Re: NRTL Listing

1999-06-30 Thread Douglas McKean

Hi Joe, 

Personally, in my humble opinion, I'd have to 
question what would happen to my end user if 
for any reason what so ever the AC adapter 
shorted over to the 7vdc side. 

This is a personal opinion.  I try to stand up 
on a soap box about matters like this and usually 
lose.  But, in my opinion, I try to read the 
spirit of the standards rather than the black 
and white. 

I understand that what I'm suggesting is not 
really spelled out in black and white somewhere, 
but if given half the chance, I'd test. One 
of my jobs is safety whether it's written 
in some standard or not. 

I would think of the adapter AND the product 
to which it's attached as the system. Not 
only that, but a 115/230 VAC AC powered system 
and test it as such.  

Again, simply my opinion ... 

Regards,  Doug McKean 



At 03:29 PM 6/25/99 -0400, Finlayson, Joe wrote:

Hello Group,

   I am in the midst of evaluating the compliance status of a
particular product for a potential OEM relationship.  This product is a
standalone box with Ethernet ports powered by an external AC adapter with an
output of 7VDC.  The adapter is NRTL Listed, IEC 950 CB report, etc.
although the box itself has no safety certs whatsoever.  My understanding is
that there is no legal requirement to have an NRTL Listing, etc. for such a
product although my policy has been to get that third party mark to minimize
liability and such.  Can anyone share some more info as to their reasons for
listing or not listing such a product which is well below hazardous limits.
Horror stories are definitely welcome as I would like ammunition to justify
my case to force the issue.

Thx,


Joe
   

*
Joe Finlayson   
Compliance Engineering Manager
NBase-Xyplex
295 Foster Street
Littleton, MA 01460
Tel:   +1 (978) 952-5887
Fax:   +1 (978) 952-5054
Email: jfinlay...@nbase-xyplex.com


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Re: voltage on Neutral line, Measurements From Chile

1999-06-30 Thread Patrick Lawler

Wow!  What kind of three-phase power is this - delta or wye?
Is this an example of the neutral conductor not being grounded, and just being
a tap on a transformer? 


On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:10:42 -0700, Donald Kimball dkimb...@qualcomm.com
wrote:
At 12:08 AM 6/29/99 -0700, mvald...@netvision.net.il wrote:
What voltages can I expect on the Neutral (referenced to ground) line in 
various countries 
and connection systems? Is there a limit on how high the voltage may be, 
both in normal and 
fault conditions?

Some of our Cellular base stations are located in regions of Chile where power 
is being intentionally turned off due to low water conditions at 
hydro-electric plants. We have been montoring the voltage at these sites due 
to concerns about the battery backup system. The cell sites use 380V Line to 
Line, 220V Line to Neutral, 3-Phase power. During restoration of power, the 
voltage on neutral sometimes rises to 220V Line to Ground for several cycles. 
The voltage on the phases has been measured as great as 440V Line to Line for 
several cycles, with Line to Neutral voltages as high as 380V.  There does not 
seem to be much power available during this transition time with the wild 
voltages. 

Preliminary measurements in Brazil are showing some of the same results. The 
load regulation at remote sites seems to be a problem. 

Don Kimball



thanks in advance,
Moshe

Name: moshe valdman
E-mail: mvald...@netvision.net.il
Phone: 972-54-881334
Telefax: 972-3-5496369
Date: 29/6/99
Time: 0:08:41

--
Patrick Lawler
plaw...@west.net

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FW: EFFECT

1999-06-30 Thread Arun Kaore

Interesting to note that the term Electromagnetic Effect could be triggered
by Enrico Fermi back in the 40's when he suggested that electromagnetic
effects would be observed in a nuclear explosion ( with different generation
mechanisms- Surface Burst, Air Burst, HEMP etc and different waveshapes and
levels) and lightning strikes. 

Towards achieving better Electromagnetic Compatibility, this resulted in the
introduction of MIL 462 tests CS10, CS 11, CS 12, CS 13 and RS05- with most
waveforms simulated by the commonly available Solar Transient Generators in
shielded rooms and/or Bounded wave TEM cells.

In a narrow sense therefore, it could be said that to achieve good
compatibility, the equipment should withstand external natural or man made
electromagnetic effects.

Another form of environmental effect on EMC is the deterioration of EMC
gaskets, beryllium  fingers and formation of oxides on an otherwise perfect
bond in salty, humid or corrosive atmosphere rendering shielding
effectiveness failure over time and/or environment, bringing up issues of
periodic EMI/EMC Preventive Maintainence in the log books!




