RE: Power adaptor to Australia
Gary, The regulations in Australia concerning EMC are indeed different to Europe in that the Australian EMC regulatory framework hinges around supply rather than importation. Yes it is he local manufacturer or importer who must ensure the device complies but simply because they are considered to be the first supplier of the device in Australia. On the point about the power adapter not needing the C-tick mark if the power adapter has been tested with the parent unit. This is actually the case according to the fine point of the regulations PROVIDING the power adapter is not independently listed in your price list or sales material (i.e. independently available for purchase). Therefore, if the supplier wish to be able to make the power adapter freely available to their customers to replace failed power adapters after any warranty expires (i.e. the customer has to buy the power adapter) how does the supplier ensure the customer is buying the device to be used with the original parent device. It all gets rather messy. In addition, the ACA are fairly uncomfortable about a device, such as a power adapter, not being compliant in its own right (marked with the C-Tick and ACA Supplier Code etc) if the device has a COMMONLY USED SECONDARY CONNECTOR allowing it to easily be transferred by the user and used with another device. My advice to my clients therefore, from a practical point of view and to avoid any potential problems, is that they should either source already compliant power adapters or have the power adapter independently tested to avoid any hassles at time of ACA audit. This then allows the device to be independently listed for sale also. One final point. The ACA are presently in the throws of ramping up their after market surveillance (compliance auditing) where they will be conducting more and more full technical audits rather than simply reviewing a Compliance Folder on the spot to ensure the necessary compliance material is included and the test reports are to the right standard and state the device complies etc. This means they will be taking all compliance documentation (Compliance Folder etc) plus 3 samples of the device away to perform a thorough evaluation of the compliance material and the device including: a) going through each and every test report, clause by clause, to ensure the reports cover all the applicable clauses (i.e. the right clauses have been tested) and that the test data results do in fact confirm compliance; b) examining the samples to ensure they do indeed match the compliance material (i.e. samples offered for supply are exactly the same type and hardware/firmware/software version of that stated in the Compliance Folder). Best regards, Kevin Richardson Stanimore Pty Limited Compliance Solutions for Technology Products (Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services) Ph: 02-4329-4070 (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070) Fax: 02-4328-5639 (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639) Mobile: 04-1224-1620 (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620) Email:kevin.richard...@ieee.org This material (this message and the information contained in all attachments to this message) is confidential and/or privileged information and is intended only for the addressee/s named above. Any unauthorised dissemination, copying, use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee/s named above is prohibited. If you receive this material in error, please notify Stanimore Pty Limited and destroy all copies (electronic and hardcopy) of this message and all attachments immediately. From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gary McInturff Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 2:16 AM To: 'Barry Esmore'; EMC-PSTC Forum Subject: RE: Power adaptor to Australia Barry, Quick question. If the supply doesn't have the C-tick mark but is used in a product that does how does one get then get a replacement or spare power supply into the country? Gary From: Barry Esmore [mailto:bar...@melbpc.org.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC Forum Subject: Re: Power adaptor to Australia It will require Australian safety approval from a state approvals authority and will need to display an allocated approval number. Also, a power supply sold on its own will need to be C-Ticked. However, if it's supplied with a product the product will require the C-Tick and it should not be necessary to also C-Tick the power supply. Regards Barry Esmore AUS-TICK Electrical Appliance Approval Consultants 281 Lawrence Rd Mount Waverley Vic 3149 Australia Ph: 613 9886 1345 Fax: 613 9884 7272 - Original Message - From: Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) mailto:peckhoon.c...@my.hpi-group.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Power adaptor to Australia Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the
Haefely surge tester?
