RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
Great description of the sensation - much like hot air with out the blowing sensation or noise. But not quiet like a heat lamp, since the penetration was somewhat deeper. Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote: From: Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? To: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org Cc: IEEE EMC forum emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 8:51 PM From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bill Owsley Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:24 PM To: pat.law...@slpower.com Cc: IEEE EMC forum Subject: Re: How much power to pop corn this fast? The Radar lore has it that a Sailor walked somewhere in front of the new Radar antenna and the chocolate bar melted. And yes, you would pick the usual 2.4 GHz since water molecules have a resonance there that the builds up heat due to friction so said the physics prof. And we have hacked microwave ovens to get a cheap source of high frequency high power, just remove the door and bypass the interlock. You sure don't linger when moving devices in or out of the active field. We stood to the side and reached over, quickly. To add a bit to Bill’s mention of not lingering in the field, I could mention my incident from about 30 years ago, when I was squirting as much RF as I could generate onto a Tomahawk cruise missile to test the shielding effectiveness of compartment gaskets. I was applying about 300 Watts forward power at 10 GHz to a pyramidal horn antenna, and I went into the chamber to rotate the horn polarization. Observing normal best practices, I grasped the rear of the horn in one hand, and curled the fingers of my other hand into the antenna aperture. I was struck by the odd feeling that hot air was blowing out of the horn, and I suppose it took me a second or so to translate this into the reality that the RF was still turned on. Yes, I retreated quickly, but the (very short duration) sensation was almost relaxing and pleasant, somewhat like those lavatory hot air hand dryers. Remember that there is another ISM band at 13.65 MHz, where industry does things like accelerate the curing of plywood bonds, thus, high-power RF technology is readily available there. Consider scaling the popcorn application. At 13.65 MHz, we could use popcorn kernels about 4 feet wide. True, this raises some agricultural process problems, and we might need a salt truck and a butter tanker, but imagine the awesome sight of that pop-off! Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
Damn, so missed the important part! Thanks for the redirection! Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, John Shinn jmsh...@pacbell.net wrote: From: John Shinn jmsh...@pacbell.net Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Cc: 'Ted Eckert' ted.eck...@microsoft.com Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 8:17 PM Ted has it correct. However, it seems that everyone missed the obvious question - What was in the Orange Juice? I ponder this over a Margarity with a lot of Tequila. John -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:03 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? Your doubts are well founded. It was all a viral marketing campaign to sell Bluetooth headsets. Popped corn was dropped onto the table and the unpopped kernels were digitally edited out. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/07/09/carroll.cellphone.popcorn.c nn Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: How much power to pop corn this fast? Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_ news Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bill Owsley Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:24 PM To: pat.law...@slpower.com Cc: IEEE EMC forum Subject: Re: How much power to pop corn this fast? The Radar lore has it that a Sailor walked somewhere in front of the new Radar antenna and the chocolate bar melted. And yes, you would pick the usual 2.4 GHz since water molecules have a resonance there that the builds up heat due to friction so said the physics prof. And we have hacked microwave ovens to get a cheap source of high frequency high power, just remove the door and bypass the interlock. You sure don't linger when moving devices in or out of the active field. We stood to the side and reached over, quickly. To add a bit to Bill’s mention of not lingering in the field, I could mention my incident from about 30 years ago, when I was squirting as much RF as I could generate onto a Tomahawk cruise missile to test the shielding effectiveness of compartment gaskets. I was applying about 300 Watts forward power at 10 GHz to a pyramidal horn antenna, and I went into the chamber to rotate the horn polarization. Observing normal best practices, I grasped the rear of the horn in one hand, and curled the fingers of my other hand into the antenna aperture. I was struck by the odd feeling that hot air was blowing out of the horn, and I suppose it took me a second or so to translate this into the reality that the RF was still turned on. Yes, I retreated quickly, but the (very short duration) sensation was almost relaxing and pleasant, somewhat like those lavatory hot air hand dryers. Remember that there is another ISM band at 13.65 MHz, where industry does things like accelerate the curing of plywood bonds, thus, high-power RF technology is readily available there. Consider scaling the popcorn application. At 13.65 MHz, we could use popcorn kernels about 4 feet wide. True, this raises some agricultural process problems, and we might need a salt truck and a butter tanker, but imagine the awesome sight of that pop-off! Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
Go for It!! Just make sure the OJ is flavored properly. John From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Price, Edward Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Shinn Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:17 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Cc: 'Ted Eckert' Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? Ted has it correct. However, it seems that everyone missed the obvious question - What was in the Orange Juice? I ponder this over a Margarity with a lot of Tequila. John I must abide under the skirts of a very strict corporate net nanny, and I am forced to wait until I get to my home machine to view all of these video links. Popcorn, OJ and cell phones tonight! Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
-Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Shinn Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:17 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Cc: 'Ted Eckert' Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? Ted has it correct. However, it seems that everyone missed the obvious question - What was in the Orange Juice? I ponder this over a Margarity with a lot of Tequila. John I must abide under the skirts of a very strict corporate net nanny, and I am forced to wait until I get to my home machine to view all of these video links. Popcorn, OJ and cell phones tonight! Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of pat.law...@slpower.com Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:47 PM To: Bill Owsley Cc: IEEE EMC forum Subject: Re: How much power to pop corn this fast? More interesting questions are: - Is it feasible to hack a microwave oven apart to get a powerful signal source for this demonstration? It’s been a long time since I did so, but sure, you can use a consumer 2.4 GHz oven as a microwave source. As Bill described, you can just defeat the interlock switch and open the door. A bit more serious of a hack is to eliminate the cooking chamber and fabricate additional waveguide onto the existing waveguide stub from the magnetron, so you can now better direct that microwave power, perhaps into a pyramidal horn antenna. The magnetron is an amazingly tough design, tolerating a huge number of cycles of off to full power and withstanding all sorts of terrible VSWR in its original application. (FYI, various levels of cooking strengths are achieved by duty cycle modulation; off for 10 seconds, then full on for 3 seconds, then off again, etc.) Remember that you won’t get nice CW out of the magnetron, as the power supply is not well filtered with decent energy storage capacitors. Rather, the DC applied to the magnetron is off near the AC supply zero crossings, so you get a waveform a bit like dimmers apply to a light bulb, pulse and AM combined. - If you could pick a signal frequency for the test, would you pick the usual 2.4GHz band used for microwave ovens, or something different? It all has to do with skin depth in the load (food) that you want to heat. If you ever tried to cook a thick block of meat, you would see the skin depth problem immediately. Commercial microwave ovens operate down in the 960 MHz ISM band, so they get three times more skin depth; OTOH, they must be physically larger. True, on popcorn, the skin depth needed isn’t much (popcorn does its thing due to boiling of the water inside the kernel, creating a steam overpressure that ruptures the thin corn skin), so you could use much higher frequencies. OTOH, 2.4 GHz is a “sweet spot”, with water molecules twitching happily here, and microwave hardware is of a reasonable size. I remember hearing anecdotes about engineers (or was it Navy personnel?) cooking hot dogs in front of microwave antennas for fun. Side lobes and reflections make this a very risky thing, even if you have a very long stick. Pat Lawler EMC Engineer SL Power Electronics Corp. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
Ted has it correct. However, it seems that everyone missed the obvious question - What was in the Orange Juice? I ponder this over a Margarity with a lot of Tequila. John -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:03 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? Your doubts are well founded. It was all a viral marketing campaign to sell Bluetooth headsets. Popped corn was dropped onto the table and the unpopped kernels were digitally edited out. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/07/09/carroll.cellphone.popcorn.c nn Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: How much power to pop corn this fast? Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_ news Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Washington/Northern Virginia EMC Society Meeting February 15, 2011
Hi Folks, The Washington/Northern Virginia EMC Society is holding a meeting and presentation on February 15, 2011. “Shielding Methodologies in Equipment Design” Featuring Praveen Pothapragada, Engineering Manager with Equipto Dinner sponsored by Equipto Corporation Agenda: 6:00-6:30 Registration and Networking 6:30: Introductions Dinner 7:00-8:00: Presentation 8:00-8:15: EMC Society Business Meeting 8:15: Adjourn Location: Washington Laboratories, Ltd Directions: http://wll.com/directions.html RSVP: Theresa: there...@wll.com Mike Violette Acting Chair W/NVA EMC Society mi...@wll.com Washington Laboratories Radio Frequency and Electrical Safety 301 216-1500 cell: 240 401 1388 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
Dr. Percy Spencer of Raytheon was working with magnetrons through the 1940s. In 1945, he noticed that a chocolate bar in his pocket melted when he was standing in front of an operating magnetron. Finding this interesting, he then experimented with popcorn and eggs (but not in his pocket.) Dr. Spencer helped develop the technology into the commercial microwave oven. Although he did join the Navy in 1912, he was long past is days as an active sailor. The first patent for the microwave oven, 2,495,429, lists him as the inventor. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: How much power to pop corn this fast? The Radar lore has it that a Sailor walked somewhere in front of the new Radar antenna and the chocolate bar melted. And yes, you would pick the usual 2.4 GHz since water molecules have a resonance there that the builds up heat due to friction so said the physics prof. And we have hacked microwave ovens to get a cheap source of high frequency high power, just remove the door and bypass the interlock. You sure don't linger when moving devices in or out of the active field. We stood to the side and reached over, quickly. Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, pat.law...@slpower.com pat.law...@slpower.com wrote: From: pat.law...@slpower.com pat.law...@slpower.com Subject: Re: How much power to pop corn this fast? To: Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.com Cc: IEEE EMC forum emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 5:47 PM I think this 'phenomena' was discussed within the past couple of years. 1) Are you asking how much cell phone power it takes to cook popcorn? I don't know, but I bet the cell phone wouldn't meet the SAR limit. And they used differnt model cell phones, too. 2) Are you asking how much power a microwave horn concealed under the table would have to emit? I don't know that either, but the popcorn was put on the table for about 30 seconds before it popped. (Ignore the ritual of making the cell phones ring.) More interesting questions are: - Is it feasible to hack a microwave oven apart to get a powerful signal source for this demonstration? - If you could pick a signal frequency for the test, would you pick the usual 2.4GHz band used for microwave ovens, or something different? I remember hearing anecdotes about engineers (or was it Navy personnel?) cooking hot dogs in front of microwave antennas for fun. Pat Lawler EMC Engineer SL Power Electronics Corp. emc-p...@ieee.org wrote on 02/04/2011 01:41:13 PM: Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable- micro-o_news http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable- Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
The really amazing thing is not that a ringing cell phone could pop corn, but that exploding corn travels essentially straight up and down 15 times out of 15. -- Lauren From:Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:02/04/2011 04:04 PM Subject:RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.org Your doubts are well founded. It was all a viral marketing campaign to sell Bluetooth headsets. Popped corn was dropped onto the table and the unpopped kernels were digitally edited out. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/07/09/carroll.cellphone.popcorn.cnn http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/ 008/07/09/carroll.cellphone.popcorn.cnn Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com ] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: How much power to pop corn this fast? Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_news http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odh _pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_news Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: How much power to pop corn this fast?
