RE: Australia Standards
Hi George, You could also try Testing and Certification Australia at http://www.tcaust.com/elecsafe.htm for some advise. As the name implies, they are a test house. Cameron O'Phee. EMC Safety Precompliance. Aristocrat Technologies Australia. Telephone : +61 2 9697 4420 Facsimile : +61 2 9663 1412 Mobile : 0418 464 016 -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: 26 July, 2001 4:53 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Australia Standards I appreciate the many on-line and off-line reponses you provided! However, many have cited http://www.standards.com.au/ as the place I need. Unfortunately, I had already been there, done that, and it is merely the amazon.com equivalent for Australia standards. I don't need to order any standards, but needed to communicate with a real live product safety standards engineer relative to a limited number of external power supplies (AC/DC adapters) being used for test purposes prior to offiical AS/NZ certification. Sufficient information was received that I may be able to get the answer to my question. Thanks, George --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE -- This email is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. The information contained in this e-mail message may be confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, distribution, disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. Confidentiality attached to this communication is not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and notify us by return e-mail or telephone Aristocrat Technologies Australia Pty Limited on +61 2 9413 6300. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Measurement of ITE (How long should it take?)
All, The 1991 version of ANSI C63.4 requires the six highest emissions within 20 dB of the limit are to be reported. If none are within 20 dB of the limit then it requires the background noise of six representative frequencies. I feel that once one has determined the maximum amplitude of the emission, it is just as easy to record the reading. Rocky -)-(- Davis, Mike mike_da...@adc.com 07/18/01 01:30PM I thank you all who responded. The responses went along with what I had expected. My guess is that if you want to save a dime during the test, desperate for a test report of your compliant product, you may collect only those few data points necessary to show that the product meets the requirement(s). Or, take as many as you can use for future comparison review, analysis and test history. I find that most test labs have intentionally practiced collecting most if not all data points within 20dB below the limit. I also believe that to be a good thing. Many Non-Compliance engineers or managers find watching a testing engineer collecting numerous data points through-out the band in question hard to digest, among other things. That is just my opinion. Thanks again! -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:42 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Measurement of ITE (How long should it take?) 95d210e03433d51188a60008c7169407995...@mn02exch02.adc.com, Davis, Mike mike_da...@adc.com inimitably wrote: I have a question. How many data points are required to be collected and reported for ITE equipment for FCC Part 15 and for EN directives? Foe Europe, ALL that is required is that the Declaration of Conformity is TRUE. It's entirely up to the manufacturer (and the responsibility CANNOT be delegated) to ensure that it IS true. No more detailed requirements are imposed. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why not call a vertically- applied manulo-pedally-operated quasi-planar chernozem-penetrating and excavating implement a SPADE? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, Kenneth P. Gonzalez Validation Manager SCI Systems, Inc. Plant 1 Technology Division, Commercial Engineering Huntsville, Al 35802 Phone (256) 882-4514 Fax (256) 882-4017 BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Gonzalez, Kenneth EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:kenneth.gonza...@sci.com N:Gonzalez;Kenneth X-GWUSERID:Kenneth_Gonzalez END:VCARD
Australia Standards
I appreciate the many on-line and off-line reponses you provided! However, many have cited http://www.standards.com.au/ as the place I need. Unfortunately, I had already been there, done that, and it is merely the amazon.com equivalent for Australia standards. I don't need to order any standards, but needed to communicate with a real live product safety standards engineer relative to a limited number of external power supplies (AC/DC adapters) being used for test purposes prior to offiical AS/NZ certification. Sufficient information was received that I may be able to get the answer to my question. Thanks, George --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Ethernet Lockout Tagout
Greetings, Does anyone know of a lockout/tag out cover that is small enough to be used with Cat 5 cable and RJ 45 connectors? This would in practice have a cable entry diameter of less than ½ (12.7mm). Thanks to all in advance. Alan Brewster Senior Systems Safety Engineer Novellus Systems, Inc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: How Safe ???
