Emacs, you don't want to have to
> re-build the whole system every time you create a change. What you tend
> to find is there are multiple Makefiles with a top level Emacs makefile
> which calls sub-level makefiles as part of the build. It may be
> necessary to modify configure or add a new option to build outside the
> emacs tree, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Emacs builds all its lisp with a single Makefile, but the build is
incremental. So the rebuild is very quick. To be honest, even if you
modify the C layer, the dump is pretty fast.


> I should emphasise that while I agree org would be good as part of
> Emacs' core, I don't think this should occur until org change velocity
> has stabilised to a point where change velocity is lower than it is
> now. At that point, there will be much less need to be running the most
> recent snapshot.
>
> Maybe my experience is very different. However, I found a lot more
> motivation to go from org 7.x to 8.x than I did from 8.x to 9.x. In
> fact, the only visible changes in 9.x I've had to deal with have been
> about compatibility changes and minor bugs I've had to update
> for/fix. I could still be running 8.x. The only reason I've updated to
> 9.x is to avoid issues with some of the contrib packages that have/may
> have been updated to work with 9.x


This makes the assumption that all of org moves at the same speed. It
seems to me that the things currently in contrib still move fairly fast.

Phil

Re: [O] org mode moves to GNU emacs core

[Phillip Lord]

Tim Cross  writes:

> Just to throw my 2 cents in.
>
> While I can understand the benefits of being able to easily install the
> latest org package via elpa, I think there are some significant benefits
> to org being a part of core Emacs.
>
> I currently find three issues with the current situation which may be
> somewhat resolved if org was part of core emacs.
>
> 1. Problems with mixed versions. Currently, Emacs has org 8.x included
> in the distribution. This is despite 9.x being out before the release of
> 25.2. Something needs to be done to improve coordination and perhaps if
> it was part of the core, this would be more likely. At any rate, the
> current situation means you need to be very careful to ensure no org
> feature is loaded before the ELPA package is loaded or you will get odd
> behaviour and the symbol's value is void errors. 


I've argued on emacs-devel about this. The problem here is that the
distributed org-mode remains in the load path, so you are totally
dependent on load path shadowing to ensure the right package gets
loaded. This doesn't happen with ELPA packages since only the latest
gets added to the load path.

My solution to this would be to have Emacs use package.el to load
files in core as well as elsewhere. Then, when you installed org from
ELPA, package.el would remove the core installed files from the
load-path (or rather never add them). You'd need to restart Emacs after
installation, but otherwise the problem goes away.

Everybody else thought this was a bad idea!

Phil

Re: [O] org mode moves to GNU emacs core

[Phillip Lord]

Bastien Guerry <b...@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi Philip,
>
> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>
>> I presume you do see this as an advantage? The issue is, surely,
>> that it's too much of a PITA for the advantage that you gain?
>
> Well, it's not really about PITA-or-not-PITA, it's just that I want
> org-mode to be the default mode for some files in Emacs, and having
> org-mode in Emacs' core is the most simple way to go for this.
>
> Maintainers of projects like Gnus or CEDET don't want their code to
> live outside of Emacs repo neither, so I guess simplicity is a big
> win.


Yes, it would appear that way. But, at the moment, to be distributed
with Emacs you have to be in the emacs repo. We've discussed this
before, I know, but these two things are not an absolute
necessity. Having the Emacs build populate it's source tree with
packages is also possible.

Phil

Re: [O] org mode moves to GNU emacs core

[Phillip Lord]

Bastien  writes:

> Hi Uwe,
>
> Uwe Brauer  writes:
>
>> I am not sure whether I understand that discussion in emacs dev
>> correctly. Will orgmode be moved into the GNU emacs try as it was done
>> with gnus?
>
> for the record, I would be in favor of this.  Why?
>
> - Less installation headaches
> - Less maintainance and backward-compatibility headaches
> - Possibility of having etc/TODO in Emacs using org-mode
> - Attracting Org developers/contributors to Emacs repo
>
> As a maintainer, I don't see any advantage of having Org
> maintained as an ELPA package.


The advantage should be that it allows an independent upgrade cycle for
org from the long cycle of Emacs. I presume you do see this as an
advantage? The issue is, surely, that it's too much of a PITA for the
advantage that you gain?

If that's true, I'm interested in which bits are a PITA. Is it
fundementally because of ELPA? That is, the latest version of org-mode
has to support more than one version of Emacs? Or, is it having two
version repos, with all the merging?

Phil

Re: [O] Bug: Export Error with author [9.0.6 (9.0.6-elpaplus @ /home/phillord/.emacs.d/elpa/25.2/org-plus-contrib-20170502/)]

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou <m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>
>> I am having problems with exporting org files with either author or
>> titles set. I have found this with ox-reveal, ox-s5 and ox-deck.
>
> [...]
>
>> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument listp #("Phillip Lord" 0 
>> 12 (:parent (#1
>
> This is a frequent bug report. It comes from a mixed Org installation.


Ah, yes, you are right. Sorry for the noise.

Phil

[O] Bug: Export Error with author [9.0.6 (9.0.6-elpaplus @ /home/phillord/.emacs.d/elpa/25.2/org-plus-contrib-20170502/)]

[Phillip Lord]

Remember to cover the basics, that is, what you expected to happen and
what in fact did happen.  You don't know how to make a good report?  See

 http://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback

Your bug report will be posted to the Org mailing list.



I am having problems with exporting org files with either author or
titles set. I have found this with ox-reveal, ox-s5 and ox-deck.


My org-file looks as follows:

#+TITLE: This is the title of the document
#+AUTHOR: Phillip Lord


* Slide One

Here is a slide


* Slide Two

Here is another slide



And the backtrace as follows (from ox-reveal):


Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument listp #("Phillip Lord" 0 12 
(:parent (#1
  org-element-set-contents(#("Phillip Lord" 0 12 (:parent (#0
  apply(org-element-set-contents #("Phillip Lord" 0 12 (:parent (#0))) nil)
  #[257 
"\211\305\306\307#\310\311\211:\204\312\202\"\n@9\203!\nAA\202\"\n)\"\210\313\314
\211:\2043\312\202@\n@9\203?\nAA\202@\n)#\210\315\211 
\n;\203V\316\317\n#\202\\\320\nA@\"*\211;\203n\321\n\312\f$\202z\nA\322\nA@\f#\240\210\n+\210
 AA@\240\210@\240*\207" [new old element property value 
replace-regexp-in-string "\n" " " mapc #[(blob) "\305 
\211;\203\306\f\307\n$\202 \fA\310\fA@\n#\240\210\f+\207" [blob old value 
property element :parent org-add-props nil plist-put] 6] nil apply 
org-element-set-contents :parent get-text-property 0 plist-get org-add-props 
plist-put] 7 "\n\n(fn S)"](#("Phillip Lord" 0 12 (:parent (#0
  #[257 
"\211\211:\204\211;\205\311\262\202\211@9\205\211@\262
?\206\251\301\203-
\312\301\313\">\206\251\211\2049\314\310\242\"\202\251\211\315=\203]\314\310\242\211:\204N\316\262\202Y\211@9\203Y\211AA\262\"\202\251\211\304>\203~\300!\211\203}\302\203v\317\320\"\210\202}\307\307\242B\240\210\210\306\321=\203\271
;\204\271\211\236A\211\203\270\211@\310\242\211;\203\247\322\323#\266\202\202\257\312A@\"\266\202!\210A\266\202\202\216\210\303\203Q\306\321=\203Q\324!\325=\203Q\211\203P\211@\211@A\211;\203\347\322\323#\266\202\202\357\312A@\"\266\202\211\203G
\235\2030
\235\203!\326!\211\203
\211@\310\242A!\210\310\242@!\210A\266\202\202
\210\202G\310\242A!\210\310\242@!\210\202G
\235\203B\314\310\242\326!\"\210\202G\310\242!\210\266
A\266\202\202\315\210\211\305>\206\251
\211:\204c\316\262\202n\211@9\203n\211AA\262?\206\251\306\327=\203\200\211>?\206\251\306\330=\203\216\324!\331=\206\251\314\310\242\211:\204\235\316\262\202\250\211@9\203\250\211AA\262\"\207"
 [#[257 
"\211\305\306\307#\310\311\211:\204\312\202\"\n@9\203!\nAA\202\"\n)\"\210\313\314
   \211:\2043\312\202@\n@9\203?\nAA\202@\n)#\210\315\211 
\n;\203V\316\317\n#\202\\\320\nA@\"*\211;\203n\321\n\312\f$\202z\nA\322\nA@\f#\240\210\n+\210
 AA@\240\210@\240*\207" [new old element property value 
replace-regexp-in-string "\n" " " mapc #[(blob) "\305 
\211;\203\306\f\307\n$\202 \fA\310\fA@\n#\240\210\f+\207" [blob old value 
property element :parent org-add-props nil plist-put] 6] nil apply 
org-element-set-contents :parent get-text-property 0 plist-get org-add-props 
plist-put] 7 "\n\n(fn S)"] nil nil nil (plain-text) nil objects (nil) (#0) 
plain-text plist-get :ignore-list mapc org-data nil throw :--map-first-match 
objects get-text-property 0 org-element-class element reverse greater-elements 
elements object org-element-secondary-value-alist 
org-element--parsed-properties-alist org-element-dual-keywords 
org-element-multiple-keywords org-element-greater-elements] 11 "\n\n(fn 
--DATA)"](#("Phillip Lord" 0 12 (:parent (#0
  mapc(#[257 
"\211\211:\204\211;\205\311\262\202\211@9\205\211@\262
?\206\251\301\203-
\312\301\313\">\206\251\211\2049\314\310\242\"\202\251\211\315=\203]\314\310\242\211:\204N\316\262\202Y\211@9\203Y\211AA\262\"\202\251\211\304>\203~\300!\211\203}\302\203v\317\320\"\210\202}\307\307\242B\240\210\210\306\321=\203\271
;\204\271\211\236A\211\203\270\211@\310\242\211;\203\247\322\323#\266\202\202\257\312A@\"\266\202!\210A\266\202\202\216\210\303\203Q\306\321=\203Q\324!\325=\203Q\211\203P\211@\211@A\211;\203\347\322\323#\266\202\202\357\312A@\"\266\202\211\203G
\235\2030
\235\203!\326!\211\203
\211@\310\242A!\210\310\242@!\210A\266\202\202
\210\202G\310\242A!\210\310\242@!\210\202G
\235\203B\314\310\242\326!\"\210\202G\310\242!\210\266
A\266\202\202\315\210\211\305>\206\251
\211:\204c\316\262\202n\211@9\203n\211AA\262?\206\251\306\327=\203\200\211>?\206\251\306\330=\203\216\324!\331=\206\251\314\310\242\211:\204\235\316\262\202\250\211@9\203\250\211AA\262\"\207"
 [#[257 
"\211\305\