I have a Haefely PC6-288.1 surge tester who's serial interface decided to quit working after sending it to Hipotronics for calibration. Hipotronics has been of no help after the person who calibrated it quit the company, so I'm looking for alternatives: - Is there anyone in the US other than Hiptronics that can repair this old beast? - Does anyone out there have a service manual/schematic for the unit (Haefely won't sell them to me). Thanks, Brent G. DeWitt Datex-Ohmeda - Now a part of GE Medical Systems Email: brent.dew...@med.ge.com Phone: 303-673-1488 Fax: 303-665-9231 Visit us on the internet at www.gemedical.com
Conducted immunity of a USB port
Dear group, I have the following questions on testing a USB port for conducted immunity 1) USB extension cables are available in the consumer market. The USB 1.0 spec limits the cable length to 5.0m. Therefor I believe that the conducted immunity test is required even if the cable length of the DUT is less than 3m, unles a restriction is made in the user manual.. Is that correct? 2) I tested conducted immunity using a CDN-S9 with home-made adaptors from DB9 to USB using 4 pins of the DB-9 and the screen connection. I assume that this should give a representative result? For information: this does not work for hi-speed USB because of the LPF in the CDN. 3) Are CDN's for USB available? Or is it better to use an EM clamp? kind regards, Ton Bouw
Re: Power adaptor to Australia
Hi Gary, This would be seen as a component similar to other component parts. The appliance should be EMC tested with the power supply fitted and then the main appliance C-Tick marked. Regards Barry Esmore - Original Message - From: Gary mailto:gmcintu...@spraycool.com McInturff To: 'Barry Esmore' mailto:bar...@melbpc.org.au ; EMC-PSTC Forum mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:15 AM Subject: RE: Power adaptor to Australia Barry, Quick question. If the supply doesn't have the C-tick mark but is used in a product that does how does one get then get a replacement or spare power supply into the country? Gary From: Barry Esmore [mailto:bar...@melbpc.org.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC Forum Subject: Re: Power adaptor to Australia It will require Australian safety approval from a state approvals authority and will need to display an allocated approval number. Also, a power supply sold on its own will need to be C-Ticked. However, if it's supplied with a product the product will require the C-Tick and it should not be necessary to also C-Tick the power supply. Regards Barry Esmore AUS-TICK Electrical Appliance Approval Consultants 281 Lawrence Rd Mount Waverley Vic 3149 Australia Ph: 613 9886 1345 Fax: 613 9884 7272 - Original Message - From: Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) mailto:peckhoon.c...@my.hpi-group.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Power adaptor to Australia Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? Thanks, PH Chon
Re: Power adaptor to Australia
Hi Gary, You don't need the C-Tick mark to bring it into the country. Different regs to Europe I guess!! Regards Barry Esmore - Original Message - From: Gary mailto:gmcintu...@spraycool.com McInturff To: 'Barry Esmore' mailto:bar...@melbpc.org.au ; EMC-PSTC Forum mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:15 AM Subject: RE: Power adaptor to Australia Barry, Quick question. If the supply doesn't have the C-tick mark but is used in a product that does how does one get then get a replacement or spare power supply into the country? Gary From: Barry Esmore [mailto:bar...@melbpc.org.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC Forum Subject: Re: Power adaptor to Australia It will require Australian safety approval from a state approvals authority and will need to display an allocated approval number. Also, a power supply sold on its own will need to be C-Ticked. However, if it's supplied with a product the product will require the C-Tick and it should not be necessary to also C-Tick the power supply. Regards Barry Esmore AUS-TICK Electrical Appliance Approval Consultants 281 Lawrence Rd Mount Waverley Vic 3149 Australia Ph: 613 9886 1345 Fax: 613 9884 7272 - Original Message - From: Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) mailto:peckhoon.c...@my.hpi-group.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Power adaptor to Australia Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? Thanks, PH Chon
Re: Power adaptor to Australia
I read in !emc-pstc that Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) peckhoon.c...@my.hpi- group.com wrote (in 93abcc3df3c5924a94111d13b3bbc29a2a0...@hpi-mailsvr.hpi- my) about 'Power adaptor to Australia' on Tue, 18 Nov 2003: Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? You may well find this URL helpful. Be careful if it has a word-wrap. http://www.aca.gov.au/consumer_info/fact_sheets/industry_fact_sheets/fsi11.htm -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Refurbished Products to EU
