Re: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
I have to agree with Mr. Woodgate that the components between the capacitor and the AC mains make a difference. The available fault current on the AC mains can be very high. It may be 1 kA, 10 kA or even more. A component failure due to a short circuit can be very dramatic. The rectifier alone will likely limit the fault current. If nothing else, the diodes will act as fuses. You could design a rectifier circuit that would allow a high fault current, but you would have to set out to do so and you would spend a lot of money in the process. Besides, proper abnormal condition testing will involve simulating a short circuit on the electrolytic capacitor. The purpose of the test is to verify that the system fails gracefully when the capacitor shorts out. You can't easily do this test on a capacitor directly across the line. The results of shorting out the X-capacitor are heavily dependent on the supply circuit. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC, MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC's, MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. John Woodgate jmw@jmwa.demon.c o.uk To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 03/16/2007 03:23 Re: Electrolytic Capacitors in PMPrimary Circuits In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01b5a...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: §1.5.6 looks at X and Y capacitors, and those connected between the primary circuit and earth. The cathode of the electrolytic capacitor might not connect to earth, unless the bottom end of the rectifier is earthed. If it doesn't connect to earth, no exception is needed. I thin a little clarification is necessary. Between the mains conductors and the filter capacitor are, typically, a fuse, a common-mode choke, a rectifier diode or a bridge rectifier and a resistor to limit inrush current. In no case that I can envisage is the filter capacitor connected to both mains conductors. In fact, that would probably cause it to explode. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
Hi Jody:
UL 60950-1 1st Ed., clause 1.5.6 ('Capacitors in primary circuits') says:
'A capacitor connected between two line conductors of the PRIMARY CIRCUIT,
or between one line
conductor and the neutral conductor, shall comply with IEC 60384-14:1993,
subclass X1 or X2.'
The electrolytic capacitor you mentioned is connected between the
rectifier '+' and '-', not between line conductors.
I always though it interesting that a 0.1uF film cap connected across the
line conductors going into a rectifier had to be safety-rated. But if you
move it to the output side of the rectifier, there's no safety rating
required.
Pat Lawler
SL Power Electronics Corp.
emc-p...@ieee.org wrote on 03/16/2007 11:38:25 AM:
The electrolytic capacitor that sits between the rectifier and
transformer in SMPS is typically not an agency approved component.
Where is this exemption documented in 60950-1, Clause 1.5.6?
Best Regards,
Jody Leber
Senior Regulatory Engineer
jody.le...@motorola.com
http://www.motorola.com/producttesting
Motorola Product Testing Services
1700 Belle Meade Court
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
770.338.3581 P
404.387.1224 C
847.761.3145 F
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Re: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01b5a...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: §1.5.6 looks at X and Y capacitors, and those connected between the primary circuit and earth. The cathode of the electrolytic capacitor might not connect to earth, unless the bottom end of the rectifier is earthed. If it doesn't connect to earth, no exception is needed. I thin a little clarification is necessary. Between the mains conductors and the filter capacitor are, typically, a fuse, a common-mode choke, a rectifier diode or a bridge rectifier and a resistor to limit inrush current. In no case that I can envisage is the filter capacitor connected to both mains conductors. In fact, that would probably cause it to explode. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
From: Jody Leber Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:38 AM The electrolytic capacitor that sits between the rectifier and transformer in SMPS is typically not an agency approved component. Where is this exemption documented in 60950-1, Clause 1.5.6? Jody - Sorry about the earlier e-mail. Itchy trigger finger, I guess. §1.5.6 looks at X and Y capacitors, and those connected between the primary circuit and earth. The cathode of the electrolytic capacitor might not connect to earth, unless the bottom end of the rectifier is earthed. If it doesn't connect to earth, no exception is needed. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
Pardon me, my response to Jody was sent prematurely. Please disregard it. Peter CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Looking for an old piece of instrumentation
Does anyone out there have or know of an available Ailtech 446 power oscillator mainframe? I bought a bunch of 190 series plug-ins, thinking they were 180s that were compatible with my Ailtech 445 mainframe, but I was wrong. Thank you! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
From: Leber Jody Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:38 AM The electrolytic capacitor that sits between the rectifier and transformer in SMPS is typically not an agency approved component. Where is this exemption documented in 60950-1, Clause 1.5.6? Which requirement were you referring to for which you think an exemption is needed? Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:40 AM It may well need to maintain its shape as well as not burning. For example, PTFE won't burn, but melts. UL 2043 looks at heat release and smoke developed. Anything that can retain its shape after this testing provides a bonus feature. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
