RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-17 Thread Lay Siang Saw 


Hi Rich ,
   I am new to Product safety but i'd like to share what i know on the
hipot and grounding/bonding test requirement.
   Basically these two test are basic test required for product safety
testing.
   However it also depend on whether the equipment is class I or II for
electronic and electrical equip.

   For class I, the equipment is equiped with a protective earth such that
all accessible metal parts cannot become live in the event of a failure of
basic insulation.For this class I equipment, the testing required is
Grounding test and hipot test.

For class II,there is no protective earth and protection against electrical
shock is provided by double insulation.
For this class II equip, only hipot testing is required as metal casing /
protective earth is not present.

Hope this helps .
regards,alice saw





kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 02/15/2003 01:25:21 AM

Please respond to kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com

Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org


To:sda...@ptitest.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
cc:

Subject:    RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



Going back a ways, UL 1459, ed. 3  Sections 72 and 73 along with Appendix C
provide quite a lot of details regarding production line tests for telecom
equipment.  I have not been able to find a reference within UL 1459 which
might indicate a deeper source of the  requirements as reflected in 1459.

My opinion and not that of my employer.

Regards,
Kaz Gawrzyjal
kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com


From: Sam Davis [mailto:sda...@ptitest.com]
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 10:03 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



In searching UL 60950, don't look for production line tests, look for
"Routine Testing".  Even then, the only routine testing I found in my very
limited search was for routine hipot testing.

Sam


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Jayasinghe, Ryan
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:26 PM
To: 'Rich Nute'; pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



Hello Rich,

Good question.

I tried tracking this down myself as I had to show my people where the Hi
Pot and Bonding tests were required.

You can't get from UL1950 to the production line tests. I know it's called
out on the Factory Audit Manuals... but where does the requirement come
from?

What I got a hold of was a UL procedure for their Follow up Services
personnel.

But I hope you can use this document to further track down the source of
the
requirement.

Try doing a search in Google for "File E211188 Vol. 1"

This is where I saw it.


File E211188 Vol. 1 Issued: ( )
A P P E N D I X
STANDARDIZED APPENDIX PAGES FOR:
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (NWGQ, NWGQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (QQGQ, QQGQ7), TELEPHONE APPLIANCES
AND EQUIPMENT (WYQQ, WYQQ7), POWER SUPPLIES FOR TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND
EQUIPMENT (QQJE, QQJE7) These appendix pages shall also be used for
Components Recognized under the categories noted below when one or more
descriptive Sections of the Follow-Up Service Procedure require that the
manufacturer conduct the factory production-line tests described in
Appendix
D:
(NWGQ2/QQGQ2/WYQQ2/QQJE2)
(NWGQ8/QQGQ8/WYQQ8/QQJE8)

Ryan Jazz Jayasinghe  Canoga Perkins (www.canoga.com
<http://www.canoga.com> )
Compliance Engineer 20600 Prairie Street
Direct: (818) 678-3898 or x1198 Chatsworth, CA  91311-6008
Main:(818) 718-6300
e-mail: r...@canoga.com <mailto:r...@canoga.com>
FAX:(818) 678-3798



From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:52 PM
To:   pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other





Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment?  Some UL
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies production-line
tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




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RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-15 Thread FastWave 
I have a draft European standard titled “Information Technology Equipment
– Routine electrical safety testing in production” = prEN50116 dated
August 1995. I have not checked whether this document ever made it past this
“pr” status. I am also unaware if there is an IEC version. This draft
standard is specifically for ITE, references EN60950, and specifies Electric
Strength and 25A Ground Continuity Tests on 100% of production. It also
references and says it must be used in conjunction with “Operational
Document CCA-201 Factory inspection procedures – CCA Harmonised
requirements”. Not sure what that is.
 
Production line tests and anything to do with follow-up service inspections
were removed from UL standards several years back – I believe it related to
the creation of the OSHA NRTL program - considers subsequent
testing/inspection part of the “certification process” rather than part of
a product compliance standard. Since that time, all production tests have been
relegated to each Certification agency’s individual requirements.
 