Arun Kaore
EMC Engineer

ADI Limited
Systems Group
Test  Evaluation Centre
Forrester Road, St Marys 2760
P O Box: 315, St Marys NSW 1790

Tel: 61 2 9673 8375
Fax: 61 2 9673 8321
Email: kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au

-Original Message-
From:   Javor, Ken [SMTP:ken.ja...@hsv.sverdrup.com]
mailto:[SMTP:ken.ja...@hsv.sverdrup.com] 
Sent:   Wednesday, 30 June, 1999 1:48
To: 'ed.pr...@cubic.com'; EMC-PSTC; PETER PHILLIPS
Subject:RE: EFFECT


I agree with the substance of Ed's comment.  In my experience the more usual
terminology is EME = electromagnetic environment, while E3 (E-cubed) =
electromagnetic environmental effects.  Neither of these terms relates
directly to the adverse effect on rf or EMC performance due to other
environmental conditions.  
 -Original Message-
 From: ed.pr...@cubic.com mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com
[SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com] mailto:[SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com] 
 Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 11:43 AM
 To:   EMC-PSTC; PETER PHILLIPS
 Subject:  Re: EFFECT
 
 
 Peter:
 
 Electromagnetic Effects (EME) is a bit more comprehensive a concept
 than Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC). There are many things that
 you can do with electromagnetic energy that are not necessarily
 related to compatibility. RF techniques can be used to investigate or
 change physical properties, protect friendly forces, confuse hostile
 forces, deny use of assets, eavesdrop; well, lot's more.
 
 I would say that EMC is a subset of EME.
 
 Regards,
 
 Ed
 
 
 
   From:   PETER PHILLIPS peter.phill...@mira.co.uk
mailto:peter.phill...@mira.co.uk 
   Subject:EFFECT
   Date:   Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:41:12 +0100 
   To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail) emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 
 
 
  
  Dear group,
  
  Has anybody heard about the term EFFECT relating to EMC and
 environmental
  testing combined.
  
  I am looking for any information on the topic, also any views
that
 people
  may have regarding the change in EMC performance due to adverse
  environmental conditions
  
  Looking forward to your comments
  
  Peter 
  
 

  Peter Phillips
  MIRA (Motor Industry Research Association)
  Tel:++44 (0)1203 355576 
  Fax:++44 (0)1203 355486
  e-mail peter.phill...@mira.co.uk
mailto:peter.phill...@mira.co.uk 
  
  
  
  
  
 
 ---End of Original Message-
 
 --
 Ed Price
 ed.pr...@cubic.com mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com 
 Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
 Cubic Defense Systems
 San Diego, CA.  USA
 619-505-2780
 Date: 06/28/1999
 Time: 08:42:51
 Military  Avionics EMC Services Our Specialty
 Also Environmental / Metrology / Reliability
 --
 
 

 



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RE: Billing tones...?

1999-06-30 Thread Victor L. Boersma
Message text written by INTERNET:t...@world.std.com
 A computer security device such as a logic circuit that could be
connected to the machine (i.e. via a printer port) which, when
interrogated, returns a unique logic code. 

Live and learn.  We're all grateful for this bit of new information.
My suspicious mind was trying to work back from the root of the
word and left in strange places.


Ciao,


Vic


FW: EFFECT

1999-06-30 Thread Arun Kaore

Peter,
Noting that the thread has originated from MIRA, some of the Environmental
Effects which should have minimal EMC impact (over the periodic maintenance
lifetime) on the Engine Management Systems, Braking and Air Bag Deployment
Systems etc could be:
Vibration and Shock, Climate, Temperature, Presence of 60/50Hz High HV Power
Cabling and Traffic Management cabling under/over roads etc. There have been
incidences of Brakes or other unintended functions deploying with a mind of
their own at certain geographic locations and traffic lights!
Immunity aspects mostly covered under the Automotive Directive. 
Arun Kaore
EMC Engineer

ADI Limited
Systems Group
Test  Evaluation Centre
Forrester Road, St Marys 2760
P O Box: 315, St Marys NSW 1790

Tel: 61 2 9673 8375
Fax: 61 2 9673 8321
Email: kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au


From:   PETER PHILLIPS [mailto:peter.phill...@mira.co.uk]
mailto:[mailto:peter.phill...@mira.co.uk] 
Sent:   Monday, June 28, 1999 9:41 AM
To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail)
Subject:EFFECT



Dear group,
Has anybody heard about the term EFFECT relating to EMC and environmental
testing combined.
I am looking for any information on the topic, also any views that people
may have regarding the change in EMC performance due to adverse
environmental conditions
Looking forward to your comments
Peter 


Peter Phillips
MIRA (Motor Industry Research Association)
Tel:++44 (0)1203 355576 
Fax:++44 (0)1203 355486
e-mail peter.phill...@mira.co.uk mailto:peter.phill...@mira.co.uk 


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RE: SCART specification question

1999-06-30 Thread James, Chris

The Scart (Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et
Téléviseurs) connector typical configs can be found at: 

http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/eprebel/SoundAndVision/Engineering/SCART.
html

copy attached as pdf.