Pete, To be clear, you are asking about the actual plenum, not an electrical component or wire installed in the plenum. Correct? If so, this would not even be an electrical or telecom question, but a question on the flammability of building construction materials. You would probably find this in catalogues such as UL's red book or Factory Mutual's directory. The same directory that gives you fire door fire ratings. I could be wrong. Regards, Don Gies, N.C.E Senior Product Compliance Engineer Alcatel-Lucent Holmdel, NJ 07733 USA From: Pete Perkins [mailto:peperkin...@cs.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:43 AM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: plenum ratings PSNet, The briefest requests seem to generate the most questions. What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Load me up; your comments are appreciated. :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: plenum ratings
In message daa7e0c23f285e409c808f9d497609ba0176a...@exch2.trpz.com, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Marko Radojicic ma...@trapezenetworks.com writes: It would be great to save money and be compliant. I think I'll do an experiment or two in that direction. It may well need to maintain its shape as well as not burning. For example, PTFE won't burn, but melts. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Electrolytic Capacitors in Primary Circuits
The electrolytic capacitor that sits between the rectifier and transformer in SMPS is typically not an agency approved component. Where is this exemption documented in 60950-1, Clause 1.5.6? Best Regards, Jody Leber Senior Regulatory Engineer jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
Marko, Intertek Testing Services (Formerly Omega Point Laboratories) in Elmendorf (near San Antonio) Texas is A2LA accredited to UL2043. Best regards, David David K. Bell Senior Compliance Engineer Boston Acoustics Inc. 300 Jubilee Drive Peabody, MA 01960-4030 Tel: 978-538-5177 Fax: 978-538-6226 Email: db...@bostona.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Marko Radojicic Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:31 PM To: McInturff Gary; Tarver, Peter; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings I'm not sure the correct question is being asked. There are no plastic ratings that allow you to declare your product to be Plenum Rated. The requirement is to pass the UL2043 standard. (UL Schaumburg (sp?) is the only lab that I've found who can perform this test. If your lab also has this capability, please contact me off-line.) This is analogous to the GR-63 fire spread requirements for those working in Telecom. There is a lot of value using the most fire retardant plastics available but that does *not* ensure you will pass the Verizon requirements. I'll share some painful development scars with the group - This is an incredibly difficult test to pass if you have plastic parts. We have found exactly *one* polymer that allows us to pass. Your results may vary based upon your product! Good luck, Marko From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff Gary Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:52 AM To: Tarver, Peter; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings I don't have the NFPA reference at hand, but would it possible if using 94V5? It is intended for use, at least in 90650, is for a fire enclosure embedded into building structure and non-movable. Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. Gary From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:19 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings From: Pete Perkins Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:43 AM What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Pete - Considering that combustible materials are forbidden to be placed in most ducts and plenums in the CEC and US NEC, I would think the likelihood of a plastic plenum being safety certifiable is negligible. Refer to NFPA 70, Section 300.22. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
Re: plenum ratings
In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01b5a...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: OK, four types of ducts and plenums. If it quacts like a duct... (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: plenum ratings
In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01b5a...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:14 AM McInturff Gary writes: Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. All bar eight, I think, given enough thermal encouragement. Ag, Au, Ru, Rh, Pd, Os, Ir, Pt. Or with very little encouragement if divided finely enough, as Al, or placement in a highly oxygenated environment (early Apollo mission disasters). The eight I nominated are those that don't burn. I think. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