Greetings, We are considering refurbishing laboratory equipment products that were located in the EU. These products will be removed from the EU and refurbished. Once the products are refurbished, we will be selling them to new customers in the EU. The refurbishments will not include any new technology. I have a couple of questions for the group in regards to this process. 1.Will the applicable regulatory requirements of today be required, or the requirements from the original date of sale? 2.Are there any additional requirements for refurbished products? 2.Are there any specific labeling requirements to state that the product has been refurbished? 3.Are there any type of reporting requirements to let Member States know that we are performing this refurbishment and reselling the products in the EU? Would this requirement be different for products self-certified versus products that requiredNotified Body Approvals i.e. Medical, IVD etc. As always, your responses are appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems marti...@appliedbiosystems.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria
One other quick note when doing your EMC testing: All Service Providers (except Verizon) accept GR-1089-CORE issue 3. Verizon ONLY accepts GR-1089-CORE Issue 2. Some Service Providers will accept either Issue. SBC, Qwest, and Bellsouth require Issue 3. Verizon has additional requirements and deviations from both Issue 2 and Issue 3 (see www.verizonnebs.com NEBS Checklist) Verizon only permits testing at a Verizon approved lab as of January 1, 2003. SBC will only accept reports from NACLA labs (such as A2LA or NVLAP accredited labs) after January 1, 2004 (see SBC's TP 76200 at https://ebiznet.sbc.com/sbcnebs/) Based on information provided by Verizon at their NEBS seminar last month, they may adopt Issue 3 or some variant of it in the future. Or they may not. So beware that you and your test lab know who the customer is and what criteria you need to meet and which version of GR-1089 applies. And we thought GR-1089 was confusing with regard to doors open or closed requirements! Jim Jim Wiese NEBS Project Manager/Senior Compliance Engineer ADTRAN, INC. 901 Explorer Blvd. P.O. Box 14 Huntsville, AL 35814-4000 256-963-8431 256-963-8250 fax jim.wi...@adtran.com From: marko.radoji...@nokia.com [mailto:marko.radoji...@nokia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:59 AM To: rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Richard, The root of the problem may be that you are interpreting the requirements as OR rather than AND. GR-1089 requires you to meet R3-1 *AND* R3-2. Verizon also specifically calls out all these requirements in section 3.2.10.1 of their NEBS checklist. http://www.verizonnebs.com/index.html#chklist As well to answer your last question, GR-1089 is really only required by US ILEC customers for deployment in their COs/CEVs/Remotes/etc. These locations fall under the FCC Public Utilities exemption but, due to other reasons, this exemption is rarely used for new equipment. The utilities are still responsible for fixing any EMI-related issues. As an editorial comment, these GR-1089 requirements seem to me to be strongly favouring all new system designs to not use covers, doors, etc. as a form of EMI containment. That is certainly the easiest way to comply with these requirements. Cheers, Marko From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of ext Georgerian, Richard Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:31 AM To: IEEE emc-pstc Subject: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Greetings All, Hopefully someone has some insight to the following- In GR-1089 Issue 3, Section 3.2.1, requirement R3-1 [8] uses the FCC Class A and B limits for equipment with no doors or covers for the range of 30MHz to 1GHz. It also has limits for below 30MHz and above 1GHz. This section I understand. What I don't understand clearly is requirement R3-3 [10]. It references emissions from Class A and B unit's not exceeding Table 3-2. Table 3-2 limits are higher than the FCC Class A and B limits. The doors or covers are to be opened during emission testing. However, if the doors and covers that are not intended to be opened during EUT operation, maintenance, and/or repair need not be opened, I can still test to those higher limits. If so, I can no longer can be considered FCC A or B equipment. Is requirement R3-3 [10] mainly for central office areas and not residential? Thanks. Richard = Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer Carrier Access Corporation 5395 Pearl Parkway Boulder, CO 80301 USA Tele: 303-218-5748 Fax: 303-218-5503 mailto:rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com
Re: Standards process
