[PSES] SV: SRD for Japan

[Niels Hougaard]

Hi Helge

Thank you for the answer.

This gives the need for reading the ARIB STD-19 standard or having it
explained. Until now I have only been able to find it in Japanese; maybe it
does not exist in an English version.

Anybody knows?

 

Best regards,

Niels

Niels Hougaard

Bolls ApS

Ved Gadekæret 11F

DK-3660 Stenløse

Denmark

 

T: +45 48 18 35 66

F: +45 48 18 35 30

n...@bolls.dk

www.bolls.dk  

 

 

 

Fra: Helge Knudsen [mailto:hknud...@mail.tele.dk] 
Sendt: 3. april 2012 18:11
Til: Niels Hougaard; emc-p...@ieee.org
Emne: RE: SRD for Japan

 

Hi Niels,

 

Maybe this could help a bit. 

 

http://www.circuitdesign.de/compliance/japan2.asp

 

Best regards

 

Helge Knudsen

Denmark

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Niels
Hougaard
Sent: 3. april 2012 16:48
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: SRD for Japan

 

Esteemed list-members,

Product in question is a transmitter for a pager, using 429,100 MHz and 10
mW. Transmitter holds no previously approvals.

 

Problem is that the transmitter frequency is not within the limit of one
channel (channel separation 12,5 kHz).

 

According to what I have found the frequency band of 400 MHz should be for
Radio Pager which is regulated by ARIB standard STD-19. This standard I have
found but only in Japanese.

Do anybody know if the frequency band of 400 MHz could be used for a pager,
and if yes what are the limitation of transmitted power and channel
separation?

 

Thank you very much in advance

 

Niels Hougaard

Niels Hougaard

Bolls ApS

Ved Gadekæret 11F

DK-3660 Stenløse

Denmark

 

T: +45 48 18 35 66

F: +45 48 18 35 30

n...@bolls.dk

www.bolls.dk  

 

 

 

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Re: [PSES] So, what is up with the CENELEC website?

[Brian Oconnell]

There are several standards for this stuff, actually are RFCs.

Broken link may not indicate anything other than poor content maint.

Round robin latency, which may cause a timeout, could be dependent on which
side of the pond you are on, your admin using poisoned DNS, BW avail to your
company, etc. The indicated error is probably not in bottom three TCP
layers, but at app level for the database server. Port 8080 is common for a
CGI web proxy, i.e., non-root.

If you tracerroute indicates external to site and there is consistently no
response when click on embedded URLs, then DNS probably needs refresh or is
too trashed to be reliable.

Obviously a plot to control flow of information by the Galactic Overlords to
individuals that have been identified as subversive.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Doug Powell
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 10:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: So, what is up with the CENELEC website?

For many years I have consistently seen broken web pages and defective
search screens at CENELEC.  Just today I tried again and several of their
pages say:
Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance
downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.

Oracle-Application-Server-10g/10.1.2.0.0 Oracle-HTTP-Server Server at
cmc09app.cenorm.be Port 8080

Is anyone else having this problem?

I would really like to know the current status of EN 61010-1:2010 on CENELEC
and tried clicking on the "Search" button, "National Committees", "Technical
Committees", and "List of Technical Bodies".  All links have this problem.


http://www.cenelec.eu/aboutcenelec/contactus/contact_entry.htm

-Doug

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Re: [PSES] EN 60065 A12 - Protection against excessive sound pressure from personal music players

[John Woodgate]

In message , 
dated Tue, 3 Apr 2012, "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" 
 writes:


Club sound level is addressed (and severely followed up)  in many 
places I know of for many years, by automatic averaging sound level 
meters that do directly cut the volume of the PA-system.


Not in every club, and the meters measure the sound level where they 
are, which is not 30 cm from a 500 W loudspeaker!


I do not know if the (sound)levels are compatible with those for MP3 
players.


The meter settings are usually determined by local laws or consideration 
of complaints from neighbours. Until recently, what happened inside was 
regarded as 'self-inflicted', but now legislation designed to preserve 
the hearing of bar staff (not too good at the best of times!) has 
changed that somewhat.


Certainly in Britain, sound levels over 120 dB A SPL exist in some 
places in well-known clubs.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
If 'QWERTY' is an English keyboard, what language is 'WYSIWYG' for?

-

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Re: [PSES] EN 60065 A12 - Protection against excessive sound pressure from personal music players

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

Club sound level is addressed (and severely followed up)  in many places I know 
of for many years, 
by automatic averaging sound level meters that do directly cut the volume
of the PA-system.  I do not know if the (sound)levels are compatible with those 
for MP3 players.
Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen


 
g.grem...@cetest.nl
www.cetest.nl

Kiotoweg 363
3047 BG Rotterdam
T 31(0)104152426
F 31(0)104154953
 Before printing, think about the environment. 



