Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Bruno Barbier]

Hi Max,

Max Nikulin  writes:

> I am trying to determine if it is difficult to get mid scheme working 
> system-wide and emacs-wide on windows. If not, I would just add your 
> example "[[mid:$msgid$][$author_name$: $subject$ ($date_iso$)]]" to the 
> remark related to copying Message-ID in the existing text and corrected 
> a bit a note on obsolete thunderlink.

After asking Thunderbird to register itself as the default mail
application, "mid:" seems to be working from everywhere.

I tested with a command like:

 start "mid:63dd2b57.gle.com"

And, I also tested:

 (browse-url-default-windows-browser "mid:63dd2b5google.com")

That's way better than a hard-coded call to `start-process' indeed.

Thanks a lot,

Bruno

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Max Nikulin]

On 03/02/2023 22:42, Bruno Barbier wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:

(with-eval-after-load 'ol
(org-link-set-parameters
 "mid"
 :follow (lambda (url  arg)
   (browse-url (concat "mid:" url) arg

Thunderbird opens mid: links in new message display tab or window.

Yes. If `browse-url' knows how to open Thunderbird (mine didn't).


On windows I expect fallback to `browse-url-default-windows-browser` by 
default. Are you able to open mid: links from e.g. cmd.exe?


open "mid:63dd2b57.050a0220.ed66f.0...@mx.google.com"

Looking into https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1696218
"Thunderbird displays the dialog for default application after each startup"
and the patch, I expect that thunderbird on windows can register 
protocol handler for the "mid" scheme.


Unsure however if the following entries in advanced preferences are 
relevant:


network.protocol-handler.expose.mid true
network.protocol-handler.external.mid   false

I have never debugged protocol handlers on windows. I would compare 
"mailto" and "mid" entries in the registry


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/80650/how-do-i-register-a-custom-url-protocol-in-windows


How do you think we should proceed to update the wiki ?


I am trying to determine if it is difficult to get mid scheme working 
system-wide and emacs-wide on windows. If not, I would just add your 
example "[[mid:$msgid$][$author_name$: $subject$ ($date_iso$)]]" to the 
remark related to copying Message-ID in the existing text and corrected 
a bit a note on obsolete thunderlink. If thunderbird still has issues 
with registering global mid: handler then your snippet with 
`start-process' should be added.


Maybe I just have gone too far trying to add "right" recommendation.

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Bruno Barbier]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 02/02/2023 13:04, Bruno Barbier wrote:
>> As it's still not clear to me how to configure browse-url, I'm still relying
>> on start-process.
>
> Bruno, it seems I completely confused you by my comments. I am sorry for 
> that.

I was confused way before, trying to assemble a simple non-obsolete, not
OS specific method. No problem ;-)

> Does the method currently suggested by FAQ works for you? My particular 
> interest caused by your words that you use Thunderbird on Windows:
>
> (with-eval-after-load 'ol
>(org-link-set-parameters
> "mid"
> :follow (lambda (url  arg)
>   (browse-url (concat "mid:" url) arg
>
> Thunderbird opens mid: links in new message display tab or window.
Yes. If `browse-url' knows how to open Thunderbird (mine didn't).

> Does cb_thunderlink behave in the same way or it switches to proper
> folder and selects the message in the list of messages, so it appears
> in 3 pane view making other messages from the same thread directly
> accessible?

AFAIK, cb_thunderlink behaves like Thunderbird to open messages. Once
the message is displayed, you have to click in Thunderbird to see it in
its folder or in its conversation. That's why I removed my
cb_thunderlink native application; I will use only the add-on from now
on.

My own configuration is now a lot simpler. Thanks!


How do you think we should proceed to update the wiki ?


Bruno

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Max Nikulin]

On 02/02/2023 13:04, Bruno Barbier wrote:

As it's still not clear to me how to configure browse-url, I'm still relying
on start-process.


Bruno, it seems I completely confused you by my comments. I am sorry for 
that.


Does the method currently suggested by FAQ works for you? My particular 
interest caused by your words that you use Thunderbird on Windows:


(with-eval-after-load 'ol
  (org-link-set-parameters
   "mid"
   :follow (lambda (url  arg)
 (browse-url (concat "mid:" url) arg

Thunderbird opens mid: links in new message display tab or window. Does 
cb_thunderlink behave in the same way or it switches to proper folder 
and selects the message in the list of messages, so it appears in 3 pane 
view making other messages from the same thread directly accessible?

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Bruno Barbier]

Hi Max,

Max Nikulin  writes:

> The author suggests to install from github assets instead of official 
> add-on catalog for some reason. Perhaps it is just survived since times 
> when cb_thunderlink was not published yet.

My new version instructs to install the add-on from Thunderbird, with no
OS installation. It's simpler and safer.

>
> My idea was to push '("\\`mid:" . custom/browse-url-mid) to 
> `browse-url-handlers' having (untested)
>
> (defun custom/browse-url-mid (url  _ignored)
>(browse-url
> (replace-regexp-in-string "\\`mid:" "thunderlink:/message-id=" url)))
>
> I am unsure concerning double slash after protocol since host name 
> expected after double slash. At least KDE may try to resolve hostname 
> and to distort URI. I hope, Message-ID never contains characters that 
> may require percent encoding when used in query parameter value.
>
> `browse-url-xdg-open' had a lot of revisions before current 
> `call-process' settled inside. It is the reason why I will prefer to 
> avoid explicit calls to `start-process' (alternatives known to me are 
> even worse) and to delegate as much as possible to `browse-url'.

My new version instructs to use standard "mid:" by just running Thunderbird.


> Since you suggest thunderlink: links instead of built-in mid:

I didn't realize that Thunderbird allows to open "mid:". I've simplified
the method.

I'm now using =cb_thunderlink= just to answer the following question, that
currently is on the wiki page:

  you need to copy the value of the Message-ID
  header, it should be possible with some add-on.

i.e. cb_thunderlink allows to build a full org link (link + description).

As it's still not clear to me how to configure browse-url, I'm still relying
on start-process.

See a new version of the patch.

Bruno

>From 89cef9d7acd85828ddfbb1375fac1e805bd03cea Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Bruno BARBIER 
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 20:33:22 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] org-faq: links with thunderbird: Add cb_thunderlink

---
 org-faq.org | 36 
 1 file changed, 36 insertions(+)

diff --git a/org-faq.org b/org-faq.org
index 0410d368..4c2d0c8f 100644
--- a/org-faq.org
+++ b/org-faq.org
@@ -2051,6 +2051,42 @@ so the following recipe is obsolete:
 Notice that this link uses Message-ID to reference a particular
 message as well.
 
+*** Using the =cb_thunderlink= add-on
+The add-on =cb_thunderlink= for Thunderbird allows to generate direct
+links from emails inside Thunderbird. You can then teach org to repon
+these links.
+
+  1. In Thunderbird, install the =cb_thunderlink= add-on.
+
+  2. In the options page of the =cb_thunderlink= add-on, add a new link
+ type, name it =org= with the following value:
+
+  #+begin_example
+  [[mid:$msgid$][$author_name$: $subject$ ($date_iso$)]]
+  #+end_example
+
+  3. In your emacs init file, add the following lines:
+  #+begin_src elisp
+  (defvar thunderbird-app nil
+"The absolute path to your thunderbird application.")
+
+  (defun thunderbird-message-with-id (message-id)
+"Open the given email. MESSAGE-ID is the message id."
+(start-process "thunderbird" " *thunderbird*"
+   thunderbird-app
+   (concat "mid:" message-id)))
+
+  (org-link-set-parameters "mid" :follow 'thunderbird-open-message-with-id)
+  #+end_src
+
+
+In Thunderbird, to copy a link to an email into the clipboard, open
+the contextual menu, click the =cb_thunderlink= entry and choose the
+entry named =org=. Then paste the link in your org file, and, click it
+to re-open the email.
+
+
+
 * Plain Lists
   :PROPERTIES:
   :CUSTOM_ID: Plain-Lists
-- 
2.39.1

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Max Nikulin]

On 02/02/2023 01:16, Bruno Barbier wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:


On 01/02/2023 02:56, Bruno Barbier wrote:
Is it intentional that you and the linked page avoid cb_thunderlink page
on the official add-on site?
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-us/thunderbird/addon/cb_thunderlink/


No. But visiting the author site being mandatory to install it, I
thought it was simpler to point directly there.


The author suggests to install from github assets instead of official 
add-on catalog for some reason. Perhaps it is just survived since times 
when cb_thunderlink was not published yet.



+#+begin_src elisp
+(defvar cbthunderlink-app nil
+  "The full path where you've installed your cb_thunderlink application.")
+
+(defun cbthunderlink-open (message-id)
+  "Open the given email. MESSAGE-ID is the message id."
+  (start-process "cb_thunderlink" " *cb_thunderlink*"

--^


Yes. This is a buffer that is uninteresting to the user, see:


Thank you for clarification, I forgot about it.


in both cases it promises to register thunderlink:// and
cbthunderlink:// handlers. From my point of view it may be a reason to
take advantage of `browse-url' package. It should allow to avoid
explicit code to start process and to delegate the task to this package
and to handle mid: links by `goto-address-mode' in non-org buffers.