Bill Bisenius
ED&D
bi...@productsafet.com
www.productsafeT.com  
 
 

From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:20 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other
 
Dear All,
Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment? Some UL and CSA
standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but what I am
looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.
Thank you.
 
 
  _  

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!  
Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-14 Thread Gregg Kervill 

I'm sorry but I seem to have missed the purpose of this question.
Is it to find the source document for the simple and purist reason of
Knowledge?
 I most sincerely hope that you are forced into justify these essential
tests.

Gregg

Having lost sight of our objectives we redoubled our efforts.



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RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-14 Thread Sylvia Toma 
The production line requirements are a UL certification requirement.  The
requirements were contained in the UL 1950 (UL 60950) Standardized Appendix
Pages in your Follow-Up Service Procedure.  Production line test requirements
are not standardized worldwide.  Most agencies have their own certification
requirements, although European agencies typically use EN 50116, ITE Routine
electrical safety testing in production.  This document also permits
sub-assembly and component testing, but does not mandate it.  
 
Sylvia


From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:20 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



Dear All,

Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment? Some UL and CSA
standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but what I am
looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

Thank you.

 




  _  

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!  
Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-14 Thread kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com 

Going back a ways, UL 1459, ed. 3  Sections 72 and 73 along with Appendix C
provide quite a lot of details regarding production line tests for telecom
equipment.  I have not been able to find a reference within UL 1459 which
might indicate a deeper source of the  requirements as reflected in 1459.

My opinion and not that of my employer.

Regards,
Kaz Gawrzyjal
kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com


From: Sam Davis [mailto:sda...@ptitest.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 10:03 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



In searching UL 60950, don't look for production line tests, look for
"Routine Testing".  Even then, the only routine testing I found in my very
limited search was for routine hipot testing.

Sam


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Jayasinghe, Ryan
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:26 PM
To: 'Rich Nute'; pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



Hello Rich,

Good question.

I tried tracking this down myself as I had to show my people where the Hi
Pot and Bonding tests were required.

You can't get from UL1950 to the production line tests. I know it's called
out on the Factory Audit Manuals... but where does the requirement come
from?

What I got a hold of was a UL procedure for their Follow up Services
personnel.

But I hope you can use this document to further track down the source of the
requirement.

Try doing a search in Google for "File E211188 Vol. 1"

This is where I saw it.


File E211188 Vol. 1 Issued: ( )
A P P E N D I X
STANDARDIZED APPENDIX PAGES FOR:
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (NWGQ, NWGQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (QQGQ, QQGQ7), TELEPHONE APPLIANCES
AND EQUIPMENT (WYQQ, WYQQ7), POWER SUPPLIES FOR TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND
EQUIPMENT (QQJE, QQJE7) These appendix pages shall also be used for
Components Recognized under the categories noted below when one or more
descriptive Sections of the Follow-Up Service Procedure require that the
manufacturer conduct the factory production-line tests described in Appendix
D:
(NWGQ2/QQGQ2/WYQQ2/QQJE2)
(NWGQ8/QQGQ8/WYQQ8/QQJE8)

Ryan Jazz JayasingheCanoga Perkins (www.canoga.com
<http://www.canoga.com> )
Compliance Engineer 20600 Prairie Street
Direct: (818) 678-3898 or x1198 Chatsworth, CA  91311-6008
Main:(818) 718-6300
e-mail: r...@canoga.com <mailto:r...@canoga.com>
FAX:(818) 678-3798



From:   Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com]
Sent:   Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:52 PM
To: pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc:     emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:    Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other





Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test 
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment?  Some UL 
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but 
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies production-line tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee
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htt

RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-14 Thread Sam Davis 

In searching UL 60950, don't look for production line tests, look for
"Routine Testing".  Even then, the only routine testing I found in my very
limited search was for routine hipot testing.

