Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Peter Tarver]

This reaches back twenty years and things change whether you're looking or not, 
but:

DBP Telekom FTZ 19 Pfl 1 "Voltage Limits for 60 V Consumers in 
Telecommunication Installations of the Federal German Post Office" (no date):

Normal range:   -57.4 V to -67.7 V
Short duration: -50.0 V to -75.0 V

Austrian Telecommunications Authority Dbh VI 0128 "Requirements for Power 
Systems using Cell Switching for 48/60 V Telecommunication Installations" 
(1981):
60 V Normal range: 57.5 V to 63.0 V for 
switching installations
  51.0 V to 
65.0 V for microwave systems
   48 V Normal range: 44.0 V to 49.5 V


My recollection is that this existed mostly in the region along both sides of 
the border of Germany and Austria, rather than Germany as a whole.


Peter Tarver

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 21:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Thank you Joe Randolph and Bostjan for your information.

I'm surprised many have not answered. Or maybe that's all the info available.

Once again thanks to everyone in the group.

Best regards,
Kannan

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 9:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Germany has historically been 60V, and I believe they still are.

Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com<mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com>
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Hello Kannan,

As far as I know it was used in Russia, however they switch now to 48VDC. In 
deed there are many different systems and somewhere they might still use 60VDC. 
Maybe also in some other ex-Soviet Union countries.


Best regards,
Bostjan

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Dear valued members,

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom installations?

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance.

Best regards,
Kannan
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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-
-

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Joe Randolph]

Hi Kannan:

 

I agree that staying under 60 VDC keeps things simpler, with less explaining
for you to do when you discuss your design with the safety lab.

 

However, if your cable circuits could be classified as TNV circuits, there
is some room to use 60 VDC.  As I recall, IEC 69050 allows up to 120 VDC for
TNV circuits, so there is no problem there.  The difficulty comes with North
America, where UL/CSA 60950 has a national deviation that sets the upper DC
limit of TNV at 60 VDC.  

 

Even so, I believe that some years back, the accepted definition of the
"working voltage" of a 60 VDC PSTN system was 60V, and the possibility that
the voltage could float to 72 VDC under certain conditions was not
interpreted as a disqualifier for classification as TNV even under the North
American definition.

 

If the cables in question will be routed outside for long distances, they
probably have to be classified as TNV-1 anyway.  If they are only routed
within the building, you have the option to classify them as SELV.  For a
SELV classification, it would be best to stay under 60 VDC maximum.

 

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> j...@randolph-telecom.com

 <http://www.randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 1:46 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Thank you Joe Randolph for more info and extending your support. 

 

The question was for drafting new product design specification both from PS
design as well as safety perspective. 

 

I see that 60VDC system would require more attention towards,
creepage/clearance, accessibility and dielectric strength requirement
perspective. This is critical because the working voltage can go up to 72V
which is over SELV limit. There are no PSTN terminals in the system. It is
just for system working from 48V and/or 60V DC supply. 

 

Thanks and regards,

Kannan

 

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 11:00 AM
To: Kannan Dhamodaran; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: RE: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Hi Kannan:

 

When I first replied to your question I was away from my office and simply
named the primary country (Germany) that I clearly remembered as using 60
VDC.  Now that I'm back in the office, I pulled out my copy of the 1997
edition of ETSI document ETS 300 001 for the EEC and EFTA member countries
in Europe.  Chapter 1 of that document contains an attempt to describe the
characteristics of the PSTNs that were in use by the member countries at
that time.  Following is what that summary says for the 23 countries
studied:

 

 

COUNTRIES THAT USED 60 VDC EXCLUSIVELY:

 

Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Luxembourg

 

 

COUNTRIES THAT USED 60 VDC IN SOME, BUT NOT ALL AREAS:

 

Norway, Poland, Sweden

 

 

I think there may be other countries outside of Europe that used 60 VDC at
some point, but it would take some more digging in my files to locate that
info.  

 

By the way, if your question is related to safety compliance, I don't think
there is any practical difference between 48 VDC and 60 VDC.  If your
question is related to functional compatibility, I don't think there is much
difference there either.  While some countries use 60 VDC instead of 48 VDC,
the ones that use 60 VDC typically limit their short-circuit current to
levels that are no higher than what some 48 VDC systems can deliver.  Most
telephones and other PSTN terminal devices are more sensitive to the
available current than the open-circuit voltage.

 

If you still have questions on this topic, I would be happy to try and
answer them.

 

 

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> j...@randolph-telecom.com

 <http://www.randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Thank you Joe Randolph and Bostjan for your information. 

 

I'm surprised many have not answered. Or maybe that's all the info
available. 

 

Once again thanks to everyone in the group.

 

Best regards,

Kannan

 

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 9:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Germany has historically been 60V, and I believe they still are.  

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Kannan Dhamodaran]

Thank you Joe Randolph for more info and extending your support.

The question was for drafting new product design specification both from PS 
design as well as safety perspective.

I see that 60VDC system would require more attention towards, 
creepage/clearance, accessibility and dielectric strength requirement 
perspective. This is critical because the working voltage can go up to 72V 
which is over SELV limit. There are no PSTN terminals in the system. It is just 
for system working from 48V and/or 60V DC supply.