...

I'm not using `browse-url' (except for web pages) and I wasn't aware of
`goto-address-mode'.


My idea was to push '("\\`mid:" . custom/browse-url-mid) to 
`browse-url-handlers' having (untested)


(defun custom/browse-url-mid (url  _ignored)
  (browse-url
   (replace-regexp-in-string "\\`mid:" "thunderlink:/message-id=" url)))

I am unsure concerning double slash after protocol since host name 
expected after double slash. At least KDE may try to resolve hostname 
and to distort URI. I hope, Message-ID never contains characters that 
may require percent encoding when used in query parameter value.


`browse-url-xdg-open' had a lot of revisions before current 
`call-process' settled inside. It is the reason why I will prefer to 
avoid explicit calls to `start-process' (alternatives known to me are 
even worse) and to delegate as much as possible to `browse-url'.



By the way, if cb_thunderlink is more convenient than built-in way to
handle mid: links in thunderbird then support of mid: URI protocol is a
valid feature request for cb_thunderlink.


I'm not sure to understand. The `cb_thunderlink' add-on allow to build
the link in one click from inside Thunderbird; that the part that I find
really useful. And if Thunderbird is able to open an email from its
"mid:" URL, the prefered method should probably be to install only the
add-on inside Thunderbird, and use Thunderbird to reopen the "mid:" link.


Since you suggest thunderlink: links instead of built-in mid: (already 
described in FAQ), I assume that the former approach has some advantage 
over the latter. Nobody forbids to have several handlers for some 
protocol and to let user decide which one their prefer, built-in or 
cb_thunderlink. If cb_thunderlink configures mid: handler then it will 
become available for configuration at the level of desktop environment.

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Bruno Barbier]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 01/02/2023 02:56, Bruno Barbier wrote:
> Is it intentional that you and the linked page avoid cb_thunderlink page 
> on the official add-on site?
> https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-us/thunderbird/addon/cb_thunderlink/

No. But visiting the author site being mandatory to install it, I
thought it was simpler to point directly there.

>> +To install the =cb_thunderlink=, see this web page:
>> +
>> +   https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation?with_menu=1
>> +
>> +You need to install both the add-on and the OS integration.
>
> Often I prefer to see URL I am going to visit, however in this case I 
> would consider in-text link with description text hiding the address.

ok.

>> +#+begin_src elisp
>> +(defvar cbthunderlink-app nil
>> +  "The full path where you've installed your cb_thunderlink application.")
>> +
>> +(defun cbthunderlink-open (message-id)
>> +  "Open the given email. MESSAGE-ID is the message id."
>> +  (start-process "cb_thunderlink" " *cb_thunderlink*"
> --^

Yes. This is a buffer that is uninteresting to the user, see:

  (info "(elisp) Buffer Names")



> is it intentional space?
>> + cbthunderlink-app
>> + (concat "thunderlink://messageid=" message-id)))
>> +(org-add-link-type "mid" 'org-email-open)
>> +#+end_src
>
> I am in doubts if `org-add-link-type' should be recommended since
>
> (make-obsolete 'org-add-link-type "use `org-link-set-parameters' 
> instead." "9.0")

Oops. Right. I should change that, thanks (and use my new function name
`cbthunderlink-open', not the old one `org-email-open').

>
> I checked
> https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation/windows
> https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation/linux
> in both cases it promises to register thunderlink:// and 
> cbthunderlink:// handlers. From my point of view it may be a reason to 
> take advantage of `browse-url' package. It should allow to avoid 
> explicit code to start process and to delegate the task to this package 
> and to handle mid: links by `goto-address-mode' in non-org buffers.

That is what I first thought. But, I couldn't find an Emacs function
that would pass that URL to the OS desktop, asking it to open the
document.

I'm not using `browse-url' (except for web pages) and I wasn't aware of
`goto-address-mode'.

> By the way, if cb_thunderlink is more convenient than built-in way to 
> handle mid: links in thunderbird then support of mid: URI protocol is a 
> valid feature request for cb_thunderlink.

I'm not sure to understand. The `cb_thunderlink' add-on allow to build
the link in one click from inside Thunderbird; that the part that I find
really useful. And if Thunderbird is able to open an email from its
"mid:" URL, the prefered method should probably be to install only the
add-on inside Thunderbird, and use Thunderbird to reopen the "mid:" link.

>
> Let's wait several days, there is a chance that somebody else will add 
> more comments.

ok. Thanks for your comments.

Bruno

Re: PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Max Nikulin]

On 01/02/2023 02:56, Bruno Barbier wrote:

I've got an initial draft. It's not exactly what I'm using, as I tried
to make the configuration OS agnostic. And I'm using Thunderbird only
for accounts where I'm forced to use Win32 (else, I'm using notmuch).


Thank you, Bruno.

Is it intentional that you and the linked page avoid cb_thunderlink page 
on the official add-on site?

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-us/thunderbird/addon/cb_thunderlink/


+To install the =cb_thunderlink=, see this web page:
+
+   https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation?with_menu=1
+
+You need to install both the add-on and the OS integration.


Often I prefer to see URL I am going to visit, however in this case I 
would consider in-text link with description text hiding the address.



+#+begin_src elisp
+(defvar cbthunderlink-app nil
+  "The full path where you've installed your cb_thunderlink application.")
+
+(defun cbthunderlink-open (message-id)
+  "Open the given email. MESSAGE-ID is the message id."
+  (start-process "cb_thunderlink" " *cb_thunderlink*"

--^
is it intentional space?

+ cbthunderlink-app
+ (concat "thunderlink://messageid=" message-id)))
+(org-add-link-type "mid" 'org-email-open)
+#+end_src


I am in doubts if `org-add-link-type' should be recommended since

(make-obsolete 'org-add-link-type "use `org-link-set-parameters' 
instead." "9.0")


I checked
https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation/windows
https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation/linux
in both cases it promises to register thunderlink:// and 
cbthunderlink:// handlers. From my point of view it may be a reason to 
take advantage of `browse-url' package. It should allow to avoid 
explicit code to start process and to delegate the task to this package 
and to handle mid: links by `goto-address-mode' in non-org buffers.


By the way, if cb_thunderlink is more convenient than built-in way to 
handle mid: links in thunderbird then support of mid: URI protocol is a 
valid feature request for cb_thunderlink.


Let's wait several days, there is a chance that somebody else will add 
more comments.

PATCH for worg about cb_thunderlink (Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch))

[Bruno Barbier]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> Bruno, as a cb_thunderbird user, would you like to share your experience 
> and to expand
>
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#orgc6f8478
> 10.8. Can I create links to Thunderbirds emails?
>
> by adding a brief description of this add-on?

Hi Max,

I've got an initial draft. It's not exactly what I'm using, as I tried
to make the configuration OS agnostic. And I'm using Thunderbird only
for accounts where I'm forced to use Win32 (else, I'm using notmuch).

I just added a section about cb_thunderlink. I'm not sure how to
organize things with the other information about Thunderbird. And, I'm
not sure about how to properly format names, etc. for the wiki.

See the attached patch.

What do you think ?

Bruno


>From 4beb7ee307544be868a0d058763aa61558f0701b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Bruno BARBIER 
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 20:33:22 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] org-faq: links with thunderbird: Add cb_thunderlink

---
 org-faq.org | 48 
 1 file changed, 48 insertions(+)

diff --git a/org-faq.org b/org-faq.org
index 0410d368..1aaa3f2a 100644
--- a/org-faq.org
+++ b/org-faq.org
@@ -2051,6 +2051,54 @@ so the following recipe is obsolete:
 Notice that this link uses Message-ID to reference a particular
 message as well.
 
+*** Using the =cb_thunderlink= add-on
+The add-on =cb_thunderlink= for Thunderbird allows:
+   1. to generate direct links from emails inside Thunderbird,
+   2. and to reopen the emails following these links.
+
+ Installation
+To install the =cb_thunderlink=, see this web page:
+
+   https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink/installation?with_menu=1
+
+You need to install both the add-on and the OS integration.
+
+Once everything is installed, follow the steps below to make org
+compatible links in Thunderbird, and to teach org how to open these
+links.
+
+ Copying links from Thunderbird
+In Thunderbird, open the =Options= page for the =cb_thunderlink= add-on
+and add a new link type named =org= in the =Configurable links= section.
+
+#+begin_example
+[[mid:$msgid$][$author_name$: $subject$ ($date_iso$)]]
+#+end_example
+
+To get an org link for a given email, open the contextual menu, click
+the =cb_thunderlink= entry and choose the entry named =org=. This
+copies, into the clipboard, a link to this email; you can then paste
+it in Emacs.
+
+
+ Opening the emails from Emacs
+To teach org how to open these links, add the following lines in
+your configuration file, configuring the variable
+=cbthunderlink-app= to match your system.
+
+#+begin_src elisp
+(defvar cbthunderlink-app nil
+  "The full path where you've installed your cb_thunderlink application.")
+
+(defun cbthunderlink-open (message-id)
+  "Open the given email. MESSAGE-ID is the message id."
+  (start-process "cb_thunderlink" " *cb_thunderlink*"
+ cbthunderlink-app
+ (concat "thunderlink://messageid=" message-id)))
+(org-add-link-type "mid" 'org-email-open)
+#+end_src
+
+
 * Plain Lists
   :PROPERTIES:
   :CUSTOM_ID: Plain-Lists
-- 
2.39.1

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jean Louis  writes:

>> Try to derive list of supported schemes from `browse-url-handlers'.
>
> browse-url-handlers ➜ (("gemini:" . elpher-go) ("gopher:"
> . elpher-handler-go) ("about:" . hyperscope-about) ("hyperscope:"
> . hyperscope-url) ("e2dk://" . amule-handler))
>
> it is user option to be customized.
>
> It is obvious that my idea that URL schemes should be unified may be
> reasonable, but there is not enough programming functionality in Emacs
> to allow it to be very deterministic. And thus Org has to make it's
> own URL handling. That is how I understand, correct me if this is
> wrong.