Re: [O] stable org-plus-contrib

[Phillip Lord]

Kaushal Modi <kaushal.m...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, May 11, 2017, 8:20 AM Phillip Lord <phillip.l...@russet.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Really? That's rather confusing. So, it means that a bug here is a bug
>> in a release version?
>>
>
> Well, a bug's not a bug till it is seen :)
>
> What is the buggy behavior that you find in the Elpa version?

I'm afraid that I didn't note them carefully enough to report. I just
assumed I was on a unstable version. I can cope with being on an
something unstable in general, but don't really have the time to do this
for org also.


> Simply put, the Melpa version has the latest weekly cut from the maint
> branch (minus the contrib packages), the org Elpa version is the same but
> with contrib packages. So those are stable versions. If one finds a bug in
> those, then they get fixed when reported.

Okay, so the last point release with bug fixes? It should be version
9.0 essentially?


> New big features get added to the master (devel) branch.
>
> That said, I have been using the master branch as my daily driver for over
> a year. As of now I don't see any bug that affects my workflow.

Well, you'd probably fix it if there was:-)

Phil

Re: [O] stable org-plus-contrib

[Phillip Lord]

Michael Alan Dorman <mdor...@jaunder.io> writes:

> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>> I would like to use some of the packages in org-plus-contrib. So, I've
>> added orgmode's ELPA archive. But I find being on the bleeding edge a
>> little buggy.
>>
>> As far as I can see, there is no "stable" ELPA package archive, so I
>> have to fall back installation from git. This seems somewhat backward to
>> me; installing stable with git, an unstable from package.el.
>>
>> Is there any way of getting stable Org that I am missing?
>
> FWIW, the versions in the org ELPA repository, though date-versioned,
> appear to only be generated for tagged versions.


Really? That's rather confusing. So, it means that a bug here is a bug
in a release version?

Phil

[O] stable org-plus-contrib

[Phillip Lord]

I would like to use some of the packages in org-plus-contrib. So, I've
added orgmode's ELPA archive. But I find being on the bleeding edge a
little buggy.

As far as I can see, there is no "stable" ELPA package archive, so I
have to fall back installation from git. This seems somewhat backward to
me; installing stable with git, an unstable from package.el.

Is there any way of getting stable Org that I am missing?

Phil

Re: [O] Sync up the org in emacs master to org maint branch?

[Phillip Lord]

John Wiegley <jwieg...@gmail.com> writes:

>>>>>> "KM" == Kaushal Modi <kaushal.m...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> KM> If we are able the release the new packaging method in emacs 26.x, then we
> KM> can remove org from emacs master completely, but if not, then at least as
> KM> backup we have a newer org version to go out with that release.
>
> For Emacs 26, I intend the new ELPA process to be in place, whereby "default"
> packages can be developed separately, and declare a way to get slip-streamed
> into the release tarball so users are unaware of the separate nature of their
> development.
>
> The CEDET developers have agreed to support this, and it sounds like you are
> willing to as well. If Lars is game, I'd like for Gnus to be third major
> package we do this for initially. That will reduce considerably the number of
> external files we track in Emacs.git.
>
> The precise technical details have yet to be worked out, but it shouldn't be
> too difficult. Phillip Lord has already began advance work on alternatives,
> and I've received offers of help from others to work on this new process.
>
> I think now is a good time to begin. The first step is to solidify what is
> meant by "tarball EPLA", and the means of slip-streaming a package's contents.
> This will require at least two bits:
>
>   - Some form of declaration to indicate how external files should appear in
> the tarball. In order for the first version of this scheme to be as low
> impact as possible, this should probably be done with a sexp in a data
> file, to be checked in alongside the EPLA.git import of the project.
>
>   - changes to "make dist" to integrate these files, and setup autoloading so
> their inclusion is transparent to end users.
>
> Please comment with your recommendations for the first, and supporting changes
> for the second, if anyone has ideas. Phillip, how is your work on these coming
> along?

At the moment it isn't. My original plan, if you remember, to have emacs
core load ELPA packages with package.el. This requires some minor
re-working of package.el (so that the -Q doesn't block them), some
Makefile fiddling and introducing some standards to test file location
in ELPA, so that it's possible to run ELPA tests from within core.

The alternative proposal is, essentially, to copy files into the Emacs
core build structure and move from there.

Reading the discussion reinforces my feeling that the latter is the
wrong approach, because it reinforces a distinction between packages on
ELPA and packages in core above and beyond the location that they are
stored and versioned. I can't see the advantage of doing this.

I will probably try to work a little further on my package.el solution,
although there seems little enthusiasm for this as the way forward.

Phil

Re: [O] Sync up the org in emacs master to org maint branch?

[Phillip Lord]

On Wed, February 1, 2017 6:51 pm, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Aaron Ecay  writes:
>
>
>> If ELPA made available (on the server for downloading, and in the
>> client for installing) old versions of packages, then users could always
>> be offered the latest compatible version, but not later incompatible
>> ones.
>
> I don't think having Emacs developers fixing bugs in a number of
> different versions of a package sounds like a good way to spend time,
> either.

Well, they do that anyway. Org-mode, in Emacs core is quite a way behind
org-mode latest. That's the start point of this discussion. And, for
packages which are maintained only in core (not synced to an external repo
like org), well, we currently have Emacs-25 and Emacs-26 in active
development.

Currently development of Emacs core with slow releases contributes to
this, because the old versions of org remain around and in active use for
a long period of time. In the case of org, this was exacerbated when it
changed the features it provides, meaning that upgrading to ELPA worked
imperfectly.

There is even a reasonable possibility that with a smaller core, and
faster releases, fewer changes would happen in core, so supporting
multiple versions might well become easier because the differences would
be smaller.

These are complex questions, and it's hard to get evidence one way or
another. But many other systems do support numerous small packages,
building up into a greater whole: consider npm, CPAN, CRAN, CTAN or,
indeed, debian. And, yes, sometimes we do end up in version hell, but
mostly we don't.

Phil

Re: [O] Preventing Org from being installed by elpa

[Phillip Lord]

Karl Voit <devn...@karl-voit.at> writes:

> * Phillip Lord <phillip.l...@russet.org.uk> wrote:
>> Karl Voit <devn...@karl-voit.at> writes:
>>
>>> I got the tipp of creating «~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-3101/org-pkg.el»
>>> with:
>>>   (define-package "org" "3101" "Dummy org mode package" 'nil)
>>
>>
>> You could probably do something with package-pinned-packages also.
>
> Hm.
>
> I'm not an expert in package.el or package managers in general but
> isn't "pinning" something different? I thought that pinning is
> "install a package and prevent it from being updated".
>
> Whereas I want to avoid a package to be installed in the first
> place.


Pinning is to say "I want this package to come from this place". In this
case, you want to say "I want this package to come from the file
system". It seems a related issue.

It's not going to happen unless someone codes it or reports it, though.

Phil

Re: [O] Preventing Org from being installed by elpa

[Phillip Lord]

Karl Voit  writes:

> * Eric Abrahamsen  wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I have a third: the plain old Org package from the
>> package repos, because I've installed other packages that require
>> it. (Another gripe: why isn't the loading of a file containing
>> (provide 'org) enough to tell the package manager not to install
>> another one?)
>
> I got the tipp of creating «~/.emacs.d/elpa/org-3101/org-pkg.el»
> with:
>   (define-package "org" "3101" "Dummy org mode package" 'nil)
>
> And this simulates the fulfilled dependency so that my git version
> of Org-mode is the only one installed (besides maybe the default one
> from Emacs).


You could probably do something with package-pinned-packages also.

This is probably something that package.el should support, so when not
submit a bug report?

Re: [O] Remove Org from Emacs repository?

[Phillip Lord]

Achim Gratz <strom...@nexgo.de> writes:

> Phillip Lord writes:
>> I think there's only a few problems, actually. package.el initialization
>> is all or nothing at the moment, and is disabled on emacs -q. Neither of
>> these would make sense if we wanted in built packages.
>
> My opinion is that unless package.el adds explicit support for
> system-level packetization decisions (i.e. for admins or distributions)
> it's not going to gain widespread support from that small, but important
> set of folks.

I think it mostly has this, in the sense that you can add packages into
admin installation locations. Although, this are disabled with emacs -Q.

> Of course the user will then have to be able to override these like
> deactivation of packages, installing different versions, etc.

Different versions you can do. Deactivation at the moment, no, although
I guess you could delete the autoloads.

> Before long it also needs to be able to cope with different package
> archives simultaneously especially when those have incompatible
> numbering schemes.

That one would be a bit harder, although you could add support for
package repositories to add their own numbering scheme by installating a
package.

