Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Brent DeWitt
Agreed Ken.  In this case the e-field conversion is irrelevant, and the
specified antenna factor is what it is.  

 

From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 11:11 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
Use]

 

If we go all the way back to the OP:

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to
be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??


We can see that whether we are in the far field or not doesn't matter at
all.

If we were using an electric field probe (say a 41" rod) to measure to a
limit expressed in dBuA/m or dBpT, then we would absolutely have to make an
assumption about the impedance of the wave in order to use a pure electric
field measurement to get at magnetic field characterization.

But that is not the case: we are using a shielded loop which not only
inherently measures the magnetic field, but rejects the electric field.  So
we have a limit expressed in units of magnetic flux density, which in air is
directly proportional to magnetic field (the 2 dB factor discussed
previously) and we have a loop antenna factor that gets us from the EMI
receiver measured rf potential to the magnetic field impinging on the loop
that induced it.

Problem solved; case closed.

P.S.  For any who aren't convinced or don't follow the logic, look at the
antenna factors here:

http://www.ets-lindgren.com/charts/6512

Both factors are the same except for the 51.5 dB ohm offset, discussed
previously and both clearly exhibit the Faraday Law response of a loop to a
magnetic field as a function of increasing frequency. One can even derive
the loop inductance by looking at where the Faraday Law proportionality to
frequency flattens out: that is where the 50 ohm receiver impedance begins
to load the inductive output impedance of the loop.  It is not the magnetic
antenna factor that is in question; it is the electric field antenna factor
that makes the assumption of a plane wave. The magnetic field will be
measured precisely; the electric field measured using this loop is a
guesstimate based on a far-field assumption.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: Cortland Richmond mailto:k...@earthlink.net> >
> Reply-To: mailto:k...@earthlink.net> >
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:13:53 -0500
> To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions
[General 
> Use]
> 
> On 2/27/2017 7:53 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:
>> I think Ken's rational makes sense to me, since the 51.5 is derived from 
>> 20*log(377).
>> 
>> 
> Sure, but now we're back to how close we are -- wavelengths -- to the
emitter. 
> 20*log(??)
> 
> Low frequencies can be tricky,  and I once had to double-check a test 
> lab (not yours) results at a vendor, dragging the EUT out to their 
> parking lot then wheeling a cart with a 6510 loop antenna, battery, AOR 
> AR5000 receiver and RMS voltmeter [all mine] away to see  how fast the 
> signal dropped with distance compared to 3m.
> 
> A fun time was NOT had, but I probably came across as a mad scientist. 
> Again. At least no one ran out of a chamber...
> 
> 
> Cortland Richmond KA5S
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Brent DeWitt
MANY years ago when I ran the Amador lab in Colorado, we had a well-known RFID 
customer whose tags read at 150 kHz.  Measurement distance for the FCC limit 
was 300 meters.  It just happened that the far corner of our 8-acre property 
was very close to 300 meters as measured by my mountain bike's odometer (before 
cheap accurate GPS).  Honda generator, R&S loop and receiver in tow, I made 
measurements at 300, 100, 30 and 10 to establish the fall off curve.  It was 
close to 60 dB/decade and the FCC accepted my curve for subsequent 
measurements.  "Near field" is a very long distance at that frequency!


Brent G DeWitt, AB1LF
Milford, MA



-Original Message-
From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 9:14 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

On 2/27/2017 7:53 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:
> I think Ken's rational makes sense to me, since the 51.5 is derived from 
> 20*log(377).
>
>
Sure, but now we're back to how close we are -- wavelengths -- to the emitter. 
20*log(??)

Low frequencies can be tricky,  and I once had to double-check a test lab (not 
yours) results at a vendor, dragging the EUT out to their parking lot then 
wheeling a cart with a 6510 loop antenna, battery, AOR
AR5000 receiver and RMS voltmeter [all mine] away to see  how fast the signal 
dropped with distance compared to 3m.

A fun time was NOT had, but I probably came across as a mad scientist. 
Again. At least no one ran out of a chamber...


Cortland Richmond KA5S

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ken Javor
If we go all the way back to the OP:

> The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
> range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
> The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
> provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
> So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to be
> entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

We can see that whether we are in the far field or not doesn¹t matter at
all.