I read in !emc-pstc that Ablewisp - Compliance Engineers s...@ablewisp.com wrote (in ncbbihmocpcglbmhbpkpgefcdeaa...@ablewisp.co m) about 'Standards process' on Tue, 18 Nov 2003: Can anyone recommend a link or reference where I can learn more about the process of producing IEC and EN standards? CENELEC has produced a CD, 'Primer on Standards', which will probably tell you more than you ever needed to know. Go to http://www.cenelec.org take a large patience pill and search for the CD title. You MAY be able to buy it on line. Briefly, much of the work is updating existing standards, but a new proposal for a standard has to be approved by the national (standards) committees of enough countries. They, and others, then send 'experts' from industry (mostly), academia, test houses and sometimes regulatory organizations, to Working Groups (some have different titles). These groups prepare a draft of the new standard, which is sent to the national committees for comment. The comments are them considered and compromises, corrections and negotiations take place. This process may be repeated. Then, a final draft is circulated to the national committees for voting. If it passes, it is subject to a second voting process, and if that is passed, it is published. After a time period (3 to 12 years) specified when the standard is published, it may be withdrawn, amended or fully revised. Note that 'Brussels', the European Commission, 'Geneva' and IEC staff don't figure directly in the above processes. Most of the work is done by experts from industry, who do generally know what they are talking about, but often can't write it clearly enough, being engineers and not literary scholars. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: IEC and EN standard relationships
I read in !emc-pstc that richhug...@aol.com wrote (in 1e0.13a69d51.2ceb 5...@aol.com) about 'IEC and EN standard relationships' on Tue, 18 Nov 2003: I did not have the intention of singling you out, only of finishing our thread. I would not have made that comment if I had realised that the message was sent to the mailgroup. For some reason, it appeared in my e-mail as a simple message from you. It has disappointed me that, seemingly, the great majority of information flow on this thread has been due to individuals in Europe explaining how CENELEC standards relate to IEC standards [snip] So what I'd really like is to se the continuation of this tread, but with greater information input from outside of Europe. I agree entirely with that. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Looking for experiences / opinions with Immunity Test Software
Our front office stumbled across some money hidden in a drawer. I received the OK to spend some on new Immunity test software. It won't last long so I'm a bit pushed for time on this one. Does anyone out there in compliance land have any opinions / experience on who is selling the most versatile, easy to interface to external processes - user friendly - accurate - Radiated Conducted Immunity Software. I am looking for actual experience (both Good not so good). The SW needs to support a fully monitored field - active leveling approach in addition to just playback mode. The SW needs to have user friendly linkages to allow synchronization to external EUT data logging functions (PC based). External EUT data logger needs Frequency data (sent during or at the end of dwell time) to correlate Stress-Response to facilitate automated testing. Some of the EUT's can take up to 20 min cycle time per step so automatic testing is necessary. I would appreciate any input from those with actual drive time on the newer generation of Immunity test Software. Please reply off line if you would prefer to keep your opinions private. I will respect all comments as confidential and none will go to any vendors. Please be candid. Thank you in advance. Michael Taylor PE, NCE Ch. EMC Compliance Eng. Hach Company Colorado mtay...@hach.com 970-663-1377 ext-2646
RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria
Your right GR-1089 is not a legal requirement. But if you want to sell your product to companies like Verizon you MUST meet NEBS requirements which includes GR-1089. It is not legally required, but they will tell you they are not required to buy products, or allow co-location of products that are not compliant with their standards. From: andy.wh...@nokia.com [mailto:andy.wh...