Kind of. `browse-url-handlers' may have predicate as a function. Then,
or may need to run all the predicates any time we need to know if given
url-looking string is a link or not and what type of link. Considering
that such information is needed, among other times, during
fontification, I doubt that we can practically support
`browse-url-handlers'. Or we can make Org unusable.

`browse-url-handlers' is designed in a way that is to be used on demand
only - when the user issues an interactive command.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Max Nikulin  [2023-01-27 18:22]:
> I was unsure if goto-mode is a typo or some 3rd party package. Have
> you written that you are aware which way it is implemented?

I am aware of inconsistencies, and I wish Emacs would have it
centralized.

> List of recognized protocols is not a user option, it is hard-coded
> and unrelated to the browse-url-handlers:
> 
> defvar thing-at-point-uri-schemes
> 
> the list is rather long.

Yes, there are official, unofficial, and just that it is not user
option means nothing much, I am adding to that list what I wish by
using `add-to-list' function, as just as `load-path' variable cannot
be customized with "customize", it can still be changed with
`add-to-list'.

> Developer must consider other features that may be affected by demanded
> changes. False positives are acceptable for thingatpt and goto-address-mode.
> For Org mode balance is different. Too greedy regexp to recognize links may
> have detrimental effect on export and publish, not to mention that links may
> need special treatment. In addition Ihor mentioned fuzzy links.

I got it.

How I understand it, Org should be more deterministic and for that
can't use other available libraries.

> > Org should now hard code new way of opening URL schemes, but use Emacs
> > settings.
> 
> Try to derive list of supported schemes from `browse-url-handlers'.

browse-url-handlers ➜ (("gemini:" . elpher-go) ("gopher:"
. elpher-handler-go) ("about:" . hyperscope-about) ("hyperscope:"
. hyperscope-url) ("e2dk://" . amule-handler))

it is user option to be customized.

It is obvious that my idea that URL schemes should be unified may be
reasonable, but there is not enough programming functionality in Emacs
to allow it to be very deterministic. And thus Org has to make it's
own URL handling. That is how I understand, correct me if this is
wrong.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

Bruno, as a cb_thunderbird user, would you like to share your experience 
and to expand


https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#orgc6f8478
10.8. Can I create links to Thunderbirds emails?

by adding a brief description of this add-on?

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Bruno Barbier]

Max Nikulin  writes:


> Notice that you can use mid:$msgid$ instead of email:$msgid$.
>
>  thunderbird 'mid:tqr8et$mrc$1...@ciao.gmane.io'

Yes. I realized that from previous emails in this thread. I should be
using 'mid' from now on. Thanks.

> The main point 
> of orco is opposite mapping. It makes possible to open in emacs the 
> location in file that has link to current mail message.

That's definitely a nice feature. Thanks for sharing the link to this
extension.

Bruno

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 28/01/2023 01:15, Bruno Barbier wrote:



If Message-ID still can be decoded from cb_thinderlink URIs than it
should be possible adapt orco to handle such links as well.


I'm using plain Message-IDs to identify my emails, and, when choosing an
email client, that's really the first feature that I'm checking.

In Thunderbird, in the cb_thunderlink config (v 1.6.0), I'm using a link format
that is compatible with the old thunderlink extension:

  [[email:$msgid$][$author_name$: $subject$ ($date_iso$)]]


Notice that you can use mid:$msgid$ instead of email:$msgid$.

thunderbird 'mid:tqr8et$mrc$1...@ciao.gmane.io'

opens the message in a new tab or a new window. Sometimes separate tab 
is inconvenient, but context menu has "show message in containing 
folder" item. ESR releases 91 and 102 support it out of the box. Whether 
thunderbird.desktop contains "x-scheme-handler/mid;" in the MimeType 
parameter (and so desktop-wide integration out of the box) depends on 
particular Linux distribution. For emacs it means that (browse-url 
"mid:tqr8et$mrc$1...@ciao.gmane.io") should just work.



To open a message whose "Message-ID" is 'message-id', org just
requests my operating system to open a link like:

  (concat "thunderlink://messageid=" message-id)


This approach can be used with "mid:" scheme for links in Org files as well.


It looks like thunderbird allows to search for Message-ID (see
headerMessageId):


https://webextension-api.thunderbird.net/en/stable/messages.html#messages-query

and there is no warning about using it. I'm guessing that cb_thunderlink

is using this.


There was a lag between thunderbird-78 and some later version when there 
was no easy access to Message-ID header in add-on API. Likely it is a 
reason why cb_thunderlink has a warning that such links might be broken 
in future. I have not checked if standard API or custom low level code 
is currently used in cb_thuderlink for lookup by Message-ID.


In orco standard messages.query() is used to search for Message-IDs 
extracted from links, e.g. 
https://list.orgmode.org/t7q766$m5k$1...@ciao.gmane.io It is convenient to 
see message subject and date without leaving thunderbird. The main point 
of orco is opposite mapping. It makes possible to open in emacs the 
location in file that has link to current mail message.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Bruno Barbier]

Bruno Barbier  writes:

> Max Nikulin  writes:

>> If Message-ID still can be decoded from cb_thinderlink URIs than it 
>> should be possible adapt orco to handle such links as well.

I'm using plain Message-IDs to identify my emails, and, when choosing an
email client, that's really the first feature that I'm checking.

In Thunderbird, in the cb_thunderlink config (v 1.6.0), I'm using a link format
that is compatible with the old thunderlink extension:

 [[email:$msgid$][$author_name$: $subject$ ($date_iso$)]]

 
To open a message whose "Message-ID" is 'message-id', org just
requests my operating system to open a link like:

 (concat "thunderlink://messageid=" message-id)


It looks like thunderbird allows to search for Message-ID (see
headerMessageId):

   
https://webextension-api.thunderbird.net/en/stable/messages.html#messages-query
   
and there is no warning about using it. I'm guessing that cb_thunderlink
is using this.

Hope this may help,

Bruno

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 27/01/2023 13:41, Jean Louis wrote:

* Max Nikulin [2023-01-26 19:21]:

On 25/01/2023 00:49, Jean Louis wrote:

When goto-mode works with mid: by me setting up browse-url-handlers,
then I have expected Org to work as well.


Do you mean `goto-address-mode'? Have you had a look into its
implementation?


I have already previously mentioned about it.


I was unsure if goto-mode is a typo or some 3rd party package. Have you 
written that you are aware which way it is implemented?


List of recognized protocols is not a user option, it is hard-coded and 
unrelated to the browse-url-handlers:


defvar thing-at-point-uri-schemes

the list is rather long.

On 25/01/2023 00:49, Jean Louis wrote:

Try to think from position of a developer.


From position of developer, developers shall ideally think of users,
and users think of the assistance of computer to users. 


Users appreciate developers who make their life easier.


Developer must consider other features that may be affected by demanded 
changes. False positives are acceptable for thingatpt and 
goto-address-mode. For Org mode balance is different. Too greedy regexp 
to recognize links may have detrimental effect on export and publish, 
not to mention that links may need special treatment. In addition Ihor 
mentioned fuzzy links.


On 27/01/2023 13:41, Jean Louis wrote:

In my opinion, features such as opening specific function on URI
scheme shall be unified in Emacs.


Generally agree, but browse-url should be ready to reuse its 
configuration in Org. I am afraid, it means less flexible browse-url.



Org should now hard code new way of opening URL schemes, but use Emacs
settings.


Try to derive list of supported schemes from `browse-url-handlers'.


And I am aware that it is late for such decision,


You may try to talk to `browse-url' developers if they are ready to make 
their package less flexible for the sake of Org mode.


And finally notice that goto-address-mode is unable to properly handle

(test https://orgmode.org)

it considers closing parenthesis as a part of the link. In addition 
there are disclaimers:


Customizations to this variable made after goto-addr is loaded
will have no effect.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Max Nikulin  [2023-01-26 19:21]:
> On 25/01/2023 00:49, Jean Louis wrote:
> > When goto-mode works with mid: by me setting up browse-url-handlers,
> > then I have expected Org to work as well.
> 
> Do you mean `goto-address-mode'? Have you had a look into its
> implementation?