If we were using an electric field probe (say a 41² rod) to measure to a
limit expressed in dBuA/m or dBpT, then we would absolutely have to make an
assumption about the impedance of the wave in order to use a pure electric
field measurement to get at magnetic field characterization.

But that is not the case: we are using a shielded loop which not only
inherently measures the magnetic field, but rejects the electric field.  So
we have a limit expressed in units of magnetic flux density, which in air is
directly proportional to magnetic field (the 2 dB factor discussed
previously) and we have a loop antenna factor that gets us from the EMI
receiver measured rf potential to the magnetic field impinging on the loop
that induced it.

Problem solved; case closed.

P.S.  For any who aren¹t convinced or don¹t follow the logic, look at the
antenna factors here:

http://www.ets-lindgren.com/charts/6512

Both factors are the same except for the 51.5 dB ohm offset, discussed
previously and both clearly exhibit the Faraday Law response of a loop to a
magnetic field as a function of increasing frequency. One can even derive
the loop inductance by looking at where the Faraday Law proportionality to
frequency flattens out: that is where the 50 ohm receiver impedance begins
to load the inductive output impedance of the loop.  It is not the magnetic
antenna factor that is in question; it is the electric field antenna factor
that makes the assumption of a plane wave. The magnetic field will be
measured precisely; the electric field measured using this loop is a
guesstimate based on a far-field assumption.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: Cortland Richmond 
> Reply-To: 
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:13:53 -0500
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> On 2/27/2017 7:53 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:
>> I think Ken's rational makes sense to me, since the 51.5 is derived from
>> 20*log(377).
>> 
>> 
> Sure, but now we're back to how close we are -- wavelengths -- to the emitter.
> 20*log(??)
> 
> Low frequencies can be tricky,  and I once had to double-check a test
> lab (not yours) results at a vendor, dragging the EUT out to their
> parking lot then wheeling a cart with a 6510 loop antenna, battery, AOR
> AR5000 receiver and RMS voltmeter [all mine] away to see  how fast the
> signal dropped with distance compared to 3m.
> 
> A fun time was NOT had, but I probably came across as a mad scientist.
> Again. At least no one ran out of a chamber...
> 
> 
> Cortland Richmond KA5S
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 


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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Cortland Richmond

On 2/27/2017 7:53 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:

I think Ken's rational makes sense to me, since the 51.5 is derived from 
20*log(377).



Sure, but now we're back to how close we are -- wavelengths -- to the emitter. 
20*log(??)

Low frequencies can be tricky,  and I once had to double-check a test 
lab (not yours) results at a vendor, dragging the EUT out to their 
parking lot then wheeling a cart with a 6510 loop antenna, battery, AOR 
AR5000 receiver and RMS voltmeter [all mine] away to see  how fast the 
signal dropped with distance compared to 3m.


A fun time was NOT had, but I probably came across as a mad scientist. 
Again. At least no one ran out of a chamber...



Cortland Richmond KA5S

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Brent DeWitt
I think Ken's rational makes sense to me, since the 51.5 is derived from 
20*log(377).  

Brent DeWitt, AB1LF
Milford, MA



-Original Message-
From: Macy [mailto:m...@basicisp.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 2:54 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Accuracy within 1%, if measured outside the source loop by 3X, which is like 
'far field'

--- ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote:

From: Ken Javor 
To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:36:12 -0600

It's valid in the absence of a magnetic material (relative permeability = 1).  
The 51.5 dB factor is based on the far field.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: John Woodgate 
> Reply-To: John Woodgate 
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:07:27 -
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions 
> [General Use]
> 
> I doubt that, because it's valid at audio frequencies, which 
> undoubtedly means 'near field'.
> 
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO   Own Opinions Only 
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
> 
> Sylvae in aeternum manent.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 6:02 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions 
> [General Use]
> 
> On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John Macaulay wrote:
>> The difference between dB(pT) and dB( A/m) is 2 dB.
>> 
>> dB(pT) -2 = dB( A/m)
> 
> This is
> 
> 
> true only in the Far Field.
> 

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Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Brent DeWitt
S/m does actually make sense (to me) as the antenna factor units for getting
magnetic field strength.  Since the input to our SA or receiver measures
voltage, we get back to current by multiplying the voltage times the
conductivity, or 1 over the impedance.  That doesn't directly get you to
Teslas, but Amps/m.