The Radar lore has it that a Sailor walked somewhere in front of the new Radar antenna and the chocolate bar melted. And yes, you would pick the usual 2.4 GHz since water molecules have a resonance there that the builds up heat due to friction so said the physics prof. And we have hacked microwave ovens to get a cheap source of high frequency high power, just remove the door and bypass the interlock. You sure don't linger when moving devices in or out of the active field. We stood to the side and reached over, quickly. Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, pat.law...@slpower.com pat.law...@slpower.com wrote: From: pat.law...@slpower.com pat.law...@slpower.com Subject: Re: How much power to pop corn this fast? To: Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.com Cc: IEEE EMC forum emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 5:47 PM I think this 'phenomena' was discussed within the past couple of years. 1) Are you asking how much cell phone power it takes to cook popcorn? I don't know, but I bet the cell phone wouldn't meet the SAR limit. And they used differnt model cell phones, too. 2) Are you asking how much power a microwave horn concealed under the table would have to emit? I don't know that either, but the popcorn was put on the table for about 30 seconds before it popped. (Ignore the ritual of making the cell phones ring.) More interesting questions are: - Is it feasible to hack a microwave oven apart to get a powerful signal source for this demonstration? - If you could pick a signal frequency for the test, would you pick the usual 2.4GHz band used for microwave ovens, or something different? I remember hearing anecdotes about engineers (or was it Navy personnel?) cooking hot dogs in front of microwave antennas for fun. Pat Lawler EMC Engineer SL Power Electronics Corp. emc-p...@ieee.org wrote on 02/04/2011 01:41:13 PM: Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable- micro-o_news http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable- Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: How much power to pop corn this fast?
I think this 'phenomena' was discussed within the past couple of years. 1) Are you asking how much cell phone power it takes to cook popcorn? I don't know, but I bet the cell phone wouldn't meet the SAR limit. And they used differnt model cell phones, too. 2) Are you asking how much power a microwave horn concealed under the table would have to emit? I don't know that either, but the popcorn was put on the table for about 30 seconds before it popped. (Ignore the ritual of making the cell phones ring.) More interesting questions are: - Is it feasible to hack a microwave oven apart to get a powerful signal source for this demonstration? - If you could pick a signal frequency for the test, would you pick the usual 2.4GHz band used for microwave ovens, or something different? I remember hearing anecdotes about engineers (or was it Navy personnel?) cooking hot dogs in front of microwave antennas for fun. Pat Lawler EMC Engineer SL Power Electronics Corp. emc-p...@ieee.org wrote on 02/04/2011 01:41:13 PM: Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable- micro-o_news http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh_pop-corn-telephone-portable- Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
The most I ever measured, casually, was 35 V/m and about 7 watts, in short bursts. You can hear those bursts in the video recording. My micro at home takes minutes at a labeled 1000 watts to do the same. Thanks for the link! Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: From: Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com Subject: RE: How much power to pop corn this fast? To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 5:03 PM Your doubts are well founded. It was all a viral marketing campaign to sell Bluetooth headsets. Popped corn was dropped onto the table and the unpopped kernels were digitally edited out. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech 2008/07/09/carroll.cellphone.popcorn.cnn Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: How much power to pop corn this fast? Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5od h_pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_news Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: How much power to pop corn this fast?
Your doubts are well founded. It was all a viral marketing campaign to sell Bluetooth headsets. Popped corn was dropped onto the table and the unpopped kernels were digitally edited out. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/07/09/carroll.cellphone.popcorn.cnn Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: How much power to pop corn this fast? Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_news Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
How much power to pop corn this fast?