-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens John Woodgate
Verzonden: dinsdag 3 april 2012 17:10
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: EN 60065 A12 - Protection against excessive sound pressure from 
personal music players

In message , dated Tue, 3 Apr 2012, 
Scott Xe  writes:

>This new requirement seems to kill the current generation of all 
>portable devices, i.e., portable CD players, MP3 players, etc.

I think you will find that most of the current generation of players do 
comply. So do some headphones, but other headphones are still available.
>
>Even though the new generation of high end units, Apple iPhone 4S, 
>Samsung Galaxy S2, Nokia 900, etc. are facing challenge.  The output 
>level of 27 mV seems too low for listening music.  The field is taking 
>such serious challenge without deteriorating the user experience.

I agree: I've never liked this requirement but political pressure on the 
Commission from activists with limited technical knowledge has left the 
standards experts from the industry little room to manoeuvre.

However, it is true that hearing loss among young people has greatly 
increased in recent years, but blaming it all on portable audio products 
is misguided and dangerous. Hearing damage cause by excessive exposure 
to high sound levels in clubs is not addressed at all. This needs a 
public education programme.
>
>This requirement is now part of GPSD and cannot be exempt from battery 
>operated products in LVD directive.

I don't understand your sentence, but the GPSD has been reviewed and it 
DOES NOT extend the requirement to things such as portable computers, 
even though they can be battery operated.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
If 'QWERTY' is an English keyboard, what language is 'WYSIWYG' for?

-

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-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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David Heald: 

[PSES] So, what is up with the CENELEC website?

[Doug Powell]

For many years I have consistently seen broken web pages and defective
search screens at CENELEC.  Just today I tried again and several of their
pages say:

Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance
downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
--
Oracle-Application-Server-10g/10.1.2.0.0 Oracle-HTTP-Server Server at
cmc09app.cenorm.be Port 8080


Is anyone else having this problem?
I would really like to know the current status of EN 61010-1:2010 on
CENELEC and tried clicking on the "Search" button, "National Committees",
"Technical Committees", and "List of Technical Bodies".  All links have
this problem.
http://www.cenelec.eu/aboutcenelec/contactus/contact_entry.htm


-Doug

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] EN 60065 A12 - Protection against excessive sound pressure from personal music players

[Scott Xe]

On 3/4/12 11:09 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

> In message , dated Tue, 3 Apr 2012,
> Scott Xe  writes:
> 
>> This new requirement seems to kill the current generation of all
>> portable devices, i.e., portable CD players, MP3 players, etc.
> 
> I think you will find that most of the current generation of players do
> comply. So do some headphones, but other headphones are still available.

Most of portable CD player with earphones exceeds 85dBA and sound output
level is far beyond 27 mV.
>> 
>> Even though the new generation of high end units, Apple iPhone 4S,
>> Samsung Galaxy S2, Nokia 900, etc. are facing challenge.  The output
>> level of 27 mV seems too low for listening music.  The field is taking
>> such serious challenge without deteriorating the user experience.
> 
> I agree: I've never liked this requirement but political pressure on the
> Commission from activists with limited technical knowledge has left the
> standards experts from the industry little room to manoeuvre.
> 
> However, it is true that hearing loss among young people has greatly
> increased in recent years, but blaming it all on portable audio products
> is misguided and dangerous. Hearing damage cause by excessive exposure
> to high sound levels in clubs is not addressed at all. This needs a
> public education programme.

I fully agree with you that it is a real issue to the teens.  I notice in
undergrounds lots of young people are wearing earphones with quite loud
volume.  I believe their hearing has been damaged by using the music player
under such circumstances.
>> 
>> This requirement is now part of GPSD and cannot be exempt from battery
>> operated products in LVD directive.
> 
> I don't understand your sentence, but the GPSD has been reviewed and it
> DOES NOT extend the requirement to things such as portable computers,
> even though they can be battery operated.

What about the implementing decision 2012/29/EU?

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Re: [PSES] SRD for Japan

[Helge Knudsen]

Hi Niels,

 

Maybe this could help a bit. 

 

http://www.circuitdesign.de/compliance/japan2.asp

 

Best regards

 

Helge Knudsen

Denmark

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Niels
Hougaard
Sent: 3. april 2012 16:48
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: SRD for Japan

 

Esteemed list-members,

Product in question is a transmitter for a pager, using 429,100 MHz and 10
mW. Transmitter holds no previously approvals.

