Upgrades

1999-08-02 Thread Brian Harlowe

Please can you give me some opinions on the following.

I have a customer who has one of our Scientific instruments that he 
wishes to upgrade.

If I supply him with CE marked everything to allow him to carry out 
this up grade and I also provide him with a detailed manual on how to 
install and connect up these items to be emc compatible.

Do my responsibilities end there and does the customer have to get 
the instrument re tested and CE mark it?

Regards

Brian Harlowe
* opinions expressed here are personal and in no way reflect the position of VG 
Scientific

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RE: Upgrades

1999-08-02 Thread WOODS, RICHARD

Brian, I have to assume that as the manufacturer, your company has taken on
the responsibility of ensuring compliance with the directives, applied the
CE mark and issued the Declaration. Now you want to sell an upgrade to the
equipment. Nothing has changed. You the manufacture are still responsible
for ensuring compliance of the upgraded equipment.  If the original
Declaration did not cover these options, then a new Declaration will be
required for the upgraded equipment.

Since the upgrades are expressly intended for use with your equipment and
not sold on the open market, I don't believe that they need to be CE marked.
--
From:  Brian Harlowe [SMTP:bharl...@vgscientific.com]
Sent:  Monday, August 02, 1999 11:57 AM
To:  emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:  Upgrades


Please can you give me some opinions on the following.

I have a customer who has one of our Scientific instruments that he 
wishes to upgrade.

If I supply him with CE marked everything to allow him to carry out 
this up grade and I also provide him with a detailed manual on how
to 
install and connect up these items to be emc compatible.

Do my responsibilities end there and does the customer have to get 
the instrument re tested and CE mark it?

Regards

Brian Harlowe
* opinions expressed here are personal and in no way reflect the
position of VG Scientific

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RE: Upgrades

1999-08-02 Thread John Juhasz
Brian,

I agree with Richard. However, I would like to add one thing.
In ensuring continued compliance on your products, I would assume (only
because this is what I do) that you at least verified (on a similar in-house
sample of the product) that the upgrades did not detrimentily affect the
product's original compliance. This should be well documented and placed in
your product's compliance folder.

John A. Juhasz
Product Qualification 
Compliance Engr.

Fiber Options, Inc.
80 Orville Dr. Suite 102
Bohemia, NY 11716 USA

Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 324
Fax: 516-567-8322 



-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 12:26 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Upgrades



Brian, I have to assume that as the manufacturer, your company has taken on
the responsibility of ensuring compliance with the directives, applied the
CE mark and issued the Declaration. Now you want to sell an upgrade to the
equipment. Nothing has changed. You the manufacture are still responsible
for ensuring compliance of the upgraded equipment.  If the original
Declaration did not cover these options, then a new Declaration will be
required for the upgraded equipment.

Since the upgrades are expressly intended for use with your equipment and
not sold on the open market, I don't believe that they need to be CE marked.
--
From:  Brian Harlowe [SMTP:bharl...@vgscientific.com]
Sent:  Monday, August 02, 1999 11:57 AM
To:  emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:  Upgrades


Please can you give me some opinions on the following.

I have a customer who has one of our Scientific instruments that he 
wishes to upgrade.

If I supply him with CE marked everything to allow him to carry out 
this up grade and I also provide him with a detailed manual on how
to 
install and connect up these items to be emc compatible.

Do my responsibilities end there and does the customer have to get 
the instrument re tested and CE mark it?

Regards

Brian Harlowe
* opinions expressed here are personal and in no way reflect the
position of VG Scientific

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RE: That doesn't make any sense

1999-08-02 Thread Darrell Locke (MSMail)

A few years back with another company I was in one of these situations.
Soon after the EMC Directive went into effect, I spent days at the direction
of a manager trying to provide proof that our product legally only needed to
meet Class A for Europe.  In the end, none of this mattered, because the end
customer (large telecom company) insisted on Class B and would accept
nothing else.  I have since found that regulatory issues are almost always
customer issues.  Managers and business people understand this.  No one
wants to be selling a product that doesn't meet all the applicable safety or
EMC requirements.  Competitors would have a heyday with it.