Why do I have doubts??? Isn't seeing believing ?? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5odhh pop-corn-telephone-portable-micro-o_news Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Speaking / Meeting opportunities - EMC Society, Philadelphia chapter
Dear List Members, The Philadelphia chapter of the IEEE EMC society is now planning its calendar of meetings for 2011. After resurrecting the chapter in 2008, “Philly EMC” was awarded “Chapter of the Year” for the Delaware Valley IEEE region in 2009, due in part to the relatively large audiences we have been able to draw in this part of the US; we averaged between 40 and 50 attendees each meeting. We are now actively seeking speakers for the 2011 season, with initial meetings dates planned for March, May and November. We are looking for speakers who can knowledgeably discuss the EMI implications for the following subjects: 1. Electric /hybrid vehicles 2. MIL SPEC 461 3. EMALS 4. HEMP 5. MIL SPEC 464 6. CISPR 16 We are also open to other proposed topics. If anyone on the list is interested, or knows of someone qualified that we may contact, please email Graham Kilshaw offline at gkils...@itempubs.com. Thank you in advance. Graham Kilshaw Chair, Philadelphia Chapter IEEE EMC Society Phone: 484 688 0300, extn. 13 gkils...@itempubs.com www.itempubs.com http://www.interferencetechnology.com/ Skype: graham.kilshaw - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: CE marking responsibilities
John, The primary responsibility is for the essential requirements in applicable CE marking directives. The use of a standard that has been listed for a particular directive in the Official Journal of the European Union allows you to presume conformance with the particular essential requirements of the directive as listed in the standard in an annex (appendix). It is important to note that the use of standards is not mandated by the directives (though it may well be mandated by custom in your industry or by your customers directly), and that a single standard might not cover all of the essential requirements in an applicable directive. There are many CE marking directives these days that could be applicable, such as energy efficiency requirements (for fans, standby modes, etc..) and the newly recast RoHS directive (not yet officially published, expected in April). Presuming your are exporting into EU, the person or company importing the item into the EU is ultimately responsible for conformance. This could well be a company affiliated with yours (i.e. the EU branch of your company), or an Authorized Representative in the EU could take responsibility if they have a written mandate from your company to do so. Regarding conformance after modifications, this can be tricky depending on the details of contracts and what you say in your documentation about additions to your system. Typically the owner of a system is responsible for conformance after they change the system unless, perhaps. the equipment supplier suggests in their documentation/communicaitons the changes are acceptable (e.g. adding expansion cards to a computer). If the system is a machine, the Machinery Directive has particular treatment for so-called 'partly completed machinery.' Regards, -- Lauren Crane (mr.) Product Regulatory Analyst | Corporate Product EHS | Applied Materials Office 512.272.6540 | Mobile 512.736.7201 | America - Europe - Asia -external use- ** Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From:John Cochran jcoch...@strongarm.com To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:02/04/2011 12:45 PM Subject:CE marking responsibilities Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.org I don’t think I have ever really been clear on what a manufacturer’s responsibilities are with applying a CE mark. We manufacture computer stations inside an enclosure for harsh environments. If a customer needs a CE mark on the system, to what standards are we responsible to test this system? This especially becomes murky when the customer is requesting an incomplete system, without a computer or some other components. Do we just supply a Declaration of Conformity with the standards that we do know the system complies with, then put the CE mark on the system? What if the components that are installed later, have problems with immunity to EMI or radiate outside of the limits in the standard? Are we as the manufacturer, responsible for improper application of the CE mark on our system? Of course, I know CE is a self-certification, but the manufacturer is responsible for compliance to the appropriate standards, if we mark the system with CE. I appreciate any and all opinions on this subject. Thanks, John - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
I would recommend looking here: http:/ www.narda-sts.us/products_lowfreq_meters.php We use a Narda meter for low frequency field emissions. The old EN 50366(now EN 62233) requires a meter like this. Those standards may also give you guidance on what typical limits are on household equipment. I won't comment on the validity of the test, but you can at least have the right equipment. David Schaefer Senior EMC Engineer TÜV SÜD America Inc Office: 651 638 0251 Cell: 612 578 6038 Fax: 651 638 0285 -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:12 PM To: Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
CE marking responsibilities
I don’t think I have ever really been clear on what a manufacturer’s responsibilities are with applying a CE mark. We manufacture computer stations inside an enclosure for harsh environments. If a customer needs a CE mark on the system, to what standards are we responsible to test this system? This especially becomes murky when the customer is requesting an incomplete system, without a computer or some other components. Do we just supply a Declaration of Conformity with the standards that we do know the system complies with, then put the CE mark on the system? What if the components that are installed later, have problems with immunity to EMI or radiate outside of the limits in the standard? Are we as the manufacturer, responsible for improper application of the CE mark on our system? Of course, I know CE is a self-certification, but the manufacturer is responsible for compliance to the appropriate standards, if we mark the system with CE. I appreciate any and all opinions on this subject. Thanks, John - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Standard Committee Withdraws Support, EMI in Electric Cars