Peter, Very cool idea going in the opposite direction by using lowest flammability plastics! It would be great to save money and be compliant. I think I'll do an experiment or two in that direction. Thanks, Marko From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:44 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings Hi, Marko. From: Marko Radojicic Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:31 AM The requirement is to pass the UL2043 standard. (UL Schaumburg (sp?) is the only lab that I've found who can perform this test. We went to UL's Northbrook office for UL 2043 testing. Schaumburg may be where UL's NBK office hides their burning characteristics test facility. This is analogous to the GR-63 fire spread requirements for those working in Telecom. There is a lot of value using the most fire retardant plastics available but that does *not* ensure you will pass the Verizon requirements. In fact, the smoke developed ratings readily increase with more flame retardant. Similarly, the corrosive nature of the products of combustion are worsened by some flame retardants. I'll share some painful development scars with the group - This is an incredibly difficult test to pass if you have plastic parts. We have found exactly *one* polymer that allows us to pass. We tried several enclosure materials in our UL 2043 foray. Only one passed, it having the lowest flammability classification of the bunch. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
From: Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:25 AM NEC §300.22 is clear. It's divided into three types of ducts and plenums. OK, four types of ducts and plenums. Peter CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
Hi, Marko. From: Marko Radojicic Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:31 AM The requirement is to pass the UL2043 standard. (UL Schaumburg (sp?) is the only lab that I've found who can perform this test. We went to UL's Northbrook office for UL 2043 testing. Schaumburg may be where UL's NBK office hides their burning characteristics test facility. This is analogous to the GR-63 fire spread requirements for those working in Telecom. There is a lot of value using the most fire retardant plastics available but that does *not* ensure you will pass the Verizon requirements. In fact, the smoke developed ratings readily increase with more flame retardant. Similarly, the corrosive nature of the products of combustion are worsened by some flame retardants. I'll share some painful development scars with the group - This is an incredibly difficult test to pass if you have plastic parts. We have found exactly *one* polymer that allows us to pass. We tried several enclosure materials in our UL 2043 foray. Only one passed, it having the lowest flammability classification of the bunch. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:14 AM McInturff Gary writes: Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. All bar eight, I think, given enough thermal encouragement. Ag, Au, Ru, Rh, Pd, Os, Ir, Pt. Or with very little encouragement if divided finely enough, as Al, or placement in a highly oxygenated environment (early Apollo mission disasters). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
Peter, The comment I made earlier dove-tails into 300.22(c) of the NEC. Thanks for looking up the exact references. Cheers, Marko From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:25 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings Gary - NEC §300.22 is clear. It's divided into three types of ducts and plenums. 300.22(a) covers ducts for dust and wood stock. Absolutely zero electrical items are allowed in these ducts. 300.22(b) covers duct and plenums for environmental air. A limited amount of electrical wiring methods are allowed and all must be inside metal. The only electrical devices allowed are those that directly sense or act on the air (temperature and flow rate transducers, automatic plenum gates, etc.) 300.22(c) covers other spaces for environmental air. These spaces are akin to the spaces above false ceilings that are used as return air ducts. Here is where electrical devices evaluated against UL 2043 can be placed, plenum rated power and signal cables evaluated against UL 910 can be run. 300.22(d) refers the reader to Article 645 for items placed under raised floors in data processing centers. The UL 94 test methods address only small scale properties. Large scale properties are addressed by flame spread and smoke developed testing associated with Steiner tunnel and radiant heat test methods. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: McInturff Gary [mailto:gmcintu...@spraycool.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:52 AM To: Tarver, Peter; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings I don't have the NFPA reference at hand, but would it possible if using 94V5? It is intended for use, at least in 90650, is for a fire enclosure embedded into building structure and non-movable. Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. Gary -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:19 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings From: Pete Perkins Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:43 AM What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Pete - Considering that combustible materials are forbidden to be placed in most ducts and plenums in the CEC and US NEC, I would think the likelihood of a plastic plenum being safety certifiable is negligible. Refer to NFPA 70, Section 300.22. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions:
RE: plenum ratings
