Flicker problem

2001-03-01 Thread Ray Levasseur



I have a number of products that must meet the requirements of EN 61000-3-3 
for voltage fluctuation but I am having problems complying. The failure 
happens when a vacuum pump is switched on during a cycle of the machine and 
then it is switched off. The inrush that occurs is about 35 amps with a 
running current of 5 amps. We switch the pump on and off with a SSR zero 
crossing. I would like to solve this problem with the least cost to meet the 
test requirement. I have tried powering the pump with a 25ohm power resistor 
in series and a time delay relay to switch the resistor out. This works 
reasonably well and reduces the inrush to 10 amps but the time delay relay I 
am using is about $60 and it doesn't have a high enough current rating for 
the contacts to use it in production. I will be getting in a Crydom SST soft 
start relay combination to try but it has other implementation problems such 
as my control voltage is +24 Vdc and it is rated to +10 Vdc plus the soft 
start module is not VDE approved so it might not have the creepage require 
to satisfy the safety guys. Does anyone have a suggestion such as a 
certified soft start relay or some elegant fix that I could implement. I 
would appreciate any comments or personal triumphs in solving flicker 
problems. The circuit specs are; AC input 200-240Vac, pump current 5 amps, 
control +24Vdc.


Thanks,
Ray Levasseur
EMC Compliance
CreoScitex
_
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Re: Harmonics - A14 revision

2001-03-01 Thread John Woodgate

3.0.6.32.20010301104158.007f5...@mail.cinepower.com, Enci
e...@cinepower.com inimitably wrote:


When is the next revision due and can you tell us anything more about it?

It will probably be published in 2003 or 2004 and become mandatory  in
Europe 3 years later.

As yet there is no text other than 'housekeeping' text. But there is a
great deal of work going on in order to produce a realistic, consensual
standard. Limits will need to be fully justified technically.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839
Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from 
tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me.

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Re: Battery terminals isolation

2001-03-01 Thread John Woodgate

008a01c0a262$97a76a80$0f133ad8@zi8755, Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net
inimitably wrote:
How about an insulated wrench?

Missing, just when you want it.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839
Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from 
tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me.

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Re: SLIM

2001-03-01 Thread Bill Lyons

In message 002301c0a16a$27dbdea0$9641c0c1@oemcomputer
   Brian Jones writes:

 The seventh draft of the revised EMC Directive has been produced by the
 European Commission for discussion at the meeting of the EMC Working Party
 on 6-7 March 2001.  This meeting of member state governments (with some
 representation from industry) is one of a regular series, the SLIM Working
 Group having held its last meeting in November 2000 with EMCD2000.6 being
 the final outcome.
 
 The main change in 2000.7 is the removal of the various options.  The
 options selected in 2000.7 are  FI2, NB1, ED1, ENV3 and HS1.  These are of
 course open to debate and change at the meeting.

In my view two of the option selections are seriously mistaken and I hope 
those able to debate and (hopefully) change will reconsider them:

The adoption of ED1 rather than ED2:  The phrase technically competent 
could become an excuse for introducing licensing or registration.  As 
well as increasing the cost of compliance, the possibility of different 
licensing/registration criteria applying in different Member States would 
constitute a barrier to trade.  

More important, the adoption of HS1 is seriously wrong as it mandates the 
use of the methods the harmonised standard describes or refers to 
without provision for the use of equivalent or newly evolved methods that 
may be simpler, cheaper and/or use existing test equipment rather than 
that mandated in the standard.  

Bill Lyons

-- 
Bill Lyons - b...@lyons.demon.co.uk / w.ly...@ieee.org
Claude Lyons Limited, Brook Road, Waltham Cross, Herts EN8 7LR, UK
Tel: +44 1992 768 888   http://www.lyons.demon.co.uk
Fax: +44 1992 769 849   http://www.claudelyons.co.uk


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RE: Fiber optic Compliance

2001-03-01 Thread Pete Perkins

Cortland, et al;

Fiber optic cable is provided with fire resistant  lo smoke coatings, 
just
like other cable...  this is usually specified for installations...
generally the driver device folks don't supply the fiber optic cable, but...

