[PSES] Li battery requirements per 60950-1
Good People, Questions for members, or those that have contact with members, of TC108 and/or the North American STP. What is the intent of the last(A2) revision of 60950-1 for Li batteries? Is the requirement for battery assessment to IEC62133 intended just for batteries that are installed in the end-use equipment, or does it also extend to a stand-alone charger where that battery is subject to a 'temporary' insertion into a slot and is not permanently installed? Thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Checklist for standards
As I pour through the various standards applicable to my product and build the TCF leading to CE Marking, it seems to me that somewhere there should be a checklist of the respective standards to simplify this effort. I have heard that the IEEE may even have a paid service. The idea of typing my way through the applicable elements for the standards is arduously slow. Any suggestions appreciated. Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Li battery requirements per 60950-1
In message 85ee5c3c683e44e6bb316a26baa77...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com , dated Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Is the requirement for battery assessment to IEC62133 intended just for batteries that are installed in the end-use equipment, or does it also extend to a stand-alone charger where that battery is subject to a 'temporary' insertion into a slot and is not permanently installed? It covers everything 'portable', i.e. not installed. Whether that was intended or not... Portable secondary sealed cells and batteries (other than button) containing alkaline or other non-acid electrolyte shall comply with IEC 62133. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid faciamus nisi sit? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Checklist for standards
In message 9b85ad5dba8e443ab9b11edc0a724...@blupr01mb147.prod.exchangelabs.com, dated Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Rick Busche rick.bus...@qnergy.com writes: As I pour through the various standards applicable to my product and build the TCF leading to CE Marking, it seems to me that somewhere there should be a checklist of the respective standards to simplify this effort. I have heard that the IEEE may even have a paid service. The idea of typing my way through the applicable elements for the standards is arduously slow. Any suggestions appreciated. IEC produces Test Report Forms, but they are costly - 550 Swiss francs. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid faciamus nisi sit? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Checklist for standards
Have wished for such a checklist myself. Most conformity assessment bodies will provide such a service. Ultimately, informal guidance from agencies that issue the test certs, time using the Emperor's Search Engine, and engineering judgment from people that have been there is what are used by most compliance people. Your first stop would be the list of marking directives (note that there are some New Approach directives that do not require the CE mark), followed by a visit to the list of harmonized standards for that directive. Your next question would be are there are essential requirements that are scoped in a non-marking directive for your particular product. If you are careful to do a 'deep' search, a sanity check could come from looking at declarations published by other companies for similar products. An NB guy once said that the manufacturer shall decide which directives are applicable. Brian -Original Message- From: Rick Busche [mailto:rick.bus...@qnergy.com] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Checklist for standards As I pour through the various standards applicable to my product and build the TCF leading to CE Marking, it seems to me that somewhere there should be a checklist of the respective standards to simplify this effort. I have heard that the IEEE may even have a paid service. The idea of typing my way through the applicable elements for the standards is arduously slow. Any suggestions appreciated. Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Checklist for standards
If you are careful to do a 'deep' search, a sanity check could come from looking at declarations published by other companies for similar products. It can also lead you down the path of copying someone else's mistake as well though :) 3rd parties can, and do, provide this type advice. Couple of caveats though: - the 3rd party must fully understand the product, and all the applicable directives - the manufacturer has to clearly explain what the product does (and doesn't do), rather than relying on osmosis or telepathy for transfer of relevant information. Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: 13 October 2014 19:31 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Checklist for standards Have wished for such a checklist myself. Most conformity assessment bodies will provide such a service. Ultimately, informal guidance from agencies that issue the test certs, time using the Emperor's Search Engine, and engineering judgment from people that have been there is what are used by most compliance people. Your first stop would be the list of marking directives (note that there are some New Approach directives that do not require the CE mark), followed by a visit to the list of harmonized standards for that directive. Your next question would be are there are essential requirements that are scoped in a non-marking directive for your particular product. If you are careful to do a 'deep' search, a sanity check could come from looking at declarations published by other companies for similar products. An NB guy once said that the manufacturer shall decide which directives are applicable. Brian -Original Message- From: Rick Busche [mailto:rick.bus...@qnergy.com] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Checklist for standards As I pour through the various standards applicable to my product and build the TCF leading to CE Marking, it seems to me that somewhere there should be a checklist of the respective standards to simplify this effort. I have heard that the IEEE may even have a paid service. The idea of typing my way through the applicable elements for the standards is arduously slow. Any suggestions appreciated. Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Checklist for standards