A formal description is given in the CENELEC EN 50 049-1:1989* standard
or in the IEC 933-1 standard.
* now 1997/98

From the BSI electronic catalogue:  
BS EN 50049-1:1998
Domestic and similar electronic equipment interconnection requirements.
Peritelevision connector 

Defines baseband or digital signal characteristics of peritelevision
devices for interconnection between themselves and with television
receivers (monochrome or colour).



Price: GBP25.00 to subscribing members of BSI, GBP50.00 to non-members
20 page(s) 
 

From CENELEC:

Standard reference Reference document Title (EN) Directive CLC/TC 
EN 50049-1:1997Domestic and similar electronic equipment
interconnection requirements: Peritelevision connectorCLC/TC 206  
EN 50049-1:1997/A1:1998Addition of a limited value for the d.c.
component to the audio outputs and inputsCLC/TC 206  

Chris James


-Original Message-
From: Nick Williams [mailto:n...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:18 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: SCART specification question



I've been asked to look at a gadget which is intended for connection to
the
SCART port on a TV or VCR. The gadget in question is powered via a
plug-top
transformer, which we can specify to be SELV output.

My question relates to the specification of the SCART port which is, I
guess, a standard configuration (although a key-word search on SCART in
the
BS catalogue throws up no references, I notice...)

Is it, or is it not, safe to assume that connections made to the SCART
interface are SELV? In other words, even if we ensure that all parts of
our
product powered at SELV, do we have to treat those parts connected to
the
SCART interface as potentially live, or can we assume that they too will
be
SELV?

Any ideas (including a reference to the basic SCART specification) would
be
helpful.

Regards

Nick.

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begin 600 Scart Connector.pdf
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RE: EU Official Languages

1999-06-30 Thread Colgan, Chris

Richard

You may find that Swedish can be acceptable for the four Scandinavian
countries plus Iceland.

Chris Colgan
EMC  Safety
TAG McLaren Audio Ltd

mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com


 -Original Message-
 From: WOODS, RICHARD [SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com]
 Sent: 29 June 1999 18:44
 To:   'emc-pstc'
 Subject:  EU Official Languages
 
 
 When a Directive requires information to be provided to the user, and that
 equipment is intended to marketed in every EU and EFTA country, what
 minimal
 set of languages must be used? I can think of the following languages that
 are used in these countries. Are there more languages that must be
 included?
 Can some of these be deleted?
 
 English, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Dutch,
 Danish,
 Swedish, Finnish, and Norwegian (EFTA)
 
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 jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
 roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
 
=
Authorised on 06/30/99 at 09:01:55; code 37453441FFF928DE.

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Austalian A-Mark from OEM Supplier

1999-06-30 Thread Nezam Najafi

To all:

Can someone help me to clarify this issue. I have a OEM supplier that has
A-tick mark in Australia. Do I have to obtain a obtain a supplier T-mark  a
reseller of the products. Dose it mean that I have to have to go replicate
the Australian Safety, EMC, and Network test or I can use the supplier test
data to obtain in Country A-Tick reseller number. What is he dose not have
all the test. Then who will be responsible for maintaining the Compliance
file? me as a reseller or my OEM? I understand that these are loaded
question!I thank you for your response in advance.

Regards,
Nezam najafi
Sr. Compliance Engineer
Madge Networks, New Jersey
Voice: 732-460-6825


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Safety Incident Reporting

1999-06-30 Thread WOODS, RICHARD

My company is reviewing our plans for handling safety incidents and product
recalls. I would appreciate it if you could point me to documents that
contain such plans or if you could forward any plans that you may have. The
one plan that I do have is from Managing Product Safety Activities by Paul
Hill. Thanks in advance.