Darrell Locke
 --
From: Schanker, Jack
To: ri...@sdd.hp.com
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: That  doesn't make any sense
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 6:36AM


Rich:

I want to thank you, and compliment you, for so accurately describing
managment reactions to regulatory problems in your July 20 posting to the
emc-pstc.

It completely mirrors my own past (and continuing) experiences.

I have also gotten the reaction well, that doesn't make any sense in
relation to an inconvenient rule in some international standard. Why did
they do that ? is asked, like I should know.

Then the big question: Can we get a waiver?

Dialogue:

No, I don't think so. Manager: Did you try?

The years of experience and intuitive feel for what is and what is not
possible, mean little to the uninformed arrogance of a manager who is used
to having it his way (almost always his) and expecting the world to turn
at his command.

The bad news aspect also looms large, as you so aptly describe.

Gotta get back to work.

Jack

Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E.
Director of Agency Compliance
Adaptive Broadband Corporation
175 Science Parkway
Rochester, NY 14620 USA
+716 242 8454 (voice)
+716 241 5590 (fax)
jschan...@adaptivebroadband.com

The opinions expressed above are obviously someone else's.

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FW: cost effective EMC facility

1999-08-02 Thread Qu Pingyu

Hi, guys:

Thanks you very much for your reply to my question regarding cost effective
EMC facility. Your suggestions/opinions are very helpful for me to find out
the right thing for our organization. 

It seems that compact anechoic chamber are favoured by many of you. I will
try to look for more information about the chamber, in particular the cost,
and see whether my manager are willing to invest the money.

Best Regards

Qu Pingyu


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RE: cost effective EMC facility

1999-08-02 Thread Price, Ed

Arun:

I was just struck by what you said about setup a Sea Plane or a salt water
based  site . Has anyone ever set up an OATS using salt water as the ground
plane? Talk about excellent surface smoothness, easy to level and cheap
material, plus simple repair! (Uhh, could we say it fixes itself?)

Just what conductivity would be enough? Could we get enough conductivity
before we reach salt saturation? 

I suppose the upper limit on surface area would be when we get to the point
of the wind causing surface ripples. Or gravitational tides.

Turntables might be a lot cheaper, too. Just a thin raft that floats.

Seriously, has anyone tried this for an OATS? (I seem to recall the US Navy
had a really big ship simulator here in San Diego, where they placed scale
models of ships on a sheet-steel sea in order to model HF wire antennas.)

Regards,

Ed

:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):
-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Ed Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
619-505-2780 (Voice)
619-505-1502 (Fax)
Military  Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):
-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

 -Original Message-
 From: Arun Kaore [SMTP:kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au]
 Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 6:05 PM
 To:   'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
 Subject:  FW: cost effective EMC facility
 
 
 IMHO, there is no cost effective EMC facility, but you don't have to spend
 all your bucks all in the one day. A sound and well managed EMC business
 growth program could see you through.
 
 Start off with pre compliance and eventually branch off into formal
 compliance (by drafting up a Quality System to ISO 25 or whatever, a few
 test procedures and a few Quality and third party Technical Audits)
 
 Buy a 2nd hand shielded room today with a view to lining it with ferrite
 tiles and/or RAM material such that you meet the Radiated Immunity 16
 point
 check for immunity and alternative sites 3 m NSA for emissions. Initial RE
 prescans could be done here.
 
 Buy a 26 GHz cheap ($25000/-!!) analyser (without preselector) driven by
 software for now and then go for a $10/- preselectable receiver
 suitable
 for formal CISPR measurements and also MIL 462  related work. 
 
 Start off with a chicken wire mesh car park OATS and improve later; not
 much
 hope in Singapore because of the ambients, but you could always go to
 Malaysia or setup a Sea Plane or a salt water based  site (you will get
 very
 good NSA, probably won't need NSA).
 
 Lastly, performing ESD, EFT and Surge tests in a shielded room/ anechoic
 chamber will make you very popular among your colleagues because of the
 additional filtering within the shielded room.
 