The copper to fiber optic converters usually contain lasers and need to
comply to North American (CDRH  Can equivalent) and Euro 825 laser
requirements...

Component suppliers usually provide component recognition on their unit 
to
aid the equipment suppliers in their certification process...  (and to keep
the equipment suppliers from digging into the design of their unit too
deeply)...

Some equipment suppliers also want some level of NEBS certification of 
the
FO driver unit, too...

Wot else???

  br, Pete

  Peter E Perkins, PE
  Principal Product Safety Consultant
  Tigard, ORe 97281-3427
  503/452-1201 fone/fax
  p.perk...@ieee.org



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Re: HP684XA harmonics analyser software

2001-03-01 Thread Jim Conrad
Hi Chris,

I spoke with Agilent in Rockaway a couple of weeks ago and they assured me they 
will be addressing A14 with a software update.  That is the good news.  
However, it will not be ready for another 4 -6 months!!!

Best regards,

Jim


Colgan, Chris wrote on 2/28/01 8:41 am:


Hi all

Does anyone know if Agilent have written a software upgrade (for A14 of 
EN61000-3-2) for their harmonics analysers yet?  The Agilent website won't tell 
and their contact link is broken.

Regards

Chris Colgan
Compliance Engineer
TAG McLaren Audio Ltd
The Summit, Latham Road
Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU
*Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627
*Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159
* Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com  http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com



**  Please visit us 
at www.tagmclarenaudio.com
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Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU
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Re: Battery terminals isolation

2001-03-01 Thread Ralph Cameron

John:

How about an insulated wrench?

Ralph Cameron
EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronics
(After sale)

- Original Message -
From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Battery terminals isolation



 sa9d1398.077@sao0002n, SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO
 sergioro...@siemens.com.br inimitably wrote:
 Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of
lead acid
 battery terminals?
 We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of
the
 batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to
be
 replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors
touch
 the enclosure and the positive of the batteries.
 Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the
 batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this
is
 sufficient.

 I don't know of anything explicit in any standard, but the consequences
 of shorting a 48 V battery could be very serious, up to loss-of-life.
 Therefore I would think in terms of the General Safety Directive, which
 says, in effect, 'make it safe, then make it safer'. So:

 - put a warning notice **next to the battery** saying 'Disconnect THIS
 terminal first.' Don't rely on a drunken blind, idiot knowing which is
 the negative one.

 - if possible, fix to the negative connector a plastic shield that
 covers up the positive terminal and connector, so you can't even get at
 the positive terminal without first removing the negative one. If you
 need to be able to measure the battery voltage with a multimeter, put a
 small hole in the shield that will just admit a test-prod.

 You could perhaps put the warning notice on the shield itself.
 --
 Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839
 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from
 tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me.

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RE: RTTE Directive

2001-03-01 Thread Wismer, Sam

Hi Amund,
I am not familiar with this type of device, however if you have confirmed
that all standards that apply to the device are harmonized under the
directive, you are correct that you can apply Annex III of the directive
without the assistance of a NB.  You are correct again that since the
frequency band is not harmonized throughout the EU, you must Notify each
member state of your intention to place the product on their market.  Since
you are using non-harmonized frequency bands, you must also apply the alert
symbol on your device alerting the user that there are restrictions to the
use of this device in some countries.  Those restrictions should be placed
on your label and in the operators guide.