I have read the SDCom comments. My guess is that the environment of cooperation evaporated a long time ago. http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/standa ds/sdcom/meetingfiles/P1775_SDCom_Proposed_Ballot_Comment_Resolution.pdf -patrick. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:54 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: FW: Standard Committee Withdraws Support, EMI in Electric Cars The first article under “Standards Watch” is interesting. Ghery S. Pettit From: stds-...@ieee.org [mailto:stds-...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Hare, Ed W1RFI Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:37 PM To: stds-...@ieee.org Subject: FW: Standard Committee Withdraws Support, EMI in Electric Cars This may be of some interest. From: Interference Technology [mailto:ad...@interferencetechnology.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:04 PM To: Hare, Ed W1RFI Subject: Standard Committee Withdraws Support, EMI in Electric Cars EMI/EMC News: Downloads, Products, Articles, and Forums. To ensure that you receive Interference Technology e-newsletters properly, please add the following domain to your e-mail safe list: [interferencetechnology.com] Web Version http://clicks.interference echnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwf ,n48,4vu,45cc,15ow,dgd9MLM_MID=928493 LM_MLID=29960MLM_SITEID=12346970MLM_UNIQUEID=0d3109941d | Send this message to a friend http://clicks.inte ferencetechnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7 mze,jwfh,n48,8ph,42r7,15ow,dgd9EMAIL_A DRESS=w1...@arrl.orgMLM_UNIQUEID=0d3109941dMLM_MID=928493 | Subscribe http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,9ap,lbe,15ow,dgd9 Interference Technologyhttp://item.gc publishing.com/fileadmin/images/emc_masthead.gif February 3, 2011 An Email Newsletter for Electromagnetic Compatibility In This Issue: Solving emission problems with EMI/RFI-suppressing connectors; Interference suppression using a balanced MLCC; Former EMI engineer turned teacher gains national recognition Standards Watch IEEE EMC Society Withdraws From Power Line Communications Committee Read More http://clicks.interferencete hnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,dawo,fodc,15ow,dgd9 Just Published: ETSI TS 102 800 V1.1.1 Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio spectrum Matters (ERM); Cognitive Programme Making and Special Events (C-PMSE); Protocols for spectrum access and sound quality control systems using cognitive interference mitigation techniques Read More http://clicks.interferencete hnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,dpbd,eqc9,15ow,dgd9 First Revision to Shunt Power Capacitors Guide Read More http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,59dk,9k9h,15ow,dgd9 http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,l4rk,g9fn,15ow,dgd9 http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,l4rk,g9fn,15ow,dgd9 http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,l4rk,g9fn,15ow,dgd9 CMC300 Series Amps for EMC Testing Applications - Free Datasheet IFI's CMC300 series amplifier provides a minimum of 300 watts of CW Power for the 10MHz to 1.0GHz frequency range. This type of amplifier is available at many power levels from 10 watts through 2000 watts. The unit is a very compact design in a single drawer 10.5”H (depending on the power level and options) x 19”W x 25.25”D. This model is ideal for the high power test requirements for pre-compliance testing, EMC testing and all lab and test installations. Read More http://clicks.interferencete hnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,l4rk,g9fn,15ow,dgd9 | Email Us mailto:sa...@ifi.com Feature Article Solving Emission Problems with EMI/RFI-Suppressing Connectors Dr. William E. Kunz Read More http://clicks.interferencete hnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,l596,akza,15ow,dgd9 Interference Suppression Using a Balanced MLCC Steve Weir and James Muccioli Read More http://clicks.interferencete hnology.com/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,5pcp,72ls,15ow,dgd9 http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,3p44,gwmw,15ow,dgd9 http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,3p44,gwmw,15ow,dgd9 http://clicks.interferencetechnology.c m/c.html?rtr=ons=7cmze,jwfh,n48,3p44,gwmw,15ow,dgd9 Do You Have a EMI/RFI Problem? Regardless of the application, you need to incorporate EMI/RFI shielding that is designed to meet your requirements. Using precision expanded metals in your shielding can greatly enhance the electromagnetic shielding for your applications and meet EMI/RFI compliance. Let our engineers develop a configuration that best suits your shielding requirements from the
RE: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation
Ryan et al, I thought that the Iphone app appears slick. Without reference to aliens, etc here's a source... Ergonomics, Inc has a number of magnetic field meters. Check out their website www.ergonomicsusa.com :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Regulatory Consultant Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
I had started off about our using a rubber chicken, but canceled thinking it might a little much. ps. I think the rubber chicken will make a great global warming meter, when it melts... Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com wrote: From: Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation To: Untitled emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 9:53 AM This reminds me of two evens from my past. 1. Back in the 70's home siding and window salesmen went door to door offering a free home energy analysis. Using a hand held device, the meter would increase as they walked toward a window showing the loss of energy. In fact, the meter was a Light Meter used by photographers. People are so gullible. 2. Again some years back, people were all freaked out about microwave ovens. A customer of ours purchased a hand held microwave detector (with meter movement) to measure the microwave fields leaking out of their ovens in all the employee break rooms. Our company sold them an unrelated device (carbon analyzer) that had a small electrode heater which emits a magnetic field at line frequency. Someone put the Microwave Meter next to our product and the meter jumped all over the place. They had a fit thinking that our product was emitting microwaves and they would not accept our explanation that the meter movement was just being screwed with by the magnetic field. BTW, I'm looking for a Global Warming Meter if anyone knows where I can get one. :o) The other Brian PS: The sense of humor displayed by some of the people on this email group really makes my day. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:49 PM To: Untitled Subject: Re: Gauss Meter recommendation If I lived in a state on the brink of bankruptcy, and falling into the Pacific, I might have trouble sleeping as well, but it's a bit of a stretch to blame insomnia on overhead power lines. It might not be much of a stretch to say that the reason CA is on the brink of bankruptcy is a populace that loses sleep and blames it on such minutiae. OTOH, if I lived out there and could make money off it, I might be a little more charitable. Mencken said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people, and I believe it was PT Barnum who said a sucker is born every minute. So my crankiness is likely just due to the fact that I'm not cleaning up on all the idiocy out there. Having said all that, if you were going to use a spectrum analyzer, you would need one that went down to power line frequencies. These tend to be more expensive than the garden variety kind that start at 9 kHz. And a biconical antenna is not your transducer of choice. You are looking at a handheld coil here. You need to have some kind of assessment of what you expect to see, because different meters cover different field intensities, and you need one optimized for what you want. Most EMF meters don't feed an external device, they just give a number, which purports to be the magnetic field from the power line. Ideally it would be a broadband device that would cover the power frequency and lots of