RE: Add-On Printed Circuit
Warren, John stated that Products A and B are sold independent of each other. Only product A has Listing Marks and is the one that gets inspected by the Follow-Up inspector. Follow-up inspector never sees Product B unless he's very smart and gathers from the Product A's manual that it is an optional board. Remember that follow-up inspectors are taught to inspect only products that have the NRTL mark. However, the problem is in the field. Someone who opens up Product A in the field and adds a non-Listed accessory board has violated the Listing Mark on that product. Product A's Listing is not valid unless the NRTL has evaluated the combination of Product A and Product B together and has covered both under their Listing program. Some examples of products that are accessory Listed are: optional cards that can be fitted on the equipment; optional fan tray, optional mouse, etc. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: Warren Birmingham [mailto:war...@comfortjets.com] Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 10:21 PM To: John Juhasz Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Add-On Printed Circuit You don't say to which standard UL has investigated the Product A device or whether is is a listed product or a Recognized Component. The listed product A must conform to the was it was built by the manufacturer. Changes/options to it must be shown in the Followup Services Books, otherwise the product is not covered and UL may force the shipments to be held for conformance or the listing mark removed. RCs are evaluated for use in the end product according to UL's conditions. Warren Birmingham Epsilon-Mu Consultants On Monday, Sep 16, 2002, at 08:25 US/Pacific, John Juhasz wrote: Colleagues, I am seeking your input. Manufacturer A sells a complete, fully approved (CE, FCC Part 15, UL, etc) product (product A) Manufacturer B makes a device (product B) that will plug into a connector in product A (actually inside product A's enclosure - like a 'daughter' module) as a value added feature. There are no external interfaces on product B, and it is not accessible unless product A is totally dismantled. Product B is intended/sold only for use with product A, and is otherwise useless. The two products are sold independent of each other by the manufacturers to 'dealer/installers'. When the dealer/installer sells/installs product A, he can offer product B as an option. What are the regulatory requirements/manufacturer's responsibilities for product B? (est. 2-3 inches square, UL 94V-0 printed circuit board, tens of mA 12V DC, no external interfaces. On-board clock). Thoughts? John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions
RE: Add-On Printed Circuit
John, Since product B is an accessory for use with UL Listed Product A, then I would submit product B to UL for accessory Listing for use with Product A. This is a very wise thing to do, especially if there were any questions by local inspectors or by the judge in case of a product liabilility lawsuit. Accessory Listing product B should be no problem at all. UL might ask you to throw in an instruction leaflet on how to install accessory B properly and that this must be done by qualified personnel. In regards to the UL Listing Mark, it is the same as the one you have on the product A except for the element ACCESSORY LISTED instead of LISTED adjacent to the UL logo. Being a small unit, UL also allows you to put all the required markings and UL logo on the packaging rather than on the product. Regards, This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:john.juh...@ge-interlogix.com] Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 5:25 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: Add-On Printed Circuit Colleagues, I am seeking your input. Manufacturer A sells a complete, fully approved (CE, FCC Part 15, UL, etc) product (product A) Manufacturer B makes a device (product B) that will plug into a connector in product A (actually inside product A's enclosure - like a 'daughter' module) as a value added feature. There are no external interfaces on product B, and it is not accessible unless product A is totally dismantled. Product B is intended/sold only for use with product A, and is otherwise useless. The two products are sold independent of each other by the manufacturers to 'dealer/installers'. When the dealer/installer sells/installs product A, he can offer product B as an option. What are the regulatory requirements/manufacturer's responsibilities for product B? (est. 2-3 inches square, UL 94V-0 printed circuit board, tens of mA 12V DC, no external interfaces. On-board clock). Thoughts? John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Add-On Printed Circuit
You don't say to which standard UL has investigated the Product A device or whether is is a listed product or a Recognized Component. The listed product A must conform to the was it was built by the manufacturer. Changes/options to it must be shown in the Followup Services Books, otherwise the product is not covered and UL may force the shipments to be held for conformance or the listing mark removed. RCs are evaluated for use in the end product according to UL's conditions. Warren Birmingham Epsilon-Mu Consultants On Monday, Sep 16, 2002, at 08:25 US/Pacific, John Juhasz wrote: Colleagues, I am seeking your input. Manufacturer A sells a complete, fully approved (CE, FCC Part 15, UL, etc) product (product A) Manufacturer B makes a device (product B) that will plug into a connector in product A (actually inside product A's enclosure - like a 'daughter' module) as a value added feature. There are no external interfaces on product B, and it is not accessible unless product A is totally dismantled. Product B is intended/sold only for use with product A, and is otherwise useless. The two products are sold independent of each other by the manufacturers to 'dealer/installers'. When the dealer/installer sells/installs product A, he can offer product B as an option. What are the regulatory requirements/manufacturer's responsibilities for product B? (est. 2-3 inches square, UL 94V-0 printed circuit board, tens of mA 12V DC, no external interfaces. On-board clock). Thoughts? John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Add-On Printed Circuit
I read in !emc-pstc that John Juhasz john.juh...@ge-interlogix.com wrote (in 2a1845f4cde8d511b4400090279c703bfb6...@bctexc10.ilx.indsys.ge .com) about 'Add-On Printed Circuit' on Mon, 16 Sep 2002: What are the regulatory requirements/manufacturer's responsibilities for product B? (est. 2-3 inches square, UL 94V-0 printed circuit board, tens of mA 12V DC, no external interfaces. On-board clock). For Europe, the complete product, A+B, must meet the applicable safety and EMC requirements. Since B is not exposed for retail sale, it does not have to be CE marked, but it is not illegal to do so. The Declaration of Conformity for B must (if you want a quite life!) explain what you explained, about it being embodied in A and ONLY in A. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Add-On Printed Circuit
Colleagues, I am seeking your input. Manufacturer A sells a complete, fully approved (CE, FCC Part 15, UL, etc) product (product A) Manufacturer B makes a device (product B) that will plug into a connector in product A (actually inside product A's enclosure - like a 'daughter' module) as a value added feature. There are no external interfaces on product B, and it is not accessible unless product A is totally dismantled. Product B is intended/sold only for use with product A, and is otherwise useless. The two products are sold independent of each other by the manufacturers to 'dealer/installers'. When the dealer/installer sells/installs product A, he can offer product B as an option. What are the regulatory requirements/manufacturer's responsibilities for product B? (est. 2-3 inches square, UL 94V-0 printed circuit board, tens of mA 12V DC, no external interfaces. On-board clock). Thoughts? John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