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Re: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS

1999-06-30 Thread Dale Albright

George,

It is our understanding that If your equipment meets the appropriate
sections of FCC Part 15, than no further testing is necessary for Canadian
approval and your FCC report will be acceptable.  However, an equipment
label is required which is similar to the FCC Class A label.  The suggested
text is given in the Annex of ICES-003 .  This Class (A or B) digital
apparatus meets all requirements of the Canadian Interference-Causing
Equipment Regulations.

Best Regards,

Dale Albright
President
EMC International, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: George Waters gwat...@digiceiver.com
To: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:59 AM
Subject: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS



I need some guidance on an indoor satellite receiver we build.
Functionally it is similar to a DISH network receiver, but ours is not a
consumer product.

We worked with test labs to obtain conformance to FCC Part 15, and CE,
for which we have a DOC.

Now our US customer wants to lease some of the units in Canada.  What
else do we need to do?

George Waters

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RE: EMC encyclopedia ??

1999-06-30 Thread Mavis, Robert
emf-emi control inc.
P.O. Box D
Gainesville Virginia 20156
540-347-0030
http://www.emf-emi.com


 -Original Message-
 From: ed.pr...@cubic.com [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 9:38 AM
 To:   EMC-PSTC
 Cc:   Morel Grunberg
 Subject:  Fw: EMC encyclopedia ??
 
 
 Posted for Morel Grunberg morel.grunb...@telrad.co.il:
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
 
   From: Morel Grunberg morel.grunb...@telrad.co.il
   Subject: EMC encyclopedia ??
   Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:34:19 +0300 
   To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
 
 
  Hello,
  
  Looking for informations on how/where to get the Don White 
  'EMC encyclopedia' on hardcopy and/or CD ROMs. No
  findings on WEB search.
  Any help will be appreciated.
  
  Morel 
  
  
 
 ---End of Original Message-
 
 --
 Ed Price
 ed.pr...@cubic.com
 Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
 Cubic Defense Systems
 San Diego, CA.  USA
 619-505-2780
 Date: 06/29/1999
 Time: 08:37:33
 Military  Avionics EMC Services Our Specialty
 Also Environmental / Metrology / Reliability
 --
 
 
 
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RE: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS

1999-06-30 Thread John Juhasz

Regarding FCC Part-15, it is accepted by Canadian authorities, but you must
also 
have the compliance statement in French.

FCC Part 15 COmpliance Statement:

This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to
the following two conditions:
(1) This device may not cause harmful  interference, and
(2) This device must accept any interference received, including
interference that may cause undesired operation.

Canadian Compliance Statement:

Cet appareil numerique de la classe A respecte toutes les exigences du
Reglement sur le materiel brouilleur du Canada.

For product safety, ITE equipment, there is the joint US/Canadian
Bi-National standard UL1950 3rd Edition/ CAN CSA-C22.2 No. 950. You can have
an NRTL do the test and issue an NRTL and cNRTL mark. Or you can use either
UL or CSA and they will issue their marks and their respective mutual
recognition marks.

John A. Juhasz
Product Qualification 
Compliance Engr.

Fiber Options, Inc.
80 Orville Dr. Suite 102
Bohemia, NY 11716 USA

Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 324
Fax: 516-567-8322 


-Original Message-
From: Nezam Najafi [mailto:nezam.naj...@madge.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 2:15 PM
To: 'George Waters'; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS



Hello George:

Your FCC part 15 for emission is mutually recognized by Canada. As for
Safety, US has UL1950 3rd Ed. while Canada has C22 NO. 950. These safety
tests are almost identical with some dela. You need to get the Canadian
safety certificate.

Good Luck

Nezam Najafi
MADGE NETWORKS

-Original Message-
From: George Waters [mailto:gwat...@digiceiver.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:29 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS



I need some guidance on an indoor satellite receiver we build. 
Functionally it is similar to a DISH network receiver, but ours is not a
consumer product.

We worked with test labs to obtain conformance to FCC Part 15, and CE,
for which we have a DOC.

Now our US customer wants to lease some of the units in Canada.  What
else do we need to do?

George Waters

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RE: EU Official Languages

1999-06-30 Thread Scott Douglas

We had several discussions about this issue. I presented to Engineering and 
Marketing the legal requirements from the directives and let them make the 
choice as to what languages we should actually use. In the end we decided 
to print in five languages - English, French, German, Spanish, Italian as a 
matter of course. Marketing came back with one special request to add 
either Swedish or Finnish, I can't remember which. We don't do any other 
languages. We have had no complaints as to what languages we either have or 
don't have. Except from our documentation people who have to make out the 
purchase requisitions for the translations which are very costly.