>
>> It's not strictly necessary, though. The current idea is to not to use
>> packages but to, essentially, move the lisp of packages in ELPA into
>> place in the build. package.el need not be involved then.
>
> Yes I know.  Which is in essence prolonging the current state of affairs
> as far as the users are concerned.  If it gets things moving into the
> right direction I'll be glad.  I just had hoped for some more general
> (some would say radical) solution.

Some did say radical, unfortunately.

Still, you give me encouragement. I may complete my solution after
all. Perhaps combined with a completely repackaged Emacs core.

Phil

Re: [O] Remove Org from Emacs repository?

[Phillip Lord]

Achim Gratz  writes:
>> Now that package.el is mature, there's no need for Emacs to include all
>> this stuff in its source releases.
>
> That assertion isn't universally accepted as true.  Org in particular
> continues to show how the integration into Emacs as well as some
> functionality in package.el itself is still lacking.  True packetization
> of Emacs' "built-in" packages is further hindered by the fact that
> package.el is currently solely "user-centric" and lacks the usual
> facilities for curating package selection at the installation level.

I think there's only a few problems, actually. package.el initialization
is all or nothing at the moment, and is disabled on emacs -q. Neither of
these would make sense if we wanted in built packages.

It's not strictly necessary, though. The current idea is to not to use
packages but to, essentially, move the lisp of packages in ELPA into
place in the build. package.el need not be involved then.

Phil

Re: [O] Remove Org from Emacs repository?

[Phillip Lord]

Reuben Thomas  writes:

> On 18 December 2016 at 13:20, Carsten Dominik  wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I'd hate to see Org removed from Emacs.  It took a lot of work to get it
>> in, and I believe that the vast majority of Emacs users does not install
>> packages.  For a newbie to get to Emacs and to be able to open a .org file
>> is a big plus.  So my vote goes toward keeping it in.
>>
>
> ​Since you're responsible for org-mode, and I guess you're happy with the
> coordination between (your) upstream and Emacs, then ​I agree it should
> continue to be distributed out of the box.
>
> However, your comments raise a couple of thoughts:
>
> 1. Is there something hard about packages that could be made easier? For
> example, Atom seems to get along fine without many built-in packages, so
> that most users expect to install some.
>
> 2. Is there any possibility to make org-mode a build-time dependency of
> Emacs, like the C libraries that it requires, or is that a silly idea? That
> could permit it to be shipped as built-in, without having its source
> duplicated in Emacs's repository.

This kind of idea is, indeed, being actively considered on
emacs-devel. In fact, I managed to get a simple version of this working
using package.el during the build process. The idea would be that
packages in ELPA format could be made available to Emacs during the
build and then be packaged with the tarball as now.

The general feedback on my implementation was negative, but the general
principle is something that people are keen to pursue, hopefully for
Emacs-26. Org-mode would make a good test case for this.

Another possibility would be to extend the current "autoload"
functionality, so that it can install via package.el before
autoloading. Might work, but not tried that yet.


Phil

[O] org-info

[Phillip Lord]

I'm having two problems with org-info.js.

Firstly, it's currently available and is linked into generated HTML at
http://orgmode.org/org-info.js; this makes it non-functional when
delivered via https.

Secondly, in HTML generated by org mode, this license condition is
added:

* As additional permission under GNU GPL version 3 section 7, you
 * may distribute non-source (e.g., minimized or compacted) forms of
 * that code without the copy of the GNU GPL normally required by
 * section 4, provided you include this license notice and a URL
 * through which recipients can access the Corresponding Source.

which is fine, except that by default, the URL doesn't appear to be
added. There is this:

  * @source: http://orgmode.org/org-info.js

but that's not the source, but a minimized version.

Is it possible to have an option for linking via https? And have a link
to the actual source added?

Phil

[O] remove sections with specific names

[Phillip Lord]

I'm trying to remove sections with specific names from the exported
output (I know about adding a :noexport: tag, but I always want to
remove the ones of the same name).

I've tried using :filter-section but if I return nil from this, it
removes the section but this leaves the headline in and I want to remove
both.

So, I think I need to use :filter-parse-tree. I'm struggling here a bit
though. I'm not sure how to pull apart the parse tree.

Am I going about this in the right way, or am I, erm, barking up the
wrong tree?

Phil

Re: [O] template for writing Emacs manuals in Org

[Phillip Lord]

Eric Abrahamsen  writes:

> "Thomas S. Dye"  writes:
>
>> Aloha Eric,
>>
>> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>>
>>> "Thomas S. Dye"  writes:
>>>
 Rasmus writes:

> Once upon a time Tom ported the Org manual.  It's on his github, probably
> under tsdye.

 https://github.com/tsdye/orgmanual
>>>
> I remember where I originally saw this: it was a long thread on
> emacs.devel about moving documentation to HTML, which struck me as a
> terrible idea. I think Org was raised as a way of lowering the barrier
> to writing texinfo manuals for packages, so that we get the best of both
> worlds: write in Org, read in Info. I think it would be a great idea to
> facilitate that, if possible.


I still have a desire to take this forward, although lack the time to do
so on my own.

Having org generate texinfo that plugs directly into existing manuals
would be nice (as it would allow a piecemeal translation). Helping to
define a new HTML based representation (with adding semantics) that
would add the features of info to HTML (and the features of HTML to
info!) would be the ultimate. org-info.js is some of the way there
already.

Then we could use any kind of source (besides org) to generate the HTML,
and hopefully, have it all work together.

Phil

[O] bug#23365: 25.0.93; org-mode fails on export with include

[Phillip Lord]

Rasmus  writes:

> The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
> that has been posted to gmane.emacs.orgmode as well.
>
> Kaushal Modi  writes:
>
>>> Is org-mode in core going to be updated before 25.1?
>>
>>
>>  Copying the org-mode ML for this.
>
> AFAIU, by the time we were ready to merge 8.3, upstream preferred to keep
> 8.2.
>
> My understanding is that the 8.2-series is not really maintained any
> longer, and I don’t know that it contains any promises of forward
> comparability.  I guess "backporting" the required changes to Emacs-core
> would be the easiest way forward.


Done! Thanks for the feedback.

Phil

[O] bug#23365: 25.0.93; org-mode fails on export with include

[Phillip Lord]

phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

> Emacs fails in org-mode when exporting; testing from current head.
>


I've checked this a little further -- the current org mode on ELPA does
not fail in the same way -- org-map-entries has changed the call from:

(org-agenda-prepare-buffers
  (list (buffer-file-name (current-buffer

to:

(org-agenda-prepare-buffers
 (and buffer-file-name (list buffer-file-name)))

which fixes the problem.

Is org-mode in core going to be updated before 25.1?

Phil

Re: [O] [OT] A new web browser‽

[Phillip Lord]

Michael Welle  writes:

>> Did you submit a bug report?
> no, I didn't. I think it's by design and more a feature request than a
> bug. And to be honest, eww is not so important to me. w3m works quite
> nice.


The bug tracker is for feature requests also!

Phil

Re: [O] [OT] A new web browser‽

[Phillip Lord]

Michael Welle  writes:

> Hallo,
>
> Peter Davis  writes:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 02:09 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> 
>>> eww ;-)
>>> 
>>
>> I never played with eww before. It looks interesting, but seriously, is
>> there any way to cancel a large download? My emacs is completely locked
>> up now downloading an image from a site.
>>
>> I assume it's all customized with lisp, and you can set it to not
>> download images except on request.
> that's what bothered me the most the last time I tested eww. It's the
> same when the website doesn't respond.


Did you submit a bug report?

Phil

[O] bug#22399: org-mode fontification

[Phillip Lord]

Bastien Guerry  writes:

> Kyle Meyer  writes:
>
>>> Thanks for installing this -- Kyle, do you confirm you installed the
>>> change in Org's git repo?
>>
>> Yes, in a4edee4.
>
> Thanks!


And thank you everyone for fixing!

Phil

[O] bug#22399: org-mode fontification

[Phillip Lord]

Rasmus <ras...@gmx.us> writes:

> Hi Phillip,
>
> Thanks for your report.
>
> phillip.l...@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:
>
>> On emacs-25 ox-html, line 1847, org-html-fontify-code does this...
>>
>> (setq code (with-temp-buffer
>> ;; Switch to language-specific mode.
>> (funcall lang-mode)
>> (insert code)
>> ;; Fontify buffer.
>> (org-font-lock-ensure)
>>
>>
>> But `org-font-lock-ensure' is defined like so
>>
>> (defalias 'org-font-lock-ensure
>>   (if (fboundp 'org-font-lock-ensure)
>>   #'font-lock-ensure
>> (lambda (_beg _end) (font-lock-fontify-buffer
>>
>>
>> which takes two args, causing crashes when exporting to code to HTML.
>
> This is fixed in the most recent stable version of Org, i.e. 8.3.3¹ ,
> which, I guess, will be part of if Emacs 25.2 or 26.1 (whichever comes
> first and allow new features).  It’s also fixed in 8.2.10².  I guess
> Emacs-25 should switch v8.2.10.  [Honestly, when v8.3 couldn’t be merged I
> did not cross my mind to upgrade to v8.2.10].  In case v8.2.10 it too
> radical, a "local fix" must be applied to the version of Org in emacs.git.


Well, the fix on emacs-25 appears to be trivial i.e.

(org-font-lock-ensure (point-min) (point-max))

But I don't know what the protocol is for org-mode as it's upstream.
AFAICT, this is a regression from emacs-24.5, so it would be a shame if
the bug gets into 25.1.

Let me know if you want me to do anything!