Good point. When providing regulatory requirements and writing my initial test plans it is, nonetheless a starting point. It can also assist in providing an engineering rationale for the TCF where a directive or a specific standard is NOT used a basis for presumption of conformity. For example - looked at another's similarly scoped product that was declared to directives X and Y using standards A B and C because it was intended to be used in conditions 1 2 3 and 4, but my little box was only used per conditions 1 and 3, so excluded standard C that scoped use under conditions 2 and 4, and stated rationale in the Technical File. Have never used a 3d party for this, so dunno if these are 'usable' services. As for osmosis or telepathy, my employer's sales/marketing people believe that these are correct and appropriate methods of information transfer. Brian -Original Message- From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:39 AM To: Brian Oconnell; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Checklist for standards If you are careful to do a 'deep' search, a sanity check could come from looking at declarations published by other companies for similar products. It can also lead you down the path of copying someone else's mistake as well though :) 3rd parties can, and do, provide this type advice. Couple of caveats though: - the 3rd party must fully understand the product, and all the applicable directives - the manufacturer has to clearly explain what the product does (and doesn't do), rather than relying on osmosis or telepathy for transfer of relevant information. Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: 13 October 2014 19:31 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Checklist for standards Have wished for such a checklist myself. Most conformity assessment bodies will provide such a service. Ultimately, informal guidance from agencies that issue the test certs, time using the Emperor's Search Engine, and engineering judgment from people that have been there is what are used by most compliance people. Your first stop would be the list of marking directives (note that there are some New Approach directives that do not require the CE mark), followed by a visit to the list of harmonized standards for that directive. Your next question would be are there are essential requirements that are scoped in a non-marking directive for your particular product. If you are careful to do a 'deep' search, a sanity check could come from looking at declarations published by other companies for similar products. An NB guy once said that the manufacturer shall decide which directives are applicable. Brian -Original Message- From: Rick Busche [mailto:rick.bus...@qnergy.com] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Checklist for standards As I pour through the various standards applicable to my product and build the TCF leading to CE Marking, it seems to me that somewhere there should be a checklist of the respective standards to simplify this effort. I have heard that the IEEE may even have a paid service. The idea of typing my way through the applicable elements for the standards is arduously slow. Any suggestions appreciated. Rick - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] electronic design related postings on Twitter
Just started my technical posts to Twitter with a post on dielectric breakdown. At least for now, I envision this as a replacement for my old HFNews which became too much work maintaining the email list. On Twitter go to @dougcsmith_ee Doug University of Oxford Tutor Department for Continuing Education Oxford, Oxfordshire, United Kingdom -- ___ _Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 60941 = Boulder City, NV 89006-0941 _ / \ / \ _TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108/570-6013 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o | Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Web: http://www.dsmith.org -- On 10/9/14 8:48 PM, Douglas Smith wrote: Hi Everyone, I am going to try sending short "tweets" on electronic design and troubleshooting you may be interested in. If you want to see them, look at: @dougcsmith_ee on Twitter. It it proves useful to people I may permanently keep doing it. Just did a test posting. Doug -- University of Oxford Tutor Department for Continuing Education Oxford, Oxfordshire, United Kingdom -- ___ _Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 60941 = Boulder City, NV 89006-0941 _ / \ / \ _TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108/570-6013 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o | Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Web: http://www.dsmith.org -- - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Li battery requirements per 60950-1
Good point Brian. Also standard says portable cells and batteries. Does it mean that no IEC 62133 approval is required if battery is installed in fixed device, e.g. transmitter? Best regards, Bostjan Boštjan Glavič Vodja laboratorija, Laboratorij za elektroniko Head of Laboratory, Laboratory of Electronic Engineering [SIQlogo60px] www.siq.sihttp://www.siq.si/ SIQ Ljubljana, Trzaska c. 2, SI-1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia, VAT ID: SI23509678 t +386 (0)1 4778 265tel:+386%20(0)1%204778%20265, m +386 (0)41 391 283tel:+386%20(0)41%20391%20283, f +386 (0)1 4778 444tel:+386%20(0)1%204778%20444 On 13. okt. 2014, at 19:22, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.commailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote: Good People, Questions for members, or those that have contact with members, of TC108 and/or the North American STP. What is the intent of the last(A2) revision of 60950-1 for Li batteries? Is the requirement for battery assessment to IEC62133 intended just for batteries that are installed in the end-use equipment, or does it also extend to a stand-alone charger where that battery is subject to a 'temporary' insertion into a slot and is not permanently installed? Thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