harmonics, so you can say you are measuring everything out there. It isn't immediately obvious you need to break down the spectrum of power frequency and individual harmonics, unless the latest study shows that humans are particularly susceptible to a particular frequency or set of frequencies. When you get all done measuring the fields from the overheads, place the meter next to an appliance the home dwellers might spend some time around. My mother has a forty or fifty year old clock that is an electric motor that runs off the power mains. You set a meter next to it and it will bury the needle every time. Have fun - freak people out. Oh, yeah, you were actually looking for useful advice. You can put emf meter into a search engine and find any number of devices which are good enough for the purpose. They are likely useless, but as I said, good enough for the purpose. If you want a real meter, Walker Scientific makes these. Others do as well, but I'm familiar with Walker. One type of meter works on the principle of a loop driving an impedance much lower than that of the loop itself. The meter measures current out of the loop into the low impedance. If you do the math, you will see that the current level is proportional to the magnetic field, but is frequency--independent. That's what you want. Maybe around $1000 these days. Per my Swiss cheese memory cells, the model was a Walker VLF-80D, and it covered
Re: Standard group withdraws support
Scuttlebutt is it 's handbags at 5 paces Derek -Original Message- From: McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com To: Sarah Long sl...@itempubs.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:46 am Subject: RE: Standard group withdraws support Happens every time the control of the senate, congress, or Whitehouse change From: Sarah Long [mailto:sl...@itempubs.com mailto:sl...@itempubs.com? ] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Standard group withdraws support How common is it for a co-sponsor to withdraw its support during the standard development process? I'm wondering how SDCom's withdrawal will affect the development of the standard, if at all. IEEE EMC Society Withdraws From Power Line Communications Committee http://www.interferencetechnology.com/s andards-update/article/ieee-emc-society withdraws-from-power-line-communications-committee.html Sarah Long Content Manager ITEM Publications / Interference Technology Phone: 484.688.0300 x24 Fax: 484.688.0303 sl...@interferencetechnology.com www.interferencetechnology.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Standard group withdraws support
Happens every time the control of the senate, congress, or Whitehouse change From: Sarah Long [mailto:sl...@itempubs.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Standard group withdraws support How common is it for a co-sponsor to withdraw its support during the standard development process? I'm wondering how SDCom's withdrawal will affect the development of the standard, if at all. IEEE EMC Society Withdraws From Power Line Communications Committee http://www.interferencetechnology.com/s andards-update/article/ieee-emc-society withdraws-from-power-line-communications-committee.html Sarah Long Content Manager ITEM Publications / Interference Technology Phone: 484.688.0300 x24 Fax: 484.688.0303 sl...@interferencetechnology.com www.interferencetechnology.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Standard group withdraws support
I will make the assumption that this is not a troll. It is worth reading the original article at www.arrl.org/news/view/ieee-emc-society-standards-development-committee-wi thdraws-as-cosponsor-of-ieee-bpl-emc-standard I am not a gray-beard in the EMC field (am not even an EMC specialist), but am not aware of a previous occurrence of a complete withdrawal of the principal engineering organization from a standards committee. The appointed officials that head technical agencies of the US government have a long history of being torn between the physics, the political, and the industrial. And the latter two have often won, in the short term, over the former. The economy will continue to drive a BPL implementation in the U.S., and the immutable physics will, for now, will be ignored. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Sarah Long Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard group withdraws support How common is it for a co-sponsor to withdraw its support during the standard development process? I'm wondering how SDCom's withdrawal will affect the development of the standard, if at all. IEEE EMC Society Withdraws From Power Line Communications Committee http://www.interferencetechnology.com/standards-update/article/ieee-emc-so ciety-withdraws-from-power-line-communications-committee.html Sarah Long Content Manager ITEM Publications / Interference Technology Phone: 484.688.0300 x24 Fax: 484.688.0303 sl...@interferencetechnology.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
One could get an old café salt or pepper shaker, replace the salt or pepper with some flashing lights and bingo, Star Trek prop for Bones! Should be able to use for magnetic fields too! ;o) Regards, Denis Ryskamp Product Environmental Compliance Trimble Dayton 5475 Kellenburger Road Dayton, Ohio 45424 D: 01-937-245-5539 :: denis_rysk...@trimble.com Please support the Environment by only printing this email if absolutely necessary. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:56 AM To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation I'll have to see if there's an Android app for that. There is one that turns my Droid into a Tricorder. :-) Ghery S. Pettit -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 6:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Maybe someone can create an APP for a Smart Phone that will do the trick. I have an APP that turns by Phone into a Star Trek Communicator. One of my favorites. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Dan Roman Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Since we are talking pseudo-science here I would recommend getting something that looks hi-tech. Last thing you need in this situation is something that gives accurate measurements but looks like a plain old voltmeter with small field probes. The paranoid homeowners will be more impressed with some Star Trek prop rather than a real scientific instrument anyway! Get something that gives you real data, but this is going to be a dog and pony show as much as anything else. Bad situation to be in. While Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has been scientifically shown to be able to hack the human brain, the fields that this magnetic wands use are several orders of magnitude over what distant power lines or even the wiring in a house or appliance generates. Of course I may not be thinking straight as I listen to Green Day on a pair of headphones that are magnetizing my brain! Dan -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
