Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire - impedance of stranded wire
On a related topic. I am hoping somebody can easily double check a calculation I made for the ground wire, and it only has to be a rough measurement. It would appear the wire the designers are using is going to be too smalI for a ground bond wire. I have a 6.5 meter 26 AWG stranded wire and I'm trying to determine its inductance at 100 MHz. Assuming an inductance of 15hH/in (9.8 ohm/in) and I get roughly 2K ohm at 100 MHz along the cable. Can somebody, kindly verify that number. The 15 hH/in. is an old ballpark reference number I picked up years ago in Clayton Paul's Introduction to Electromagnetic Compatibility but I don't have access to it at the moment. I'm not worrying about the affect of the other conductors for the moment. If you have nebulous spare time and could give me a double check on the value I would appreciate it. Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire In message 3FE6A3972FF74EFB8A9B276E7DF1A3F8@RichardHPdv6, dated Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org writes: The USA agrees with the UK. How unexciting.(;-) No international incident to enliven the day. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire - impedance of stranded wire
This response is to Mr. McInturff directly below. Did not receive original post that started thread. The usual number is 10 nH per cm, or 1 uH/m, but that is a quibble. Such numbers are of use only when the wire is electrically short. At 100 MHz, the wire would have to be no more than one foot long to use 10 nH/cm, or the number you chose. When the wire is electrically long, it is a transmission line or antenna, and the shunt capacitance must be taken into account. In practice that means the impedance is bounded by about 400 Ohms regardless of length, and since the transmission line is mismatched, it could be anywhere from a near dead short to that value, depending upon precise length and frequency of interest. Also, keep in mind that whatever value you choose for that per unit length inductance is based on proximity (or the lack thereof) to ground. Inductance is not an inherent property of a single conductor, but of a loop. The best one can do with a single conductor is calculate its partial inductance relative to that of the entire loop. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:57:58 + To: 'John Woodgate' j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Conversation: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire - impedance of stranded wire Subject: RE: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire - impedance of stranded wire On a related topic. I am hoping somebody can easily double check a calculation I made for the ground wire, and it only has to be a rough measurement. It would appear the wire the designers are using is going to be too smalI for a ground bond wire. I have a 6.5 meter 26 AWG stranded wire and I'm trying to determine its inductance at 100 MHz. Assuming an inductance of 15hH/in (9.8 ohm/in) and I get roughly 2K ohm at 100 MHz along the cable. Can somebody, kindly verify that number. The 15 hH/in. is an old ballpark reference number I picked up years ago in Clayton Paul's Introduction to Electromagnetic Compatibility but I don't have access to it at the moment. I'm not worrying about the affect of the other conductors for the moment. If you have nebulous spare time and could give me a double check on the value I would appreciate it. Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire In message 3FE6A3972FF74EFB8A9B276E7DF1A3F8@RichardHPdv6, dated Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org writes: The USA agrees with the UK. How unexciting.(;-) No international incident to enliven the day. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted
Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire - impedance of stranded wire
Hey Gary - Based on the values presented, I ran the calculation and got very similar results. I'd say that the number you have is OK. Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 9:58 AM To: 'John Woodgate'; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire - impedance of stranded wire On a related topic. I am hoping somebody can easily double check a calculation I made for the ground wire, and it only has to be a rough measurement. It would appear the wire the designers are using is going to be too smalI for a ground bond wire. I have a 6.5 meter 26 AWG stranded wire and I'm trying to determine its inductance at 100 MHz. Assuming an inductance of 15hH/in (9.8 ohm/in) and I get roughly 2K ohm at 100 MHz along the cable. Can somebody, kindly verify that number. The 15 hH/in. is an old ballpark reference number I picked up years ago in Clayton Paul's Introduction to Electromagnetic Compatibility but I don't have access to it at the moment. I'm not worrying about the affect of the other conductors for the moment. If you have nebulous spare time and could give me a double check on the value I would appreciate it. Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire In message 3FE6A3972FF74EFB8A9B276E7DF1A3F8@RichardHPdv6, dated Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org writes: The USA agrees with the UK. How unexciting.(;-) No international incident to enliven the day. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Green multi conductor wire
Hi all I have a medico HF surgical handset where the designer has chosen green as a main color for parts of the product. Also the 3 wire cable to the handset has a green outer insulation over the 3 wires. Internal in the cable the 3 wires are blue, red and white. The product is for single use and cant be re-wired. Green is normally used for earth connection in US and Canada. But can we use green on a mulit-wire cable. National deviations to IEC 60601-1 claims; A PROTECTIVE EARTH CONDUCTOR or a PROTECTIVE EARTH CONNECTION or insulation shall be identified by either green or green and yellow colour. Colours of neutral and POWER SUPPLY CORD conductors shall be in accordance with the Canadian Electrical Code (CEC), Part I, CSA C22.2 No. 21, and CSA C22.2 No. 49. Can we use green on a mulit-wire cable? Best regards, Mr. Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Aps Ved Gadekæret 11F DK-3660 Stenløse Phone: +45 48 18 35 66 k...@bolls.dk www.bolls.dk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire
In message 009401cca9cf$b3f87230$1be95690$@dk, dated Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Kim Boll Jensen k...@bolls.dk writes: Can we use green on a mulit-wire cable? Yes, for the *sheath* (outer layer of insulation). -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire
The USA agrees with the UK. Best regards, Richard Nute Vancouver, Washington, U.S.A. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 3:45 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Green multi conductor wire In message 009401cca9cf$b3f87230$1be95690$@dk, dated Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Kim Boll Jensen k...@bolls.dk writes: Can we use green on a mulit-wire cable? Yes, for the *sheath* (outer layer of insulation). -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Green multi conductor wire
In message 3FE6A3972FF74EFB8A9B276E7DF1A3F8@RichardHPdv6, dated Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org writes: The USA agrees with the UK. How unexciting.(;-) No international incident to enliven the day. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
