component spacing question
I wanted to pose the group a question in regards to spacing requirements for the U.S. Many UL standards allow for the exception of components (such as semi conductors, switches, etc) to not meet spacing requirements (as they usually have different standards they meet anyways) The question is what about PCB trace spacing for those components, such as a capacitor in a switching power supply to ground. High voltage, the components is an exception, but what about the pads under the component, are they required to meet the spacing requirements, or would that fall under the component exception? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken Matsuda --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: we need some information
David- I took the liberty of adding proper punctuation to your note, since I, too, had nothing better to do. Thank you. -Original Message- From: david_inst...@uk.xyratex.com [mailto:david_inst...@uk.xyratex.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 2:03 AM To: Cortland Richmond Cc: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; ieee pstc list Subject:Re: we need some information Just a litle pet hate of mine, but ball BEARINGS consist of both the races AND the STEEL BALL (or plastic sometimes). But that little round bit we all like to use as missiles or for the game of marbles is a BALL, not a ball BEARING. Cortland Richmond wrote: > > Slingshot? Heh! Used a CRT focussing coil with a Lionel train transformer, > actually. By quickly making and breaking the connections I could time the > current so it would accelerate the ball bearing smartly. > > Cortland > > == Original Message Follows > > >> Date: 28-Nov-00 06:20:06 MsgID: 1077-5083 ToID: 72146,373 > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com >INTERNET:michael.sundst...@nokia.com > Subj: RE: we need some information > Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: StdReceipt: NoParts: 1 > > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com > Subject: RE: we need some information > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:16:19 -0600 > > A slingshot? > > == End of Original Message = > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org -- Regards Dave Instone. Compliance Engineer Test Systems, MP24/22 Xyratex, Langstone Rd., Havant, Hampshire, P09 1SA, UK. Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496862 (direct line) Fax: +44 (0)23-92-496014 http://www.xyratex.com Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496000 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
EN60068-2-32 procedure 2
Hi GroupNov 29.00 Can some one give the general description of what type of test that EN60068-2-32 procedure 2 calls for. I have not yet received my copy of EN600068 and would not like to get a jump-start. Thank you in advance. Sincerely Stig W. Jorgensen --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: we need some information
Actually, I had quite a collection of old electronic and telegraph instruments, gotten from a local junkyard of which our landlord was the owner. Alas, my small collection was junked while I was in the Army. My grandmother had my stuff and when she moved, instead of asking me to take it back, sent it all -- including my first radio, a homemade two-tube receiver -- to the trash. I'd imagine many of us have such memories from our youth. People who do things they are interested in, last longer at them. Cortland == Original Message Follows Reply-To: From: "Michael Mertinooke" Subject: RE: we need some information List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:04:50 -0500 >Heh! Used a CRT focussing coil with a Lionel train transformer, actually. >By quickly making and breaking the connections I could time the >current so it would accelerate the ball bearing smartly. And where did we get our CRT focusing coil? Hmm? You must have been SOME kid to raise! == End of Original Message = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: we need some information
Here's Webster's Second Edition New World Dictionary definition: ball bearing 1. a bearing in which the moving parts revolve or slide on freely rolling metal balls so that friction is reduced 2. any of such metal balls I think, however, that it would be more appropriate and descriptive to identify these objects by any of the following: BALL, BEARING (military form) BEARING BALL BALL BEARING BALL Ross ;) -Original Message- From: david_inst...@uk.xyratex.com [mailto:david_inst...@uk.xyratex.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:03 AM To: Cortland Richmond Cc: michael.sundst...@nokia.com; ieee pstc list Subject: Re: we need some information Just a litle pet hate of mine, but ball BEARINGS consist of both the races AND the STEEL BALL (or plastic sometimes) but that little round bit we all like to use as missiles or for the game of marbles is a BALL not a ball BEARING. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: we need some information
I'll note this and attempt to be more accurate in the future. Hopefully, it will reduce your hatred to a mere peeve. Regards, Cortland == Original Message Follows >> Date: 29-Nov-00 02:01:29 MsgID: 1077-5554 ToID: 72146,373 From: dinst...@uk.xyratex.com >INTERNET:dinst...@uk.xyratex.com Subj: Re: we need some information Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: StdReceipt: NoParts: 1 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:02:35 + From: david_inst...@uk.xyratex.com (David Instone) Reply-To: dinst...@uk.xyratex.com Subject: Re: we need some information Just a litle pet hate of mine, but ball BEARINGS consist of both the races AND the STEEL BALL (or plastic sometimes) but that little round bit we all like to use as missiles or for the game of marbles is a BALL not a ball BEARING. Cortland Richmond wrote: > > Slingshot? Heh! Used a CRT focussing coil with a Lionel train transformer, > actually. By quickly making and breaking the connections I could time the > current so it would accelerate the ball bearing smartly. > > Cortland > > == Original Message Follows > > >> Date: 28-Nov-00 06:20:06 MsgID: 1077-5083 ToID: 72146,373 > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com >INTERNET:michael.sundst...@nokia.com > Subj: RE: we need some information > Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: StdReceipt: NoParts: 1 > > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com > Subject: RE: we need some information > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:16:19 -0600 > > A slingshot? > > == End of Original Message = > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org -- Regards Dave Instone. Compliance Engineer Test Systems, MP24/22 Xyratex, Langstone Rd., Havant, Hampshire, P09 1SA, UK. Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496862 (direct line) Fax: +44 (0)23-92-496014 http://www.xyratex.com Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496000 **Primary Recipient: Cortland Richmond 72146,373 == End of Original Message = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Japan Telecom Homologations; Test Reports in Japanese!