Speaking of frivolous litigation, safety and otherwise, it seems that financial gain (particularly on the part of the lawyer) is the motivator as often as stupidity. This link has many such stories. http://www.overlawyered.com/ Regards, George Stults WatchGuard Technologies Inc. -Original Message- From: oover...@lexmark.com [mailto:oover...@lexmark.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:How Safe ??? In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the behavior of other students who he'd seen bash the machine to score a free Mountain Dew and besides someone at the school probably knew the machine was kinda tippy and folks at the vending machine company probably knew those old models weren't as completely secure as the newer versions. But hey, it's not like the machines were malevolent capsizing demons just lying in wait for the next hapless student to come along and breathe on them wrong and then, whump. It is not as if this laptop computer right here in front of me is right this minute poised to to electrocute me if I decide to slam the lid repeatedly to get it to unfreeze. See that big bookshelf in the library? Pull on it too hard, it'll probably fall over on you. Should you sue the shelf manufacturer? The book authors? Gravity? What if our college boy had climbed atop the Coke machine and jumped off and broken his neck? Is the manufacturer responsible? The shoe company? The concrete floor? Where do you draw the line? This is the ultimate question. It's an ever-shifting line in the sand of human stupidity, a vague cultural boundary defining how much we expect our products and corporations to protect us from ourselves and how much we're willing to be answerable for our actions, a line dividing how logic-impaired we're willing to admit we sometimes are and how responsible a given corporation should be for dumping shoddy and/or dangerous products on the market without warning. In a perfect world (like, you know, Atlantis), it's a fair distribution of both, an equal balance of good faith: people take full responsibility for their lives and actions and don't blame the government or the media or God or big mean corporations when they themselves are caught in incredibly dumb behavior; and concomitantly, thuggish corporations and the government take full responsibility for their products and services and don't try to duck and shirk and scam and dance around the law and pretend
RE: Australia Safety Agency Contact
The followinfg web site is for Standards Australia formerly known as Standards Association of Australia Regads Ken Beck http://www.standards.com.au/ -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 6:29 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Australia Safety Agency Contact Fellow PSEs, I need to ask a question about exporting a prototype AC/DC Adapter to Australia for evaluation prior to official certification of the equipment. It is my understanding that I need to contact the Standards Association of Australia (SAA), but cannot find a website or other contact info via the internet. Does anyone have such information at hand? Regards, George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Australia Safety Agency Contacting
Hi George, If you mean Standards Australia, there's a link to their site on the Safety Link www.safetylink.com (Perhaps they changed their name.) Regards, Art Michael * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * International Product Safety Bookshop * * Check out our current offerings! * * http://www.safetylink.com/bookshop.html * * * * Now offering BSI's Books Reports* * including, World Electricity Supplies * * * * Another service of the Safety Link* * www.safetylink.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 geor...@lexmark.com wrote: Fellow PSEs, I need to ask a question about exporting a prototype AC/DC Adapter to Australia for evaluation prior to official certification of the equipment. It is my understanding that I need to contact the Standards Association of Australia (SAA), but cannot find a website or other contact info via the internet. Does anyone have such information at hand? Regards, George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: How Safe ???
... Just for the record, in the case against McDonalds, that particular McDonalds had be cited several times prior by inspectors for keeping their coffee too hot, they repeatedly paid the fine and ignored the warnings The law suit was long overdue (PS, I do agree with you though on most of the points you make) John Juhasz jjuhasz@Fiberoptions.cTo: 'oover...@lexmark.com' oover...@lexmark.com, omemc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordomSubject: How Safe ??? o.ieee.org 07/25/01 09:51 AM Please respond to John Juhasz Bravo! Now if we can get lawyers and judges to read this. Is there a legal listserv to send this too? Oops! Wait a minute. Might get sued for sending spam . . . . -Original Message- From: oover...@lexmark.com [mailto:oover...@lexmark.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: How Safe ??? In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the
RE: How Safe ???