 

Brent G DeWitt, AB1LF
Milford, MA

 

 

 

 

From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:35 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

 

Ralph:

 

I'm afraid that your explanation didn't get through to me.

 

When I think of an electric field, I think of two voltage levels separated
by a distance, so Volts per meter seems very descriptive. For instance, two
plates, one meter apart, with one plate at 5 Volts and the other plate at 15
Volts, yields a field strength of 10 Volts per meter.

 

Going logarithmic is simply a convenience for thinking about widely
differing voltage levels, so again, very straight forward. Of course, you
have to set a reference foe the log scale, so Volts or microvolts are
equally valid.

 

OTOH, mho/cm for a field is pretty obscure to me. Who uses that metric, and
how? 

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

It's about as obscure as using "dBuV/m" for field strength

 

Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric

 

 

From: Ed Price [  mailto:edpr...@cox.net]

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:37 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

 

Andrew:

 

I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.

 

I did find one site:

 

 

http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.p
df

 

which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength
in "dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the
antenna factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.

 

This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m,
to electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.

 

Ed Price

WB6WSN

Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-

From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) [

mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com]

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM

To:   mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

 

Hi All

 

I need some help in obtaining the correct result.

 

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.

The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.

So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to
be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

 Andrew Price

 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division

 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)

 

 Leonardo MW Ltd

 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK

 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308

 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888

 

mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com%3cmailto:andrew.p.price@leonardoco
mpany.com>

 leonardocomapany.com

HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS /
SPACE

 

* Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

 

 

Leonardo MW Ltd

Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex
SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132



This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender.

You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute
its contents to any other person.



 

-



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 mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>

 

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Co

Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ken Javor
Oops ­ sorry. What Tom Sato said.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




From: Ken Javor 
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:57:51 -0600
To: 
Conversation: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Starting with an rf potential indicated on an EMI receiver, using the
stipulated mho/m antenna factor yields amps/meter.

Makes sense to me if the limit is in terms of amps per meter.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




From: Ed Price 
Reply-To: Ed Price 
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 14:34:44 -0800
To: 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Ralph:
 
I¹m afraid that your explanation didn¹t get through to me.
 
When I think of an electric field, I think of two voltage levels separated
by a distance, so Volts per meter seems very descriptive. For instance, two
plates, one meter apart, with one plate at 5 Volts and the other plate at 15
Volts, yields a field strength of 10 Volts per meter.
 
Going logarithmic is simply a convenience for thinking about widely
differing voltage levels, so again, very straight forward. Of course, you
have to set a reference foe the log scale, so Volts or microvolts are
equally valid.
 
OTOH, mho/cm for a field is pretty obscure to me. Who uses that metric, and
how? 
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 
It's about as obscure as using "dBuV/m" for field strength
 
Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric
 
 
From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net  ]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:37 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
 
Andrew:
 
I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.
 
I did find one site:
 
http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.p
df 
 
 
which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength
in "dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the
antenna factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.
 
This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m,
to electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 
-Original Message-
From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK)
[mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com
 ]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
 
Hi All
 
I need some help in obtaining the correct result.
 
The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to
be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??
 
Regards
Andy
 
 
 Andrew Price
 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division
 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)
 
 Leonardo MW Ltd
 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK
 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308
 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888
 
mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com%3cmailto:andrew.p.price@leonardoco
mpany.com 
 >
 leonardocomapany.com
HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS /
SPACE
 
* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
 
 
 
 
Leonardo MW Ltd
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex
SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

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Attachment

Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ken Javor
Starting with an rf potential indicated on an EMI receiver, using the
stipulated mho/m antenna factor yields amps/meter.

Makes sense to me if the limit is in terms of amps per meter.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




From: Ed Price 
Reply-To: Ed Price 
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 14:34:44 -0800
To: 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Ralph:
 
I¹m afraid that your explanation didn¹t get through to me.
 
When I think of an electric field, I think of two voltage levels separated
by a distance, so Volts per meter seems very descriptive. For instance, two
plates, one meter apart, with one plate at 5 Volts and the other plate at 15
Volts, yields a field strength of 10 Volts per meter.
 
Going logarithmic is simply a convenience for thinking about widely
differing voltage levels, so again, very straight forward. Of course, you
have to set a reference foe the log scale, so Volts or microvolts are
equally valid.
 