Phil

Re: [O] bug#22399: org-mode fontification

[Phillip Lord]

Rasmus  writes:
>
> Kyle Meyer  writes:
>
>>> However, it's easy enough to switch to using an org-font-lock-ensure
>>> variant that avoids these issues, so I will do that (in an updated
>>> patch and on Org's maint).
>>
>> I've attached updated patches against emacs-25.  If these are applied to
>> the Emacs repo, I'll backport the new font-lock-ensure alias to Org's
>> maint.
>
> Looks good, thanks.


Just checking whether on who is going to apply the patches! They don't
seem to be on emacs-25 yet.

Phil

Re: [O] bug#22399: org-mode fontification

[Phillip Lord]

Kyle Meyer  writes:

> Kyle Meyer  writes:
>> Rasmus  writes:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Note, this change only lives it the Emacs version of Org.  It was added in
>>> this commit:
>>>
>>>6711a21f1125c0047c56eb266eb374c1ec90a967
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> This commit was backported in Org commit d81e6b5, and then followed up
>> by c115c7b (org-compat: Use different font-lock-ensure alias,
>> 2015-07-26), which defined the alias as
>>
>> (unless (fboundp 'font-lock-ensure)
>>   (defalias 'font-lock-ensure 'font-lock-fontify-buffer))
>
> I've attached two patches against emacs-25 that would get the Org and
> Emacs repos in similar states wrt font-lock-ensure.
>
> The first patch replaces the font-lock-ensure compatibility alias from
> 6711a21f1 with the one currently used in the Org repo (from commit
> e6883dd03).  The new alias is limited to being called with no
> arguments, but, at the moment, no Org code calls font-lock-ensure with
> any arguments.
>
> The second patch reverts a part of 6711a21f1 that modified
> org-src-font-lock-fontify-block to use font-lock-ensure rather than
> font-lock-fontify-buffer.  In this particular case, using
> font-lock-ensure instead of font-lock-fontify-buffer fails to
> highlight the source block.


I've tested these on emacs-25 and can confirm that they solve the
problem.

Thanks!

Phil

Re: [O] Adding new switch or header

[Phillip Lord]

Eric S Fraga <e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Tuesday,  3 Nov 2015 at 21:57, Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Are these form of attributes specific to the source block which they
>> precede? Or is it possible to do any kind of inheritance with them? For
>> my use case, all the code blocks inside a Header One block will behave
>> in the same way (either with \[ escaping or without).
>
> No idea!  Maybe Nicolas can help here as I assume this is all a function
> of the parser.

No worries. Many thanks for the feedback.

Phil

[O] Adding new switch or header

[Phillip Lord]

I am trying to implement a new backend based on the HTML export. I need
to do some post-processing to the source blocks that needs to be
optional. For some blocks I need to replace "[" with "\[" and for some I
don't.

I am not sure whether to use headers or switches.

So

#+begin_src java -s
  student[ 4 ]
#+end_src

would produce html with

  student\[ 4 ]

inside, while

#+begin_src java
  student[ 4 ]
#+end_src

would produce just

  student[ 4 ]


Is it possible to add new switches? And in the exporter how do I know
which switches are present on a block?

Phil

Re: [O] Adding new switch or header

[Phillip Lord]

Eric S Fraga <e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Tuesday,  3 Nov 2015 at 15:54, Phillip Lord wrote:
>> I am trying to implement a new backend based on the HTML export. I need
>> to do some post-processing to the source blocks that needs to be
>> optional. For some blocks I need to replace "[" with "\[" and for some I
>> don't.
>>
>> I am not sure whether to use headers or switches.
>
> What about neither?  Maybe something along #+ATTR_XXX: instead, where
> XXX is the name of your derived backend, along the lines of ATTR_HTML
> and ATTR_LATEX?
>
> Others may tell us that my suggestion is worse but I think playing
> around with the babel syntax is asking for trouble...

That's a good call, I think. The latex example is very clear, so I've
got that implemented now.

Are these form of attributes specific to the source block which they
precede? Or is it possible to do any kind of inheritance with them? For
my use case, all the code blocks inside a Header One block will behave
in the same way (either with \[ escaping or without).

Not a major problem if not, I can template it if not, but useful to
know.


Phil

Re: [O] How to make a non-GPL Org-mode exporter?

[Phillip Lord]

Marcin Borkowski mb...@mbork.pl writes:

 Hi all,

 after a short discussion in a recent thread, I have a serious technical
 question.

 Assume that (for some reason) I want to write an Org-mode exporter which
 won't be GPL'd.  (Use-case: having written a few custom exporters, I'm
 writing a tutorial on them, and I consider publishing a *tutorial* with
 GPL'd code a Bad Thing™.  (The idea of a programming tutorial is that
 other people can or even should reuse the code in the tutorial, right?
 And I see no reason to impose GPL on them.))

 How do I do that?  Is that even possible?  Also, is it possible to get
 an actual answer to this question without spending money on lawyers?


I hesitate to answer this, as the thread has already been long and I am
very late, but it seems to me that the thread has been wrong headed.

Yes, you can do this. To do it, well, you just do it.

My evidence for these statements are as follows:

;;; emerge.el --- merge diffs under Emacs control

;;; The author has placed this file in the public domain.

;; This file is part of GNU Emacs.

This is the header of emerge.el which is PART OF emacs, and yet under
public domain, explicitly.

However, you have to consider carefully what rights this gives you. The
combined work can only be released GPL. You can combine GPL and public
domain because public domain section does not add any further
restrictions than the GPL already does. However, because you include GPL
code, you can *only* release the derivative work under GPL.

However, your public domain code can be used without GPL.

My evidence for this statement is from the GPL faq


If a program combines public-domain code with GPL-covered code, can I
take the public-domain part and use it as public domain code?
(#CombinePublicDomainWithGPL)

You can do that, if you can figure out which part is the public
domain part and separate it from the rest. If code was put in the
public domain by its developer, it is in the public domain no matter
where it has been.


My interpretation is, therefore, that theoretically, if someone re-wrote
Emacs, and org-mode with no shared code but the same function names
public domain, therefore, they could use your exporter. In practice this
is never going to happen.

However, say you wrote an exporter which included a general purpose
piece of code (say a quick sort), someone else *could* take that piece
of code and use it, for example, on another lisp as they chose, even in
a closed source product because your exporter is only under PD, and
there are no restrictions on it use. Possible but unlikely, I think, as
an org-mode exporter is a pretty specific piece of code.

You might, however, want to do this because for a blog post, it avoids
issues of how to interpret the GPL, including linking and all that
entails within the context of what is, after all, documentation.

That is my interpretation, with evidence. I think my position largely
disagrees with what others have said. My apologies to everyone who sees
my start this as a zombie thread who says oh know, no that again.

Phil

Re: [O] HTML/images zipped?

[Phillip Lord]

data-uri's is probably what you want. There is no standard format for
zipping multiple HTML files together, while including images (or video's
or audio) directly into the HTML works reasonably well.

I found a snippet to get ox-html to do this -- it would be a good
feature to add properly though!


Peter Davis p...@pfdstudio.com writes:

 Is there any way to export HTML with all references images,
 etc. packaged in a ZIP file?

 Thank you.

 -pd





-- 
Phillip Lord,   Phone: +44 (0) 191 208 7827
Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk
School of Computing Science,
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
Room 914 Claremont Tower,   skype: russet_apples
Newcastle University,   twitter: phillord
NE1 7RU 

Re: [O] Organizing and taming hectic Academia work (faculty viewpoint)? Tips or a good guides sought after :)

[Phillip Lord]

For me, I was interested in integrating it with my literate work
(lentic). The idea would be a document with some formal representation
(using OWL, but it could be anything at all) and some English (or bad
English as this is science) representation in the org-mode view.

I could hide the formal view, and use this to generate a word doc for
the biologists to say is this what you said, and what you mean?. Then
use their comments and feedback to update both the English AND the
formal representation.

I've already had a paper bounced on the (daft) grounds that biologists
are never going to use Emacs and Clojure (which I never said they
would). A word based representation would be fantastic.

I shall investigate further.

Phil

John Kitchin jkitc...@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

 I also wasn't familiar with it.

 I just played around with it a bit to see if you could integrate org-ref
 with this. You mostly can do it, but the document probably would need
 some final manual polishing for some things.

 http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu/blog/2015/06/11/ox-pandoc-org-mode-+-org-ref-to-docx-with-bibliographies/



 Phillip Lord writes:

 I didn't know about this -- this could be a killer feature for me. I
 work a lot with biologists and medics and they are completely
 word-centric.

 Phil

 Titus von der Malsburg malsb...@posteo.de writes:

 On 2015-06-10 Wed 07:14, Ken Mankoff wrote:
 I found a happy medium working in Org, exporting to LaTeX, and then
 using Pandoc to convert to Word.

 With ox-pandoc you can export to .docx directly.  No need to go through
 LaTeX.  Ox-pandoc is pretty amazing.

   Titus

 I would send the Word and always the canonical PDF version in case some
 equations got messed up. This requires manually incorporating the tracked
 changes from Word, but I've never been a fan of just clicking accept on
 changes anyway, and don't mind the manual re-integration of comments.

   -k.


 On 2015-06-10 at 09:49, John Kitchin jkitc...@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:
 Speaking as an advisor/teacher, you should do what they want if you want
 them to help you.

 You could ask if they are willing to comment on the pdf, either by hand
 writing on a printed version, or by pdf commenting, or maybe in the
 LaTeX source. But, if that is not what they want, and they cannot work
 with what you give them, you will not get as much feedback as you want,
 and you will end up creating frustration on your end and theirs.

 windy writes:

 Another question, I am a student , I think it is a big problem that how 
 to
 exchange you article with your teacher, because the teacher will comment
 or revise your article once again and again.

 However, Many teachers will not use emacs to write articles and also the
 pdf file is not so convenient to do some modification, how will you deal
 with the problem ?