There are stability tests in UL751 - Vending machines, which I have in my fantastic filing system. (Just in case anyone thought my products - Automated Teller Machines, were vending machines). I can't be sure if they are also in UL541 - Refrigerated Vending machines - since I don't have a copy. Regards, John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Kingsway West, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 3XX E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: oover...@lexmark.com [mailto:oover...@lexmark.com] Sent: 25 July 2001 13:26 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: How Safe ??? In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the behavior of other students who he'd seen bash the machine to score a free Mountain Dew and besides someone at the school probably knew the machine was kinda tippy and folks at the vending machine company probably knew those old models weren't as completely secure as the newer versions. But hey, it's not like the machines were malevolent capsizing demons just lying in wait for the next hapless student to come along and breathe on them wrong and then, whump. It is not as if this laptop computer right here in front of me is right this minute poised to to electrocute me if I decide to slam the lid repeatedly to get it to unfreeze. See that big bookshelf in the library? Pull on it too hard, it'll probably fall over on you. Should you sue the shelf manufacturer? The book authors? Gravity? What if our college boy had climbed atop the Coke machine and jumped off and broken his neck? Is the manufacturer responsible? The shoe company? The concrete floor? Where do you draw the line? This is the ultimate question. It's an ever-shifting line in the sand of human stupidity, a vague cultural boundary defining how much we expect our products and corporations to protect us from ourselves and how much we're willing to be answerable for our actions, a line dividing how logic-impaired we're willing to admit we sometimes are and how responsible a given corporation should be for dumping shoddy and/or dangerous products on the market without warning. In a perfect world (like, you know, Atlantis), it's a fair distribution of both, an equal balance of good faith: people take full responsibility for their lives and actions and don't blame the government or the media or God or big mean corporations when they
How Safe ???
Bravo! Now if we can get lawyers and judges to read this. Is there a legal listserv to send this too? Oops! Wait a minute. Might get sued for sending spam . . . . -Original Message- From: oover...@lexmark.com [mailto:oover...@lexmark.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:26 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: How Safe ??? In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the behavior of other students who he'd seen bash the machine to score a free Mountain Dew and besides someone at the school probably knew the machine was kinda tippy and folks at the vending machine company probably knew those old models weren't as completely secure as the newer versions. But hey, it's not like the machines were malevolent capsizing demons just lying in wait for the next hapless student to come along and breathe on them wrong and then, whump. It is not as if this laptop computer right here in front of me is right this minute poised to to electrocute me if I decide to slam the lid repeatedly to get it to unfreeze. See that big bookshelf in the library? Pull on it too hard, it'll probably fall over on you. Should you sue the shelf manufacturer? The book authors? Gravity? What if our college boy had climbed atop the Coke machine and jumped off and broken his neck? Is the manufacturer responsible? The shoe company? The concrete floor? Where do you draw the line? This is the ultimate question. It's an ever-shifting line in the sand of human stupidity, a vague cultural boundary defining how much we expect our products and corporations to protect us from ourselves and how much we're willing to be answerable for our actions, a line dividing how logic-impaired we're willing to admit we sometimes are and how responsible a given corporation should be for dumping shoddy and/or dangerous products on the market without warning. In a perfect world (like, you know, Atlantis), it's a fair distribution of both, an equal balance of good faith: people take full responsibility for their lives and actions and don't blame the government or the media or God or big mean corporations when they themselves are caught in incredibly dumb behavior; and concomitantly, thuggish corporations and the government take full responsibility for their products and services and don't try to duck and shirk and scam and dance around the law and pretend they had no idea nicotine was lethal or their SUV tires exploded. Instead we've devolved into a famously litigious culture that rewards
Australia Safety Agency Contact
Fellow PSEs, I need to ask a question about exporting a prototype AC/DC Adapter to Australia for evaluation prior to official certification of the equipment. It is my understanding that I need to contact the Standards Association of Australia (SAA), but cannot find a website or other contact info via the internet. Does anyone have such information at hand? Regards, George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
How Safe ???
