Re: Isolation versus IEC1010
Note that the Low Voltage Directive merely requires member states to approve the import of only electrical products that are safe. It is not directed to manufacturers, nor does it say HOW a manufacturer must meet this condition. Typically, one can either get a complete CB Report to IEC 60950, or explain each and every aspect of the equipment and how it prevents against the kinds of hazards listed. These are the two extremes. Now, what does the specified voltage range mean? The scope of IEC 60950 includes equipment that is mains or battery powered. Mains voltages are hazardous, and batteries can generate terrific heat when shorted, leading to fire. The issue is where your 24V device gets its power. If the mains to 24V convertor is part of the equipment, it definitely falls into the LVD range. If the 24V comes from somewhere else, what is the current (power) limitation coming into your device in the event of a fault? What other limitations must be placed on the incoming power bus to avoid the usual IEC 60950 hazards? If you can demonstrate that the entire unit is 24V or below, and is well protected against hazards induced from outside, it is possible that it might fall outside the scope of the LVD. George Alspaugh Please respond to Gary Labadie glabadie%acromag@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh) bcc: George Alspaugh Subject: Isolation versus IEC1010 I would like to get the consensus on the following concept. The low Voltage directive applies to products that use 50VAC or 75VDC and higher signal levels basically up to 1000VAC. Now, If a product's I/O and power signals do not exceed 24Vdc anywhere, does the low voltage directive apply. Here's the catch, the unit contains electrical isolation between input, output and power signals. The electrical isolation rating is specified as 250VAC continous. Some argue, that since the unit is isolated and has an isolation rating the Low voltage directive applies because the isolation specification exceeds 50VAC. You can also argue that within the scope of the Low Voltage directive that the I/O and power signals are below the directives requirement and hence do not apply if you don't consider whether the product has electrical isolation or not. Does the fact that electrical isolation is included into a product, affect whether the Low Voltage Directive may or may not apply? Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
Acoustics Test
Hi All! Can anyone recommend an environmental lab in the San Diego Cal area which does acoustic testing? I have a need to measure some little fans down to about 30dBA, and my chamber can't yield any quieter than around 43dBA. Thanks! Ed -- Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 619-505-2780 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 06/10/98 Time: 11:30:57 --
Re: CE technical file format
Gary, UK's DTI published a Guidance Document on the Preparation of a Technical Construction File as Required by EC Directive 89/336 dated October 1992, which contains some helpful information on what a manufacturer should include within a Technical Construction File. The key parts of that Guidance Document were also captured within Annex B (Technical Construction File Route to Compliance of the DTI's UK Regulations April 1993 Product Standards, Electromagnetic compatibility. You should be able to obtain the above documents from DTI directly. For your convenience, I have included the relevant excerpts below: Annex B - Technical Construction File Route to Compliance BASIC REQUIREMENTS FOR A TCF Part I: Description of the apparatus: i) identification of apparatus; ii) a technical description. Part II: Procedures used to ensure conformity of the apparatus to the protection requirements: i) a technical rationale; ii) details of significant design elements; iii) test evidence where appropriate. Part Ill: A report or certificate from a 'Competent Body'. SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR A TCF The level of detail required in each of the above sections of the TCF will depend on individual circumstances, but might include the following: Identification of the apparatus (a) brand name; (b) model number; (c) name and address of manufacturer or agent; (d) a description of the intended function of the apparatus; (e) for installations - physical location; (f) external photographs; (g) any limitation on the intended operating environment. Technical description of the apparatus (a) a block diagram showing the interrelationship between the different functional areas of the apparatus; (b) relevant technical drawings, including circuit diagrams, assembly diagrams, parts list, installation diagrams; (c) description of intended interconnections with other products. devices etc. (d) descriptions of product variants. Technical rationale (a) a brief exposition of the rationale underpinning the inclusion and balance of the evidence given. Detail of significant design aspects (a) design features adopted specifically to address EMC problems; (b) relevant component specifications (e.g. the use of cabling products known to minimise EMC problems); (c) an exposition of the procedures used to control variants in the design together with an explanation of the procedures used to assess whether a particular change in the design will require the apparatus to be retested; (d) details and results of any theoretical modelling of performance aspects of the apparatus. Test data (a) a list of the EMC tests performed on the product. and test reports relating to them, including details of test methods, etc. (b) an overview of the logical processes used to decide whether the tests performed on the apparatus were adequate to ensure compliance with the directive; (c) a list of tests performed on critical sub-assemblies, and test reports or certificates relating to them. Report or certificate from a competent body (a) reference to the exact build state of the apparatus assessed, cross referencing with Part I of the