 在2015年06月09 21时21分, John Kitchinjkitc...@andrew.cmu.edu写道:

 you might also enjoy our youtube video:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgizHHd7nOo

 And this one on using org-mode in teaching:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsSMs-4GlT8list=FLQp2VLAOlvq142YN3JO3y8w

 and
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRUCiF2MwP4

 See http://github.com/jkitchin/jmax for my Emacs setup for
 org-mode.

 My only other advice is start learning to program in emacs-lisp. It took
 me about four years to get proficient enough to write org-ref. I learned
 by solving lots of little problems, and building up to bigger
 problems. A lot of those are documented in my blog. Read the emacs and
 emacs-lisp manuals (read them in Emacs or in a browser). They take some
 time, so skip the stuff that doesn't make sense and come back to it
 later if you need to. Consider getting the book at
 https://www.masteringemacs.org. It isn't about org-mode, but it will
 make you better at using Emacs. Consider reading Land of Lisp. It isn't
 about Emacs or Emacs-lisp, but it might interest you in programming in a
 lispy language, and it is a fun read.

 Buy the org-mode book:
 http://www.amazon.com/Org-Mode-Reference-Manual-Organize/dp/9881327709/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1433855847sr=8-1keywords=org-mode.
 yes,
 it is the same stuff as in the manual, but it is a book you can read
 anywhere anytime.

 Start by learning how to get org-mode to do some things you want. Just
 do one thing a day. Every day.

 You hopefully have 30+ years of career ahead of you, so even if it takes
 a few years or more to learn how to program in emacs-lisp to customize
 your workflows, you still have plenty of time to benefit from it!

 Best wishes,

 Holger Wenzel writes:

 Hi Xebar,



 Xebar Saram zeltakc at gmail.com writes:



 Dear Martin
 Thanks so much for your prompt response. I did ofc do an extensive 
 google
 research yet found that as can be seen in your link most entries focus 
 on
 either writing papers or general bits an pieces .What i am looking for 
 is a
 holistic approach regarding organizing all aspects of academic life and 
 to
 hear workflows of other colleagues using org

Re: [O] Organizing and taming hectic Academia work (faculty viewpoint)? Tips or a good guides sought after :)

[Phillip Lord]

 and
 lack of
  coding skills) i still feel like im really not using orgmode to its
 potential
  and still feel miserably lost in terms of organizing my work in 
  academia
 from
  all aspects.
 
  i am looking for 2 things really:
  1. as i said in the post topic a good guide if anyone is aware of or
 detailed
  examples of using org in Academia (mainly aimed at faculty :))
 
  2. related to that as a young researcher with multiple students, paper
  writing, grant applications, department duties, endless TODOS, endless
 email i
  would really be grateful for even non org specific tips on how other
 people
  organize all this to make life more..well..organized :)
 
  thanks alot in advance and sorry for the long mail
 
  best
 
  Z

 Dear Xebar,
 I think the first 10 results of the correspondindg google search already
 show some very interesting examples:http://www.google.com/search?
 client=safarirls=enq=emacs+org-mode+in+resear
 chie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8
 Did you have a look at those?
 Kind regards
 Martin








-- 
Phillip Lord,   Phone: +44 (0) 191 208 7827
Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk
School of Computing Science,
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
Room 914 Claremont Tower,   skype: russet_apples
Newcastle University,   twitter: phillord
NE1 7RU 

[O] correlating positions between org-mode and export

[Phillip Lord]

Is there any way to correlate between the position in an org-mode buffer
and an export from that buffer. So, if I have


* Header

With some text


Exported to

h1Header/h1

pWith some text/p

I want do be able to match between the position of the W in with
between the two buffers?


Phil

Re: [O] HTML + RDFa export/publishing ?

[Phillip Lord]

I've been thinking the same recently. For me, I was interested in
supporting RASH which is HTML+RDFa.

http://cs.unibo.it/save-sd/rash/documentation/index.html

Would be nice to have an org-mode for scientific communication tool.
Publishing an Emacs paper would be kind of fun also.

Phil


John Kitchin jkitc...@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

 Can you give us an example of what you are trying to do? I don't think
 org-mode supports this rich of behavior out of the box, but see
 http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu/blog/2015/02/05/Extending-the-org-mode-link-syntax-with-attributes/
 for an example idea of what you could imagine doing with a link type
 approach that could be inline with text.

 John

 ---
 Professor John Kitchin
 Doherty Hall A207F
 Department of Chemical Engineering
 Carnegie Mellon University
 Pittsburgh, PA 15213
 412-268-7803
 @johnkitchin
 http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu


 On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Olivier Berger 
 olivier.ber...@telecom-sudparis.eu wrote:

 Hi.

 I'd like to create a publishing project to export HTML pages, and I'd
 like to use org-mode syntax for authoring, and I'd like to embed RDFa
 meta-data inside the generated HTML.

 I'm wondering if anyone has investigated a mean in org-mode to embed
 such meta-data.

 I kinda imagine properties may be used for this, but I'm not so much
 familiar with using org-mode for storing structured data...

 Maybe POSH is the answer, but org-mode syntax and editing modes are so
 cool ;)

 Thanks in advance.

 Best regards,
 --
 Olivier BERGER
 http://www-public.telecom-sudparis.eu/~berger_o/ - OpenPGP-Id:
 2048R/5819D7E8
 Ingenieur Recherche - Dept INF
 Institut Mines-Telecom, Telecom SudParis, Evry (France)




-- 
Phillip Lord,   Phone: +44 (0) 191 208 7827
Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk
School of Computing Science,
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
Room 914 Claremont Tower,   skype: russet_apples
Newcastle University,   twitter: phillord
NE1 7RU 

[O] Stop exporting certain sections

[Phillip Lord]

I know that I can add :noexport to a section to stop it being exported,
but is there a way of doing this for headers with a specific name? I
have lots of them, and would rather not :noexport to them all.

Phil

[O] [ANN] Lentic 0.7

[Phillip Lord]

Lentic.el 0.7 is now available.

Lentic is an Emacs mode which supports multiple views over the same text. This
can be used for a form of literate programming. It has specific support for
Clojure which it can combine with either LaTeX, Asciidoc or Org-Mode.

Two lentic buffers, by default, the two share content but are otherwise
independent. Therefore, you can have two buffers open, each showing the
content in different modes; to switch modes, you simply switch buffers. The
content, location of point, and view are shared.

However, lentic also allows a bi-directional transformation between lentic
buffers -- the buffers can have different but related text. This allows, for
example, one buffer to contain an Emacs lisp file, while the other contains
the same text but with ;; comment characters removed leaving the content in
org-mode, enabling a form of literate Emacs-Lisp programming with no change to
either org-mode or Emacs-Lisp. Ready made transformations are also available
for Clojure, latex and asciidoc.

Lentic is both configurable and extensible, using the EIEIO object system.

Lentic was previously known as Linked-Buffers.

The 0.7 release adds an integrated documentation system, support for Haskell,
LaTeX literate programming and best of all, a ROT-13 transformation.

Available on MELPA-stable, MELPA and Marmalade
https://github.com/phillord/lentic

Re: [O] Stop exporting certain sections

[Phillip Lord]

Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:

 phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 I know that I can add :noexport to a section to stop it being exported,
 but is there a way of doing this for headers with a specific name? I
 have lots of them, and would rather not :noexport to them all.

 Use a filter an export an empty quote if the name matches your
 conditions.  See org-export-filter-headline-functions.

 Hope it helps,


It does, thank you very much!

Phil

Re: [O] save folded state

[Phillip Lord]

Worth trying the buffer-invisibility-spec solution. I'd be interested to
know if it works or not. Although I wonder whether the commands that you
are using really should be obeying visibility context.

Phil

John Kitchin johnrkitc...@gmail.com writes:
 yes, I meant programatically. I was having some issue in selecting
 contex using commands that grab what is visible. So for things inside a
 folded section it was not grabbing the right context.

 I solved it by doing something similar to what you describe, i.e. a
 tempbuffer.

 lentic looks pretty interesting.

 Phillip Lord writes:

 You mean programmatically? Is folding not just implemented with
 invisible overlays? If so, why do you need to change this to get
 context?

 You can try setting buffer-invisibility-spec temporarily. For example,
 run this function in a folded org-mode buffer.

 (defun temp ()
   (interactive)
   (message invisibility spec stuff)
   (let ((buffer-invisibility-spec '()))
 (message sitting)
 (sit-for 5))
   (message done))

 It unfolds everything but having the display engine ignore all
 overlays/text properties.

 If you want to do this interactively, and you will forgive the plug, my
 own package, lentic, would enable you to do this. You can open up a
 second buffer which has the same text as the first, but could be folded
 completely independently of the original. At the moment, you only get
 one copy, but I'll expand that to any number at some point. When you're
 finished kill the copy, and all the changed folding goes with it.

 Phil


 John Kitchin johnrkitc...@gmail.com writes:

 I am trying to map over a buffer with headlines in various states of
 folded, and get context around certain elements. I find I need to fully
 expand the buffer to get the context in the way I am currently doing it
 (e.g. getting the lines around the element), but I would like to put the
 buffer back to the way it was when I am finished. This is not done with
 the usual macros like save-excursion, save-restriction, etc... Is there
 a way to do this other than a temp buffer?

 thanks,

 --
 Professor John Kitchin
 Doherty Hall A207F
 Department of Chemical Engineering
 Carnegie Mellon University
 Pittsburgh, PA 15213
 412-268-7803
 @johnkitchin
 http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu

 --
 Professor John Kitchin
 Doherty Hall A207F
 Department of Chemical Engineering
 Carnegie Mellon University
 Pittsburgh, PA 15213
 412-268-7803
 @johnkitchin
 http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu



-- 
Phillip Lord,   Phone: +44 (0) 191 208 7827
Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk
School of Computing Science,
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
Room 914 Claremont Tower,   skype: russet_apples
Newcastle University,   twitter: phillord
NE1 7RU 

Re: [O] save folded state

[Phillip Lord]

You mean programmatically? Is folding not just implemented with
invisible overlays? If so, why do you need to change this to get
context?