Dear All, I have heard rumors that the Japanese homologation requires test reports (such as IEC 950 CB Test Report) be translated into Japanese. Has anyone passed Japanese homologations without test reports translated into Japanese? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: IEC 61000-3-2 & -3-3
My comments re Woodgate was confsuing. What I meant to say was the transformerless SMPS s appear to generate considerable nosie as opposed to the passive transformer. Is anyone concerned about this noise? Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: "Ralph Cameron" To: "Dick Grobner" ; "IEEE EMC-PSTC E-Mail Forum (E-mail)" Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 11:14 PM Subject: Re: IEC 61000-3-2 & -3-3 > > J.M.Woodgate's comments are very appropriate to identify where all the > conducted noise is coming from in consumer residences but does nothing to > mitigate the problem. The unfiltered SMPS used for replacement of the old > reliable non noise generating physical transformer contributes little or no > noise. > > As soon as some of these high efficiency" noise (e.g. Halogen /Xenon > lighting supplies) generators start truning the "Samrt House " concept into > a Haunted House, watch the brickbats fly. > > Ralph Cameron > EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronics > (After sale) > > p.s. That goes for the trasnformerless supplies in treadmills too. > > - Original Message - > From: "Dick Grobner" > To: "IEEE EMC-PSTC E-Mail Forum (E-mail)" > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:50 PM > Subject: IEC 61000-3-2 & -3-3 > > > > > > > > > > At the web address below you will find an article written by J.M. Woodgate > > dealing with 61000-3-2 & -3. This may be of interest to some on this forum > > as I know the issue seems to surface about every other week. > > Happy Reading! > > > > > > http://www.conformity-update.com/iec-61000-000908.htm > > > > Dick Grobner > > Compliance Engineering > > Medical Graphics Corporation > > 350 Oak Grove Parkway > > St Paul, MN 55127 > > 651-766-3395 > > 651-766-3389 (fax) > > dick.grob...@medgraph.com > > > > > > > > --- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > > > > > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: End of Line Testing of IT Equipment
Tony, I have added my thoughts below in brackets [ ] .. reynolto%pb@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/29/2000 06:01:50 AM Please respond to reynolto%pb@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: End of Line Testing of IT Equipment All, What are the exact requirements for End of Line testing and do they differ from country to country. We currently subject products to the following tests: 1. Earth Bonding at 25A (resistance to be less than 0.1 Ohms) [IEC 60950 and like standards specify (section 2.5.11) a test current of 1.5 times the current capacity of the hazardous circuit, but not to exceed 12V applied or 25A. For example, if the resistance were 0.1 ohm, an applied voltage of 2.5V would create the maximum current of 25A.] 2. Dielectric strength test of 2.1KVDC for 2 seconds. [Section 5.3.2, Note 1, of IEC 60950 allows for an electric strength test of 1 sec for production purposes. In practice, it may take 2-3 seconds for the voltage to ramp up and be sustained at the desired level. Table 18 (same section) lists the values required, depending on the type of insulation used and the expected working voltage.] 3. Insulation resistance test of 500VDC (resistance to be greater than 10MOhms). [It is my understanding that the electric strength, at higher voltages, is a sufficient test of the insulation, including creepage and clearance distances. I am not aware of any additional production tests required for insulation.] Question Is this last test mandatory for product compliance in UK/Europe/USA/Rest of the World? Kind Regards Tony Reynolds Principal Compliance Engineer Pitney Bowes Ltd The Pinnacles Harlow Essex CM19 5BD Tel +44 1279 449479 Fax +44 1279 449118 E-Mail: reyno...@pb.com www.pitneybowes.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: End of Line Testing of IT Equipment
I'm sure we have been through this all before, but here goes : For equipment certified by UL and CSA (and I assume by other agencies, but I have no personal experience), the End of Line Tests will be specified as part of your certification. For Europe, there is EN 50116, which "defines the routine electrical safety tests and their procedures to be applied during or after the manufacturing process of equipment certified or declared as complying with EN 60950." This requires the Earth Bonding Test at 1.5 times the current capacity of the circuit, but not more than 25A, with the 0.1 ohm limit, and an electric stregth test of 1500V ac or the dc equivalent, for basic insulation, and 3000V or the dc equivalent for reinforced insulation, with the proviso that "testing of components connected between the primary and secondary circuits shall be performed before final assembly". (i.e. it is ok to use power supplies where the transformers, etc, have been 100% tested at 3000V). There is no Insulation Resistance Test specified, and I am unaware of any such requirement for IT products. Regards, John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Kingsway West, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 3XX E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. > -Original Message- > From: Tony Reynolds [SMTP:reyno...