OTOH, mho/cm for a field is pretty obscure to me. Who uses that metric, and
how? 
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 
It's about as obscure as using "dBuV/m" for field strength
 
Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric
 
 
From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net  ]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:37 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
 
Andrew:
 
I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.
 
I did find one site:
 
http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.p
df 
 
 
which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength
in "dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the
antenna factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.
 
This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m,
to electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 
-Original Message-
From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK)
[mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com
 ]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
 
Hi All
 
I need some help in obtaining the correct result.
 
The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to
be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??
 
Regards
Andy
 
 
 Andrew Price
 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division
 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)
 
 Leonardo MW Ltd
 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK
 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308
 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888
 
mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com%3cmailto:andrew.p.price@leonardoco
mpany.com 
 >
 leonardocomapany.com
HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS /
SPACE
 
* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
 
 
 
 
Leonardo MW Ltd
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex
SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
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  can be used for graphics (in
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Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ed Price
Ralph:

 

I'm afraid that your explanation didn't get through to me.

 

When I think of an electric field, I think of two voltage levels separated
by a distance, so Volts per meter seems very descriptive. For instance, two
plates, one meter apart, with one plate at 5 Volts and the other plate at 15
Volts, yields a field strength of 10 Volts per meter.

 

Going logarithmic is simply a convenience for thinking about widely
differing voltage levels, so again, very straight forward. Of course, you
have to set a reference foe the log scale, so Volts or microvolts are
equally valid.

 

OTOH, mho/cm for a field is pretty obscure to me. Who uses that metric, and
how? 

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

It's about as obscure as using "dBuV/m" for field strength

 

Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric

 

 

From: Ed Price [  mailto:edpr...@cox.net]

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:37 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

 

Andrew:

 

I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.

 

I did find one site:

 

 

http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.p
df

 

which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength
in "dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the
antenna factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.

 

This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m,
to electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.

 

Ed Price

WB6WSN

Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-

From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) [

mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com]

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM

To:   mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

 

Hi All

 

I need some help in obtaining the correct result.

 

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.

The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.

So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to
be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

 Andrew Price

 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division

 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)

 

 Leonardo MW Ltd

 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK

 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308

 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888

 

mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com%3cmailto:andrew.p.price@leonardoco
mpany.com>

 leonardocomapany.com

HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS /
SPACE

 

* Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

 

 

Leonardo MW Ltd

Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex
SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132



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and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
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You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute
its contents to any other person.



 

-



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Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread T.Sato
On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:15:43 +,
  "Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK)"  wrote:

> The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
> range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
> The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors 
> provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
> So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to 
> be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

By adding magnetic antenna factor in dBS/m to measured voltage in dBuV,
we can get magnetic field strength in dBuA/m.
(S/m x uV = (uA/uV)/m x uV = uA/m)

Because 1 uA/m = 1.257 pT hence 0 dBuA/m = 1.99 dBpT in air, we can
get field strength in dBpT by adding 1.99 dB(pT/(uA/m)) to the field
strength in dBuA/m.

Regards,
Tom

-- 
Tomonori Sato  
URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Macy
Accuracy within 1%, if measured outside the source loop by 3X, which is like 
'far field'

--- ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote:

From: Ken Javor 
To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:36:12 -0600

It's valid in the absence of a magnetic material (relative permeability =
1).  The 51.5 dB factor is based on the far field.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: John Woodgate 
> Reply-To: John Woodgate 
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:07:27 -
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> I doubt that, because it's valid at audio frequencies, which undoubtedly means
> 'near field'.
> 
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO ­ Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
> 
> Sylvae in aeternum manent.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 6:02 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John Macaulay wrote:
>> The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.
>> 
>> dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)
> 
> This is
> 
> 
> true only in the Far Field.
> 

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread John Woodgate
The phase angle between the electric and magnetic fields appears nowhere in the
math. Electric field and 51.5 dB aren't even mentioned, nor 2.653 m$ (the fee
for entering an infinitely wide-open door!).  This purely a magnetic field
relationship, B = µ_oH.


With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.