You can try setting buffer-invisibility-spec temporarily. For example,
run this function in a folded org-mode buffer.

(defun temp ()
  (interactive)
  (message invisibility spec stuff)
  (let ((buffer-invisibility-spec '()))
(message sitting)
(sit-for 5))
  (message done))

It unfolds everything but having the display engine ignore all
overlays/text properties.

If you want to do this interactively, and you will forgive the plug, my
own package, lentic, would enable you to do this. You can open up a
second buffer which has the same text as the first, but could be folded
completely independently of the original. At the moment, you only get
one copy, but I'll expand that to any number at some point. When you're
finished kill the copy, and all the changed folding goes with it.

Phil


John Kitchin johnrkitc...@gmail.com writes:

 I am trying to map over a buffer with headlines in various states of
 folded, and get context around certain elements. I find I need to fully
 expand the buffer to get the context in the way I am currently doing it
 (e.g. getting the lines around the element), but I would like to put the
 buffer back to the way it was when I am finished. This is not done with
 the usual macros like save-excursion, save-restriction, etc... Is there
 a way to do this other than a temp buffer?

 thanks,

 --
 Professor John Kitchin
 Doherty Hall A207F
 Department of Chemical Engineering
 Carnegie Mellon University
 Pittsburgh, PA 15213
 412-268-7803
 @johnkitchin
 http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu

Re: [O] org-info.js

[Phillip Lord]

Achim Gratz strom...@nexgo.de writes:

 Phillip Lord writes:
 Can anyone tell me where the source code for org-info at

 http://orgmode.org/org-info.js

 is? This verison if minified.

 There are these:

 https://github.com/SebastianRose/org-info-js/

 A copy of this version is on Worg under code/org-info-js, the plain
 source is org-info-src.js.


Thanks!

Phil

[O] org-info.js

[Phillip Lord]

Can anyone tell me where the source code for org-info at

http://orgmode.org/org-info.js

is? This verison if minified.

There are these:

https://github.com/SebastianRose/org-info-js/
https://github.com/RickMoynihan/org-info-js

Some of the web pages aabout org-info aren't working.

http://orgmode.org/worg/code/org-info-js/index.html

Unfortunately, it is only output to documents including it in minified
forms and as a link.

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

Alan Schmitt alan.schm...@polytechnique.org writes:

 I gave this a try and it works well.

 Can I ask, why do you want to kill the buffer? Why not just bury it?

 Because otherwise I get this the next time I start lentic for the same
 file:

 A buffer is visiting /Users/schmitta/tmp/lentic_test.org; proceed? (y or n) y

 and I get yet another buffer.


Oh, yeah, that. This needs fixing. In general you don't need to create a
new buffer, just do `lentic-mode-move-lentic-window' (C-c,h or here in
the menu item) or `lentic-mode-swap-lentic-windows' (C-c,s and supposed
to be in the menu, but I've just found it's bugged!). Personally, I do
   
(define-key lentic-mode-map [f1]
'lentic-mode-move-lentic-window)

which lets me switch backward and forward in the same window very quickly.

I will probably remove create at some point -- here and swap
should just create if necessary.

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

Thomas S. Dye t...@tsdye.com writes:

 Thierry Banel tbanelweb...@free.fr writes:

 You are not missing anything. MD or ORG do the job. It is just that your
 public is made of Emacs users, and Org-mode users. So ORG sounds
 familiar. GitHub renders pretty well ORG documents. And maybe someday
 there will be converters from ORG to INFO.

 Does INFO refer to the output of texinfo? If so, then there is already a
 path from ORG to INFO.  Jonathan Leech-Pepin has contributed a really
 nice texinfo exporter to the Org mode core, ox-texinfo.el.


Yeah. And indeed, lentic.el produces a reasonable .info via my own
lentic conversion, to org, to texinfo to info!.

The problem with MELPA specifically is that there is no way to run the
first two of these steps. They might be willing to add an org-texinfo
conversion.

https://github.com/milkypostman/melpa/issues/2251

It doubt that they are going to add support for lentic to convert
itself, though, at least not till all Emacs packages use it (I have
delusions of grandeur).

I'll talk with the melpa folks to see if anything can be done. Failing
that, I'll generate out the documentation, and stick it on a URL
somewhere.

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

Alan Schmitt alan.schm...@polytechnique.org writes:

 On 2015-01-09 19:18, phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 I've used a similar configuration
 
 #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 (add-hook 'emacs-lisp-mode-hook (lambda () (setq lentic-init 
 'lentic-orgel-org-init)))
 #+end_src

 Personally, I wouldn't do that! At the moment, my transformation doesn't
 work nicely for all el files. At a minimum, you need code markers at the
 before the first line of lisp and the after the last.

 Otherwise, all the code gets treated by org as text; if you run, say,
 fill-paragraph in the org-mode lentic view then it will do bad things 
 when all the code gets refilled.

 What are those markers? The #+begin_src one?

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Yep -- lentic is using the org-mode delimiters.


 Would you recommend using file-local variables for lentic files?

This works well. There is a function `lentic-mode-insert-file-local'
which helps with this. I am generally moving toward dir-locals though,
as this is less typing and generally easier.


 I gave it a try with this file:



 and it work well, with the exception of the file local variables that
 remain as text.

You have to double comment the file-local like so:

;; # Local Variables:
;; # lentic-init: lentic-orgel-org-init
;; # End:

Then it is commented in both forms.



 If your example is complete, I think it's because your code markers are
 unbalanced. Look in the *lentic-log* buffer and you should see lots of
 delimiters do not match. Put a ;; #+end_src in place and it should
 fix itself.

 This was not a full example, so there was the end marker. But as there
 is a lot of code below it as well (without markers), this may be the
 issue. The small example above works well.

Good. If you find any examples which fail, I'd be happy to look.



 This should probably be smoothed over in the user interface. I could
 tell the user when the lentic buffer is created. You've also uncovered a
 bug -- when the delimiters do not match, it's should be doing the safest
 transformation of all which is a direct copy; so the * Code line
 should have been left alone also.

 By the way, what is the correct way of exiting lentic mode? For the
 moment I kill the buffer and the window, but it would be nice to have
 a function that exits lentic.

At the moment, killing one or the other lentic buffers does the job.
Lentic checks for the killed buffer and all should be good. An exit
lentic command might be nice, indeed. It could close all lentic buffers
except the first (currently lentic only supports one buffer, but
eventually it should support many). But killing the buffer works fine
also.

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

joa...@verona.se writes:

 Thierry Banel tbanelweb...@free.fr writes:

 Nice!

 I also tried it and found it really interesting!

Thank you.



 I spent some time figuring out how to use it.

 This is what I did eventually:
   M-xlentic-mode
   M-xlentic-mode   ;; twice
   M-x lentic-mode-split-window-below
 Then change the new buffer to the desired mode (Java mode, C++ mode,
 whatever).
 (I was created in fundamental mode).

 Is this the standard way to use it?

 I also scratched my head before figuring anything out.

 I installed from Melpa, and the Melpa Lentic comes with 0 docs, which is sad.

What sort of docs are you looking for? Info?

 Then I cloned the github repo, and tried the examples, and got a bit
 more enlightened.

 To summarize, it would be nice if Lentic came with some form of docs in
 the Melpa repo. 

Of course, even when installed from Melpa it is self-documenting in the
sense that the source files are full of documentation. The lentic-org.el
file contains a description of how to convert an existing file from
being an normal el file to an orgel file (which is the name I have
given to an el file that converts cleanly to an org file with lentic).

I could translate these to info (via org-mode and texinfo). But melpa
presents a challenge here, since it works on the source only, and I need
to generate the texinfo from the source, at least as far as I know. So,
unless, I can get MELPA to run arbitrary lisp during build, I do not
know how this would work. Or I could denormalise my git repo and
put the generated files in there; not ideal.


 Or, why not install it en Elpa?

It depends on dash.el which is not on ELPA. It's not that dependent on
dash, though, so I could write dash.el out if I really needed to, but I
am hoping that dash gets into ELPA before I reach 1.0.


 BTW my interest in Lentic comes from that I recently started using
 Litterate programming for my emacs init file (which works very well)
 and also for some clojure/overtone code, where the literate paradigm is
 pretty useful (because overtone is a music live coding environment)

This was fairly similar to my driving use case, to be honest, where I am
combining a Clojure based ontology development environment with
documentation. I mentioned it to Sam Aaron last time I saw him, as I
think he uses org-mode performance notes. I can't remember whether I had
org-mode integration at that point, and it was slower then. I should
ping him again.

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

Thierry Banel tbanelweb...@free.fr writes:

 Le 15/01/2015 17:11, Phillip Lord a écrit :
 I spent some time figuring out how to use it.
 Of course, even when installed from Melpa it is self-documenting in the
 sense that the source files are full of documentation. The lentic-org.el
 file contains a description of how to convert an existing file from
 being an normal el file to an orgel file (which is the name I have
 given to an el file that converts cleanly to an org file with lentic).

 I could translate these to info (via org-mode and texinfo). But melpa
 presents a challenge here, since it works on the source only, and I need
 to generate the texinfo from the source, at least as far as I know. So,
 unless, I can get MELPA to run arbitrary lisp during build, I do not
 know how this would work. Or I could denormalise my git repo and
 put the generated files in there; not ideal.



 One possibility, not as good as info, but quite easy, is given by
 GitHub. Replace your current README.md with a README.org, in org-mode
 syntax.

Why this replacement? md or org should both work right? Or am I missing
something?