basic requirements of a TCF; (b) comment on the technical rationale; (c) statement of work done to verify the contents and authenticity of the design information in the TCF, cross-referencing with Part II (ii) of the basic requirements of a TCF; (d) comment, where appropriate, on the procedures used to control variants, and on environmental, installation and maintenance factors which may be relevant; (e) contain an analysis of the tests performed either by the manufacturer, an authorised third party, or the competent body itself, and the results obtained, so as to assess whether those tests indicate that the apparatus should comply with the essential requirements of the Directive, cross- referencing with Part II (iii) of the basic requirements of a TCF. It is envisaged that Parts I and II of the TCF will be written by the manufacturer in cooperation or consultation with the Competent Body. The report from the Competent Body should therefore not need to repeat much of the information contained in Parts I and II. At the end of the report a detachable certificate will be supplied. This can be used by the manufacturer as an
RE: Low Voltage directive and IEC1010
Hi Gary, At my last employer, I asked the TUV representative in our area to come in and do a product review, and a standard review with me and other Engineers. You can all Rick Grumski in Livonia, MI (313) 261 8881 Also, I see UL has a seminar 6/18-19 in Northbrook IL. Call (847) 480 7500. Good Luck, Ray Russell ray_russ...@gastmfg.com -- From: Gary Labadie[SMTP:glaba...@acromag.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 6:42 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Low Voltage directive and IEC1010 Does anyone have a suggestion on the quickest way to meet the Low Voltage directive and ramp quickly up on the IEC1010? Is going to the approval agency the best way the first time around or a seminar instead? I need to meet the requirements of the low voltage directive and one way is the IEC1010 route and versions thereof. Anybody have other suggestions? Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
Isolation versus IEC1010
I would like to get the consensus on the following concept. The low Voltage directive applies to products that use 50VAC or 75VDC and higher signal levels basically up to 1000VAC. Now, If a product's I/O and power signals do not exceed 24Vdc anywhere, does the low voltage directive apply. Here's the catch, the unit contains electrical isolation between input, output and power signals. The electrical isolation rating is specified as 250VAC continous. Some argue, that since the unit is isolated and has an isolation rating the Low voltage directive applies because the isolation specification exceeds 50VAC. You can also argue that within the scope of the Low Voltage directive that the I/O and power signals are below the directives requirement and hence do not apply if you don't consider whether the product has electrical isolation or not. Does the fact that electrical isolation is included into a product, affect whether the Low Voltage Directive may or may not apply? Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
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Re: Multiple EMC requirements for Fire Equipment in EU
For the standards route to compliance only standards listed in the OJ with reference to the EMC directive can be used. EN50130-4 is listed, EN54-2 is not. With regards to the EMC directive, EN50130-4 wins. You will still need to do what your customers want you to do and that may include EN54-2, but there is no need to do it under the EMC directive. I'd advise that you attempt to get them to accept EN50130-4 in leu of the immunity tests you describe. Jon D. Curtis, PE Curtis-Straus LLC j...@curtis-straus.com Laboratory for EMC, Safety, NEBS, SEMI-S2 and Telecom 527 Great Roadvoice (978) 486-8880 Littleton, MA 01460 fax (978) 486-8828 http://www.curtis-straus.com
Re: CE technical file format
Gary, Some time ago I was given a section of a document entitiled TECHNICAL FILE (5 pages numbered 67 to 71) that calls for the technical file (TF) to be constructed in two levels called A B. A is a parent document that is a overall summary of the test(s), manufacturer name/address, standards used, and description of the product and any corrective measures employed. Section B would contain the detailed test results/data and so on. It goes into some detail as to the way the TF would be used to satisfy a surveiliance inquiry, and that only relevant sections of the TF can be requested by authorities. (Alledgedly offering some protection against unjustified or random requests for the TF.) It does NOT act as a word-processing template. This document makes reference (by footnote) to the Toy, EMC, Machinery, Personal Protective, and Active Implantable Medical Device directives. I wish I could point you to the original document - it looks like an OJ publication, but the OJ number is not present. I can only see 91-6 and Sheet 11/D in the header. This document was provided in a package of info from the US Commerce Department, circa two years ago. Since it was given away freely, I suspect this document has no copyright sensitivity - so you are welcome to a copy/fax/scan-email if you like. Regards, Eric Lifsey Compliance Engineer National Instruments Gary Labadie glaba...@acromag.com on 06/09/98 06:09:00 PM Please respond to Gary Labadie glaba...@acromag.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC) Subject: CE technical file format I was told that there is a specific format that is followed regarding the creation of the CE mark technical file that contains test results. I have never found documentation to support the claim. Does anyone no of a document that specifies section by section what the required format is for a technical file or is it left to the individual to decide what necessary information is contained in the file. Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
Frequency allocation charts for Europe?