I have already previously mentioned about it. 

In my opinion, features such as opening specific function on URI
scheme shall be unified in Emacs.

Org should now hard code new way of opening URL schemes, but use Emacs
settings.

And I am aware that it is late for such decision, historical decision
was individual based, when Org was not part of Emacs, and it will
break compatibility but then you could introduce option for people to
start changing slowly and integrating better with whole system.

-- 
Jean

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https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

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Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023, 13:18:49 CET schrieb Jean Louis:
> * AW  [2023-01-26 13:00]:
> > This is about a maildirs of kmail on my local machine. The E-Mails are
> > being indexed by akonadi on the side of kde-pim. But referring to a
> > certain E-Mail from orgmode with a kind of link fails, because I'd need
> > to got to the maildir and search for the specific E-Mail. kde-pim does
> > not offer an easy way to extract that or the message-ID.
> 
> How many Maildirs do you have?

One main, a hundred submaildirs.

> 
> and what does program:
> 
> akonadi_maildir_resource does?
> 
> Should it find e-mail?

Akonadi is a part of kde-pim.

> Without Akonadi:
> 
> 
> Solution may be simple without akonadi and external software.
> 
> It would be to provide main Maildir, then for program to find
> submaildirs, and to find Message ID in every e-mail, and record it,
> once per day, of course with e-mail file or folder location plus
> Message ID. This is simple program and can be done in shell or Emacs
> Lisp, collecting all Message IDs efficiently from every Maildir.
> 
> This program thus can be universal program, and then function can
> decide how to open e-mail, and it is just fine opening e-mail in Emacs
> as well.
> 
> Same program could be used to find e-mails by name or sender, or
> recipient.
Yes, that's what I'm doing with notmuch, thanks to the hint that ol-notmuch 
provides notmuch-search with message-ID. So far, my issue is solved. 

-- 

Regards,

Alexander

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* AW  [2023-01-26 13:00]:
> This is about a maildirs of kmail on my local machine. The E-Mails are being 
> indexed by akonadi on the side of kde-pim. But referring to a certain E-Mail 
> from orgmode with a kind of link fails, because I'd need to got to the 
> maildir 
> and search for the specific E-Mail. kde-pim does not offer an easy way to 
> extract that or the message-ID. 

How many Maildirs do you have?

and what does program:

akonadi_maildir_resource does?

Should it find e-mail?

Without Akonadi:


Solution may be simple without akonadi and external software.

It would be to provide main Maildir, then for program to find
submaildirs, and to find Message ID in every e-mail, and record it,
once per day, of course with e-mail file or folder location plus
Message ID. This is simple program and can be done in shell or Emacs
Lisp, collecting all Message IDs efficiently from every Maildir.

This program thus can be universal program, and then function can
decide how to open e-mail, and it is just fine opening e-mail in Emacs
as well.

Same program could be used to find e-mails by name or sender, or
recipient.

-- 
Jean

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In support of Richard M. Stallman
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Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/01/2023 00:49, Jean Louis wrote:

When goto-mode works with mid: by me setting up browse-url-handlers,
then I have expected Org to work as well.


Do you mean `goto-address-mode'? Have you had a look into its 
implementation?

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 26/01/2023 16:58, AW wrote:

This is about a maildirs of kmail on my local machine. The E-Mails are being
indexed by akonadi on the side of kde-pim.


Are you able to search messages through the KDE (global) dialog? Does it 
work if you try to find some Message-ID? Perhaps it is necessary to add 
more sources for searches in the dialog configuration. If Message-ID 
header is indexed then it might be possible to launch such search from Org.


Sorry, I do not use kmail or KDE indexers, so I am not enough motivated 
to check it myself. It just an idea, perhaps it leads to nothing.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

AW  writes:

>> > Well, M-x  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
>> > produces [No match].
>> 
>> This is not a command.
>> You need M-: (...
>
> Sorry, I'm a user, not much knowledge of elisp. However, the result now is 
> 'nil'. 

On my side, it returns nil and _also_ opens mid:... url in browser. It
might also display an app selection dialogue, depending on your DM.
Did anything like I described happen on your side?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023, 11:42:01 CET schrieb Dirk-Jan C. Binnema:
> Sorry if I'm repeating things earlier mentioned...
> 
> mu4e supports message-id links through org-mode, and I *extensively*
> use that my agenda / todo lists. E.g.,
>mu4e:msgid:CACwzTKkeyptMcOA=jq8y23948-fkyfkmtwu...@mail.gmail.com

Thank you, I'll have a look into this. Sounds good that you use it much.

> To make it work through browse-url (is that useful?) shouldn't be too
> hard to configure `browse-url-default-handlers' for that. For mu4e that
> could simply use `mu4e-org-open', except that mu4e uses `msgid' (a
> better name imho) rather than `mid'.

>From my point of view that's not necessary. I'd like to have link which opens 
an emacs buffer displaying the E-Mail. 

-- 

Regards,
Alexander

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023, 10:40:30 CET schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
> AW  writes:
> >> It is not up to Org. Try
> >> 
> >>  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
> >> 
> >> You will likely see nothing.
> > 
> > Well, M-x  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
> > produces [No match].
> 
> This is not a command.
> You need M-: (...

Sorry, I'm a user, not much knowledge of elisp. However, the result now is 
'nil'. 

> >> So, while Org may provide some limited help with mid:, as Max suggested,
> >> there is no way to guarantee that mid: links will work for all users
> >> without users hand-customizing how to open emails.
> >> 
> >> I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
> >> `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.
> > 
> > This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and
> > everybody
> > has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail
> > and saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that
> > bothered me for decades.
> 
> Well. The more widely used standard is Maildir - downloading emails from
> server to local machine. Emails are just files there that can be indexed
> by variety of mail client software.

This is about a maildirs of kmail on my local machine. The E-Mails are being 
indexed by akonadi on the side of kde-pim. But referring to a certain E-Mail 
from orgmode with a kind of link fails, because I'd need to got to the maildir 
and search for the specific E-Mail. kde-pim does not offer an easy way to 
extract that or the message-ID. 
> 
> The main question is which email clients actually support mid: links.
> notmuch does, but in non-standard way, without doing it system-wide.

And kmail obviously does not. OK, but since I installed notmuch, notmuch.el 
and ol-notmuch.el, I will have a look into using this. Thank you!

--

Regards,

Alexander

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/01/2023 00:49, Jean Louis wrote:

* Max Nikulin [2023-01-24 20:25]:

It reminds be complains by some person that Org must be able to recognize
any URL in free-form plain text just because there is a RFC describing
format of URL.


That person did not really propose to Org to do it, but to have Emacs
EWW to be customizable, so that any content type could be opened by
user's settings. You missed the point of it.


I had in mind another person:

Re: URLs with brackets not recognised. Wed, 12 May 2021 22:06:50 +0200.

I disagree. URLs are well-specified. Per RFC 3986, the characters
allowed in a URL are [A-Za-z0-9\-._~!$&'()*+,;=:@\/?]. Org mode should
implement proper URL detection, not asking its users "to give it some
hints" and using "a kind of heuristics". A string either is a valid URL
per the relevant RFCs or it is not.


You probably decided that I was writing about
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=58774
[WISH]: Let us make EWW browse WWW Org files correctly

That is from my point of view is an excellent example how to bury a 
valid feature request "allow me to do" by aggressive demand "it must be 
by default" disregarding unresolved security issues and by adding more 
noise by discussion of unrelated stuff (should Org files have text/... 
or application/... mime type).


Back to the topic, URI handling packages have incompatible features. It 
is the reason why users have to had explicit configuration.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 25/01/2023 00:32, Bruno Barbier wrote:


I'm using an extension for Thunderbird that allows to copy a direct link to a
message. I then paste it into a org file so that I can reopen the
message in one click:

https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink


Perhaps I found this add-on too early. I had a look into its code and 
decided to find another way. Another point is that I prefer to have 
Message-ID in links not obscured. Fortunately I noticed the issue 
dedicated to "mid:" in the bug tracker.


Some minor inconveniences exist, but I do not plan to discard mid: 
links. E.g. I can easily convert links to messages in this list between 
mid: and https://list.orgmode.org/


I decided that it should be convenient to have links from thunderbird to 
my notes. A proof of concept:


https://github.com/maxnikulin/orco/

Max Nikulin to emacs-orgmode. Org Column in Thunderbird. Wed, 8 Jun 2022 
20:11:33 +0700. https://list.orgmode.org/t7q766$m5k$1...@ciao.gmane.io


If Message-ID still can be decoded from cb_thinderlink URIs than it 
should be possible adapt orco to handle such links as well.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Ihor Radchenko  [2023-01-24 14:19]:
> mid: if a known standard, as Max pointed in the earlier message:
> 
> RFC 2392 - Content-ID and Message-ID Uniform Resource Locators. 1998
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2392

It is "proposed standard" and far from any ordinary use.