In light of the recent e-traffic on labels, warnings, and litigation I think that this is a good article. A better rant than I could write (and have written). When you need a break ... ___ By Mark Morford morning...@sfgate.com All contents, except the swearing and the random blasphemy, (tm) (c) 2001 Hearst Communications Inc. MARK'S NOTES ERRATA Where opinion meets benign syntax abuse... *** Twenty-one-year-old college student bangs and rocks and tilts 900-pound Coke machine to dislodge a can of soda. Coke machine finally tips over on top of college student. College student dies. College student's parents sue Coca-Cola, vending-machine manufacturer, and school, claiming there should've been some sort of warning. The gods of Fate and Destiny shake their heads and sigh. This is a true story. Coke begins placing cautionary stickers on vending machines: Warning: Tipping may cause injury or death. This part is also true. Many employees at the vending machine company undoubtedly got a good laugh out of this, wondered what's next, stickers on fine cutlery saying Warning: Inserting butcher knife into body may cause injury or death? Or perhaps on large bridges: Warning: Leaping off may cause death or at least a bad headache. Buses? Warning: Do not step in front of this vehicle or you might die in a manner everyone jokes about and then how would you feel? The list goes on, and it too may cause injury or death. Oh how the jokes were flying, yes indeed, much like they probably were at snide ol' McDonald's HQ a few years back when that old woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was too hot and it burned her and everyone knows coffee is supposed to be lukewarm and pleasing and mild. She won her case. The jokes stopped. And the cynicism began. And let us pause for a moment to pay our respects to what must be a horrendous level of sadness and loss for the family in question, what can only be a miserable and terrible event in the life of a parent. There is genuine sorrow and rage here and the need to assign blame and of course it can't be laid at the feet of the college student in question because he was clearly the innocent victim of a malicious vending machine attack and we as humans can *not* be held responsible for our frequent lapses of judgement or common sense, can we? Can we? Because after all this kid was just being a typical mindless male and was likely just following the behavior of other students who he'd seen bash the machine to score a free Mountain Dew and besides someone at the school probably knew the machine was kinda tippy and folks at the vending machine company probably knew those old models weren't as completely secure as the newer versions. But hey, it's not like the machines were malevolent capsizing demons just lying in wait for the next hapless student to come along and breathe on them wrong and then, whump. It is not as if this laptop computer right here in front of me is right this minute poised to to electrocute me if I decide to slam the lid repeatedly to get it to unfreeze. See that big bookshelf in the library? Pull on it too hard, it'll probably fall over on you. Should you sue the shelf manufacturer? The book authors? Gravity? What if our college boy had climbed atop the Coke machine and jumped off and broken his neck? Is the manufacturer responsible? The shoe company? The concrete floor? Where do you draw the line? This is the ultimate question. It's an ever-shifting line in the sand of human stupidity, a vague cultural boundary defining how much we expect our products and corporations to protect us from ourselves and how much we're willing to be answerable for our actions, a line dividing how logic-impaired we're willing to admit we sometimes are and how responsible a given corporation should be for dumping shoddy and/or dangerous products on the market without warning. In a perfect world (like, you know, Atlantis), it's a fair distribution of both, an equal balance of good faith: people take full responsibility for their lives and actions and don't blame the government or the media or God or big mean corporations when they themselves are caught in incredibly dumb behavior; and concomitantly, thuggish corporations and the government take full responsibility for their products and services and don't try to duck and shirk and scam and dance around the law and pretend they had no idea nicotine was lethal or their SUV tires exploded. Instead we've devolved into a famously litigious culture that rewards competing acts of idiocy, whereby the more ignorant you can prove you are (I had no idea the machine would tip over on me if I continued to rock it violently back and forth, Your Honor), the more likely you are to earn a nice hefty settlement and warm approval from a populace whose collective intelligence will now be further degraded by yet
RE: Vibration Perceived as Shock