 
 Regards
 
 Arun Kaore
 EMC Engineer
 
 ADI Limited
 Systems Group
 Test  Evaluation Centre
 Forrester Road, St Marys NSW 2760
 P O Box: 315, St Marys NSW 1790
 
 Tel: 61 2 9673 8375
 Fax: 61 2 9673 8321
 Email: kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au mailto:kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Qu Pingyu [SMTP:pin...@ime.org.sg] mailto:[SMTP:pin...@ime.org.sg]
 
 Sent: Friday, 30 July, 1999 18:38
 To:   'emc'
 Subject:  cost effective EMC facility
 
 
 Hello, everyone:
 I posted an question several weeks ago asking about GTEM. Thanks those who
 share with me your experience. I may not address my problem very clearly
 thus I would like to come back to you one more time.
 We are a R  D orgnization in Singapore mainly dealing with semiconductor
 industry. Since there are some requirements from our industry partners in
 the area of EMC design, we are considering setting up some EMC measurement
 capabilities. At the intial stage, we will only consider equipment for
 radiated emission/susceptibility testing. Our objective is to evaluate the
 EMC performance of the product from our customers, being of PCB level or
 system level. Based on those results, we can help our customers to improve
 their product EMC design so that their product can pass the final
 compliance
 testing. The EUT could be small, such as integrated circuits on PCB, but
 it
 can also be large such as a PC. Due to our budget constraint, I think GTEM
 maybe a good choice. Do you guys agree ? If not, any other suggestions ?  
 Thanks in advance.
 Best Regards
 Qu Pingyu
 
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 subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org mailto:majord...@ieee.org
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 mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com , or roger.volgst...@compaq.com
 mailto:roger.volgst...@compaq.com  (the list administrators).
 
 
 -
 This 

RE: Rockwell Modem, need info.?

1999-08-02 Thread Russell, Ray

Hi George,

I my experience, I have used the UL Yellow books to verify UL recognition
and to determine which standards it is recognized to. If I still have
trouble, I have called UL direct, and they have always been helpful. 

Ray

rayruss...@gastmfg.com

-Original Message-
From: sparaci...@andovercontrols.com
[mailto:sparaci...@andovercontrols.com]
Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 10:43 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Rockwell Modem, need info.?



Good Day Everyone,

I'm having a heck of a time getting compliance information from Rockwell
regarding one of their Socket Modems
(SMV144AC series). We incorporratte this modem onto our motherboard. Simply,
I need to know if the Rockwell modem that we use in our product has been
recognized to either UL 1459 or UL 1950. I would like to treat the modem as
a recognized component in my system.

No compliance info on their literature, so I contacted the local Rockwell
office in Littleton, Ma.  and they referred me back to our distributor who
has not been able to get a response back from Rockwell...  Also, I contacted
Rockwell headquarters in Newport Beach, CA ... they referred me to their
local office in Littleton.  Are we sensing a pattern here ??

If anyone has the name  contact info of someone at Rockwell that can help,
please forward to me.

Thanks for any help you can give me  have a Great Weekend.
George


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RE: EMC Safety Standards

1999-08-02 Thread WOODS, RICHARD

My comments are embedded below.

--
From:  Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [SMTP:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br]
Sent:  Monday, August 02, 1999 2:43 PM
To:  Lista de EMC da IEEE
Subject:  EMC  Safety Standards


Dear Group,

I'm making a study on EMC  Safety Standards, and some questions
appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can
help
me. The questions are:

# Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment...
And
the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for
protection
of the user/operator?

The international safety standard that is used for Information
Technology Equipment and Business Equipment is IEC950. Many countries have
adopted this standard as their national standard. The objective of the
standard is to prevent all types of hazards including electrical shock,
fire, mechanical, chemical, thermal and radiation hazards. The protection
applies to the operator and to service persons.

# The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms
(ENs)??

I understand that the VCCI standards are EMC standards. Japan has
adopted IEC safety standards including IEC950. However, as many countries
do, they have introduced national deviations. You would have to compare
Japan's deviations to those of the EU to determine how they affect your
equipment.  All of these deviations may be found in the CB Bulletin which is
published by the IEC.

# Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing
Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health?

ICNIRP Guidelines:1998
IEEE C95.1:1991
ENV 50166-1:1995 
ENV 50166-2:1995
NRPB Vol 4. No. 5:1993
VDE 0848-2:1982
VDE0848-4:1989
ACGIH Guidelines:1999



I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help!


Best Regards, 

Muriel
-- 

==
Muriel Bittencourt de Liz
GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos
Eletromagnéticos
Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina
Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL
Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790
e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br
ICQ#: 9089332

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EMC Safety Standards

1999-08-02 Thread Muriel Bittencourt de Liz

Dear Group,

I'm making a study on EMC  Safety Standards, and some questions
appeared. I'd like to post them to the group to see if someone can help
me. The questions are:

# Safety standards seem only to aim the protection the equipment... And
the operator/user of the equipment? Is there any standard for protection
of the user/operator?

# The VCCI Standard is more restrictive than the European Norms (ENs)??

# Is there any standard which covers the effects of Non-Ionizing
Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation) on the human health?

I think that's all... Thanks in advance for those who can help!


Best Regards, 

Muriel
-- 
==
Muriel Bittencourt de Liz
GRUCAD - Grupo de Concepção e Análise de Dispositivos Eletromagnéticos
Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina
Caixa Postal - 476 88040-900 - Florianópolis - SC - BRASIL
Fone: +55.48.331.9649 - Fax: +55.48.234.3790
e-mail: mur...@grucad.ufsc.br
ICQ#: 9089332

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Australia vs. New Zealand

1999-08-02 Thread Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)

Greetings,

Does anyone know what the differences there are between the New Zealand and
Australian EMC regulations?  I know they are trying to harmonize but if
someone could either tell me or point me to a web page it would certainly be
appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan



___

Daniel W. Biggs
Test Engineer
HW Development Process
Engineering Services
daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com


GE Fanuc Automation
PO Box 8106
Charlottesville, VA  22906
PH:  (804) 978-6946  
Fax:  (804) 978-5588


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Bellcore Production Requirements

1999-08-02 Thread Graff, Rob

All,

I have been asked by my supervisor to find out if there is a Bellcore
(Telcordia) specification for production procedures and practices.  I know
there was one at one time but am not sure if it remains.

The question he asked me was Does the Bellcore specification for ambient
temperature change during burn-in of equipment, that will be sale to a
customer, limit the change to .5 degrees Celsius per minute?  I know the
requirements for GR-63 but am wondering about manufacturing requirements.

Thanks for your time,

Rob Graff
rgr...@corvis.com


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RE: NSA (using acid)

1999-08-02 Thread Mike Cantwell, PE


Muriatic acid is made up of 50% HCl (hydrochloric acid) and 
50% water. Diluting it with water is fine.


Thanks,

Mike Cantwell, PE
RheinTexas, Inc.
Suite 150
1701 East Plano Parkway
Plano, TX 75074
mailto:mcantw...@rheintexas.com
Web Site: http://www.RheinTech.com
Tel: (972) 509-2566
Fax: (972) 509-0073

-Original Message-
From:   Brian At Work [SMTP:bkundew...@qtm.net]
Sent:   Thursday, July 29, 1999 3:20 PM
To: EMC and Safety list
Subject:Re: NSA (using acid)


A quick question.

Between the muriatic acid and the acid flux that is used to 
clean the screen
material, will water dilute the acid good enough to stop 
its reaction or
should you use something like soda to counteract it? One 
responder said not
to use water but to just blow it off with compressed air. 
Won't the acid
continue to eat away at the material?

Thanks,
Brian


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RE: Public Telephone access

1999-08-02 Thread WOODS, RICHARD

Doug, virtually every country in the world has its own regulations. My
recommendation is that you obtain an external modem in each target
country/area. The best source of information would be to contact a large
modem company. Check Compliance Engineering magazine. I have seen some
consultants listed there.