I'll have to see if there's an Android app for that. There is one that turns my Droid into a Tricorder. :-) Ghery S. Pettit -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 6:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Maybe someone can create an APP for a Smart Phone that will do the trick. I have an APP that turns by Phone into a Star Trek Communicator. One of my favorites. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Dan Roman Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Since we are talking pseudo-science here I would recommend getting something that looks hi-tech. Last thing you need in this situation is something that gives accurate measurements but looks like a plain old voltmeter with small field probes. The paranoid homeowners will be more impressed with some Star Trek prop rather than a real scientific instrument anyway! Get something that gives you real data, but this is going to be a dog and pony show as much as anything else. Bad situation to be in. While Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has been scientifically shown to be able to hack the human brain, the fields that this magnetic wands use are several orders of magnitude over what distant power lines or even the wiring in a house or appliance generates. Of course I may not be thinking straight as I listen to Green Day on a pair of headphones that are magnetizing my brain! Dan -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
Brian, On my Android-based phone there are a variety of programs that use the built-in compass as a magnetic field detector or ferrous metal detector. One of these is called Tricorder and it has a magnetic flux meter. Doesn't pick up much of anything in a general office environment unless you put the phone in close proximity to ferrous metal or a power strip. Goes off the chart if I put it next to the subwoofer. Compass readings are likewise adversely affected. Which goes to show you that the earth's field greatly overpowers most of the magnetic fields we are exposed to in our homes and offices. Ryan is in the unfortunate position of having to prove a negative. Dan -Original Message- From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Maybe someone can create an APP for a Smart Phone that will do the trick. I have an APP that turns by Phone into a Star Trek Communicator. One of my favorites. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Dan Roman Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Since we are talking pseudo-science here I would recommend getting something that looks hi-tech. Last thing you need in this situation is something that gives accurate measurements but looks like a plain old voltmeter with small field probes. The paranoid homeowners will be more impressed with some Star Trek prop rather than a real scientific instrument anyway! Get something that gives you real data, but this is going to be a dog and pony show as much as anything else. Bad situation to be in. While Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has been scientifically shown to be able to hack the human brain, the fields that this magnetic wands use are several orders of magnitude over what distant power lines or even the wiring in a house or appliance generates. Of course I may not be thinking straight as I listen to Green Day on a pair of headphones that are magnetizing my brain! Dan -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David
Standard group withdraws support
How common is it for a co-sponsor to withdraw its support during the standard development process? I'm wondering how SDCom's withdrawal will affect the development of the standard, if at all. IEEE EMC Society Withdraws From Power Line Communications Committee http://www.interferencetechnology.com/s andards-update/article/ieee-emc-society withdraws-from-power-line-communications-committee.html Sarah Long Content Manager ITEM Publications / Interference Technology Phone: 484.688.0300 x24 Fax: 484.688.0303 sl...@interferencetechnology.com www.interferencetechnology.com http://www.interferencetechnology.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Gauss Meter recommendation
In message 0ed66cd2c9bd0a459d54fb9119a6056701bc7...@mailserver.lecotc.com, dated Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: BTW, I'm looking for a Global Warming Meter if anyone knows where I can get one. :o) http://www.taylorusa.com/maximum-minimum-thermometer-1.html -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Plural: data, criteria, phenomena. Singular: datum (different meaning: use 'data element' for a single item), criterion, phenomenon. 'Effect' is a noun, 'affect' is a verb (except in psychiatry). - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation
But there's an iPhone App for everything! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/emf-detector/id320832296?mt=8 Is there a useful App that hasn't been written? -Original Message- From: Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Fri, Feb 4, 2011 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Maybe someone can create an APP for a Smart Phone that will do the trick. I have an APP that turns by Phone into a Star Trek Communicator. One of my favorites. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org? ] On Behalf Of Dan Roman Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Since we are talking pseudo-science here I would recommend getting something that looks hi-tech. Last thing you need in this situation is something that gives accurate measurements but looks like a plain old voltmeter with small field probes. The paranoid homeowners will be more impressed with some Star Trek prop rather than a real scientific instrument anyway! Get something that gives you real data, but this is going to be a dog and pony show as much as anything else. Bad situation to be in. While Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has been scientifically shown to be able to hack the human brain, the fields that this magnetic wands use are several orders of magnitude over what distant power lines or even the wiring in a house or appliance generates. Of course I may not be thinking straight as I listen to Green Day on a pair of headphones that are magnetizing my brain! Dan -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com? ] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.com http://www.canoga.com/ FAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
Maybe someone can create an APP for a Smart Phone that will do the trick. I have an APP that turns by Phone into a Star Trek Communicator. One of my favorites. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Dan Roman Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Gauss Meter recommendation Since we are talking pseudo-science here I would recommend getting something that looks hi-tech. Last thing you need in this situation is something that gives accurate measurements but looks like a plain old voltmeter with small field probes. The paranoid homeowners will be more impressed with some Star Trek prop rather than a real scientific instrument anyway! Get something that gives you real data, but this is going to be a dog and pony show as much as anything else. Bad situation to be in. While Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has been scientifically shown to be able to hack the human brain, the fields that this magnetic wands use are several orders of magnitude over what distant power lines or even the wiring in a house or appliance generates. Of course I may not be thinking straight as I listen to Green Day on a pair of headphones that are magnetizing my brain! Dan -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