Hi all, I don't think you need to read any papers on the subject, unless you really need gory details. It's a fairly simple idea. The reason shock can be mistaken for vibration and vice versa is due to the fact that most shocks are from AC power. When you get shocked by AC, your nerves get a 60 cycle (or 50 cycle) AC stimulus. If it doesn't kill you, it feels like a tingle or buzz or vibration. The tingling/buzzing/vibration sensation is also probably increased by the fact that tiny muscles near the shock site will spasm (I believe the medical term is a fascillation) with the AC voltage. A 50 cycle or 60cycle vibration would feel very similar. Not all shocks feel like vibrations. For instance an electric fence used for cattle uses a capacitor discharge mechanism which results in a quick, exponentially decaying, discharge. (much like ESD) I know from personal experience that touching such a fence feels nothing like a vibration. It feels more like a a jolt, sort of like having every muscle in your body contract and getting a migraine headache for about half a second, then it's gone, leaving you in a cold sweat with your heart pounding. Steve Irwin (Of TV's Crocodile Hunter) would probably say Whoo-hoo, what a rush!. I used to say %$^*($$$@@@ next time I'll let my brother open the gate to get the cows! There's no mistaking that for a vibration! I would imagine that lightning would feel nothing like a vibration either. But I really don't want to find out. Another example to think about is the old 9V battery on the tongue test. If you put a 9V battery on your tongue, it feels like a constant burning sensation, no vibration feeling, because it's DC. Chris --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Trying to locate AC Power Tap and a Power Supply
Dear All, I am trying to help a client locate the following: 1) a ac max 250 V power tap (up to 6 outlets) with an appliance inlet as the input and inverse IEC320 type outlets for the outputs; with or without overcurrent protection in the primary. The device must be UL approved (Recognition or Listing) and VDE or TUV approved (Bauart or GS). 2) an ac switching power suply with two 15 V outputs and two 5 V outputs. The power supply must be UL Recognized and VDE or TUV Bauart approved. Any help would be mostly appreciated. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Laser Pointers
What EMC/emission standards for the US and Europe do laser pointers fall under? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: SONET ESD performance
Hi Scott and the group, Just a thought... If the equipment you are testing responds unfavorably to something the environment, it does not matter that you pass GR-1089. And, I have seen lots of stuff that affected lightwave equipment not covered under 1089 that got the operating companies pretty upset. For example, jingling change (we had a discussion some time ago on this list about this), but there are others. The customer expects the equipment to work the way he wants, not the way we design or the marketing org sells it, or the way it is tested. Give me a call or send email and I will briefly fill you in on what I have seen. It would be difficult to type it all here. Doug Scott Lemon wrote: Hi group, I am looking for guidance with respect to allowable service-affecting responses for a SONET system (e.g. OC-48) when tested to GR-1089 ESD immunity requirements. GR-1089 R2-3 states that service-affecting responses, unless within system operating limits,...shall not occur. Para. 2.3 gives maximum of one errored second per discharge as a limit on bit errors, but no other specific guidance. Anyone out there willing to share their GR-1089 pass/fail criteria for ESD testing on a SONET system with respect to performance during the discharge?? Are there any documents that are recommended as reference? Thanks in advance! Regards, Scott Lemon sle...@caspiannetworks.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, -- --- ___ _ Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 = Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457 _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o |Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org --- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
SONET ESD performance
Hi group, I am looking for guidance with respect to allowable service-affecting responses for a SONET system (e.g. OC-48) when tested to GR-1089 ESD immunity requirements. GR-1089 R2-3 states that service-affecting responses, unless within system operating limits,...shall not occur. Para. 2.3 gives maximum of one errored second per discharge as a limit on bit errors, but no other specific guidance. Anyone out there willing to share their GR-1089 pass/fail criteria for ESD testing on a SONET system with respect to performance during the discharge?? Are there any documents that are recommended as reference? Thanks in advance! Regards, Scott Lemon sle...@caspiannetworks.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Vibration Perceived as Shock