> It makes more sense than arbitrary ideas not known to anyone, even
> if they sound better for some users.

Not that I can agree as heavy user of e-mails.

mid: -- shall support IMAP, mbox, Maildir, file location in first
place.

Please think of 1998, that is year where majority of people used mbox,
which meaning was that all e-mails were (mostly) in single file. 

And even with that single file, users were to open that file to
request "mid". 

This implies that e-mail program had to know which file to open.

That is missing argument to that proposed standard, practically no
standard at all, laughable to say it is "standard".

mu, notmuch and Thunderbird all use index to search for Message-ID,
including online web clients.

But location is missing part as on user's computer there may be too
many mbox, Maildir files, mh, what else, and messages may be on IMAP
server. 

I cannot provide to myself "mid:" hyperlink without providing location
of Maildir file, if I am to use Mutt as e-mail client or any e-mail
program that does not have indexing built-in.

I have to specify file plus Message-ID.

That would mean something like 

mid:///home/data1/protected/Maildir/yanta...@posteo.net&87mtz84om9.fsf@localhost

because yanta...@posteo.net would be either mbox, Maildir or other
format.

I don't care for useless and never adopted standards from 1998. 

It is 2023.

-- 
Jean

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https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
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Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Ihor Radchenko  [2023-01-24 12:41]:
> > This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and everybody 
> > has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail 
> > and 
> > saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that bothered me 
> > for 
> > decades. 
> 
> Well. The more widely used standard is Maildir - downloading emails from
> server to local machine. Emails are just files there that can be indexed
> by variety of mail client software.

I have to give some corrections according to my knowledge.

Maildir is less used format, not widely used. Not even in GNU/Linux,
it is simply not default. I guess mbox format is much more used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox

And it is not related to how people download or not download
e-mails. And how server uses mail boxes is also independent of how
users use mailboxes.

E-mails are not "just files", they are pieces of informaton and if
they are stored as files depends of software. When e-mail is on
server, it may run different software storing e-mails in the databases
where database objects are not independent files for each e-mail, and
can't be manipulated as such.

And retrieving e-mails, while mostly in form of files, may be also in
form of a database objects. 

There is server side and client side software, they work independent
of each other and decide how to store e-mails. Or not store it at all
at client's computer.

To understand what is widely used e-mail file format, one has to see
what are widely used e-mail clients. 

Maybe this picture may help:
https://d27jswm5an3efw.cloudfront.net/app/uploads/2021/04/most-popular-email-clients-graph.jpeg

or this one:

https://www.oberlo.com/media/1673256706-most-used-email-clients-worldwide.png?fit=max=webp=1800

Those are by majority all web software clients.

No matter if statistics are right or wrong, not even Thunderbird is
there, and Thunderbird has Maildir only as experimental option.

And regarding indexing, many e-mail programs do not support indexing,
it is not at all their main purpose. They may retrieve e-mail, read,
reply, sort, delete, but indexing is often forgotten feature.

> The main question is which email clients actually support mid: links.
> notmuch does, but in non-standard way, without doing it system-wide.

notmuch is more indexing system, and programs working with notmuch may
be considered email clients.

Another e-mail indexing program is "mu" and I am sure it can search by
Message-ID: https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/ as notmuch never
worked on my computer. 

I can't verify it as I did not use index, being very efficient without
it due to method of sorting all e-mails per Maildir representing the
e-mail address.

Sadly mid: appear not to be supported by many software, just as many
software not supporting various URLs when they should. 

Let us not forget there are universal URL launchers, such as:

- exo-open from XFce

- xdg-open - opens a file or URL in the user's preferred application
  (Free Desktop

- kde-open from KDE

- rox -U -- may launch any type of URI handlers by user customization:
  https://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/book/export/html/163.html

And there are others, including browsers being mainly used to launch
any types of URI schemes.

Maybe you can see the pattern that there various launchers for URI
schemes and all of them allow users to specify which software to use,
and there are many browsers, majority of browsers follow the pattern
to allow users to specify how to open which URI scheme.

By seeing the pattern, you may see why is it useful. I hope so.

And then I hope you will not keep URI handlers hard coded, but allow
Org users to decide which launcher, browser, or what to use on Org
hyperlinks.

When I think of "mid:" I think of "Message-ID: " and that is generally
not hard to find in various e-mail formats.

In Emacs, for mbox files, it would be something as:
(search-forward "87y2e2bgzh@example.com") followed by extracting
and displaying of the found e-mail.

With Maildirs it would be `grep' search on Maildir folder, it is
almost instant on hundreds of e-mails.

Of course scalability is a problem when using `grep' as with too many
e-mails, it would last long.

That is why both for mh, mbox, Maildir and other folders, one shall
always specify the folder location.

Without folder location mid:123 alone would require indexer to find
the Message-ID.

That is why it would not be for Org to specify how mid links are
opened but for user to customize it.

As user may have mid:// format or only mid: or maybe
mid://file/message-id format, depending of the software.

That Thunderbird uses only mid:message-id format is definitely unique
and not ordinary as generally e-mail clients do not support it.

Additionally, mid: need not specify only local file, it could specify
IMAP as well mid:imaps://example.com/INBOX

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Max Nikulin  [2023-01-24 20:25]:
> On 24/01/2023 01:37, Jean Louis wrote:
> > 
> > All URLs defined by Emacs that are to be run by browse-url in Org
> > shall be allowed by org, to let the Emacs settings pass through.
> > 
> > And not to hard code it in Org.
> 
> It reminds be complains by some person that Org must be able to recognize
> any URL in free-form plain text just because there is a RFC describing
> format of URL.

That person did not really propose to Org to do it, but to have Emacs
EWW to be customizable, so that any content type could be opened by
user's settings. You missed the point of it.

> Try to think from position of a developer.

>From position of developer, developers shall ideally think of users,
and users think of the assistance of computer to users. 

Users appreciate developers who make their life easier.

> An entry may be added to `browse-url-handlers' after loading of ol.
> 
> org-link and browse-url are so flexible that it would be hard to reliably
> match their entries taking into account different set of supported features.
> The former allows e.g. fuzzy search links, the latter something similar to
> Android deep links.

That means Org authors missed to use Emacs built-ins. 

> I have no idea which way you configured mid: links in Org, but this thread
> contains 5 lines that successfully works for me.

When goto-mode works with mid: by me setting up browse-url-handlers,
then I have expected Org to work as well. 

But I do not rely on Org mode to use browse-url, rather I rely on Org
using elisp: links.

That is not really "mid:" but it will work for long time and be
independent of Org developers' decisions.

-- 
Jean

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https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

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Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Bruno Barbier  [2023-01-24 20:31]:
> > [[elisp:(my-handler "I am ok here")][my handler]]
> 
> Org also allows the user to define his own link types:
> 
>  (info "(org) Adding Hyperlink Types")

I understand. 

You see, Org is part of Emacs, me I expect that when I follow Emacs
Instructions that Org will be using Emacs settings, but it follows
it's own settings.

I mean these settings:

browse-url-handlers is a variable defined in ‘browse-url.el’.

Its value is
(("gemini:" . elpher-go)
 ("gopher:" . elpher-handler-go)
 ("about:" . hyperscope-about)
 ("mid:" . my-handler)
 ("hyperscope:" . hyperscope-url)
 ("e2dk://" . amule-handler))
Original value was nil

An alist with elements of the form (REGEXP-OR-PREDICATE . HANDLER).
Each REGEXP-OR-PREDICATE is matched against the URL to be opened
in turn and the first match’s HANDLER is invoked with the URL.

A HANDLER must be a function with the same arguments as
‘browse-url’.

If no REGEXP-OR-PREDICATE matches, the same procedure is
performed with the value of ‘browse-url-default-handlers’.  If
there is also no match, the URL is opened using the value of
‘browse-url-browser-function’.

  This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
  version 28.1 of Emacs.
  You can customize this variable.

-- 
Jean

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Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Max Nikulin  [2023-01-24 18:52]:
> > I am mostly concerned that channelling mid: links to browse-url will not
> > work (open empty page in browser) in most cases. This is more confusing
> > than not having mid: link handler at all.
> 
> For me it may be a reason to not enable to enable "mid:" links by default,
> but I am still considering `browse-url' as the proper handler.

You should neither enable, neither disable opening of any links on the
Org level except maybe Emacs Lisp links.

Otherwise let users enable or disable what they want.

> Code to determine handler is platform-specific, e.g. for Linux
> 
> xdg-mime query default x-scheme-handler/mid
> xdg-settings get default-url-scheme-handler mid
> 
> The latter actually calls the former. I would avoid both variants during
> load time.
> 
> If you get browser fallback then you are advanced enough user to avoid a DE.
> Gnome shows application selection dialog, KDE throws an error
> window.

Let users open Hyperlinks with any browser or function how they want.

I am aware that Org has that mixed hyperlink types as explained in:

(info "(org) External Links") 

and when I say "mixed" it does not support the expected standard of
URI Schemes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_URI_schemes) as it
introduces various Org related hyperlinks.