Hello emc-pstc list: a number of months ago someone sent out a pointer to a web page with the US Frequency allocation chart (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html), which has been helpful to me recently. does anyone know where one might find a similar chart for European Frequency allocation? snail mail, web page, or organization pointers would all be welcome. thanks in advance! mona (akerb...@acuson.com)
Re: CE technical file format
Gary, I don't believe that there's a specific format for TCFs, however, the contents of a TCF are described in the guidelines for the EMC Directive (see 8.2). The guidelines can be obtained from many sources with one being: http://www.emc-journal.co.uk/newguide.html As to format of the TCF, ask the competent body you choose to assess your TCF. Good luck. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron_pick...@hypercom.com __ Reply Separator _ Subject: CE technical file format Author: Gary Labadie glaba...@acromag.com at INTERNET List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:6/9/98 6:00 PM I was told that there is a specific format that is followed regarding the creation of the CE mark technical file that contains test results. I have never found documentation to support the claim. Does anyone no of a document that specifies section by section what the required format is for a technical file or is it left to the individual to decide what necessary information is contained in the file. Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
Multiple EMC requirements for Fire Equipment in EU
Hello All, I've been looking at the 1998 version of EN 54-2 which is the performance standard for Fire systems control and indicating Equipment. In that standard they have decided to call out some immunity testing. My first question is why! The family product EMC standard for these items already is covered by EN50130-4 (1996). Futhermore EN54-2 is a few years out of step by calling out tests from the 801 series. Can anyone out there from the working group for this standard offer some insight as to why this happened or if there are any plans to modify the standard to either call out EN50130-4 as the test method or to repeal the EMC provisions. What is the groups feeling? Can I safely ignore EN54-2 for it's EMC testing sections and just test to EN50130-4 (its more comprehensive) and declare compliance for the EMC directive on that basis . I really don't feel like taking the time and expense to extend my testing to old standards. Finally this brings up an intesting general point. Lets assume that both of these standards reach their dow. We know one conflicts technically with the other. Both documents have standard statements in their forewords about dates. The first one (dop) is the latest date by which the EN has to be implemented at a National level by publication of an identical NATIONAL STANDARD or by endorsement. the last one (dow) is the latest date by which the NATIONAL STANDARD conflicting with the EN have to be withdrawn. A country implementing an EN makes it a NATIONAL STANDARD as per the definition of the dop. Now we have two standards saying the other must go! Who wins the battle? Regards, Kevin Harris Compliance Engineering Manager Digital Security Controls 1645 Flint Road Downsview, Ontario CANADA M3J 2J6 Tel 416 665 8460 Ext. 378 Fax 416 665 7753
FW: RFID European Rules
Hello Everyone, I need some information regarding RFID systems in Europe: What are the European limits for RFID systems operating at 2450 MHz - licensed and un-licensed operation. If an RFID product currently requires 500 mW EIRP to operate at an acceptable range, what rules would apply? Will the product require a site license? Are there any new standards being written that will raise the limits to allow un-licensed operation at 500 mW, 2450 MHz? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic
Re: CE technical file format
Gary, There is not a specific format for the technical file. You need to ensure that the content includes the relevant information specified by all directives that apply to your product(e.g. both Low Voltage Directive and EMC Directive). Typically you will include the test reports, top level product documentation, product manuals and details of construction critical to EMC and safety (which may be in the test reports). Regards, Lyle Luttrell Luttrell Associates -Original Message- From: Gary Labadie glaba...@acromag.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 8:44 PM Subject: CE technical file format I was told that there is a specific format that is followed regarding the creation of the CE mark technical file that contains test results. I have never found documentation to support the claim. Does anyone no of a document that specifies section by section what the required format is for a technical file or is it left to the individual to decide what necessary information is contained in the file. Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