Thanks and regards,
Kannan

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 11:00 AM
To: Kannan Dhamodaran; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Hi Kannan:

When I first replied to your question I was away from my office and simply 
named the primary country (Germany) that I clearly remembered as using 60 VDC.  
Now that I'm back in the office, I pulled out my copy of the 1997 edition of 
ETSI document ETS 300 001 for the EEC and EFTA member countries in Europe.  
Chapter 1 of that document contains an attempt to describe the characteristics 
of the PSTNs that were in use by the member countries at that time.  Following 
is what that summary says for the 23 countries studied:


COUNTRIES THAT USED 60 VDC EXCLUSIVELY:

Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Luxembourg


COUNTRIES THAT USED 60 VDC IN SOME, BUT NOT ALL AREAS:

Norway, Poland, Sweden


I think there may be other countries outside of Europe that used 60 VDC at some 
point, but it would take some more digging in my files to locate that info.

By the way, if your question is related to safety compliance, I don't think 
there is any practical difference between 48 VDC and 60 VDC.  If your question 
is related to functional compatibility, I don't think there is much difference 
there either.  While some countries use 60 VDC instead of 48 VDC, the ones that 
use 60 VDC typically limit their short-circuit current to levels that are no 
higher than what some 48 VDC systems can deliver.  Most telephones and other 
PSTN terminal devices are more sensitive to the available current than the 
open-circuit voltage.

If you still have questions on this topic, I would be happy to try and answer 
them.



Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com<mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com>
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Thank you Joe Randolph and Bostjan for your information.

I'm surprised many have not answered. Or maybe that's all the info available.

Once again thanks to everyone in the group.

Best regards,
Kannan

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 9:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Germany has historically been 60V, and I believe they still are.

Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com<mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com>
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Hello Kannan,

As far as I know it was used in Russia, however they switch now to 48VDC. In 
deed there are many different systems and somewhere they might still use 60VDC. 
Maybe also in some other ex-Soviet Union countries.


Best regards,
Bostjan

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Dear valued members,

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom installations?

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance.

Best regards,
Kannan
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Joe Randolph]

Hi Kannan:

 

When I first replied to your question I was away from my office and simply
named the primary country (Germany) that I clearly remembered as using 60
VDC.  Now that I'm back in the office, I pulled out my copy of the 1997
edition of ETSI document ETS 300 001 for the EEC and EFTA member countries
in Europe.  Chapter 1 of that document contains an attempt to describe the
characteristics of the PSTNs that were in use by the member countries at
that time.  Following is what that summary says for the 23 countries
studied:

 

 

COUNTRIES THAT USED 60 VDC EXCLUSIVELY:

 

Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Luxembourg

 

 

COUNTRIES THAT USED 60 VDC IN SOME, BUT NOT ALL AREAS:

 

Norway, Poland, Sweden

 

 

I think there may be other countries outside of Europe that used 60 VDC at
some point, but it would take some more digging in my files to locate that
info.  

 

By the way, if your question is related to safety compliance, I don't think
there is any practical difference between 48 VDC and 60 VDC.  If your
question is related to functional compatibility, I don't think there is much
difference there either.  While some countries use 60 VDC instead of 48 VDC,
the ones that use 60 VDC typically limit their short-circuit current to
levels that are no higher than what some 48 VDC systems can deliver.  Most
telephones and other PSTN terminal devices are more sensitive to the
available current than the open-circuit voltage.

 

If you still have questions on this topic, I would be happy to try and
answer them.

 

 

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> j...@randolph-telecom.com

 <http://www.randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Thank you Joe Randolph and Bostjan for your information. 

 

I'm surprised many have not answered. Or maybe that's all the info
available. 

 

Once again thanks to everyone in the group.

 

Best regards,

Kannan

 

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 9:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Germany has historically been 60V, and I believe they still are.  

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> j...@randolph-telecom.com

 <http://www.randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si] 
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Hello Kannan,

 

As far as I know it was used in Russia, however they switch now to 48VDC. In
deed there are many different systems and somewhere they might still use
60VDC. Maybe also in some other ex-Soviet Union countries.

 

 

Best regards,

Bostjan

 

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Dear valued members,

 

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom
installations? 

 

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance. 

 

Best regards,

Kannan

-


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p.

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Kannan Dhamodaran]

Thank you Joe Randolph and Bostjan for your information.

I'm surprised many have not answered. Or maybe that's all the info available.

Once again thanks to everyone in the group.

Best regards,
Kannan

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 9:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Germany has historically been 60V, and I believe they still are.

Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com<mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com>
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Hello Kannan,

As far as I know it was used in Russia, however they switch now to 48VDC. In 
deed there are many different systems and somewhere they might still use 60VDC. 
Maybe also in some other ex-Soviet Union countries.


Best regards,
Bostjan

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Dear valued members,

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom installations?

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance.

Best regards,
Kannan
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-ps

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Joe Randolph]

Germany has historically been 60V, and I believe they still are.  

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> j...@randolph-telecom.com

 <http://www.randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si] 
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Hello Kannan,

 

As far as I know it was used in Russia, however they switch now to 48VDC. In
deed there are many different systems and somewhere they might still use
60VDC. Maybe also in some other ex-Soviet Union countries.

 

 

Best regards,

Bostjan

 

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

 

Dear valued members,

 

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom
installations? 

 

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance. 

 

Best regards,

Kannan

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Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Boštjan Glavič]

Hello Kannan,

As far as I know it was used in Russia, however they switch now to 48VDC. In 
deed there are many different systems and somewhere they might still use 60VDC. 
Maybe also in some other ex-Soviet Union countries.


Best regards,
Bostjan

From: Kannan Dhamodaran [mailto:kan...@india.tejasnetworks.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 5:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

Dear valued members,

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom installations?

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance.

Best regards,
Kannan
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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[PSES] -60Vdc Telecom supply voltage

[Kannan Dhamodaran]

Dear valued members,

can you guide me on nations that uses -60Vdc supply for telecom installations?

Appreciate your valued inputs in advance.

Best regards,
Kannan

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: