Re: EN 55011 vs EN 55022
One of the principal differences between the standards is the Ant. distance. EN 55011 uses antenna distances of 10 and 30 meters. Some products may be allowed to be tested at only 3 meters, but you haven't told us what the EUT is, so I cannot say. John Konrad Stefanski kstef...@poczta.onet.To: emc-pstc emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org pl cc: Sent by: Subject: EN 55011 vs EN 55022 owner-emc-pstc@majordo mo.ieee.org 01/04/1999 01:23 PM Please respond to Konrad Stefanski Hello. Maybe one of you have article about differences in radiated emission measurements acc. to EN 55011 and 55022. I would like to know why I couldn'd measure radiated emission acc. to EN 55011 in 3m semi-anechoic chamber. Thanks in advance This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Class 1 AC/DC adapter
I have seem a number of class 1 AC/DC switching power supply adapters for electronic apparatus. From outlook, it looks similar to class 2 adapter - plastic case. The obvious difference is that there is a grounding pcb containing a large area of copper track soldered on the solder side of master pcb. The side facing to the solder side has no copper track at all. The grounding pcb is connected to the earth terminal of the mains female connector on one end and to the earth of the DC output plug on the other end. I have following queries and seeking advice. 1. Function of the grounding plate The primary and the secondary is reinforced insulation and withstands over 3000Vac. Is this plate to change the whole safety protection system from class 2 to class 1? Or the plate is primarily for EMC suppression? 2. Earth continuity test After the unit is completely assembled, should we conduct the test between the earth terminal of the mains plug and the earth of DC output plug? 3. Hipot test As the unit is classified as class 1, 1,500 Vac is applied between the earth terminal of the mains female connector and the earth of the DC output plug. Actually, the primary and secondary can withstand 3000 Vac. Is it correct test voltage to apply after the unit is completely assembled? Thanks and regards, Raymond Li OSA
RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter
In event of single fault condition, the accessible conductive parts become hazardous, and the protection is provided by Earth ground. Then yes, ground bond test to confirm the continuity of protection by earth ground. On the other hand if single fault harzadous voltage accessible conductive part not protect by earth ground, it will be considered as a failure. Chengwee From: john.radom...@modicon.com [mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 12:45 PM To: ChengWee Lai Cc: EMC PSTC Subject: RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter Earth Continuity or ground bond testing with 25A or higher is not applicable with plastic case and not applicable at the DC output side. It was meant to check the earth protection continuity of a metal chassis. The bond test is applicable to any accessible conductive parts that might assume a HAZARDOUS VOLTAGE in the event of a single fault, not only to chassis. John Radomski Principal Engineer Schneider Electric ChengWee Lai c...@netscreen.com To: 'raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk' raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk, EMC Sent by: PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter 10/24/2003 02:03 PM Please respond to ChengWee Lai Raymond, In regards to your question, 1. I am guessing what you meant is a seperate PCB, about the size of the power supply main PCB, either on top or on the bottom side. Copper plate on one side only. If that is the case, it was designed to lower the emission. I am not sure how effective it is, but I see people doing it. As long as there are ground connection, it would considered as class I. The plate can't be view as one of the protection in your case. 2. Earth Continuity or ground bond testing with 25A or higher is not applicable with plastic case and not applicable at the DC output side. It was meant to check the earth protection continuity of a metal chassis. 3. I believe you will have to use 3000Vac or 4242Vdc between primary and secondary side, unless you have a failure, then there are steps to go through to isolate the failure. Here is a page I made during my years in power supply industry, it should answer to many of your question. Standard reference might be old, but principle is still the same. http://www.phihong.com/html/safety_compliance.html Take care, Chengwee Lai Netscreen Technologies, Inc Tel: +1-408-543-4126 email: c...@netscreen.com -Original Message- From: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk [mailto:raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: Class 1 AC/DC adapter I have seem a number of class 1 AC/DC switching power supply adapters for electronic apparatus. From outlook, it looks similar to class 2 adapter - plastic case. The obvious difference is that there is a grounding pcb containing a large area of copper track soldered on the solder side of master pcb. The side facing to the solder side has no copper track at all. The grounding pcb is connected to the earth terminal of the mains female connector on one end and to the earth of the DC output plug on the other end. I have following queries and seeking advice. 1. Function of the grounding plate The primary and the secondary is reinforced insulation and withstands over 3000Vac. Is this plate to change the whole safety protection system from class 2 to class 1? Or the plate is primarily for EMC suppression? 2. Earth continuity test After the unit is completely assembled, should we conduct the test between the earth terminal of the mains plug and the earth of DC output plug? 3. Hipot test As the unit is classified as class 1, 1,500 Vac is applied between the earth terminal of the mains female connector and the earth of the DC output plug. Actually, the primary and secondary can withstand 3000 Vac. Is it correct test voltage to apply after the unit is completely assembled? Thanks and regards, Raymond Li OSA This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute:
RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter
Earth Continuity or ground bond testing with 25A or higher is not applicable with plastic case and not applicable at the DC output side. It was meant to check the earth protection continuity of a metal chassis. The bond test is applicable to any accessible conductive parts that might assume a HAZARDOUS VOLTAGE in the event of a single fault, not only to chassis. John Radomski Principal Engineer Schneider Electric ChengWee Lai c...@netscreen.com To: 'raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk' raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk, EMC Sent by: PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordocc: mo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter 10/24/2003 02:03 PM Please respond to ChengWee Lai Raymond, In regards to your question, 1. I am guessing what you meant is a seperate PCB, about the size of the power supply main PCB, either on top or on the bottom side. Copper plate on one side only. If that is the case, it was designed to lower the emission. I am not sure how effective it is, but I see people doing it. As long as there are ground connection, it would considered as class I. The plate can't be view as one of the protection in your case. 2. Earth Continuity or ground bond testing with 25A or higher is not applicable with plastic case and not applicable at the DC output side. It was meant to check the earth protection continuity of a metal chassis. 3. I believe you will have to use 3000Vac or 4242Vdc between primary and secondary side, unless you have a failure, then there are steps to go through to isolate the failure. Here is a page I made during my years in power supply industry, it should answer to many of your question. Standard reference might be old, but principle is still the same. http://www.phihong.com/html/safety_compliance.html Take care, Chengwee Lai Netscreen Technologies, Inc Tel: +1-408-543-4126 email: c...@netscreen.com -Original Message- From: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk [mailto:raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: Class 1 AC/DC adapter I have seem a number of class 1 AC/DC switching power supply adapters for electronic apparatus. From outlook, it looks similar to class 2 adapter - plastic case. The obvious difference is that there is a grounding pcb containing a large area of copper track soldered on the solder side of master pcb. The side facing to the solder side has no copper track at all. The grounding pcb is connected to the earth terminal of the mains female connector on one end and to the earth of the DC output plug on the other end. I have following queries and seeking advice. 1. Function of the grounding plate The primary and the secondary is reinforced insulation and withstands over 3000Vac. Is this plate to change the whole safety protection system from class 2 to class 1? Or the plate is primarily for EMC suppression? 2. Earth continuity test After the unit is completely assembled, should we conduct the test between the earth terminal of the mains plug and the earth of DC output plug? 3. Hipot test As the unit is classified as class 1, 1,500 Vac is applied between the earth terminal of the mains female connector and the earth of the DC output plug. Actually, the primary and
RE: Denmark AC outlets
Dear Richard, In reply to your question whether the regulations allow the Schuko plug or require the Danish plug, I believe the answer lays in the standard AFSNIT 107-2-D1. I do not have it, however if you check this page from The Electricity Council: http://www.elraadet.dk/view.asp?ID=161 http://www.elraadet.dk/view.asp?ID=161 you will see that for Class I equipment, you have the choice between different standard sheets (well, I guess normblad means standard sheet). normblad C 2b - 10/16 A europæisk stikprop med jord (såkaldt Schukostikprop) is, I guess, the Schuko plug. Can anyone reading Danish confirm this? Alain Giga-Byte From: richwo...@tycoint.com [ mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:53 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Denmark AC outlets I have heard that Danish regulations allow Type A pluggable Class 1 equipment to be installed without a ground connection as long as it is not located in a wet location. An allowable example would be such equipment that uses a Shuko plug. Does Denmark really allow this or do the regulations require the use of a Danish certified plug? Even if the practice is allowed, it would seem to me that a company should specify that its professionally installed equipment must use of a Danish plug in order to minimize liability to the company. What do you think? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter
I am assuming that you are attempting to comply with 60950... First, please observe the Conditions of Acceptibility stated in the manufacurer's installation instructions. If the mfr says the p.s. is a Class 1 device, the end-installation must be conform to Class 1, or you must provide an enclosure and limiting circuits that allow Class 2 use. Di-electric withstand Type Test levels for the p.s. are determined by class of required insulation and measured Working Voltage. Routine test levels for the p.s. may not be reduced in magnitude, only in time. 60950 infers the requirement to perform di-electric withstand for Routine Test in note 1 of clause 5.2.2, for all Type Tests required by the standard. So you do need to do hi-pot from input to output, and from input to chassis and/or enclosure. luck, Brian -Original Message- From: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk [ mailto:raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: Class 1 AC/DC adapter I have seem a number of class 1 AC/DC switching power supply adapters for electronic apparatus. From outlook, it looks similar to class 2 adapter - plastic case. The obvious difference is that there is a grounding pcb containing a large area of copper track soldered on the solder side of master pcb. The side facing to the solder side has no copper track at all. The grounding pcb is connected to the earth terminal of the mains female connector on one end and to the earth of the DC output plug on the other end. I have following queries and seeking advice. 1. Function of the grounding plate The primary and the secondary is reinforced insulation and withstands over 3000Vac. Is this plate to change the whole safety protection system from class 2 to class 1? Or the plate is primarily for EMC suppression? 2. Earth continuity test After the unit is completely assembled, should we conduct the test between the earth terminal of the mains plug and the earth of DC output plug? 3. Hipot test As the unit is classified as class 1, 1,500 Vac is applied between the earth terminal of the mains female connector and the earth of the DC output plug. Actually, the primary and secondary can withstand 3000 Vac. Is it correct test voltage to apply after the unit is completely assembled? Thanks and regards, Raymond Li OSA