Re: CE technical file format
Gary, I presume you mean the EMC Technical Construction File. There is an illustrative appendix in a document issued by the UK's Department of Trade and Industry as a guide to manufacturers. I used it to generate an outline TCF. I will try to dig it out and send you a copy. Regards, Phil Ford. -- From: Gary Labadie glaba...@acromag.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: CE technical file format Date: 10 June 1998 00:00 I was told that there is a specific format that is followed regarding the creation of the CE mark technical file that contains test results. I have never found documentation to support the claim. Does anyone no of a document that specifies section by section what the required format is for a technical file or is it left to the individual to decide what necessary information is contained in the file. Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
US-CA-PETALUMA-COMPLIANCE ENGINEER
DSC's Access Products Division, in Northern California (Petaluma), is looking for a Compliance Engineer. BSEE with at least 5 years of industry related Compliance experience. Direct exposure to Bellcore GR-1089-CORE and GR-63-CORE is desired. To apply, please forward a letter of introduction, resume (email preferred), and salary history to: Dave Lorusso david_loru...@optilink.dsccc.com 707-792-7807 (fax)
Re: CE technical file format
Gary, TCF format is not specified in the Directive but you should make sure yours contains the information required therein, and that it is in a format that your competent body finds acceptable, since they will be doing the assessment. best regards Tom Cokenias EMC Consultant 650-726-1262
Class 1 Div 1 Group D
Jim, You can get further information on Class 1, Div 1, Group D from Factory Mutual Research Corporation (FMRC) and from UL and CSA. FMRC both have wall charts giving information on what the various Classes, Divisions and Groups mean. I think FM's is better but then I am biased. Contact number for FM is (781) 762 4851 if you want to get hold of one. Or you can email at; approv...@factory-mutual.com Nick Ludlam
Re: CCFL Inverter Board
Hi Bob: Electric shock requires both voltage AND current. Most safety standards specify conditions for electric shock when the voltage is 30 volts rms or more AND the current is either 0.25, 0.5, or 3.5 mA rms or more. Think of it as an AND gate. Voltage exceeding 30 V rms AND current exceeding 3.5 mA rms equals conditions for electric shock. Often, this is not clearly stated in the standard. This is because the typical supply exceeding 30 V rms also exceeds 3.5 mA rms. Conversely, electric shock is not possible if ONE of the ingredients, voltage or current, is less than the specified limit values. The most common examples are ELV and SELV. If the voltage does not exceed 30 V rms, then the voltage is safe to touch regardless of the current. (I am not discussing here the special case of SELV, but simply that low voltage in itself is a safeguard against electric shock.) You cite the uncommon example of limited current. If the current does not exceed 0.5 mA rms (in your case, 23 mA rms at 33 kHz), then the current is safe to touch regardless of the voltage. (Try it! You will feel nothing! Use one hand only between ground and the source.) (Unfortunately, 1100 V rms at 33 kHz may arc to your skin and burn a small hole in your skin if you touch a point; touch a large flat surface.) Actually, every mains-connected product in the world uses this concept of protection. It is the phenomenon of leakage current. The current is safe to touch even though the voltage exceeds the limits of ELV. (Half the mains voltage appears on accessible conductive parts of ungrounded products.) It is difficult to believe, but a limited current circuit such as you describe needs no safety insulation whatsoever. It is equivalent to an SELV circuit. It can be touched just as an SELV circuit can be touched. Of course, it must remain limited current under single- fault conditions. This would be a single fault in the insulation from the 5 V dc circuit to the limited current circuit. This should change it from limited current circuit to an ELV (or SELV) circuit. Or, it may not do anything, depending on the circuit configuration. Another fault is to maximize the voltage to the oscillator, if this is a possible 5-volt power supply fault (e.g., short the 5-volt regulator). Increased oscillator voltage may increase the available current to more than the allowed 23 kHz (but beware the frequency may change, which will change the allowable current). I understand this sort of circuit is commonly used for the backlight of laptop computers. This is why there is no need for an extensive insulation system for laptops. We use a variation of this circuit for the lamp power in many of our scanner products. We rely on limited current for protection of the customer from electric shock. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Quality Department Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group San Diego Division (SDD) Tel : 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - The future has a way of arriving unannounced. -- George F. Will