@pb.com] > Sent: 29 November 2000 11:02 > To: emc-p...@ieee.org > Subject: End of Line Testing of IT Equipment > > > All, > > What are the exact requirements for End of Line testing and do they > differ from country to country. We currently subject products to the > > following tests: > > 1. Earth Bonding at 25A (resistance to be less than 0.1 Ohms) > > 2. Dielectric strength test of 2.1KVDC for 2 seconds. > > 3. Insulation resistance test of 500VDC (resistance to be greater > than > 10MOhms). > > Question > > > Is this last test mandatory for product compliance in > UK/Europe/USA/Rest of the World? > > > Kind Regards > > Tony Reynolds > Principal Compliance Engineer > Pitney Bowes Ltd > The Pinnacles > Harlow > Essex > CM19 5BD > Tel +44 1279 449479 > Fax +44 1279 449118 > E-Mail: reyno...@pb.com > www.pitneybowes.com > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
End of Line Testing of IT Equipment
All, What are the exact requirements for End of Line testing and do they differ from country to country. We currently subject products to the following tests: 1. Earth Bonding at 25A (resistance to be less than 0.1 Ohms) 2. Dielectric strength test of 2.1KVDC for 2 seconds. 3. Insulation resistance test of 500VDC (resistance to be greater than 10MOhms). Question Is this last test mandatory for product compliance in UK/Europe/USA/Rest of the World? Kind Regards Tony Reynolds Principal Compliance Engineer Pitney Bowes Ltd The Pinnacles Harlow Essex CM19 5BD Tel +44 1279 449479 Fax +44 1279 449118 E-Mail: reyno...@pb.com www.pitneybowes.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: we need some information
Just a litle pet hate of mine, but ball BEARINGS consist of both the races AND the STEEL BALL (or plastic sometimes) but that little round bit we all like to use as missiles or for the game of marbles is a BALL not a ball BEARING. Cortland Richmond wrote: > > Slingshot? Heh! Used a CRT focussing coil with a Lionel train transformer, > actually. By quickly making and breaking the connections I could time the > current so it would accelerate the ball bearing smartly. > > Cortland > > == Original Message Follows > > >> Date: 28-Nov-00 06:20:06 MsgID: 1077-5083 ToID: 72146,373 > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com >INTERNET:michael.sundst...@nokia.com > Subj: RE: we need some information > Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: StdReceipt: NoParts: 1 > > From: michael.sundst...@nokia.com > Subject: RE: we need some information > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:16:19 -0600 > > A slingshot? > > == End of Original Message = > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org -- Regards Dave Instone. Compliance Engineer Test Systems, MP24/22 Xyratex, Langstone Rd., Havant, Hampshire, P09 1SA, UK. Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496862 (direct line) Fax: +44 (0)23-92-496014 http://www.xyratex.com Tel: +44 (0)23-92-496000 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: IEC 61000-3-2 & -3-3
J.M.Woodgate's comments are very appropriate to identify where all the conducted noise is coming from in consumer residences but does nothing to mitigate the problem. The unfiltered SMPS used for replacement of the old reliable non noise generating physical transformer contributes little or no noise. As soon as some of these high efficiency" noise (e.g. Halogen /Xenon lighting supplies) generators start truning the "Samrt House " concept into a Haunted House, watch the brickbats fly. Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) p.s. That goes for the trasnformerless supplies in treadmills too. - Original Message - From: "Dick Grobner" To: "IEEE EMC-PSTC E-Mail Forum (E-mail)" Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:50 PM Subject: IEC 61000-3-2 & -3-3 > > > > At the web address below you will find an article written by J.M. Woodgate > dealing with 61000-3-2 & -3. This may be of interest to some on this forum > as I know the issue seems to surface about every other week. > Happy Reading! > > > http://www.conformity-update.com/iec-61000-000908.htm > > Dick Grobner > Compliance Engineering > Medical Graphics Corporation > 350 Oak Grove Parkway > St Paul, MN 55127 > 651-766-3395 > 651-766-3389 (fax) > dick.grob...@medgraph.com > > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