I'm not sure the correct question is being asked. There are no plastic ratings that allow you to declare your product to be Plenum Rated. The requirement is to pass the UL2043 standard. (UL Schaumburg (sp?) is the only lab that I've found who can perform this test. If your lab also has this capability, please contact me off-line.) This is analogous to the GR-63 fire spread requirements for those working in Telecom. There is a lot of value using the most fire retardant plastics available but that does *not* ensure you will pass the Verizon requirements. I'll share some painful development scars with the group - This is an incredibly difficult test to pass if you have plastic parts. We have found exactly *one* polymer that allows us to pass. Your results may vary based upon your product! Good luck, Marko From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff Gary Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:52 AM To: Tarver, Peter; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings I don't have the NFPA reference at hand, but would it possible if using 94V5? It is intended for use, at least in 90650, is for a fire enclosure embedded into building structure and non-movable. Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. Gary From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:19 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings From: Pete Perkins Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:43 AM What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Pete - Considering that combustible materials are forbidden to be placed in most ducts and plenums in the CEC and US NEC, I would think the likelihood of a plastic plenum being safety certifiable is negligible. Refer to NFPA 70, Section 300.22. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions:
RE: UL924
From: Grace Lin Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:10 AM The spec says that the switch shall open all ungrounded conductors. What does that mean? Best regards, Grace In power systems, there are phase conductors (sometimes referred to as line), grounded supply conductors (usually referred to as neutral and equipment grounding conductors (the green wire). The ungrounded conductors are the phase conductors. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
Gary - NEC §300.22 is clear. It's divided into three types of ducts and plenums. 300.22(a) covers ducts for dust and wood stock. Absolutely zero electrical items are allowed in these ducts. 300.22(b) covers duct and plenums for environmental air. A limited amount of electrical wiring methods are allowed and all must be inside metal. The only electrical devices allowed are those that directly sense or act on the air (temperature and flow rate transducers, automatic plenum gates, etc.) 300.22(c) covers other spaces for environmental air. These spaces are akin to the spaces above false ceilings that are used as return air ducts. Here is where electrical devices evaluated against UL 2043 can be placed, plenum rated power and signal cables evaluated against UL 910 can be run. 300.22(d) refers the reader to Article 645 for items placed under raised floors in data processing centers. The UL 94 test methods address only small scale properties. Large scale properties are addressed by flame spread and smoke developed testing associated with Steiner tunnel and radiant heat test methods. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: McInturff Gary [mailto:gmcintu...@spraycool.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:52 AM To: Tarver, Peter; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings I don't have the NFPA reference at hand, but would it possible if using 94V5? It is intended for use, at least in 90650, is for a fire enclosure embedded into building structure and non-movable. Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. Gary -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:19 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings From: Pete Perkins Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:43 AM What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Pete - Considering that combustible materials are forbidden to be placed in most ducts and plenums in the CEC and US NEC, I would think the likelihood of a plastic plenum being safety certifiable is negligible. Refer to NFPA 70, Section 300.22. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: plenum ratings
In message 51b0e17d0920404a967d381039139ad0015bc...@ds10965.spraycool.com, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, McInturff Gary gmcintu...@spraycool.com writes: Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. All bar eight, I think, given enough thermal encouragement. Ag, Au, Ru, Rh, Pd, Os, Ir, Pt. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: UL924
Hi Peter, Thank you very much for your explanation and John's correction. After forwarding your explanation to my colleage, he asked: The spec says that the switch shall open all ungrounded conductors. What does that mean? Could you please help? Best regards, Grace On 3/16/07, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com wrote: From: Grace Lin Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:55 AM Can someone explain what the meaning of A maintained-break type switch shall open all ungrounded conductors is? Grace - A maintained-break switch does remake the circuit when the actuation means is released, as would be the case for a momentary switch. Snap switches are examples of maintained-break switches (though I have seen maintained-break and momentary built into a single switch). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE mailto:ptar...@ieee.org ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
I don't have the NFPA reference at hand, but would it possible if using 94V5? It is intended for use, at least in 90650, is for a fire enclosure embedded into building structure and non-movable. Combustable seems pretty clear - although some metals burn under the right conditions and thicknesses. Gary From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tarver, Peter Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:19 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: plenum ratings From: Pete Perkins Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:43 AM What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Pete - Considering that combustible materials are forbidden to be placed in most ducts and plenums in the CEC and US NEC, I would think the likelihood of a plastic plenum being safety certifiable is negligible. Refer to NFPA 70, Section 300.22. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: plenum ratings