At this point, after so many years, nobody recognizes that such
capricious single user decision does not scale well for broad public.

And now because all the users are entangled using non-standard URI
schemes, it is very hard to switch, as it would break compatibility.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Ihor Radchenko  [2023-01-24 12:43]:
> Max Nikulin  writes:
> 
> > On 23/01/2023 17:40, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> >> I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
> >> `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.
> >
> > Do you know an alternative? Org already uses this package to open some 
> > types of links. It allows to have the same handler for all Emacs 
> > packages. I do not think that Org-specific handler would be better.
> 
> I am mostly concerned that channelling mid: links to browse-url will not
> work (open empty page in browser) in most cases. This is more confusing
> than not having mid: link handler at all.

Thanks.

It does not mean that browse-url "will not work" but that user did not
customize content types.

You need not think what users will customize neither you can't know what future 
brings.

Do you see that any browser could have the same strategy to maybe
forbid various URLs, but browsers mostly adopted the strategy to let
user customize how to open some URL.

>From Org side that is all, you do not hard code how to open various
links, but there shall be customization for users to decide how to
open content types.

That is what other browsers do as well.

You don't need to think of it, as you cannot control other program
from Org. 

Please allow users to set URL handlers how they want. That is
customary for decades.

Other program must know how to handle hyperlinks, if to report error,
or to warn user or to ask user how to open such URLs.

For example Elinks with

$ elinks mid:123

"This URL contains a protocol not yet known by ELinks. You can
configure an external handler for it through the options system."

or for example Firefox:

"Firefox doesn’t know how to open this address, because one of the
following protocols (mid) isn’t associated with any program or is not
allowed in this context.

You might need to install other software to open this address."

It is for me as user to set it, and not for Org to think how user is
to customize or use other software.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Bruno Barbier]

Jean Louis  writes:

> And not to hard code it in Org.
>
> To circumvent hard coding in Org, one can always use elisp: type of links:
>
> (defun my-handler (mid)
>  (message mid))
>
> [[elisp:(my-handler "I am ok here")][my handler]]

Org also allows the user to define his own link types:

 (info "(org) Adding Hyperlink Types")


Bruno

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Bruno Barbier]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> Thunderbird allows to save messages as an .eml file and to open it by
> thunderbird /tmp/test.eml

I'm using an extension for Thunderbird that allows to copy a direct link to a
message. I then paste it into a org file so that I can reopen the
message in one click:

   https://camiel.bouchier.be/en/cb_thunderlink


Bruno

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 24/01/2023 01:37, Jean Louis wrote:


All URLs defined by Emacs that are to be run by browse-url in Org
shall be allowed by org, to let the Emacs settings pass through.

And not to hard code it in Org.


It reminds be complains by some person that Org must be able to 
recognize any URL in free-form plain text just because there is a RFC 
describing format of URL.


Try to think from position of a developer.

An entry may be added to `browse-url-handlers' after loading of ol.

org-link and browse-url are so flexible that it would be hard to 
reliably match their entries taking into account different set of 
supported features. The former allows e.g. fuzzy search links, the 
latter something similar to Android deep links.



Configuring of "mid:" links requires just a few lines in init.el and they
are quite usual for custom links.


I have configured it, it does not work in Org


I have no idea which way you configured mid: links in Org, but this 
thread contains 5 lines that successfully works for me.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Dirk-Jan C. Binnema]

On Tuesday Jan 24 2023, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

>> To make it work through browse-url (is that useful?) shouldn't be too
>> hard to configure `browse-url-default-handlers' for that. For mu4e that
>> could simply use `mu4e-org-open', except that mu4e uses `msgid' (a
>> better name imho) rather than `mid'.
>
> mid: if a known standard, as Max pointed in the earlier message:
>
> RFC 2392 - Content-ID and Message-ID Uniform Resource Locators. 1998
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2392
>
> It makes more sense than arbitrary ideas not known to anyone, even if
> they sound better for some users.

Thanks, no arguing with that, at least not without involving a
time-machine.

Kind regards,
Dirk.

-- 
Dirk-Jan C. Binnema  Helsinki, Finland
e:d...@djcbsoftware.nl   w:www.djcbsoftware.nl
gpg: 6987 9CED 1745 9375 0F14 DA98 11DD FEA9 DCC4 A036

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 23/01/2023 20:59, AW wrote:

I have done that now without result. But I'll write an E-Mail to the
developers of kmail.


Thank you for filing a feature request.


As long as notmuch, notmuch.el and ol-notmuch are there we have a viable
solution, thanks to this (undocumented) trick with notmuch:id:123abc, after
getting the id by opening the mail with notmuch in emacs and »c I«.


Less than dozen lines of code in init.el (configure mid: links in Org 
and install notmuch handler for `browse-url') should allow referencing 
messages in a MUA agnostic way at least by Message-ID. Emacs mail 
clients allows other queries, but likely there is no standard for them.


This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and everybody 
has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail and 
saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that bothered me for 
decades. 


Thunderbird allows to save messages as an .eml file and to open it by

thunderbird /tmp/test.eml

Gmail web application allows .eml export as well. In some cases it is an 
alternative to PDF.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 24/01/2023 16:42, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:


On 23/01/2023 17:40, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
`browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.


Do you know an alternative?

...

I am mostly concerned that channelling mid: links to browse-url will not
work (open empty page in browser) in most cases. This is more confusing
than not having mid: link handler at all.


For me it may be a reason to not enable to enable "mid:" links by 
default, but I am still considering `browse-url' as the proper handler.


Code to determine handler is platform-specific, e.g. for Linux

xdg-mime query default x-scheme-handler/mid
xdg-settings get default-url-scheme-handler mid

The latter actually calls the former. I would avoid both variants during 
load time.


If you get browser fallback then you are advanced enough user to avoid a 
DE. Gnome shows application selection dialog, KDE throws an error window.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

"Dirk-Jan C. Binnema"  writes:

> Sorry if I'm repeating things earlier mentioned...
>
> mu4e supports message-id links through org-mode, and I *extensively*
> use that my agenda / todo lists. E.g.,
>mu4e:msgid:CACwzTKkeyptMcOA=jq8y23948-fkyfkmtwu...@mail.gmail.com

Ideally, we need not to think which mail client to open the link in.
Be it notmuch or mu4e or some other OS email client outside Emacs.

mu4e: or notmuch: links are more specific in this regard.

> To make it work through browse-url (is that useful?) shouldn't be too
> hard to configure `browse-url-default-handlers' for that. For mu4e that
> could simply use `mu4e-org-open', except that mu4e uses `msgid' (a
> better name imho) rather than `mid'.

mid: if a known standard, as Max pointed in the earlier message:

RFC 2392 - Content-ID and Message-ID Uniform Resource Locators. 1998
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2392

It makes more sense than arbitrary ideas not known to anyone, even if
they sound better for some users.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Dirk-Jan C. Binnema]

On Tuesday Jan 24 2023, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

> AW  writes:
>
>>> It is not up to Org. Try
>>> 
>>>  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
>>> 
>>> You will likely see nothing.
>>
>> Well, M-x  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box") 
>> produces [No match].
>
> This is not a command.
> You need M-: (...
>
>>> So, while Org may provide some limited help with mid:, as Max suggested,
>>> there is no way to guarantee that mid: links will work for all users
>>> without users hand-customizing how to open emails.
>>> 
>>> I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
>>> `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.
>>
>> This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and everybody 
>> has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail and 
>> saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that bothered me 
>> for 
>> decades. 
>
> Well. The more widely used standard is Maildir - downloading emails from
> server to local machine. Emails are just files there that can be indexed
> by variety of mail client software.
>
> The main question is which email clients actually support mid: links.
> notmuch does, but in non-standard way, without doing it system-wide.

Sorry if I'm repeating things earlier mentioned...

mu4e supports message-id links through org-mode, and I *extensively*
use that my agenda / todo lists. E.g.,
   mu4e:msgid:CACwzTKkeyptMcOA=jq8y23948-fkyfkmtwu...@mail.gmail.com

To make it work through browse-url (is that useful?) shouldn't be too
hard to configure `browse-url-default-handlers' for that. For mu4e that
could simply use `mu4e-org-open', except that mu4e uses `msgid' (a
better name imho) rather than `mid'.

Kind regards,
Dirk.

-- 
Dirk-Jan C. Binnema  Helsinki, Finland
e:d...@djcbsoftware.nl   w:www.djcbsoftware.nl
gpg: 6987 9CED 1745 9375 0F14 DA98 11DD FEA9 DCC4 A036

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

AW  writes:

> As long as notmuch, notmuch.el and ol-notmuch are there we have a viable 
> solution, thanks to this (undocumented) trick with notmuch:id:123abc

This is not undocumented. ol-notmuch provides notmuch:
links. id:message-id is a valid search term in notmuch. See
https://notmuchmail.org/searching/

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 23/01/2023 17:40, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
>> I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
>> `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.
>
> Do you know an alternative? Org already uses this package to open some 
> types of links. It allows to have the same handler for all Emacs 
> packages. I do not think that Org-specific handler would be better.

I am mostly concerned that channelling mid: links to browse-url will not
work (open empty page in browser) in most cases. This is more confusing
than not having mid: link handler at all.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

AW  writes:

>> It is not up to Org. Try
>> 
>>  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
>> 
>> You will likely see nothing.
>
> Well, M-x  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box") 
> produces [No match].

This is not a command.
You need M-: (...

>> So, while Org may provide some limited help with mid:, as Max suggested,
>> there is no way to guarantee that mid: links will work for all users
>> without users hand-customizing how to open emails.
>> 
>> I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
>> `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.
>
> This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and everybody 
> has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail and 
> saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that bothered me 
> for 
> decades. 

Well. The more widely used standard is Maildir - downloading emails from
server to local machine. Emails are just files there that can be indexed
by variety of mail client software.

The main question is which email clients actually support mid: links.
notmuch does, but in non-standard way, without doing it system-wide.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Max Nikulin  [2023-01-23 14:49]:
> I agree that linking mail messages and Org notes is important. On the other
> hand my impression is that the "mid:" URI protocol is not adopted wide
> enough by mail user agents yet, so it is too early to enable it by default
> in Org.

All URLs defined by Emacs that are to be run by browse-url in Org
shall be allowed by org, to let the Emacs settings pass through.

And not to hard code it in Org.

To circumvent hard coding in Org, one can always use elisp: type of links:

(defun my-handler (mid)
 (message mid))

[[elisp:(my-handler "I am ok here")][my handler]]

Though it is not logical to hard code in Org how this or that URL
can't be open, as Org should allow present configuration of user to
run. Is that currentlyy working?

> Configuring of "mid:" links requires just a few lines in init.el and they
> are quite usual for custom links.

I have configured it, it does not work in Org

--
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* AW  [2023-01-23 16:58]:
> Am Montag, 23. Januar 2023, 11:40:24 CET schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
> > AW  writes:
> > >> We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
> > >> supported by various OSes.
> > > 
> > > Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via
> > > E-Mail
> > > and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?
> > 
> > It is not up to Org. Try
> > 
> >  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
> > 
> > You will likely see nothing.
> 
> Well, M-x  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box") 
> produces [No match].

By default no match, but as already said, that depends of your
settings. 

It works on my side as I have settings for that. 

In Emacs it is up to user to set how to open it.

Same as with any Internet browser, when you try to use less used URLs,
then you will see browser is asking you by which application to open
it, if to remember that application and so on.

For example magnet: could be opened by Deluge or other torrent
applications, depending of user settings in browser.

There are too many applications and hard coding how to open message ID
would be limitation, not feature.

You may cutomize variable `browse-url-handlers' to get what you wish.

Its value is
(("gemini:" . elpher-go)
 ("gopher:" . elpher-handler-go)
 ("about:" . hyperscope-about)
 ("hyperscope:" . hyperscope-url)
 ("e2dk://" . amule-handler))




--
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2023, 14:59:12 CET schrieb AW:
> But I'll write an E-Mail to the
> developers of kmail.


https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=464695

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2023, 12:46:38 CET schrieb Max Nikulin:
> On 23/01/2023 01:47, AW wrote:
> >> We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
> >> supported by various OSes.
> > 
> > Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via
> > E-Mail
> > and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?
> 
> I agree that linking mail messages and Org notes is important. On the
> other hand my impression is that the "mid:" URI protocol is not adopted
> wide enough by mail user agents yet, so it is too early to enable it by
> default in Org.
> 
> Configuring of "mid:" links requires just a few lines in init.el and
> they are quite usual for custom links.
> 
> Alexander, you have tried 2 mail application and it seems neither of
> them supports "mid:" links out of the box. Notmuch looks almost ready,
> it needs just a .desktop file and configuring `browse-url-handlers' on
> activation. Have you checked if kmail bug tracker has a feature request
> for "mid:" links? I am not sure that KDE bug trackers are indexed by
> search engines.

I have done that now without result. But I'll write an E-Mail to the 
developers of kmail. 
> 
>  From the blog post by Karl Voit I have an impression that developers of
> Evolution do not follow RFC since posted command example contains angle
> brackets (mid:<...@...>). Such format causes "not found" error in
> Thunderbird.
> 
> On 23/01/2023 17:40, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> > I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
> > `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.
> 
> Do you know an alternative? Org already uses this package to open some
> types of links. It allows to have the same handler for all Emacs
> packages. I do not think that Org-specific handler would be better.

As long as notmuch, notmuch.el and ol-notmuch are there we have a viable 
solution, thanks to this (undocumented) trick with notmuch:id:123abc, after 
getting the id by opening the mail with notmuch in emacs and »c I«. 

Thank you for your time and effort!

-- 
Regards,
Alexander

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Montag, 23. Januar 2023, 11:40:24 CET schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
> AW  writes:
> >> We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
> >> supported by various OSes.
> > 
> > Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via
> > E-Mail
> > and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?
> 
> It is not up to Org. Try
> 
>  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box")
> 
> You will likely see nothing.

Well, M-x  (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box") 
produces [No match].
> 
> So, while Org may provide some limited help with mid:, as Max suggested,
> there is no way to guarantee that mid: links will work for all users
> without users hand-customizing how to open emails.
> 
> I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
> `browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.

This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and everybody 
has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail and 
saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that bothered me for 
decades. 

-- 
Regards,

Alexander

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 23/01/2023 01:47, AW wrote:

We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
supported by various OSes.

Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via E-Mail
and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?


I agree that linking mail messages and Org notes is important. On the 
other hand my impression is that the "mid:" URI protocol is not adopted 
wide enough by mail user agents yet, so it is too early to enable it by 
default in Org.


Configuring of "mid:" links requires just a few lines in init.el and 
they are quite usual for custom links.


Alexander, you have tried 2 mail application and it seems neither of 
them supports "mid:" links out of the box. Notmuch looks almost ready, 
it needs just a .desktop file and configuring `browse-url-handlers' on 
activation. Have you checked if kmail bug tracker has a feature request 
for "mid:" links? I am not sure that KDE bug trackers are indexed by 
search engines.


From the blog post by Karl Voit I have an impression that developers of 
Evolution do not follow RFC since posted command example contains angle 
brackets (mid:<...@...>). Such format causes "not found" error in 
Thunderbird.


On 23/01/2023 17:40, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
`browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.


Do you know an alternative? Org already uses this package to open some 
types of links. It allows to have the same handler for all Emacs 
packages. I do not think that Org-specific handler would be better.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

AW  writes:

>> We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
>> supported by various OSes.
>
> Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via E-Mail 
> and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?

It is not up to Org. Try

 (browse-url "mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box") 

You will likely see nothing.

So, while Org may provide some limited help with mid:, as Max suggested,
there is no way to guarantee that mid: links will work for all users
without users hand-customizing how to open emails.

I am not even sure if we need to make Org open mid: links via
`browse-url'. Maybe it should be something else? IDK.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* AW  [2023-01-22 21:49]:
> Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via E-Mail 
> and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?

Absolutely!

There are many uses apart from tasks, there are attachments. 

Legally is better not to delete attachment from e-mail to keep it as
evidence, and references to document in the e-mail are useful.

It seem as a "forgotten" and lacking feauture in many software.

From:

TECHNOLOGY TEMPLATE PROJECT OHS Framework :
https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/110/460/

 Dynamic knowledge capture, integration, management

Automated capture,  indexing and cross-referencing,  integrated email,
journal/library,  intelligence collections;  utilities for  repository
management

Sadly software designers do not follow successful principles, they
tend to follow personal or individual demands, and we get some use of
it, though we could do so much more for people.

- automated capture is missing in many software programs, as programs
  are tool centric, made to be "better" among competition, instead of
  integrating with competition.
  
  Example is Evince PDF viewer which does not have capture system. At
  least it has referencing system by page and query. While XPdf
  program has possibility to capture and reference in the same
  time. 
  
  Many PDF viewers don't have system to capture page number, query,
  some have annotations usable only from inside of the tool, without
  providing integration to other applications.
 
So it is with E-mail clients, they tend to be self-centric, not
providing information in usable way to other applications. Would they
do, there would be no such external tools like `mu' and `notmuch` for
indexing, as any information would be already indexed and re-usable by
other software (competition).

In Emacs we have that option to remember position of a cursor in some
specific file by customizing `save-place' option. That is miniscule
example of automatic capture of piece of information such as location
of a cursor, and with automatic referencing to that piece of
information so that user get to that portion of the file or text where
user was in last session. I think it should be by default. And so many
text editors do not have that basic feature.

It is good to keep filing feature requests to various software authors
that they start implementing note capturing features.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[AW]

Am Sonntag, 22. Januar 2023, 09:32:34 CET schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
> Max Nikulin  writes:
> > AW to emacs-orgmode. Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or
> > notmuch) Sat, 21 Jan 2023 22:32:47 +0100.
> > mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box
> 
> My notmuch allows me to click on the above link from inside the email.
> As for Org links, [[notmuch:id:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box]]
> works the same via ol-notmuch.
> 

Works, great, one thing solved. Thank you!