Hi Tania and Richard: When you find out any papers on this subject, please share with us. I stumbled across a short, authoritative discussion about why a mechanical vibration can feel like a small electric shock. Actually, it is the other way around. At small voltages and currents, the stimulation is a mechanical stimulation, not an electrical one. This quote is from: Applied electricity from electrical stimulation to electropathology by J. Patrick Reilly Springer Verlag New York ISBN 0-387-98407-0 * 7.1 Introduction Sensory sensitivity to electrical stimulation depends on a host of factors associated with the stimulus waveform, its method of delivery, and subjective variables. In most situations involving electrical safety or acceptability, current is applied to the body by cutaneous electrodes. There are also practical applications in which electric current may be applied subcutaneously or induced internally by external electromagnetic fields. Although the emphasis in this chapter is on electrocutaneous stimulation, many of the principles discussed may be applied to other modes of stimulation. The reader is directed to Chapter 9 for additional discussion of peripheral nerve stimulation by time-varying magnetic field effects or by induced shock within intense electric field environments. In addition to sensory effects described in this chapter, stimulation by electric current and electromagnetic fields can also elicit visual and auditory sensations. These will be treated in Sect. 9.8. 7.2 Mechanisms of Electrical Transduction Current of a fraction of a microampere can be detected when the finger is gently drawn across a surface charged with small AC potentials (Grimnes, 1983b). Such levels are roughly 100 times less than commonly tested electrical thresholds. Detection of such small current results from electromechanical forces arising from electrostatic compression across the stratum corneum (the outermost layer of dead skin cells). As analyzed by Grimnes, the electrostatic force K is AEV**2 K = --- 2d**2 (7.1) where A is the contact area, E is the dielectric constant of the corneum, d is its thickness, and v is the instantaneous voltage. The compression of the corneum would not normally be sensed. But when the skin is moved along the charged surface, there is a vibratory frictional force on the finger that is maximized on each half-cycle of the alternating voltage. This vibrational force stimulates mechanoreceptors and is responsible for the detection of microampere currents. Grimnes estimates that the minimum voltage contributing to a detectable vibration is about 1.5V at 5OHz. The detection of microampere currents through mechanical vibration is, for most purposes, of passing interest, although it may be important for a researcher to know about it when designing perception tests. Of greater significance is the mode of detection when the current level is raised to roughly 0.1 mA or above. At that point, perception can be initiated by the electrical excitation of neural structures, according to the mechanisms discussed in Chapters 3 and 4. Exactly what is excited with electrocutaneous stimulation, and what is the specific site of initiation? At the lowest levels of stimulation, it is likely that peripheral structures are involved, because these are closest to the surface electrode. Among fiber classes, the larger- diameter myelinated fibers have the lowest electrical thresholds, and circumstantial evidence presented in this chapter points to the involvement of one or another class of mechanoreceptor. The precise site of cutaneous electrical stimulation is unknown; whether stimulation is initiated at the axon proper, at the site of the generator potential of sensory receptors, or along free nerve endings has not been demonstrated. Some evidence, however, exists, as noted in Chapter 4, that the site of initiation is near neural end structures, including receptors or free nerve endings. Electrocutaneous perception is a local phenomenon; subjects typically report sensation occurring locally at the electrode site rather than remotely as might be supposed if the excitation occurred on the axons of deeper-lying nerves. It is only when the current is raised substantially above the perception level that distributed sensations are felt. If the current is raised sufficiently above the threshold of perception, excitation of unmyelinated nociceptors becomes possible. Because of their higher electrical thresholds and generally deeper sites, these structures are not likely to be involved at perception threshold levels. At still higher current levels (some tens of milliamperes for long-duration stimuli), thermal detection due to tissue heating becomes possible. Neuroelectric thresholds may exceed thermal thresholds if the waveform of the electric current is inefficient for electrical stimulation,