Scott
s_doug...@ecrm.com

-Original Message-
From:   wo...@sensormatic.com [SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent:   Tuesday, June 29, 1999 1:44 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:EU Official Languages


When a Directive requires information to be provided to the user, and that
equipment is intended to marketed in every EU and EFTA country, what
minimal
set of languages must be used? I can think of the following languages that
are used in these countries. Are there more languages that must be
included?
Can some of these be deleted?

English, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Dutch,
Danish,
Swedish, Finnish, and Norwegian (EFTA)

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RE: EU Official Languages

1999-06-30 Thread Dave Wilson

It should be borne in mind that there may be certain national consumer laws
which require user documentation to be in the national language.

Dave Wilson
EMC Manager
BABT Product Service
-- Original Text --

From: POWELL, DOUG doug.pow...@aei.com, on 6/30/99 9:56 AM:


Richard,

I can only speak from my experience with the LVD and EMC directives.

1) The requirement for CE marked products is that the user documentation and
the DoC be in one of the official languages of the EU.  So, we use English
as one of the languages.

2) That being said, the safety standards my company uses to comply with the
CE mark, require that we provide user documentation in any of the other
official languages if in fact our customer explicitly requires it by
contract.  However this may be a reduced size document containing only those
portions that are specifically related to the safe installation, operation,
maintenance and disposal of the product.  It is not required that you
translate sections like theory of operation, applications, sales literature,
etc.

3) Additionally, when we certify a product through a notified body, in this
case LGA in Nurnberg Germany, the national public safety law requires a
manual in German.  I suspect other nationalities within the EU have similar
requirements for certified products.

This policy has been confirmed by our representative from LGA America.

-doug

===
Douglas E. Powell, Compliance Engineer
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 USA
===


-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:44 AM
To: 'emc-pstc'
Subject: EU Official Languages



When a Directive requires information to be provided to the user, and that
equipment is intended to marketed in every EU and EFTA country, what minimal
set of languages must be used? I can think of the following languages that
are used in these countries. Are there more languages that must be included?
Can some of these be deleted?

English, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, Dutch, Danish,
Swedish, Finnish, and Norwegian (EFTA)

-
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RE: Safety Incident Reporting

1999-06-30 Thread Russell, Ray

Hi Richard,

I recommend you check out the Consumer Product Safety Commission at
http://www.cpsc.gov/
BTW Paul Hill's book is a great resource.

Ray Russell

ray_russ...@gastmfg.com

-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:54 AM
To: 'emc-pstc'
Subject: Safety Incident Reporting



My company is reviewing our plans for handling safety incidents and product
recalls. I would appreciate it if you could point me to documents that
contain such plans or if you could forward any plans that you may have. The
one plan that I do have is from Managing Product Safety Activities by Paul
Hill. Thanks in advance.

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RE: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS

1999-06-30 Thread Grant, Tania (Tania)

Canada requires that these markings be both in English and in French.   Here
is the exact wording, from Annex of ICES-003 : 

Canadian EMC statement in  English and French:

This Class (insert A or B) digital apparatus meets all
requirements of the Canadian Interference-Causing Equipment Regulations.

Cet appareil num/erique de la classe (A ou B) respecte
toutes les exigences du R\eglement sur le mat/eriel brouilleur du Canada.

(Accent aigue over a vowel is denoted by / before that vowel.  Accent
grave over a vowel is denoted by \ before that vowel.   And both are
underlined.)

Tania Grant, Lucent Technologies, Octel Messaging Division
tgr...@lucent.com


--
From:  Dale Albright [SMTP:da...@emclabs.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, June 30, 1999 7:51 AM
To:  emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:  Re: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS


George,

It is our understanding that If your equipment meets the appropriate
sections of FCC Part 15, than no further testing is necessary for Canadian
approval and your FCC report will be acceptable.  However, an equipment
label is required which is similar to the FCC Class A label.  The suggested
text is given in the Annex of ICES-003 .  This Class (A or B) digital
apparatus meets all requirements of the Canadian Interference-Causing
Equipment Regulations.

Best Regards,

Dale Albright
President
EMC International, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: George Waters gwat...@digiceiver.com
To: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:59 AM
Subject: CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS



I need some guidance on an indoor satellite receiver we build.
Functionally it is similar to a DISH network receiver, but ours is not a
consumer product.

We worked with test labs to obtain conformance to FCC Part 15, and CE,
for which we have a DOC.

Now our US customer wants to lease some of the units in Canada.  What
else do we need to do?

George Waters

-
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