@nokia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:17 PM To: rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Hi Richard, I used to deal with GR1089 testing with my previous employer. The way I used to specify the test plans were to complete the emissions tests with 'doors open' and 'doors closed'. This would allow the GR1089 criteria to be met and also the FCC criteria to be met. I know that it means repeating certain test frequency ranges but the FCC tests must be met for almost all carriers. GR1089 is not a legal requirement, it is good to meet it (especially with Verizon or to co-locate with Verizon) but the FCC is a regulatory requirement and is good to have to sell in other market areas. An example of what I mean is shown below. [1] E-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) GR-1089-CORE R3-1[8] 10k to 30M Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) FCC part 15, EN55022, GR1089-CORE R3-1[8] 30M to 1G Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) FCC part 15, GR-1089-CORE R3-1[8] 1G to 10G Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Open) GR-1089-CORE R3-3[10] 10k to 30M Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Open) GR-1089-CORE R3-3[10] 30M to 10G Class A H-Field - Enc. (Doors Open) GR-1089-CORE R3-4[11] 60hz to 30M Class A [1] H-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) GR-1089-CORE R3-1[8] 60Hz to 30M Class A [1] perform doors closed only if doors open criteria is not met. Andy ___ Andy White EMC Engineer Nokia San Diego ___ From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of ext Georgerian, Richard Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:31 AM To: IEEE emc-pstc Subject: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Greetings All, Hopefully someone has some insight to the following- In GR-1089 Issue 3, Section 3.2.1, requirement R3-1 [8] uses the FCC Class A and B limits for equipment with no doors or covers for the range of 30MHz to 1GHz. It also has limits for below 30MHz and above 1GHz. This section I understand. What I don't understand clearly is requirement R3-3 [10]. It references emissions from Class A and B unit's not exceeding Table 3-2. Table 3-2 limits are higher than the FCC Class A and B limits. The doors or covers are to be opened during emission testing. However, if the doors and covers that are not intended to be opened during EUT operation, maintenance, and/or repair need not be opened, I can still test to those higher limits. If so, I can no longer can be considered FCC A or B equipment. Is requirement R3-3 [10] mainly for central office areas and not residential? Thanks. Richard = Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer Carrier Access Corporation 5395 Pearl Parkway Boulder, CO 80301 USA Tele: 303-218-5748 Fax: 303-218-5503 mailto:rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com
RE: Seminars
-Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com [ mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Seminars A senior level EMC test technician is seeking training to enable his eligibility for promotion to an entry level EMC Test Engineering position. One of the requirements of the new position is to write test plans based upon the type of EUT and its configurations. The types of EUTs include, ITE, motor operated equipment, CCTV and radio equipment; and testing is to FCC and CENELEC standards. Is anyone aware of any USA based seminars in the development of test plans? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International Rich: A formal Test Plan is a normal requirement for a military contract (and a full-blown one can easily surpass 150 pages). After submission to the customer (typically a command procurement office), the document is reviewed EMC specialists, and the document is either accepted or returned for modifications. Once the Plan is approved, it becomes the guiding authority for subsequent acceptance testing. But the FCC CENELEC don't do that, so who needs the test plans? If the Plans are for internal Tyco use, then you at Tyco are in the best position to train someone to write them. Aside from a need to understand the operation of a new test article, a senior EMC test technician ought to already be able to write a test plan with ease. All that remains is to decide on the level of the document (Will you say a conducted emission measurement will be performed... or will you say Locate the xxx-xx BNC coax cable and connect one end to Jack ZZ on the 123-999 input panel, then.?) Beyond that, it's just elements of style; avoid the 3rd person passive, identify acronyms, keep the grammar to 10th grade or so. Pardon me, but the hierarchy sounds terribly rigid. BTW, if you want, I'll give you a sample TP. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty
RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria
The FCC does have a residential public utilities exemption that allows the operation of Class A equipment (FCC class A) in the residential environment (normally a FCC class B case), provided the equipment is in a large room which is owned by the utility. This allows for equipment going into telco equipment rooms etc. As far as I can tell, this does not apply to those boxes that show up on the side of single family dwellings such as the fiber to the home (ftth) terminus equipment. For reasons you might quess I asked the question of the FCC - twice same answer both times. Gary From: marko.radoji...@nokia.com Reply-To: marko.radoji...@nokia.com To: rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:58:45 -0800 Richard, The root of the problem may be that you are interpreting the requirements as OR rather than AND. GR-1089 requires you to meet R3-1 *AND* R3-2. Verizon also specifically calls out all these requirements in section 3.2.10.1 of their NEBS checklist. http://www.verizonnebs.com/index.html#chklist As well to answer your last question, GR-1089 is really only required by US ILEC customers for deployment in their COs/CEVs/Remotes/etc. These locations fall under the FCC Public Utilities exemption but, due to other reasons, this exemption is rarely used for new equipment. The utilities are still responsible for fixing any EMI-related issues. As an editorial comment, these GR-1089 requirements seem to me to be strongly favouring all new system designs to not use covers, doors, etc. as a form of EMI containment. That is certainly the easiest way to comply with these requirements. Cheers, Marko -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of ext Georgerian, Richard Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:31 AM To: IEEE emc-pstc Subject: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Greetings All, Hopefully someone has some insight to the following- In GR-1089 Issue 3, Section 3.2.1, requirement R3-1 [8] uses the FCC Class A and B limits for equipment with no doors or covers for the range of 30MHz to 1GHz. It also has limits for below 30MHz and above 1GHz. This section I understand. What I don't understand clearly is requirement R3-3 [10]. It references emissions from Class A and B unit's not exceeding Table 3-2. Table 3-2 limits are higher than the FCC Class A and B limits. The doors or covers are to be opened during emission testing. However, if the doors and covers that are not intended to be opened during EUT operation, maintenance, and/or repair need not be opened, I can still test to those higher limits. If so, I can no longer can be considered FCC A or B equipment. Is requirement R3-3 [10] mainly for central office areas and not residential? Thanks. Richard = Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer Carrier Access Corporation 5395 Pearl Parkway Boulder, CO 80301 USA Tele: 303-218-5748 Fax: 303-218-5503 mailto:rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com _ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria
Hi Richard, I used to deal with GR1089 testing with my previous employer. The way I used to specify the test plans were to complete the emissions tests with 'doors open' and 'doors closed'. This would allow the GR1089 criteria to be met and also the FCC criteria to be met. I know that it means repeating certain test frequency ranges but the FCC tests must be met for almost all carriers. GR1089 is not a legal requirement, it is good to meet it (especially with Verizon or to co-locate with Verizon) but the FCC is a regulatory requirement and is good to have to sell in other market areas. An example of what I mean is shown below. [1] E-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) GR-1089-CORE R3-1[8] 10k to 30M Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) FCC part 15, EN55022, GR1089-CORE R3-1[8] 30M to 1G Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) FCC part 15, GR-1089-CORE R3-1[8] 1G to 10G Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Open) GR-1089-CORE R3-3[10] 10k to 30M Class A E-Field - Enc. (Doors Open) GR-1089-CORE R3-3[10] 30M to 10G Class A H-Field - Enc. (Doors Open) GR-1089-CORE R3-4[11] 60hz to 30M Class A [1] H-Field - Enc. (Doors Closed) GR-1089-CORE R3-1[8] 60Hz to 30M Class A [1] perform doors closed only if doors open criteria is not met. Andy ___ Andy White EMC Engineer Nokia San Diego ___ From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of ext Georgerian, Richard Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:31 AM To: IEEE emc-pstc Subject: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Greetings All, Hopefully someone has some insight to the following- In GR-1089 Issue 3, Section 3.2.1, requirement R3-1 [8] uses the FCC Class A and B limits for equipment with no doors or covers for the range of 30MHz to 1GHz. It also has limits for below 30MHz and above 1GHz. This section I understand. What I don't understand clearly is requirement R3-3 [10]. It references emissions from Class A and B unit's not exceeding Table 3-2. Table 3-2 limits are higher than the FCC Class A and B limits. The doors or covers are to be opened during emission testing. However, if the doors and covers that are not intended to be opened during EUT operation, maintenance, and/or repair need not be opened, I can still test to those higher limits. If so, I can no longer can be considered FCC A or B equipment. Is requirement R3-3 [10] mainly for central office areas and not residential? Thanks. Richard = Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer Carrier Access Corporation 5395 Pearl Parkway Boulder, CO 80301 USA Tele: 303-218-5748 Fax: 303-218-5503 mailto:rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com
