Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for E-cigarettes?

[MIKE SHERMAN]

I have not yet read the UL standard, but I recall from an ISPCE talk a couple 
of years ago that holding a li-ion battery to your lips can present special 
risks when that battery fails in an explosive manner. 

> On 12/10/2020 3:11 PM Ted Eckert 
> <07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> Hello Joe,
> 
>  
> 
> The EU sees electronic cigarettes as a nicotine delivery devices, and 
> thus a medical product. There are limits to the amount of nicotine that can 
> be delivered by the devices. This approach means that the devices on the 
> market in the EU are quite different from what you see in the United States. 
> In the EU, you will find electronic cigarettes most commonly used for a 
> replacement for smoking. The U.S. took a different approach and the market 
> has more vaping devices. It doesn’t take as much energy to deliver the low 
> doses of nicotine allowed in the EU and smaller batteries can be used. It’s 
> more common to find vaping devices in the U.S. with larger batteries.
> 
>  
> 
> Electronic cigarettes | Santé publique (europa.eu) 
> https://ec.europa.eu/health/tobacco/ecigarettes_fr
> 
> Update on European Regulation, Electronic Cigarettes | BSI America 
> (bsigroup.com) 
> https://www.bsigroup.com/en-US/medical-devices/News-center/E-updates/2016-Enews/Update-on-European-Regulation-Electronic-Cigarettes/
> 
>  
> 
> The following podcast has some information on the difference in 
> approaches starting at 28 minutes.
> 
> The Truth About the Vaping Crisis (Ep. 398) - Freakonomics Freakonomics 
> https://freakonomics.com/podcast/vaping-nicotine/
> 
>  
> 
> Ted Eckert
> 
> Microsoft Corporation
> 
>  
> 
> The opinions experessed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those 
> of my employer.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:32 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety 
> standard for E-cigarettes?
> 
>  
> 
> Joe,
> 
>  
> 
>IEC 60335 deals more with electromechanical products.  You 
> need to consider having this looked at as an electronic product. 
> 
>  
> 
> The key IEC standards for electronic products are IEC 61010 and IEC 
> 62368-1. 
> 
>  
> 
>I would recommend that you look at IEC 62368-1 and work to 
> select appropriate requirements from that standard to apply to the 
> E-cigarette unit.  IEC 62368-1 is organized around hazards so it is 
> straightforward to identify the hazards then chase the requirements in the 
> standard.   
> 
>  
> 
>For your case you could use the present UL standard as a 
> starting point to identify issues and then seek an equivalent IEC 
> requirement; a further investigation would have to be done for any additional 
> requirements for completeness. 
> 
>  
> 
>I know that something similar to this has been done for 
> looking at new things like electric scooters to start building a base for a 
> new standard. 
> 
>  
> 
> :>) br,  Pete
> 
>  
> 
> Peter E Perkins, PE
> 
> Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
> 
> PO Box 1067
> 
> Albany, ORe  97321-0413
> 
>  
> 
> 503/452-1201
> 
>  
> 
> IEEE Life Fellow
> 
> IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
> 
> p.perk...@ieee.org mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org
> 
>  
> 
> Entropy ain’t what it used to be
> 
>  
> 
> From: Joe Randolph  mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com >
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:00 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for 
> E-cigarettes?
> 
>  
> 
> Hello All:
> 
>  
> 
> In 2018 here in the USA, UL published a Standard for Safety, UL-8139, 
> “Electrical Systems of Electronic Cigarettes and Vaping Devices.”
> 
>  
> 
> I’ve looked at the IEC web site to see whether a similar international 
> standard has emerged, but so far I have not found one.
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone know whether such a standard is in the developmental stages 
> within the IEC?
> 
>  
> 
> In the meantime, the closest existing IEC standard that might be used for 
> electrical safety of E-cigarettes appears to be IEC 60335 for “Household and 
> Similar Electrical Appliances - Safety.”
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Joe Randolph
> 
> Telecom Design Consultant
> 
> Randolph Telecom, Inc.
> 
> 781-721-2848 (USA)
> 
> j...@randolph-telecom.com mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com
> 
> http://www.randolph-telecom.com 
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.randolph-telecom.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40mic

Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for E-cigarettes?

[Ted Eckert]

Hello Joe,

The EU sees electronic cigarettes as a nicotine delivery devices, and thus a 
medical product. There are limits to the amount of nicotine that can be 
delivered by the devices. This approach means that the devices on the market in 
the EU are quite different from what you see in the United States. In the EU, 
you will find electronic cigarettes most commonly used for a replacement for 
smoking. The U.S. took a different approach and the market has more vaping 
devices. It doesn't take as much energy to deliver the low doses of nicotine 
allowed in the EU and smaller batteries can be used. It's more common to find 
vaping devices in the U.S. with larger batteries.

Electronic cigarettes | Santé publique 
(europa.eu)
Update on European Regulation, Electronic Cigarettes | BSI America 
(bsigroup.com)

The following podcast has some information on the difference in approaches 
starting at 28 minutes.
The Truth About the Vaping Crisis (Ep. 398) - Freakonomics 
Freakonomics

Ted Eckert
Microsoft Corporation

The opinions experessed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.


From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard 
for E-cigarettes?

Joe,

   IEC 60335 deals more with electromechanical products.  You need 
to consider having this looked at as an electronic product.

The key IEC standards for electronic products are IEC 61010 and IEC 62368-1.

   I would recommend that you look at IEC 62368-1 and work to 
select appropriate requirements from that standard to apply to the E-cigarette 
unit.  IEC 62368-1 is organized around hazards so it is straightforward to 
identify the hazards then chase the requirements in the standard.