-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 7:36 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

It's valid in the absence of a magnetic material (relative permeability =
1).  The 51.5 dB factor is based on the far field.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: John Woodgate 
> Reply-To: John Woodgate 
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:07:27 -
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> I doubt that, because it's valid at audio frequencies, which undoubtedly means
> 'near field'.
> 
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO ­ Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
> 
> Sylvae in aeternum manent.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 6:02 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John Macaulay wrote:
>> The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.
>> 
>> dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)
> 
> This is
> 
> 
> true only in the Far Field.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ken Javor
It's valid in the absence of a magnetic material (relative permeability =
1).  The 51.5 dB factor is based on the far field.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: John Woodgate 
> Reply-To: John Woodgate 
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:07:27 -
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> I doubt that, because it's valid at audio frequencies, which undoubtedly means
> 'near field'.
> 
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO ­ Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
> 
> Sylvae in aeternum manent.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 6:02 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General
> Use]
> 
> On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John Macaulay wrote:
>> The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.
>> 
>> dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)
> 
> This is
> 
> 
> true only in the Far Field.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Cortland Richmond

On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John McAuley wrote:

The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.

dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)




His customer wants dB s/m, which is not printable with the TE software.  

From the EMCO manual:





/

/Cortland Richmond/
/


.

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread John Woodgate
I doubt that, because it's valid at audio frequencies, which undoubtedly means 
'near field'.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.


-Original Message-
From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 6:02 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John Macaulay wrote:
> The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.
>
> dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)

This is


true only in the Far Field.

-

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Cortland Richmond

On 2/27/2017 12:23 PM, John Macaulay wrote:

The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.

dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)


This is


true only in the Far Field.

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread John McAuley
The difference between dB(pT) and dB(µA/m) is 2 dB.

dB(pT) -2 = dB(µA/m)


-Original Message-
From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: 27 February 2017 16:45
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:
> The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
> range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
> The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors 
> provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.

On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:

> ... customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test 
> over the range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
> The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors 
> provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
> So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction 
> factor to be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a 
> result is obtained??

What Ed Price said. Take a look at
http://www.ets-lindgren.com/manuals/6512.pdf page 31 for the  6512 and 
page 33 for the equation.   Send along a copy of the correction factors 
from your antenna's chart with the difference between the two curves and an 
explanation that the software apparently does not accommodate other
units)


Cortland Richmond

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Gray, David
Hi, any chance that you are using TILE software?
-David

-Original Message-
From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 8:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:
> The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
> range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
> The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors 
> provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.

On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:

> ... customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test 
> over the range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
> The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors 
> provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
> So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction 
> factor to be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a 
> result is obtained??

What Ed Price said. Take a look at
http://www.ets-lindgren.com/manuals/6512.pdf page 31 for the  6512 and 
page 33 for the equation.   Send along a copy of the correction factors 
from your antenna's chart with the difference between the two curves and an 
explanation that the software apparently does not accommodate other
units)


Cortland Richmond

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ralph McDiarmid
It's about as obscure as using "dBuV/m" for field strength

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:37 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Andrew:

I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01 
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.

I did find one site:

http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.pdf

which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength in 
"dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the antenna 
factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.

This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m, to 
electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

-Original Message-
From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Hi All

I need some help in obtaining the correct result.

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors provided 
in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to be 
entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

Regards
Andy


 Andrew Price
 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division
 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)

 Leonardo MW Ltd
 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK
 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308
 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888
 
mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com%3cmailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com>
 leonardocomapany.com
HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS / SPACE

* Please consider the environment before printing this email.




Leonardo MW Ltd
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 
3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and 
may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it 
from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its 
contents to any other person.


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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Cortland Richmond

On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors provided 
in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.


On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:

... customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test 
over the range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors 
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction 
factor to be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a 
result is obtained??


What Ed Price said. Take a look at 
http://www.ets-lindgren.com/manuals/6512.pdf page 31 for the  6512 and 
page 33 for the equation.   Send along a copy of the correction factors 
from your antenna's chart with the difference between the two curves and 
an explanation that the software apparently does not accommodate other 
units)



Cortland Richmond

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 


Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Cortland Richmond

On 2/27/2017 7:15 AM, Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) wrote:

... customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors provided 
in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to be 
entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??