RE: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria
Richard, The root of the problem may be that you are interpreting the requirements as OR rather than AND. GR-1089 requires you to meet R3-1 *AND* R3-2. Verizon also specifically calls out all these requirements in section 3.2.10.1 of their NEBS checklist. http://www.verizonnebs.com/index.html#chklist As well to answer your last question, GR-1089 is really only required by US ILEC customers for deployment in their COs/CEVs/Remotes/etc. These locations fall under the FCC Public Utilities exemption but, due to other reasons, this exemption is rarely used for new equipment. The utilities are still responsible for fixing any EMI-related issues. As an editorial comment, these GR-1089 requirements seem to me to be strongly favouring all new system designs to not use covers, doors, etc. as a form of EMI containment. That is certainly the easiest way to comply with these requirements. Cheers, Marko From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of ext Georgerian, Richard Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:31 AM To: IEEE emc-pstc Subject: GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria Greetings All, Hopefully someone has some insight to the following- In GR-1089 Issue 3, Section 3.2.1, requirement R3-1 [8] uses the FCC Class A and B limits for equipment with no doors or covers for the range of 30MHz to 1GHz. It also has limits for below 30MHz and above 1GHz. This section I understand. What I don't understand clearly is requirement R3-3 [10]. It references emissions from Class A and B unit's not exceeding Table 3-2. Table 3-2 limits are higher than the FCC Class A and B limits. The doors or covers are to be opened during emission testing. However, if the doors and covers that are not intended to be opened during EUT operation, maintenance, and/or repair need not be opened, I can still test to those higher limits. If so, I can no longer can be considered FCC A or B equipment. Is requirement R3-3 [10] mainly for central office areas and not residential? Thanks. Richard = Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer Carrier Access Corporation 5395 Pearl Parkway Boulder, CO 80301 USA Tele: 303-218-5748 Fax: 303-218-5503 mailto:rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com
GR-1089 Issue 3: 3.2.1 Radiated Emission Criteria
Greetings All, Hopefully someone has some insight to the following- In GR-1089 Issue 3, Section 3.2.1, requirement R3-1 [8] uses the FCC Class A and B limits for equipment with no doors or covers for the range of 30MHz to 1GHz. It also has limits for below 30MHz and above 1GHz. This section I understand. What I don't understand clearly is requirement R3-3 [10]. It references emissions from Class A and B unit's not exceeding Table 3-2. Table 3-2 limits are higher than the FCC Class A and B limits. The doors or covers are to be opened during emission testing. However, if the doors and covers that are not intended to be opened during EUT operation, maintenance, and/or repair need not be opened, I can still test to those higher limits. If so, I can no longer can be considered FCC A or B equipment. Is requirement R3-3 [10] mainly for central office areas and not residential? Thanks. Richard = Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer Carrier Access Corporation 5395 Pearl Parkway Boulder, CO 80301 USA Tele: 303-218-5748 Fax: 303-218-5503 mailto:rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com
RE: Legal Precedents
I believe in the US that database is called Westlaw. (www.westlaw.com) Mat Mat Aschenberg Agency Engineer EchoStar Technologies Corporation Englewood, Colorado (303) 706-5064 From: richhug...@aol.com [mailto:richhug...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:10 AM To: ed.pr...@cubic.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Legal Precedents Ed, In England and Wales there is a subscription-based on-line, searchable, database that gives the legal profession access to the results of cases heard in the higher courts. It therefore seems likely that such a system exists for the USA too (or perhaps at the individual State level?). If you or others on this list contact your internal legal folks then perhaps you could ask them (a) if such a database exists and (b) whether you could spend some time accessing it? Regards, Richard Hughes p.s. For those that were wondering, the legal system in Scotland is different to that in England and Wales - and Northern Ireland is different again.