--
From:  POWELL, DOUG [SMTP:doug.pow...@aei.com]
Sent:  Friday, July 30, 1999 7:19 PM
To:  'emc-pstc'
Subject:  Public Telephone access


Hello group,

Recently I was reviewing a new product that my company plans to
manufacture.
It has an industrial CPU board and a modem daughter board.  During
the
review my safety consultant brought up the concept that not all
public
access telephone systems are the same and we would need a modem card
that is
approved for use in each country where we sell our product.  

My compliance experience is mainly in power delivery system and this
is new
to me.  The consultant said that an ISDN compatible card would take
care of
most of Europe but was unsure about the rest of the world.  I was
hoping one
(or more) of you could tell me where I can begin searching for
information
on this topic, web or otherwise.

Thanks,

-doug

===
Douglas E. Powell, Compliance Engineer
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 USA
---
970-407-6410  (phone)
970-407-5410  (e-fax) 
mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com
http://www.advanced-energy.com
===

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FW: cost effective EMC facility

1999-08-02 Thread Arun Kaore

IMHO, there is no cost effective EMC facility, but you don't have to spend
all your bucks all in the one day. A sound and well managed EMC business
growth program could see you through.

Start off with pre compliance and eventually branch off into formal
compliance (by drafting up a Quality System to ISO 25 or whatever, a few
test procedures and a few Quality and third party Technical Audits)

Buy a 2nd hand shielded room today with a view to lining it with ferrite
tiles and/or RAM material such that you meet the Radiated Immunity 16 point
check for immunity and alternative sites 3 m NSA for emissions. Initial RE
prescans could be done here.

Buy a 26 GHz cheap ($25000/-!!) analyser (without preselector) driven by
software for now and then go for a $10/- preselectable receiver suitable
for formal CISPR measurements and also MIL 462  related work. 

Start off with a chicken wire mesh car park OATS and improve later; not much
hope in Singapore because of the ambients, but you could always go to
Malaysia or setup a Sea Plane or a salt water based  site (you will get very
good NSA, probably won't need NSA).

Lastly, performing ESD, EFT and Surge tests in a shielded room/ anechoic
chamber will make you very popular among your colleagues because of the
additional filtering within the shielded room.


Regards

Arun Kaore
EMC Engineer

ADI Limited
Systems Group
Test  Evaluation Centre
Forrester Road, St Marys NSW 2760
P O Box: 315, St Marys NSW 1790

Tel: 61 2 9673 8375
Fax: 61 2 9673 8321
Email: kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au mailto:kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au 

-Original Message-
From:   Qu Pingyu [SMTP:pin...@ime.org.sg] mailto:[SMTP:pin...@ime.org.sg]

Sent:   Friday, 30 July, 1999 18:38
To: 'emc'
Subject:cost effective EMC facility


Hello, everyone:
I posted an question several weeks ago asking about GTEM. Thanks those who
share with me your experience. I may not address my problem very clearly
thus I would like to come back to you one more time.
We are a R  D orgnization in Singapore mainly dealing with semiconductor
industry. Since there are some requirements from our industry partners in
the area of EMC design, we are considering setting up some EMC measurement
capabilities. At the intial stage, we will only consider equipment for
radiated emission/susceptibility testing. Our objective is to evaluate the
EMC performance of the product from our customers, being of PCB level or
system level. Based on those results, we can help our customers to improve
their product EMC design so that their product can pass the final compliance
testing. The EUT could be small, such as integrated circuits on PCB, but it
can also be large such as a PC. Due to our budget constraint, I think GTEM
maybe a good choice. Do you guys agree ? If not, any other suggestions ?  
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards
Qu Pingyu

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Reliability MIL HDBK 217

1999-08-02 Thread Arun Kaore

Hello all

I am overwhelmed with the help I got from you all, this short note is to
express my thanks !!

Regards

Arun Kaore
EMC Engineer

ADI Limited
Systems Group
Test  Evaluation Centre
Forrester Road, St Marys NSW 2760
P O Box: 315, St Marys NSW 1790

Tel: 61 2 9673 8375
Fax: 61 2 9673 8321
Email: kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au mailto:kao...@sg.adi-limited.com.au 

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