From: Pete Perkins Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:43 AM What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Pete - Considering that combustible materials are forbidden to be placed in most ducts and plenums in the CEC and US NEC, I would think the likelihood of a plastic plenum being safety certifiable is negligible. Refer to NFPA 70, Section 300.22. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: UL924
From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:25 AM Tarver, Peter writes: A maintained-break switch does remake the circuit when the actu I think the word 'not' is missing. Right you are. Peter CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: plenum ratings
Hello Pete, There are different requirements depending on how the plastics are used. If the plastics are part of the structure of the plenum, insulation used in the plenum or a large surface area, they will need to pass a large scale burn test. The applicable test for the United States is ASTM E-84, also known as the Steiner Fire Tunnel test. The materials must have a flame spread index of no more than 25 and a smoke development index of no more than 50. The test is fairly harsh and uses samples of materials 8 meters long. The equivalent UL standard is UL 723. Plastics used for small items in a plenum, such as a speaker housing, must pass UL 2043. This is a heat and smoke test for discrete products. I am not as familiar with the tests for wires and cables, but there are separate tests used. The same Steiner Fire Tunnel is used for many of these tests, but the procedure for cables is slightly different than for large scale materials. UL 2257 also has some information on plenum cables. There is also information in UL 910. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC, MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC's, MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Pete Perkins peperkinspe@cs.c omTo Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 03/16/2007 10:43 plenum ratings AM PSNet, The briefest requests seem to generate the most questions. What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Load me up; your comments are appreciated. :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
plenum ratings
PSNet, The briefest requests seem to generate the most questions. What do we collectively know about needed ratings for plastic plenums? I believe this is more for electrical than telecomm, but that's not clear yet. Load me up; your comments are appreciated. :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: UL924
In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01b5a...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes: A maintained-break switch does remake the circuit when the actu I think the word 'not' is missing. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: UL924
From: Grace Lin Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:55 AM Can someone explain what the meaning of A maintained-break type switch shall open all ungrounded conductors is? Grace - A maintained-break switch does remake the circuit when the actuation means is released, as would be the case for a momentary switch. Snap switches are examples of maintained-break switches (though I have seen maintained-break and momentary built into a single switch). Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Medical Products: Telcorda SR-332 vs.Mil-HDBK-217
Jeff - Having calculated reliability with both models, my input is: 1) Model differences: MIL-HDBK-217F/G factors for plastic encapsulated parts, pin-count and non-MIL quality were unrealistic in 1991 (quite pessimistic) 2) if system reliability is to be calculated from subsystem rel, subsystem rel should use the same model. Otherwise the system reliability report will be inaccurate or very messy; rel can vary 10X to 20X depending on parameters selected 3) generic failure rates transpose from 217 to 332 using a 1000X factor. (carefully match the environment if using the parts-count Annex, and document the source(s)) IC failure rates 217's IC failure rate extrapolations from 1980's data are no longer valid (predicted MTBF for a 2-GHz PC is only a few minutes). Obtain recent data and document the source. . Honeywell David W. Sterner Quality Assurance Engineering Security Custom Electronics 165 Eileen Way P.O. Box 9035 Syosset, NY 11791 Phone: (516) 921-6704 x6970 Fax # (516) 364-6953 david.ster...@honeywell.com http://www.honeywell.com http://www.honeywell.com/ _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jeff collins Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:46 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Medical Products: Telcorda SR-332 vs.Mil-HDBK-217 Group, For those of you who are involved with Medical products and MTBF Prediction, what reliability standard/method do you use? ( Telcordia SR-332 or MIL-HDBK-217) I normally use MIL-HDBK-217 for medical products and Telcordia SR-332 for Telecom or similar products. I'm working on a medical product where they have requested all of their MTBF Predictions to Telcordia SR-332. Thanks for any insight you may have on this topic. Regards, Jeff Collins - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