> We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
> supported by various OSes.

Isn't this rather important? How many users of orgmode get TODOs via E-Mail 
and need an efficient way to come back from the TODO to its origin?

-- 
Regards,

Alexander

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 22/01/2023 15:32, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:

My notmuch allows me to click on the above link from inside the email.
As for Org links, [[notmuch:id:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box]]
works the same via ol-notmuch.

We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
supported by various OSes.


Does emacs support query to desktop environment if specific URI schema 
is supported? Anyway it will increase load time. Instead list of types 
for `browse-url' may be converted into a user option, currently it is 
hard coded:


(dolist (scheme '("ftp" "http" "https" "mailto" "news"))
  (org-link-set-parameters scheme
   :follow
   (lambda (url arg)
 (browse-url (concat scheme ":" url) arg

Currently I use

(with-eval-after-load 'ol
  (org-link-set-parameters
   "mid"
   :follow (lambda (url  arg)
 (browse-url (concat "mid:" url) arg

See Org FAQ https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#org1d563f2 "Can I 
create links to Thunderbirds emails?"


I suppose, notmuch may provide a function for "mid:" associatiopn in 
`browse-url-handler' and a .desktop file similar to


http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/etc/emacsclient-mail.desktop

for handling mid: links from other applications.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* Ihor Radchenko  [2023-01-22 11:34]:
> We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
> supported by various OSes.

Instead of supporting hard coded `mid:` in Org, you better support
generally anything that users may define with variable
`browse-url-handlers` and `browse-url-default-handlers` or
`thing-at-point-uri-schemes', that way you need not need to hard code
it in Org, let it be handled on Emacs level.

Hide browse-url-handlers: 
'(("gemini:" . elpher-go)
  ("gopher:" . elpher-handler-go)
  ("about:" . hyperscope-about)
  ("mid:" . mutt-by-message-id)
  ("hyperscope:" . hyperscope-go)
  ("e2dk://" . amule-handler))

Unless it already works that way.

But on my side it opens up GUI widget telling me "No match, create
heading" -- which is wrong.

If I however, turn on M-x goto-address-mode then about:hyperscope and
mid:123 starts working automatically, it is handled by user's choice.


List of URI Schemes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_URI_schemes


--
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> AW to emacs-orgmode. Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or 
> notmuch) Sat, 21 Jan 2023 22:32:47 +0100. 
> mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box

My notmuch allows me to click on the above link from inside the email.
As for Org links, [[notmuch:id:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box]]
works the same via ol-notmuch.

We could support mid: is the corresponding url schema existed and
supported by various OSes.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Jean Louis]

* AW  [2023-01-22 00:33]:
> Workflow: E-Mails with a question comes in, I open a TODO heading in
> an orgmode file regarding the question.
> 
> Now, I'd like to add a link to the E-Mail under this TODO heading in the 
> orgmode file. I've seen the manual page about external links, https://
> orgmode.org/manual/External-Links.html 

I am using Mutt: https://mutt.org which must be in your
distribution. 

There is way how to automatically capture Message-ID and put it
outside of the Mutt, though I did not yet implement it.

However, if I wish to open specific e-mail I point to the Maildir, or
maybe Mbox or other type,

Maildir: /home/data1/protected/Maildir/to...@tuxteam.de
Message-ID: Y0mt4/g+dlklu...@tuxteam.de

Then I use this function:

(defun hyperscope-mutt-view-by-message-id (link argument)
  "Opens email by message ID by using mutt"
  (let* ((folder link)
 (message-id (replace-regexp-in-string "=" "=" argument))
 (push (format "push '=i %s'" message-id)))
(call-process "xterm" nil nil nil "-e" "mutt" "-f" folder "-e" push)))

Where by function must receive LINK and ARGUMENT, whereby ARGUMENT
means Message-ID string.

xterm is called, mutt launched for FOLDER which is same as LINK, and
"-e" specify a command to be executed after initialization, which is
in this case "push "'=i Y0mt4/g+dlklu...@tuxteam.de'"

And I get to see that specific e-mail that was hyperlinked.

You may implement this in org by creating elisp: type of links easy. You could 
call this function different:

(defalias 'my-message-id 'hyperscope-mutt-view-by-message-id)

(my-message-id LINK ARGUMENT)

Opens email by message ID by using mutt

[[elisp:(my-message-id "/home/data1/protected/Maildir/to...@tuxteam.de" 
"Y0mt4/g+dlklu...@tuxteam.de")][Link to my message]]

And after clicking on the above Org hyperlink I can see it works well. 

KMail does not work on my side, so you can see which command line
options are available to find message by Message-ID.

In Thunderbird you may use this plugin:

Copy Message ID :: Add-ons for Thunderbird:
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-us/thunderbird/addon/copy-message-id/

as to get quickly Message-ID.

The way to open up in Thunderbird is:

./thunderbird mid:PUT-HERE-YOUR-MESSAGE-ID

Here is easier way to insert Message-ID hyperlinks:

(defun rcd-org-link-message-id-by-elisp ()
  (interactive)
  (let* ((my-selection (gui-selection-value))
 (functions '("(my-message-id \"%s\" \"%s\")" 
"(message-id-by-thunderbird \"%s\")"))
 (function (completing-read "Choose function for Message-ID: " 
functions nil t))
 (name (read-string "Name of link: "))
 (folder (read-string "Enter mail folder if any or RET for nothing: "))
 (message-id (read-string "Enter Message-ID: " my-selection)))
(insert "[[elisp:" (format function folder message-id) "][" name "]]")))

1. Copy Message ID in memory, but you also need to know Mail folder, depending 
of function

2. M-x rcd-org-link-message-id-by-elisp and answer questions

3. [[elisp:(my-message-id "my mail folder" "my message ID")][my name]]

> I'm on Linux, KDE as GUI, distro Tumbleweed by openSUSE. The E-mail
> software is kmail. Unfortunately, there is no way to get the path to
> an individual E- mail out of kmail, which I could simply use to put
> it into my orgmode file as a link.  So I installed notmuchmail and
> the emacs package notmuch.el.

It requires indexing and wastes time. If you use Mutt, it will open up
Message-ID e-mails in breeze. You may invoke external HTML viewers or
external program to see e-mails in different way. I know it is double
work.

Peculiar ways to make Evolution work are explained by Karl Voit:

Moving from Thunderbird to Evolution for Emails and Calendar:
https://karl-voit.at/2021/06/01/Thunderbird-to-Evolution/

Feature request: getting a message-id link from email + CLI option to open 
email via message-id (#1508) · Issues · GNOME / evolution · GitLab:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution/-/issues/1508

> By notmuch-search I can find an individual E-mail. In the E-Mail
> buffer I type c I , which copies the message-ID of that E-Mail into
> the keyring.  Instead of a link I paste the message-ID into my
> orgmode file. If I'd like to read the E-Mail again, I can use
> notmuch-search: id:  to find the E- Mail again.  I know,
> this is not a really efficient way. Probably you are not surprised
> to read my question: How can I have a link in an orgmode file to an
> E-Mail using either a feature of kmail oder notmuch ?  Regards,

We tried to solve this problem for Mutt here, since 3 years already:

Feature proposal: provide possibility to link directly to a message (#172) · 
Issues · Mutt Project / mutt · GitLab:
https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/issues/172

Of course, one can see that both in Gnome and Mutt society, people
hardly understand use cases of capturing hyperlinks to messages.

Capturing of e-mails attributes is more of a problem that creating
hyperlinks in 

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Max Nikulin]

On 22/01/2023 04:32, AW wrote:


How can I have a link in an orgmode file to an E-Mail using either a feature of
kmail oder notmuch ?


I am not a kmail user, but out of curiosity I spent a couple of minutes 
trying to find some way to link messages. The only result is some old 
blog post suggesting to create links to files (it seems storage format 
is maildir).


So it seems the only way to get it possible in future is to file a 
feature request to implement "mid:" URI schema


RFC 2392 - Content-ID and Message-ID Uniform Resource Locators. 1998
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2392

I was surprised that "mid:" had been reserved many years ago by

Berners-Lee, T., Masinter, L., and M. McCahill, "Uniform Resource 
Locators (URL)", RFC 1738, December 1994


E.g. thunderbird implemented such feature relatively recently and it 
allows me to have links like


AW to emacs-orgmode. Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or 
notmuch) Sat, 21 Jan 2023 22:32:47 +0100. 
mid:3218434.44cspzl...@linux.fritz.box


in my Org files.

Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch)

[Gautier Ponsinet]

Hello Alexander,

AW :
> How can I have a link in an orgmode file to an E-Mail using either a feature 
> of 
> kmail oder notmuch ?

The package "ol-notmuch" implements links to notmuch messages and "searches":
https://git.sr.ht/~tarsius/ol-notmuch .

There might be other solution, for notmuch or kmail, which I am not
aware of. I hope it helps you.

All the best,
Gautier.