What Ed Price said. Take a look at 
http://www.ets-lindgren.com/manuals/6512.pdf page 30 for the  6512 and 
page 33 for the equation.   Send along a copy of the correction factors 
from your antenna's chart with the difference between the two curves and 
an explanation that the software apparently does not accommodate other 
units)



Cortland Richmond

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Jim Bacher:  
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Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread John Woodgate
Quite likely, but condensing units like that is very confusing. I remember from
a long time  ago, someone complaining about it and citing the reference pressure
sensitivity of a piezo-electric element, which is (volts/m)/(newtons/ square
metre). The American spec writer had condensed that to 'voltmeters/newton'. 
 
We doubt that Newton ever had any voltmeters!
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 1:37 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
 
Andrew:
 
I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.
 
I did find one site:
 
http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.pdf
 
which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength in
"dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the antenna
factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.
 
This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m, to
electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 
-Original Message-
From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]
 
Hi All
 
I need some help in obtaining the correct result.
 
The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors provided
in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to be
entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??
 
Regards
Andy
 
 
 Andrew Price
 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division
 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)
 
 Leonardo MW Ltd
 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK
 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308
 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888
 

andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com
 leonardocomapany.com
HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS / SPACE
 
* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
 
 
 
 
Leonardo MW Ltd
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14
3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and
may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it
from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its
contents to any other person.

 
-

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 emc-p...@ieee.org>
 
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  http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
 
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
 http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
 
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Attachments are not perm

Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Ed Price
Andrew:

 

I thought that S/m was a unit of electrical conductivity, defined as 0.01
mho/cm. This seems like a useless unit for magnetic field strength.

 

I did find one site:

 

http://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/6512-datasheet.p
df

 

which provides a side-by-side chart for "dBS/m" and Electric Field Strength
in "dB/m". At 10 kHz, the antenna factor in db/m is about 86 dB, while the
antenna factor in dBS/m is about 35 dB.

 

This sounds like the old relationship of magnetic field strength, in dBuA/m,
to electric field strength, in dBuV/m, of 51.5 dB.

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-
From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK)
[mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:16 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

 

Hi All

 

I need some help in obtaining the correct result.

 

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.

The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors
provided in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.

So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to
be entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

 Andrew Price

 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division

 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)

 

 Leonardo MW Ltd

 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK

 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308

 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888

 

andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com

 leonardocomapany.com

HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS /
SPACE

 

* Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

 

 

Leonardo MW Ltd

Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex
SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132



This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender.

You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute
its contents to any other person.



 

-



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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
 emc-p...@ieee.org>

 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

 

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at

http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

 

Website:    http://www.ieee-pses.org/

Instructions:   
http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List
rules:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

 

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Re: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread John Woodgate
I think you have to ask EMCO, because that horrible dBS/m ( S = siemens) is
mathematically unsound (don't ask) and  is dB (amps/volts)/m, whereas picotesla
only involves current, distance and the permeability of space, not voltage.

This does assume that everyone is using the correct units and the correct
abbreviations.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

-Original Message-
From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 12:16 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

Hi All

I need some help in obtaining the correct result.

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors provided
in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to be
entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

Regards
Andy


 Andrew Price
 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division
 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)

 Leonardo MW Ltd
 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK
 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308
 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888
 
andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com
 leonardocomapany.com
HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS / SPACE

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Leonardo MW Ltd
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14
3EL
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[PSES] Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

2017-02-27 Thread Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK)
Hi All

I need some help in obtaining the correct result.

The customer has requested an extended magnetic field emission test over the 
range 100kHz to 2MHz with a limit defined in dBpT.
The antenna to be used is an EMCO 6512 which has it correction factors provided 
in dBS/m which the emission software used does not recognise.
So is there a conversion factor that enables the right correction factor to be 
entered or is the conversion factor only used once a result is obtained??

Regards
Andy


 Andrew Price
 Land & Naval Defence Electronics Division
 Prinicpal Environmental Engineer (EMC)

 Leonardo MW Ltd
 Sigma House, Christopher Martin Rd, Basildon SS14 3EL, UK
 Tel  EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308
 Mobile: +44 (0)7507 854888
 
andrew.p.pr...@leonardocompany.com
 leonardocomapany.com
HELICOPTERS / AERONAUTICS / ELECTRONICS, DEFENCE AND SECURITY SYSTEMS / SPACE

* Please consider the environment before printing this email.




Leonardo MW Ltd
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 
3EL
A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

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You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
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