 

Problem is that the transmitter frequency is not within the limit of one
channel (channel separation 12,5 kHz).

 

According to what I have found the frequency band of 400 MHz should be for
Radio Pager which is regulated by ARIB standard STD-19. This standard I have
found but only in Japanese.

Do anybody know if the frequency band of 400 MHz could be used for a pager,
and if yes what are the limitation of transmitted power and channel
separation?

 

Thank you very much in advance

 

Niels Hougaard

Niels Hougaard

Bolls ApS

Ved Gadekæret 11F

DK-3660 Stenløse

Denmark

 

T: +45 48 18 35 66

F: +45 48 18 35 30

n...@bolls.dk

www.bolls.dk  

 

 

 

-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  


-

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EN 60065 A12 - Protection against excessive sound pressure from personal music players

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated Tue, 3 Apr 2012, 
Scott Xe  writes:


This new requirement seems to kill the current generation of all 
portable devices, i.e., portable CD players, MP3 players, etc.


I think you will find that most of the current generation of players do 
comply. So do some headphones, but other headphones are still available.


Even though the new generation of high end units, Apple iPhone 4S, 
Samsung Galaxy S2, Nokia 900, etc. are facing challenge.  The output 
level of 27 mV seems too low for listening music.  The field is taking 
such serious challenge without deteriorating the user experience.


I agree: I've never liked this requirement but political pressure on the 
Commission from activists with limited technical knowledge has left the 
standards experts from the industry little room to manoeuvre.


However, it is true that hearing loss among young people has greatly 
increased in recent years, but blaming it all on portable audio products 
is misguided and dangerous. Hearing damage cause by excessive exposure 
to high sound levels in clubs is not addressed at all. This needs a 
public education programme.


This requirement is now part of GPSD and cannot be exempt from battery 
operated products in LVD directive.


I don't understand your sentence, but the GPSD has been reviewed and it 
DOES NOT extend the requirement to things such as portable computers, 
even though they can be battery operated.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
If 'QWERTY' is an English keyboard, what language is 'WYSIWYG' for?

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] SRD for Japan

[Niels Hougaard]

Esteemed list-members,

Product in question is a transmitter for a pager, using 429,100 MHz and 10
mW. Transmitter holds no previously approvals.

 

Problem is that the transmitter frequency is not within the limit of one
channel (channel separation 12,5 kHz).

 

According to what I have found the frequency band of 400 MHz should be for
Radio Pager which is regulated by ARIB standard STD-19. This standard I have
found but only in Japanese.

Do anybody know if the frequency band of 400 MHz could be used for a pager,
and if yes what are the limitation of transmitted power and channel
separation?

 

Thank you very much in advance

 

Niels Hougaard

Niels Hougaard

Bolls ApS

Ved Gadekæret 11F

DK-3660 Stenløse

Denmark

 

T: +45 48 18 35 66

F: +45 48 18 35 30

  n...@bolls.dk

  www.bolls.dk

 

 

 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EN 60065 A12 - Protection against excessive sound pressure from personal music players

[Scott Xe]

This new requirement seems to kill the current generation of all portable
devices, i.e., portable CD players, MP3 players, etc.

Even though the new generation of high end units, Apple iPhone 4S, Samsung
Galaxy S2, Nokia 900, etc. are facing challenge.  The output level of 27 mV
seems too low for listening music.  The field is taking such serious
challenge without deteriorating the user experience.

This requirement is now part of GPSD and cannot be exempt from battery
operated products in LVD directive.

We are looking forward to the new generation of innovative music players
that launched later this year and able to comply with this new requirements
Regards,

Scott

On 2/4/12 11:22 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

> In message , dated Mon, 2 Apr 2012,
> Scott Xe  writes:
> 
>> It is applied to almost all portable audio players and earphones or
>> headphones intended to be used with.  What about the DVD players, PMPs,
>> etc. that may use earphones/headphones or built-in speaker?
> 
> The standard very strictly limits the type of product to which the
> requirements apply. You have to study the exact wording of the standard.
> The requirements do not apply to anything else, even if that seems
> illogical.

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] CE mark for China?

[Ed Price]

To enforce their trademark, wouldn't the CE mark have to be displaying a
little "TM" or an "R in a circle" next to the CE? Perhaps European trademark
marking law is different than in the USA, but here, to maintain your
trademark, you would have to mark the mark.

 

Ed Price

El Cajon, CA

USA

 

 -Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE mark for China?

 

Gary

 

 

The "CE" mark is, I believe, now trademarked.

 

Regards

Charlie

 


-

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