 Then tell Melpa that the Lentic home page is
 https://github.com/phillord/lentic.

I think it already has this.

 And begin this documentation with a quick start chapter.

I'm trying to avoid putting too much in README because it is already
documented in lentic and the other sources -- although, its clearly not
easy for people to find these.

For the next version, I will write some local tools to generate HTML
from source. Then I can expand the README to just point to those. And,
yes, an easy to find quick-start chapter would be good.

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

Alan Schmitt alan.schm...@polytechnique.org writes:

 On 2015-01-15 15:54, phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 Good. If you find any examples which fail, I'd be happy to look.

 It's not really failing, but I don't know how to put the end of file
 markers so that lentic likes it. For instance:

 ;; #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 (message foo)
 ;; #+end_src

 ;; #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 (provide 'lentic_test)
 ;; #+end_src

 ;; # Local Variables:
 ;; # lentic-init: lentic-orgel-org-init
 ;; # End:

 ;;; lentic_test.el ends here


 The last line is not nicely typeset.

So, local variables comes *after* the ends here line. Currently, the
ends here line needs to be *inside* a source block, so you would have...



;; #+begin_src emacs-lisp
(message foo)
;; #+end_src

;; #+begin_src emacs-lisp
(provide 'lentic_test)
;;; lentic_test.el ends here
;; #+end_src


;; # Local Variables:
;; # lentic-init: lentic-orgel-org-init
;; # End:



I am debating the last bit. I could treat the last line specially, as I
do the first, so it would end up as

# # lentic_test.el ends here

in the org-mode version. But then it would not appear in the any
org-mode output when perhaps it should.

 At the moment, killing one or the other lentic buffers does the job.
 Lentic checks for the killed buffer and all should be good. An exit
 lentic command might be nice, indeed. It could close all lentic buffers
 except the first (currently lentic only supports one buffer, but
 eventually it should support many). But killing the buffer works fine
 also.

 Right now it's a three steps process:
 - kill the buffer
 - confirm the kill as it's modified (the org buffer)
 - close the window

 This is why I think a lentic-exit command would be great.

Ah, okay. Currently, the save-buffer command in the org lentic view
should also save the .el version (I have the two hooked together). I was
thinking of adding two new features -- an auto-delete capability, so
that the file associated with the org-mode version is deleted when the
buffer is closed (or Emacs exists). This is to stop leaving lots of org
files around the place.

The process would then be

- save-buffer
- kill-buffer

I could also modify kill-buffer so that iff auto-delete is set, the
modification will not trigger save requests.

Can I ask, why do you want to kill the buffer? Why not just bury it?

Phil

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

I normally do

(global-lentic-start-mode)

which just adds some keybindings for you.

Then, do one of

lentic-mode-create-in-selected-window, (C-c,h)
lentic-mode-split-window-below, (C-c,b)
lentic-mode-split-window-right (C-c,r)

Or there are menu items which does the same.

All of these create the lentic view, and put in a window as you might
guess. By default, it does indeed come up in fundamental mode (probably
that's not sensible, and I should set it to the same mode as the
starting buffer.

It's configurable, though. By default, the two windows share the same
text (which is nearly the same behaviour as indirect buffers). But they
can also be different (but related). I use a file or dir-local variable
for this. So, the lentic source code uses:

((emacs-lisp-mode
  .
  ((lentic-init . lentic-orgel-org-init)
   (eval . (require 'm-buffer-macro)

This gives the behaviour shown in this screen cast.

https://vimeo.com/116078853

The eval thing is just to make sure some macros are loaded, so that that
they indent properly, which is an orthogonal issue.

None of this is org or Emacs-lisp specific. I just added that because I
could, and it wasn't that much effort (okay, so it was more effort than
I expected, but there you go). I wrote it in the first place for Clojure
and asciidoc, but am actually using it with clojure and latex.

Phil


 Nice!
 
 I spent some time figuring out how to use it.
 
 This is what I did eventually:
   M-xlentic-mode
   M-xlentic-mode   ;; twice
   M-x lentic-mode-split-window-below
 Then change the new buffer to the desired mode (Java mode, C++ mode,
 whatever).
 (I was created in fundamental mode).
 
 Is this the standard way to use it?
 
 Thierry

 Le 08/01/2015 14:55, Phillip Lord a écrit :
  I thought some of you might be interested in the new release of my
  package, lentic. One of the things that it now does is allow
  multi-modal of editing of Emacs source, using org mode for the
  documentation. I realise that it's already possible to use ELPA
  org-babel to write literate el files, or to use outorg.el, but lentic
  provides a different form of interaction. You can edit the org form or
  the emacs-lisp form as you choose. The source code of lentic is, itself,
  written in this way. There is a screen cast linked below which shows
  what the interaction looks like.
 
  Available on MELPA-stable, MELPA and Marmalade
  https://github.com/phillord/lentic
  http://www.russet.org.uk/blog/3035
  https://vimeo.com/116078853
 
 

Re: [O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

 On 2015-01-09 17:12, address@hidden (Phillip Lord) writes:
 
  It's configurable, though. By default, the two windows share the same
  text (which is nearly the same behaviour as indirect buffers). But they
  can also be different (but related). I use a file or dir-local variable
  for this. So, the lentic source code uses:
 
  ((emacs-lisp-mode
.
((lentic-init . lentic-orgel-org-init)
 (eval . (require 'm-buffer-macro)
 
 I've used a similar configuration
 
 #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 (add-hook 'emacs-lisp-mode-hook (lambda () (setq lentic-init 
 'lentic-orgel-org-init)))
 #+end_src

Personally, I wouldn't do that! At the moment, my transformation doesn't
work nicely for all el files. At a minimum, you need code markers at the
before the first line of lisp and the after the last.

Otherwise, all the code gets treated by org as text; if you run, say,
fill-paragraph in the org-mode lentic view then it will do bad things 
when all the code gets refilled.


 
 but it's not as nice as in the demo. For instance, the following:
 
 #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 ;;; Code:
 
 ;; ** Startup
 
 ;; #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 
 ;; Turn off mouse interface early in startup to avoid momentary display
 
 (if (fboundp 'tool-bar-mode) (tool-bar-mode -1))
 (if (fboundp 'scroll-bar-mode) (scroll-bar-mode -1))
 #+end_src
 
 becomes
 
 #+begin_src org
 * Code
 
 ;; ** Startup
 
 ;; #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 
 ;; Turn off mouse interface early in startup to avoid momentary display
 
 (if (fboundp 'tool-bar-mode) (tool-bar-mode -1))
 (if (fboundp 'scroll-bar-mode) (scroll-bar-mode -1))
 #+end_src
 
 Why the Startup is not promoted at the org level?

If your example is complete, I think it's because your code markers are
unbalanced. Look in the *lentic-log* buffer and you should see lots of
delimiters do not match. Put a ;; #+end_src in place and it should
fix itself.

This should probably be smoothed over in the user interface. I could
tell the user when the lentic buffer is created. You've also uncovered a
bug -- when the delimiters do not match, it's should be doing the safest
transformation of all which is a direct copy; so the * Code line
should have been left alone also.

Phil

[O] Lentic.0.6 and org mode

[Phillip Lord]

I thought some of you might be interested in the new release of my
package, lentic. One of the things that it now does is allow
multi-modal of editing of Emacs source, using org mode for the
documentation. I realise that it's already possible to use ELPA
org-babel to write literate el files, or to use outorg.el, but lentic
provides a different form of interaction. You can edit the org form or
the emacs-lisp form as you choose. The source code of lentic is, itself,
written in this way. There is a screen cast linked below which shows
what the interaction looks like.

Available on MELPA-stable, MELPA and Marmalade
https://github.com/phillord/lentic
http://www.russet.org.uk/blog/3035
https://vimeo.com/116078853

[O] Multi-file and master files

[Phillip Lord]

I've been writing a long document in org-mode recently. I decided to use
org-mode for two reasons: firstly, I wrote the outline plan in org
anyway and switching tools was irritating; second, I want both PDF and
HTML output. My tool of choice would have been latex and auctex where it
not for the HTML requirement.

Setting it up was a little difficult, but in general it's going okay
now. However, I am really missing the notion of master documents from
auctex. I have a main file which just includes other files each of
which contain a specific section.

Now, the export functionality works, but many org commands appear not
to work propertly. So, for example, footnotes adds new footnotes
starting from 1 in each file, but in the HTML export the earlier
footnotes get overwritten. Likewise, there is no good tool for putting
in crosslinks, compared to reftex in latex.

Am I missing things here? Or would it make more sense to move to latex,
with all the hacking that this entails for the HTML output.

Phil

Re: [O] Multi-file and master files

[Phillip Lord]

Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:

 Hi Phillip,

 phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 I might be misunderstanding your question here, so bear(?) with me.

 I think #+INCLUDE: $FILE should take care of what you want.
 Basically, at export time, INCLUDE is expanded to the content of $FILE
 in the buffer.  Footnotes should work.

So

master.org
  include  file1.org
  include  file2.org

Now, in file1.org add a footnote gets --

 [fn:1]


* Footnote

[fn:1] Footnote one


In file2.org add a footnote gets

 [fn:1]

* Foonote
 [fn:1] Footnote two

And footnote two gets lost.



I have a similar problem with hyperlinks. The normal store link
remembers the input.org file that the link is too. So, if in the
example, above I like between file2.org and file1.org using the Store
Link menu item, the HTML is wrong (since there is no file2.html
generated).

With latex and reftex, to put in a crossref, reftex knows about the
document structure and puts the hyperlink in as an internal reference,
since it will be internal when generated.