Low Voltage directive and IEC1010
Hi Gary. You wrote: Does anyone have a suggestion on the quickest way to meet the Low Voltage directive and ramp quickly up on the IEC1010? Is going to the approval agency the best way the first time around or a seminar instead? IEC 1010 and the LV directive is a long involved thing, and I spend much of my time advising people how to deal with it, unfortunately I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic... What I would say is that 1010 doesn't only relate to Electrical Safety, but is a general standard describing safety in all it's aspects of equipment which is mains powered. I.e., it mustn't be too heavy, have sharp edges, give off fumes, catch fire, break easily, make too much noise, give off bright light, radiate damaging radiation (RF or nuclear), and presumeably if you eat it it shouldn't make you sick! Electrical safety requires either shock protection by double insulation to live parts, or by earthed accessible metal parts, in order to check this the standard consist of a whole load of 'Tests' which must be done and results recorded. Mechanical safety is fairly well described in the standard. What I do is go through the standard and make a list of all the relevant clauses, then make that list into a check list, and use that as the compliance statement. It will take a couple of hoursto comile the list, and allows you to ignore tests which are not relevant, e.g. the standard is very heavy on transformwer safrty, so if your equipment doesn't have transformers you leave all that stuff off of the 'check list'. British Standards have a draft 'Check List' in preparation, but it is incomplete and of course covers everything, including all the stuff not relevant to your equipment. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask. Good Luck, Chris Dupres Surrey UK.
CE technical file format
I was told that there is a specific format that is followed regarding the creation of the CE mark technical file that contains test results. I have never found documentation to support the claim. Does anyone no of a document that specifies section by section what the required format is for a technical file or is it left to the individual to decide what necessary information is contained in the file. Best Regards, Gary Labadie Marketing Acromag, Inc. 30765 Wixom Rd.Ph: (248)624-1541 ext. 205 P.O. Box 437 Fax:(248)624-9234 Wixom, MI 48393Email: glaba...@acromag.com
RE: What is Class 1, Div. 1 Group D?
Jim, I'm not positive but that sounds like classifications under a Hazardous Locations safety standard (UL or CSA) ... I don't have any on hand to verify. Kaz Gawrzyjal Nortel k...@nortel.com -Original Message- From: bach...@ccmail.mmsday.com [SMTP:bach...@ccmail.mmsday.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 6:14 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: What is Class 1, Div. 1 Group D? Yesterday we had a customer call asking if our products were Class 1, Div. 1, Group D compliant. Can anyone tell me where I can get information on what it is and what it takes to meet it? Jim Bacher Paxar-Monarch bach...@monarch.com
Re: What is Class 1, Div. 1 Group D?
Jim, Try National Electrical Code Article 500 Hazardous (Classified) Locations Class 1 is locations where flammable gases or vapors are or may be in the air in quantities sufficient to produce explosive or ignitible mixtures Class 1 Div 1 is as above due to 1) normal conditions, or 2) frequently because of repair operations/leakage/etc, or 3) breakdown/faulty operation Group D is atmospheres such as acetone, ammonia, benzene, butane, cyclopropane, ethanol, gasoline, hexane, methanol, methane, natural gas, naptha, propane, etc If your product carries a rating label with the above Class 1 Div 1 Group D rating and a NRTL mark, you can claim to meet this performance level. If not, I suggest to contact UL in Northbrook IL at 847-272-8800 to discuss evaluating your product. I used to work at Square D Co., which makes HazLoc electrical equipment, and was responsible for building an in-house hydrogen-air testing facility, plus testing with UL witnessing our tests for Listing. My company helps manufacturers get UL and other agency certifications. If we can help, feel free to contact me. Mike Harris Teccom Co. tecco...@i-cafe.net 707-258-1360/fax 1361 -- From: BACHERJ bach...@ccmail.mmsday.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: What is Class 1, Div. 1 Group D? Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 5:14 AM Yesterday we had a customer call asking if our products were Class 1, Div. 1, Group D compliant. Can anyone tell me where I can get information on what it is and what it takes to meet it? Jim Bacher Paxar-Monarch bach...@monarch.com