RE: Power adaptor to Australia
Barry, Quick question. If the supply doesn't have the C-tick mark but is used in a product that does how does one get then get a replacement or spare power supply into the country? Gary From: Barry Esmore [mailto:bar...@melbpc.org.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC Forum Subject: Re: Power adaptor to Australia It will require Australian safety approval from a state approvals authority and will need to display an allocated approval number. Also, a power supply sold on its own will need to be C-Ticked. However, if it's supplied with a product the product will require the C-Tick and it should not be necessary to also C-Tick the power supply. Regards Barry Esmore AUS-TICK Electrical Appliance Approval Consultants 281 Lawrence Rd Mount Waverley Vic 3149 Australia Ph: 613 9886 1345 Fax: 613 9884 7272 - Original Message - From: Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) mailto:peckhoon.c...@my.hpi-group.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: Power adaptor to Australia Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? Thanks, PH Chon
Re: Leakage at Enclosure Seams
Thank you for all the replies on this subject - these were very helpful and constructive. Jeff Chambers Dr Jeff Chambers Westbay Technology Ltd Main St Baycliff Ulverston Cumbria LA12 9RN England Tel: 01229 869 108 Fax: 01229 869 108 http://www.westbay.ndirect.co.uk This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Power adaptor to Australia
I understand that a safety certification is required only if the adapter has a secondary connector that is of the barrel type commonly used in consumer equipment. The certification can be granted by one of the provincial electrical authorities. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 5:57 AM To: 'Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY)'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Power adaptor to Australia Hi, External power adaptors supplied in Australia must be labelled with the regulatory C-tick mark and the supplier code. There must also be an Approval number on the label, issued by an Australian supply authority which indicates that it meets an isolating transformer standard. Regards, Kris From: Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) [mailto:peckhoon.c...@my.hpi-group.com] Sent: dinsdag 18 november 2003 10:58 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Power adaptor to Australia Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? Thanks, PH Chon This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Power adaptor to Australia
Hi, External power adaptors supplied in Australia must be labelled with the regulatory C-tick mark and the supplier code. There must also be an Approval number on the label, issued by an Australian supply authority which indicates that it meets an isolating transformer standard. Regards, Kris From: Peck Hoon CHON (HPI-MY) [mailto:peckhoon.c...@my.hpi-group.com] Sent: dinsdag 18 november 2003 10:58 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Power adaptor to Australia Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? Thanks, PH Chon This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Legal Precedents
Ed, In England and Wales there is a subscription-based on-line, searchable, database that gives the legal profession access to the results of cases heard in the higher courts. It therefore seems likely that such a system exists for the USA too (or perhaps at the individual State level?). If you or others on this list contact your internal legal folks then perhaps you could ask them (a) if such a database exists and (b) whether you could spend some time accessing it? Regards, Richard Hughes p.s. For those that were wondering, the legal system in Scotland is different to that in England and Wales - and Northern Ireland is different again.
Re: IEC and EN standard relationships
John, I did not have the intention of singling you out, only of finishing our thread. It has disappointed me that, seemingly, the great majority of information flow on this thread has been due to individuals in Europe explaining how CENELEC standards relate to IEC standards but not how standards from other geography's, such as North + South America and the Pacific Rim, relate to IEC standards. There was mention that one could look at the CB Scheme to find out the differences, which is of course true where there is such a scheme. However, taking my example standard of IEC 60825-1 again, I know that the Australian national standard is based on this document but there is no CB Scheme to tell me that (or to tell me that the USA goes its own way with the CDRH). Of course, it may be that there are sources of information which exist but which are not in English. Such sources are likely to be of no use to me, but they could be useful to the wide range of people who participate in this forum. So what I'd really like is to se the continuation of this tread, but with greater information input from outside of Europe. Regards, Richard Hughes
Standards process
Dear Group Thank you to all those that responded to my post on “IEC and EN standard relationships”. The replies made me realise that as a user of standards, I know very little about the process of producing standards! Can anyone recommend a link or reference where I can learn more about the process of producing IEC and EN standards? Many thanks Stuart Miller http://msgtag.com/?source=ffooter has notified the sender that this message has been received.
Power adaptor to Australia
Hi all, Could anyone please advice for product that market to Australia, is the external power adaptor need to have both C-tick and SAA mark? Thanks, PH Chon
RE: Product Certify For Airline Usage
Hi All, I would like to thanks for all your input to my enquiry of this topic. These information are really helpful. Thanks Best Regards, James Lim CH Tel: (65) 6824 3516 Fax: (65) 6273 7429 / (65) 6273 8736