Phil

Re: [O] Multi-file and master files

[Phillip Lord]

Hmmm. I seem to have trashed by org install by loading from ELPA;
currently, interactively, I can't export at all.


debugger entered--Lisp error: (invalid-function org-with-silent-modifications)
  org-with-silent-modifications(nil)
  org-refresh-category-properties()
  org-get-category()

It's still working through by batch process which is using cask and
probably has a different version of org.

Is there a stable org-mode package repo? At the moment, both ELPA and
the org-mode repo appear to be bleeding egde...

Phil


Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:

 phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:

 Hi Phillip,

 phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 I might be misunderstanding your question here, so bear(?) with me.

 I think #+INCLUDE: $FILE should take care of what you want.
 Basically, at export time, INCLUDE is expanded to the content of $FILE
 in the buffer.  Footnotes should work.

 So

 master.org
   include  file1.org
   include  file2.org

 Now, in file1.org add a footnote gets --

  [fn:1]


 * Footnote

 [fn:1] Footnote one


 In file2.org add a footnote gets

  [fn:1]

 * Foonote
  [fn:1] Footnote two

 And footnote two gets lost.


 Here's a complete example that works as expected (footnotes and
 hyperlinks).  Perhaps one needs to specify :minlevel to get the
 desired output.  I don't know if this is desired behavior.  If not you
 can make another bug report.


$ for f in $(ls -A /tmp/include); do echo ; echo → $f ←; echo
 ~~~; echo ; cat /tmp/include/$f; done


 → c1.org ←
 ~~~

 * chapter 1
 txt1[fn:1]

 * Footnotes

 [fn:1] fn1


 → c2.org ←
 ~~~

 * chapter 2
 txt2[fn:1]

 * Footnotes

 [fn:1] fn2 



 → m.org ←
 ~~~


 #+OPTIONS: toc:nil
 #+TITLE: Overall title

 #+INCLUDE: /tmp/include/c1.org :minlevel 1 
 #+INCLUDE: /tmp/include/c2.org :minlevel 1

 * chapter 3
   Everything was said in [[*chapter 1]] and [[*chapter 2]]...

 → m.txt ←
 ~~~

   ━━━
OVERALL TITLE
   ━━━


 1 chapter 1
 ═══

   txt1[1]


 2 chapter 2
 ═══

   txt2[2]


 3 chapter 3
 ═══

   Everything was said in 1 and 2…



 Footnotes
 ─

 [1] fn1

 [2] fn2



 I have a similar problem with hyperlinks. The normal store link
 remembers the input.org file that the link is too. So, if in the
 example, above I like between file2.org and file1.org using the Store
 Link menu item, the HTML is wrong (since there is no file2.html
 generated).

 I was not able to reproduce.  But please make a receipt to get this
 behavior and it can be looked into.

 —Rasmus

-- 
Phillip Lord,   Phone: +44 (0) 191 222 7827
Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk
School of Computing Science,
http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
Room 914 Claremont Tower,   skype: russet_apples
Newcastle University,   twitter: phillord
NE1 7RU 

Re: [O] Multi-file and master files

[Phillip Lord]

Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
 phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 Hmmm. I seem to have trashed by org install by loading from ELPA;
 currently, interactively, I can't export at all.

 Do C-h f on some org functions and check that they are from the elpa
 installation.

 See also:

  http://orgmode.org/org.html#Installation

 Namely:
 Important: you need to do this in a session where no .org file has
 been visited, i.e. where no Org built-in function have been
 loaded. Otherwise autoload Org functions will mess up the
 installation.

 If you didn't adhere to this, maybe try to delete your
 ~/.emacs.d/elpa/org... and try installing again from emacs -q.

Oh dear, yes, forgot to restart after org updated.



 It's still working through by batch process which is using cask and
 probably has a different version of org.

 I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Cask is a command line tool that I use for doing installs from ELPA
while doing continuous integration, and some batch processes. So the
org-mode that I am using in my interactive emacs and the one that is
being used in my unit tests can be different.


 Is there a stable org-mode package repo? At the moment, both ELPA and
 the org-mode repo appear to be bleeding egde...

 Yeah, it's the maint branch in the git repo.  Are you sure that
 org-elpa isn't using maint?

   http://orgmode.org/elpa.html

from org/archive-contents

(1 (org  . [(20140929) ( ) Outline-based notes management and 
organizer tar])
   (org-plus-contrib . [(20140929) ( ) Outline-based notes management and 
organizer tar]))

from elpa/archive-contents

 (org .
  [(20140929)
   nil Outline-based notes management and organizer tar nil])


Far as I can tell both ELPA and the Org elpa repo have the same
version, and it's recent and fast updated. The Download and Install info
on orgmode.org says...

Stable version 8.2.7c (Jui. 2014) — tar.gz or zip (release notes).

Development version (cgit):

~$ git clone git://orgmode.org/org-mode.git

M-x list-packages RET (see Org ELPA) 

i.e. ELPA is on dailies.

Slightly confusing. I would have expected ELPA to do a stable install,
and then git for those wanting the bleeding edge. Is the only purpose
for the org-mode ELPA to hold plus-contrib which probably includes no
FSF assigned code?

I can do a git based install if I have to, but would rather not if I
don't!

 BTW: I now see the bug you are talking about (missing footnotes for
 second file) when I start with emacs -Q, i.e. using the org version
 shipped with Emacs.


Okay, I will check this more carefully!

Thanks for the help.

Phil

Re: [O] Multi-file and master files

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
 phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes:

 Slightly confusing. I would have expected ELPA to do a stable install,
 and then git for those wanting the bleeding edge. Is the only purpose
 for the org-mode ELPA to hold plus-contrib which probably includes no
 FSF assigned code?

 ELPA installs the stable (i.e. bugfix-only) branch of Org. Bleeding-edge
 is 8.3_beta.


And the orgmode.org ELPA? As far as I can see, they have the same files
in their org package (org-mode.org has org-plus-contrib as well).

Phil

Re: [O] Struggling with new exporter

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:

 Okay, I've done it this way. Took a bit of fiddling since I need the
 project-alist to work in different configurations (i.e. interactively,
 in batch and in batch on a CI machine). Also, the timestamp stuff
 confused me -- org was skipping publication, even though the output file
 had been deleted.

 You can force re-pulication.

Yes, I did. I was confused by the skipping though -- I was expecting
make like behaviour -- where the output was checked. Still, it's fixed
now.

 #+BIND: org-latex-custom-lang-environments ((clojure tawny))
 #+BIND: org-latex-listings t

 isn't working at the moment. Source listings are coming out in verbatim.
 Can I set this in the project-alist. From looking at org-latex-src-block
 it would appear not.

 On the development branch, you can add :latex-listings t property in
 your project definition. In maint branch, you may dynamically bind
 `org-latex-listings' around project publishing function call.

Okay.

Currently, it appears to be that the org-latex-publish-to-pdf isn't
respecting :publishing-directory in the project-alist, so I am
publishing to latex and compiling by hand from there. I had to do this
anyway, because in batch, emacs swallows the latex output which makes
errors very hard to detect.

Thanks for the help.

Phil

Re: [O] Struggling with new exporter

[Phillip Lord]

Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:

 [...]

 `org-html-publish-to-html' is not meant to be called directly, but
 rather used in a project definition as a :publishing-function value.

 Speaking of which, why don't you simply create a proper project-alist
 and call `org-publish' on it (interactively or not)?


Okay, I've done it this way. Took a bit of fiddling since I need the
project-alist to work in different configurations (i.e. interactively,
in batch and in batch on a CI machine). Also, the timestamp stuff
confused me -- org was skipping publication, even though the output file
had been deleted.

This part...

#+BIND: org-latex-custom-lang-environments ((clojure tawny))
#+BIND: org-latex-listings t

isn't working at the moment. Source listings are coming out in verbatim.
Can I set this in the project-alist. From looking at org-latex-src-block
it would appear not.

Phil

[O] Struggling with new exporter

[Phillip Lord]

I'm rather struggling with the new exporter. I fear I have used a
combination of old and new configuration which cannot be helping.
I am trying to get publishing working mostly in batch, so that it will
work as part of my continuous integration framework. But having it work
interactively would be nice also.

I have installed the org-mode daily from the Org ELPA. I have a file
called book.org, which also includes several other files.

I want to publish to HTML and PDF. It would be nice to publish to
some kind of chunked HTML also, as the file will get quite long, but for
the moment I can live with out this.


The headers look like this:

#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{tawny}
#+LATEX_HEADER: \lstnewenvironment{tawny}{\lstset{style=tawnystyle}}{}

#+BIND: org-publishing-directory ./exports
#+BIND: org-latex-custom-lang-environments ((clojure tawny))
#+BIND: org-latex-listings t

Tawny is my own package, and is present in the same location as the org
file. It provides the syntax highlighting support latex. 

Now, by original batch build commands looked like this...

(defun build/pdf ()
  (with-current-buffer
  (find-file-noselect build-source-file)
(org-export-as-pdf
 org-export-headline-levels)))

(defun build/html ()
  (init-faces)
  (setq htmlize-use-rgb-map 'force)
  (with-current-buffer
  (find-file-noselect build-source-file))
(org-export-as-html-batch org-export-headline-levels))

but these are using the old org-export functions.

My current version looks like this...

(defun build/html ()
  (init-faces)
  (setq htmlize-use-rgb-map 'force)
  (with-current-buffer
  (find-file-noselect build-source-file))
  (org-html-publish-to-html
   ;; publishing plist
   nil
   ;; output file name
   book.html
   ;; directory
   exports))

Which is crashing with:

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error `org-publish-cache-get' called, but no 
cache present)
  signal(error (`org-publish-cache-get' called, but no cache present))
  error(`org-publish-cache-get' called, but no cache present)

Interactively, the publishing works BUT the bind forms appear to do
nothing. My source code is coming up verbatim and the publishing
directory is being ignored.

Any help gratefully recieved!

Phil