RE: Class 1 AC/DC adapter
Raymond, In regards to your question, 1. I am guessing what you meant is a seperate PCB, about the size of the power supply main PCB, either on top or on the bottom side. Copper plate on one side only. If that is the case, it was designed to lower the emission. I am not sure how effective it is, but I see people doing it. As long as there are ground connection, it would considered as class I. The plate can't be view as one of the protection in your case. 2. Earth Continuity or ground bond testing with 25A or higher is not applicable with plastic case and not applicable at the DC output side. It was meant to check the earth protection continuity of a metal chassis. 3. I believe you will have to use 3000Vac or 4242Vdc between primary and secondary side, unless you have a failure, then there are steps to go through to isolate the failure. Here is a page I made during my years in power supply industry, it should answer to many of your question. Standard reference might be old, but principle is still the same. http://www.phihong.com/html/safety_compliance.html Take care, Chengwee Lai Netscreen Technologies, Inc Tel: +1-408-543-4126 email: c...@netscreen.com From: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk mailto:raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: Class 1 AC/DC adapter I have seem a number of class 1 AC/DC switching power supply adapters for electronic apparatus. From outlook, it looks similar to class 2 adapter - plastic case. The obvious difference is that there is a grounding pcb containing a large area of copper track soldered on the solder side of master pcb. The side facing to the solder side has no copper track at all. The grounding pcb is connected to the earth terminal of the mains female connector on one end and to the earth of the DC output plug on the other end. I have following queries and seeking advice. 1. Function of the grounding plate The primary and the secondary is reinforced insulation and withstands over 3000Vac. Is this plate to change the whole safety protection system from class 2 to class 1? Or the plate is primarily for EMC suppression? 2. Earth continuity test After the unit is completely assembled, should we conduct the test between the earth terminal of the mains plug and the earth of DC output plug? 3. Hipot test As the unit is classified as class 1, 1,500 Vac is applied between the earth terminal of the mains female connector and the earth of the DC output plug. Actually, the primary and secondary can withstand 3000 Vac. Is it correct test voltage to apply after the unit is completely assembled? Thanks and regards, Raymond Li OSA
EN 55011 vs EN 55022
Hello. Maybe one of you have article about differences in radiated emission measurements acc. to EN 55011 and 55022. I would like to know why I couldn'd measure radiated emission acc. to EN 55011 in 3m semi-anechoic chamber. Thanks in advance
Re: Denmark AC outlets
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Rich, The Shuko plug will not fit the special Danish grounded outlet. The Shuko pins are 4.8mm round pins and the special Danish grounded socket outlet will only accept the special Danish grounding type plug with unique (almost flat) pins. Here are some details I copied off the Feller web page. The top is the Danish plug, the bottom is the Shuko Rgds, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: richwo...@tycoint.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:20 AM Subject: RE: Denmark AC outlets Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin, earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a Shuko plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be protected? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets Hi all I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. The situation is not so simple. It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, type of equipment etc. 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type themselves. 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at the moment. 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use grounded plugs. 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Raadgivning Denmark -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. Wellman Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout Denmark. I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I guess. The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to thinking the world revolves around those two categories. Best Regards, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 - Original Message - From: Ronald R. Wellman rwell...@wellman.com To: aiken ai...@gulftel.com; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets Hello Lou, You mention that In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark. Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish plugs for Denmark without any problems for TM equipment. In fact, I had requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark but only the Danish power cords. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: Rich, That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the world. That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group does not have to down load it. The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket outlets but only where they are considered necessary. The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia NZ. Over the years I have observed that where the national
SV: Denmark AC outlets