~
Sam Wismer
Lead Regulatory Engineer/
Radio Approvals Engineer
LXE, Inc.
(770) 447-4224 Ext. 3654

Visit Our Website at:
http://www.lxe.com



-Original Message-
From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 4:29 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Cc: wo...@sensormatic.com
Subject: RE: RTTE Directive



Hi all,

Regarding RTTE and the NB role, we have this case: 

1. Product: Satellite transmitter/reveicer, KU-band (10-14GHz)
2. Harmonized standards exist

As far as I understand, we do not need a NB for certification. Apply annex
III 
and issue a DoC.
If the product shall be put into marked in EU countries, which the KU-band 
is not harmonized, a statement must be forwarded to the national
authorities 
that the product soon will be introduced to the marked.
Wait 4 weeks, no responds, you can go on selling.

Am I right or am I totally  ?

The last one, any WEB-site that describes the Harmonized Frequency bands ?

Best regards
Amund Westin 



On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:55:15 -0500 wo...@sensormatic.com wrote:

A representative is necessary if the manufacture is not resident in the EU.
That entity keeps the technical file and performs any other duties
expressly
assigned by the manufacturer. This procedure is not related to any
procedural requirements to use or not use a Notified Body. A Notified Body
is needed if Annex III, IV or V applies. For example, our product is a
short
range device where the spectrum standard has not been published; so we must
follow Annex IV and use a Notified Body. However, once the standard is
harmonized, we will switch to following Annex III and a Notified Body will
not be required.

Richard Woods

--
From:  Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com]
Sent:  Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:07 PM
To:  emcpost
Subject:  RTTE Directive


Hello group,

I have been reading through different articles on the RTTE Directive and
getting somewhat confused. I have concluded that there is no requirement
for
an authorized representative within the Community any longer. This may have
been the case all along, but it was good to have that person to submit the
technical files to a notified body. I believe the notified body requirement
goes away with the RTTE directive also. Now all that is required is for the
manufacturer to maintain the technical file and produce the Declaration of
Conformity. Am I on the right page?

Thanks,

Courtland Thomas
Patton Electronics


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To cancel 

Re: Harmonics - A14 revision

2001-03-01 Thread Enci

At 21:33 28/02/01 +, John Woodgate wrote:

31891b757c09184bbfec5275f85d55950b0...@cceexc18.americas.cpqcorp.net,
Lesmeister, Glenn glenn.lesmeis...@compaq.com wrote:
Why should all equipment need harmonic control when only some equipment
cause problems?

That's what the Amendment A14 to EN61000-3-2 (also voted positive by a
majority of IEC P-members) attempts to address. The next revision will
go even further.

Hi John, 

When is the next revision due and can you tell us anything more about it?

Regards,
Enci









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RE: RTTE Directive

2001-03-01 Thread amund

Hi all,

Regarding RTTE and the NB role, we have this case: 

1. Product: Satellite transmitter/reveicer, KU-band (10-14GHz)
2. Harmonized standards exist

As far as I understand, we do not need a NB for certification. Apply annex III 
and issue a DoC.
If the product shall be put into marked in EU countries, which the KU-band 
is not harmonized, a statement must be forwarded to the national authorities 
that the product soon will be introduced to the marked.
Wait 4 weeks, no responds, you can go on selling.

Am I right or am I totally  ?

The last one, any WEB-site that describes the Harmonized Frequency bands ?

Best regards
Amund Westin 



On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:55:15 -0500 wo...@sensormatic.com wrote:

A representative is necessary if the manufacture is not resident in the EU.
That entity keeps the technical file and performs any other duties expressly
assigned by the manufacturer. This procedure is not related to any
procedural requirements to use or not use a Notified Body. A Notified Body
is needed if Annex III, IV or V applies. For example, our product is a short
range device where the spectrum standard has not been published; so we must
follow Annex IV and use a Notified Body. However, once the standard is
harmonized, we will switch to following Annex III and a Notified Body will
not be required.

Richard Woods

--
From:  Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com]
Sent:  Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:07 PM
To:  emcpost
Subject:  RTTE Directive


Hello group,

I have been reading through different articles on the RTTE Directive and
getting somewhat confused. I have concluded that there is no requirement for
an authorized representative within the Community any longer. This may have
been the case all along, but it was good to have that person to submit the
technical files to a notified body. I believe the notified body requirement
goes away with the RTTE directive also. Now all that is required is for the
manufacturer to maintain the technical file and produce the Declaration of
Conformity. Am I on the right page?

Thanks,

Courtland Thomas
Patton Electronics


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Revisions to 98/37/EC

2001-03-01 Thread Nick Williams


The EC have finally published the proposals for revisions to 98/37/EC 
(the Machinery Directive). The document can be downloaded from


http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/mechan_equipment/machinery/direct 
/proposal_en.pdf


I've not had time to read it yet, but it looks evolutionary rather 
than revolutionary.


Nick.


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RE: Harmonics

2001-03-01 Thread Bill Lyons

Glenn,

One answer is that one PC on its own can't be a problem, 200 PC's in 
different locations can in total have an effect on the supply system (and 
thus on other equipment connected to it - so with items in widespread use 
some individual product limit is needed) but with 200 PC's in a single 
location the total harmonic current drawn may be sufficient to cause 
serious site problems.  Other examples we've been involved with include 
banks, trading floors, etc.  

A good analogy would be with leakage current.  Even if a single device 
meets the product spec, supplying a number of devices in parallel (e.g. 
thru a socket strip) might be sufficient to exceed safe limits and trip 
protective devices.

So site-level harmonic mitigation is a neccessary intermediate step 
between control of individual items of equipment at one end and 
protection of the supply system at the other.

I expect John Woodgate can explain this much better than me!

Regards,

Bill Lyons
Claude Lyons Limited

Claude Lyons Limited, Brook Road, Waltham Cross, Herts EN8 7LR, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1992 768 888   email: b...@lyons.demon.co.uk
Fax: +44 (0)1992 769 849   URL:   http://www.claudelyons.co.uk

-Original Message-
From: Lesmeister, Glenn glenn.lesmeis...@compaq.com
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Harmonics
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:06:15 -0600


There may be a lot more to the story, but it sounds like the HRT is doing a
good job.  It also sounds like the frequency converter was the culprit and
not the 200 PC's (or whatever) that was also connected to the power system.
Why should all equipment need harmonic control when only some equipment
cause problems?

Regards,

Glenn Lesmeister
Product Regulatory Compliance

Compaq Computer Corp.   Tel: 281-514-5163
20555 SH 249, MS60607   Fax: 281-514-8029
Houston,  TX 77070-2698 Pgr: 713-786-4930
glenn.lesmeis...@compaq.com

I am empowered to do what makes sense!

 -Original Message-
From:   m...@cjbdev.demon.co.uk [mailto:m...@cjbdev.demon.co.uk] 
Sent:   Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:48 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:RE: Harmonics


This month's Electrical Review (a free trade magazine in the UK) 
has just fallen on my desk, with this text and its associated 
picture taking up about a fifth of the area of the front page - I'm 
quoting it just for interest with regard to this thread!

Perfect Harmony?  Power conditioning equipment specialist 
Claude Lyons has installed a 200A harmonic rejection 
transformer at RAF Lakenheath to reduce the problems caused 
by harmonic currents.  The recent installation of a frequency 
converter had caused harmonic distortion on the low-voltage 
network.  Cables were overheating and equipment was failing.  
The HRT was specified to redirect the harmful currents.  After 
installation, Claude Lyon monitored the unit and found a 
reduction in the production of harmonic currents - from 72 to 
19A in the main neutral cable.

Regards, Mark

PS Disclaimer: any copyright breaches are my fault (in my 
ignorance) and not those of my employer.

--
Mark Hone

  Wellman CJB Limited  Email: m...@cjbdev.demon.co.uk
  Airport Service Road Tel: +44 (0)2392 629239 (Direct)
  Portsmouth, HampshireTel: +44 (0)2392 664911
  PO3 5PG, ENGLAND Fax: +44 (0)2392 697864




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