   For your case you could use the present UL standard as a 
starting point to identify issues and then seek an equivalent IEC requirement; 
a further investigation would have to be done for any additional requirements 
for completeness.

   I know that something similar to this has been done for looking 
at new things like electric scooters to start building a base for a new 
standard.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 1067
Albany, ORe  97321-0413

503/452-1201

IEEE Life Fellow
IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
p.perk...@ieee.org

Entropy ain't what it used to be

From: Joe Randolph mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com>>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for 
E-cigarettes?

Hello All:

In 2018 here in the USA, UL published a Standard for Safety, UL-8139, 
"Electrical Systems of Electronic Cigarettes and Vaping Devices."

I've looked at the IEC web site to see whether a similar international standard 
has emerged, but so far I have not found one.

Does anyone know whether such a standard is in the developmental stages within 
the IEC?

In the meantime, the closest existing IEC standard that might be used for 
electrical safety of E-cigarettes appears to be IEC 60335 for "Household and 
Similar Electrical Appliances - Safety."


Thanks,

Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

-


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Re: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for E-cigarettes?

[Pete Perkins]

Joe,

 

   IEC 60335 deals more with electromechanical products.  You
need to consider having this looked at as an electronic product.  

 

The key IEC standards for electronic products are IEC 61010 and IEC 62368-1.


 

   I would recommend that you look at IEC 62368-1 and work to
select appropriate requirements from that standard to apply to the
E-cigarette unit.  IEC 62368-1 is organized around hazards so it is
straightforward to identify the hazards then chase the requirements in the
standard.   

 

   For your case you could use the present UL standard as a
starting point to identify issues and then seek an equivalent IEC
requirement; a further investigation would have to be done for any
additional requirements for completeness.  

 

   I know that something similar to this has been done for
looking at new things like electric scooters to start building a base for a
new standard.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

Entropy ain't what it used to be

 

From: Joe Randolph  
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for
E-cigarettes?

 

Hello All:

 

In 2018 here in the USA, UL published a Standard for Safety, UL-8139,
"Electrical Systems of Electronic Cigarettes and Vaping Devices."

 

I've looked at the IEC web site to see whether a similar international
standard has emerged, but so far I have not found one.

 

Does anyone know whether such a standard is in the developmental stages
within the IEC?

 

In the meantime, the closest existing IEC standard that might be used for
electrical safety of E-cigarettes appears to be IEC 60335 for "Household and
Similar Electrical Appliances - Safety."

 

 

Thanks,

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

j...@randolph-telecom.com  

http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

-


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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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[PSES] Will there be an IEC electrical safety standard for E-cigarettes?

[Joe Randolph]

Hello All:

 

In 2018 here in the USA, UL published a Standard for Safety, UL-8139,
"Electrical Systems of Electronic Cigarettes and Vaping Devices."

 

I've looked at the IEC web site to see whether a similar international
standard has emerged, but so far I have not found one.

 

Does anyone know whether such a standard is in the developmental stages
within the IEC?

 

In the meantime, the closest existing IEC standard that might be used for
electrical safety of E-cigarettes appears to be IEC 60335 for "Household and
Similar Electrical Appliances - Safety."

 

 

Thanks,

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

j...@randolph-telecom.com  

http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna

[Sykes, Bob]

I have a 3101 I purchased in the early '80s.  There are no visible fasteners 
holding the back on.  Can send pictures If needed.

-Bob Sykes

From: Ken Javor 
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:40 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna


CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.


My employer back in the 70's and '80s had all three: EMCO 3101 uhf, EMCO 3102, 
uwave and the EMCO 3103 big uhf, but I honestly don't recall the details of the 
3103 construction down to the appropriate level of detail...

The back does set flush with the base of the cone.  The question is what holds 
it there...

Also the base is phenolic and the cone is fiberglass.  Any adhesive experts out 
there with a recommendation for the proper glue?

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


From: Ken Wyatt 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 16:22:30 -0700
To: Ken Javor 
Cc: "EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org" 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna

Hi Ken,

We used one of these (I believe from EMCO) back when I started with HP in the 
late 1980s. It sure seemed to me it was just glued, as I don't recall any 
fasteners. The joint seemed to be flush with the cone. It's long gone, so no 
pictures.

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site 
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>
On Dec 9, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Ken Javor  wrote:

Need help repairing log-spiral antenna
List Members with an EMI test facility,

Recently purchased subject antenna, which is damaged.

See attached image.  Tensor made the EMCO log-spirals before EMCO acquired 
them, way back. I had an opportunity to buy the antenna in the image, and it is 
the same as an EMCO 3103.  Unfortunately, they packed it up like it was 
indestructible, and it wasn't - the box was intact, but the antenna within had 
come apart as can be seen.  The back plate was originally glued in, but there 
are also holes for fasteners, visible in the image.  None of the fasteners were 
in the antenna or even in the box. It could be that the fasteners were only 
there during assembly to hold the back plate in place long enough for the glue 
to set.   I got with ETS/Lindgren to see assembly drawings for their 
log-spirals, but that hasn't been fruitful. I am reaching out to the list 
membership for a description of how the EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3101 or better yet 
EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3103 is put together. The main question is whether or not 
there are any fasteners, and if so, metal or nylon, or?

Also any evidence of glue, or how the back plate stays in place.

I have two uhf log-spirals like the EMCO 3101, but one is from Electro-Metrics, 
and the other Stoddart/Singer, and neither show any evidence of what holds them 
together, plus it wouldn't necessarily apply, anyway.

If there are fasteners, a close-up image would be really helpful for me to 
figure out what I need to get.

Thank you,

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/