This reminds me of two evens from my past. 1. Back in the 70's home siding and window salesmen went door to door offering a free home energy analysis. Using a hand held device, the meter would increase as they walked toward a window showing the loss of energy. In fact, the meter was a Light Meter used by photographers. People are so gullible. 2. Again some years back, people were all freaked out about microwave ovens. A customer of ours purchased a hand held microwave detector (with meter movement) to measure the microwave fields leaking out of their ovens in all the employee break rooms. Our company sold them an unrelated device (carbon analyzer) that had a small electrode heater which emits a magnetic field at line frequency. Someone put the Microwave Meter next to our product and the meter jumped all over the place. They had a fit thinking that our product was emitting microwaves and they would not accept our explanation that the meter movement was just being screwed with by the magnetic field. BTW, I'm looking for a Global Warming Meter if anyone knows where I can get one. :o) The other Brian PS: The sense of humor displayed by some of the people on this email group really makes my day. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:49 PM To: Untitled Subject: Re: Gauss Meter recommendation If I lived in a state on the brink of bankruptcy, and falling into the Pacific, I might have trouble sleeping as well, but it's a bit of a stretch to blame insomnia on overhead power lines. It might not be much of a stretch to say that the reason CA is on the brink of bankruptcy is a populace that loses sleep and blames it on such minutiae. OTOH, if I lived out there and could make money off it, I might be a little more charitable. Mencken said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people, and I believe it was PT Barnum who said a sucker is born every minute. So my crankiness is likely just due to the fact that I'm not cleaning up on all the idiocy out there. Having said all that, if you were going to use a spectrum analyzer, you would need one that went down to power line frequencies. These tend to be more expensive than the garden variety kind that start at 9 kHz. And a biconical antenna is not your transducer of choice. You are looking at a handheld coil here. You need to have some kind of assessment of what you expect to see, because different meters cover different field intensities, and you need one optimized for what you want. Most EMF meters don't feed an external device, they just give a number, which purports to be the magnetic field from the power line. Ideally it would be a broadband device that would cover the power frequency and lots of harmonics, so you can say you are measuring everything out there. It isn't immediately obvious you need to break down the spectrum of power frequency and individual harmonics, unless the latest study shows that humans are particularly susceptible to a particular frequency or set of frequencies. When you get all done measuring the fields from the overheads, place the meter next to an appliance the home dwellers might spend some time around. My mother has a forty or fifty year old clock that is an electric motor that runs off the power mains. You set a meter next to it and it will bury the needle every time. Have fun - freak people out. Oh, yeah, you were actually looking for useful advice. You can put emf meter into a search engine and find any number of devices which are good enough for the purpose. They are likely useless, but as I said, good enough for the purpose. If you want a real meter, Walker Scientific makes these. Others do as well, but I'm familiar with Walker. One type of meter works on the principle of a loop driving an impedance much lower than that of the loop itself. The meter measures current out of the loop into the low impedance. If you do the math, you will see that the current level is proportional to the magnetic field, but is frequency--independent. That's what you want. Maybe around $1000 these days. Per my Swiss cheese memory cells, the model was a Walker VLF-80D, and it covered power frequency to maybe 50 kHz or thereabouts. I believe it had an output you could feed to a spectrum analyzer so you could see the individual harmonics, in addition tot he meter giving total field intensify as a number. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Jayasinghe, Ryan rjayasin...@canoga.com Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:11:54 -0800 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org Conversation: Gauss Meter recommendation Subject: Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have
RE: Gauss Meter recommendation
Since we are talking pseudo-science here I would recommend getting something that looks hi-tech. Last thing you need in this situation is something that gives accurate measurements but looks like a plain old voltmeter with small field probes. The paranoid homeowners will be more impressed with some Star Trek prop rather than a real scientific instrument anyway! Get something that gives you real data, but this is going to be a dog and pony show as much as anything else. Bad situation to be in. While Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has been scientifically shown to be able to hack the human brain, the fields that this magnetic wands use are several orders of magnitude over what distant power lines or even the wiring in a house or appliance generates. Of course I may not be thinking straight as I listen to Green Day on a pair of headphones that are magnetizing my brain! Dan -Original Message- From: Jayasinghe, Ryan [mailto:rjayasin...@canoga.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gauss Meter recommendation Dear Group, I have been tasked with recommending a Gauss meter and welcome your comments and experiences. This meter will be used to determine if a certain residence is receiving too much EMF. There are power lines just outside and the residents have trouble sleeping, they have other residences where sleep is not an issue. I have looked at some 3 axis models for around $300.00, ones with data logging are more. Is frequency weighting an important feature? We are also open to renting. We have a hp spectrum analyzer/biconical antenna but that would be too unwieldy. If portable or handheld spectrum analyzer would be the better tool, this maybe an opportunity for me to purchase one. Any advice is appreciated. Models methods anecdotes... Regard, Ryan Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Gauss Meter recommendation
In message 9d04b979323dcd428297dda95108893e0482c...@bb-corp-ex2.corp.cubic.cub, dated Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com writes: Orienting your sleeping axis to parallel the z-axis would solve all those E-W versus N-S problems, but then gravity would become a problem. Even a mildly sloping bed can be unusable if you head is lower than your legs. OTOH, I understand that military experience includes training in sleeping upright. Mankind continues to suffer due to the lack of a unified field sleep theory! I'm working on it, but I keep falling asleep. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Plural: data, criteria, phenomena. Singular: datum (different meaning: use 'data element' for a single item), criterion, phenomenon. 'Effect' is a noun, 'affect' is a verb (except in psychiatry). - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