Hi all I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. The situation is not so simple. It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, type of equipment etc. 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type themselves. 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at the moment. 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use grounded plugs. 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Raadgivning Denmark Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. Wellman Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout Denmark. I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I guess. The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to thinking the world revolves around those two categories. Best Regards, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: Ronald R. Wellman rwell...@wellman.com To: aiken ai...@gulftel.com; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets Hello Lou, You mention that In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark. Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish plugs for Denmark without any problems for TM equipment. In fact, I had requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark but only the Danish power cords. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: Rich, That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the world. That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group does not have to down load it. The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket outlets but only where they are considered necessary. The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia NZ. Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection between mains circuits and telephone circuits. I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark. Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough. Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark. I always liked Feller with HQ near Vienna, Austria. There is a lot of information in their catalog; you should send for one. There IS a special Danish Grounding type plug for use only in Denmark and only for a product where grounding is required. It fits only a special Danish grounding type socket outlet.I don't have a standard sheet for it, but you can see it on the Feller web page http://www.feller-at.com/ if you are
RE: Denmark AC outlets
Kim, thanks for your input. Do I understand correctly that a 3-pin, earthing-type Danish outlet is fault-current protected such that if a Shuko plug is used and there is a mains to chassis fault, persons will be protected? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:k...@bolls.dk] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:53 AM To: EMC PSTC Subject: SV: Denmark AC outlets Hi all I think I ought to comment this since I live in Denmark. The situation is not so simple. It depends on the installation location, industrial, commercial, wet-room, type of equipment etc. 1. The most widely used system is a non-grounded socket protected by a fault-current circuit (app. 30 mA). Here a Schuko type plug is preferred. This covers 90% of all commercial installations and 50% of all office installations. Therefore for in commercial use people have problems with the grounded Danish plug and will have to change it to an un-grounded type themselves. 2. New requirements for installations calls for installation of the Danish grounded socket every-where. Here a Schuko is not good. But this requirement is only for new building installation NOT a requirements for equipment at the moment. 3. For professional use (laboratories etc.) most installations can use grounded plugs. 4. Some product standards have national deviations which requires a warning on Schuko connector that the installation shall have a fault current circuit or a correct grounding plug shall be fitted. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Raadgivning Denmark Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne af aiken Sendt: 22. oktober 2003 21:13 Til: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; Ronald R. Wellman Emne: Re: Denmark AC outlets Ron, Thanks. Your note below is believable. I only added that comment because I know the special Danish grounding plug requires the special Danish grounded socket outlet. The Danish people I have dealt with preferred the Schuko plug because fits the ordinary socket outlets (grounded and ungrounded) installed throughout Denmark. I have also been told by Danish people that if a grounded socket outlet is required for a particular product, an ordinary grounding type socket outlet can be installed quicker than the special Danish socket - availability I guess. The notion that a special grounding type plug and socket outlet was necessary, that is incompatible with ordinary plugs and socket outlets, never spread beyond the boarders of Denmark. My background is mostly ITE and Domestic appliances. So I sometimes get to thinking the world revolves around those two categories. Best Regards, Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: Ronald R. Wellman rwell...@wellman.com To: aiken ai...@gulftel.com; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Denmark AC outlets Hello Lou, You mention that In practice, everyone I know sends Schuko plugs to Denmark. Well, that is not necessarily true for manufacturers of test and measurement, and laboratory equipment. I have always specified the Danish plugs for Denmark without any problems for TM equipment. In fact, I had requests from people in Denmark to not ship Schuko power cords to Denmark but only the Danish power cords. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 12:28 PM 10/22/2003 -0500, aiken wrote: Rich, That is true, and not only in Denmark but throughout much of the world. That Schuko plug (CEE 7, Standard Sheet VII) is specifically designed to fit either a grounded or ungrounded socket outlet. Note the side grounding contacts. I will shoot you a pdf of the page in a separate note so the group does not have to down load it. The control is the installation requirement to provide grounded socket outlets but only where they are considered necessary. The exceptions being North America, the UK, Australia NZ. Over the years I have observed that where the national language is English, grounding type socket outlets are provided everywhere. In most other countries grounded socket outlets are required in areas where grounding is considered necessary. I am sure there exceptions. This is an over simplification when the product also connects to the telephone network and grounding is necessary to provide extra protection between mains circuits and telephone circuits. I have never seen two surveys of REQUIRED plug approvals that agreed with one another. I eliminated that concern years ago by specifying plugs with the approval mark, if the country had such a mark available. Therefore, I am uncertain if the DEMKO mark is required in Denmark. Chances are that any mark from any EU country is enough. Schuko plugs made by major manufacturers will have the DEMKO approval mark. I always liked
Add a new memeber
Could you add Dr Nigel Carter to the email listing email nigel.car...@ntlworld.com Regards Andy Andrew Price Principal Development Engineer (EMC Specialist) BAE SYSTEMS Avionics A125 Christopher Martin Road Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL tel: +44 (0) 1268 883308 email: andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