Sam


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Jayasinghe, Ryan
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:26 PM
To: 'Rich Nute'; pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other



Hello Rich,

Good question.

I tried tracking this down myself as I had to show my people where the Hi
Pot and Bonding tests were required.

You can't get from UL1950 to the production line tests. I know it's called
out on the Factory Audit Manuals... but where does the requirement come
from?

What I got a hold of was a UL procedure for their Follow up Services
personnel.

But I hope you can use this document to further track down the source of the
requirement.

Try doing a search in Google for "File E211188 Vol. 1"

This is where I saw it.


File E211188 Vol. 1 Issued: ( )
A P P E N D I X
STANDARDIZED APPENDIX PAGES FOR:
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (NWGQ, NWGQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (QQGQ, QQGQ7),
TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT (WYQQ, WYQQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT (QQJE, QQJE7)
These appendix pages shall also be used for Components Recognized under the
categories noted below when one or more descriptive Sections of the
Follow-Up
Service Procedure require that the manufacturer conduct the factory
production-line tests described in Appendix D:
(NWGQ2/QQGQ2/WYQQ2/QQJE2)
(NWGQ8/QQGQ8/WYQQ8/QQJE8)

Ryan Jazz JayasingheCanoga Perkins (www.canoga.com
<http://www.canoga.com> )
Compliance Engineer 20600 Prairie Street
Direct: (818) 678-3898 or x1198 Chatsworth, CA  91311-6008
Main:(818) 718-6300
e-mail: r...@canoga.com <mailto:r...@canoga.com>
FAX:(818) 678-3798



From:   Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com]
Sent:   Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:52 PM
To: pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc:     emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:    Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other





Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment?  Some UL
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies
production-line tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-14 Thread boconn...@t-yuden.com 
Sir 

For some time, both UL and TUV have required my employer to test with a 25A to
40A current, depending on the branch circuit rating that the device can be
connected to (as specified in the Conditions of Acceptability). Also, CSA has
(at least for as long as I have been employed here) always required Ground
Continuity tests (both Production and Type tests) to be performed at at least
30A for 950, 1010, and 601 devices.

R/S, 
Brian 

-Original Message- 
From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:17 PM 
To: Rich Nute 
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
Subject: Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other 


Rich, 
I am trying to find the rationale why production-line ratyhing tests in North
America are usually done with a simple ohmmeter and without passing a current
of say 25 A through the circuit. There must be some rationale of doing it this
way somewhere.

Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-13 Thread Rich Nute 




Hi Peter:


> I am trying to find the rationale why production-line ratyhing tests
> in North America are usually done with a simple ohmmeter and without
> passing a current of say 25 A through the circuit.  There must be some
> rationale of doing it this way somewhere.

I can't answer that question.

But, I can provide you with data that says that
the production-line 25-amp test is no better than
a simple continuity test.

See:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/psn/

Then, view the following files:

97V10n1.pdf
97v10n2.pdf

In each document, turn to "Technically Speaking."

For more than you ever wanted to know about grounding,
including the 0.1 ohm value, see:

http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/tech-spk.htm 

Then click on: 

Equipotentiality and Grounding (PDF 118K) 


Best regards,
Rich





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RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-13 Thread peter merguerian 
Ryan, 


Thanks but my bottom line question to the group is which committe decides how
these tests are done. Again checking with an ohmeter for earthing test during
the production-line test as written in these appendix pages (and I have access
to tens of product categories) is not a good test. Do you agree that at least
some current should be injected to the circuit to yield "acceptable" or
"reject"? The question now is how many amperes for production-line tests. 


Peter 


  


 "Jayasinghe, Ryan"  wrote: 



Hello Rich,

Good question.

I tried tracking this down myself as I had to show my people where the Hi
Pot and Bonding tests were required.

You can't get from UL1950 to the production line tests. I know it's called
out on the Factory Audit Manuals... but where does the requirement come
from?

What I got a hold of was a UL procedure for their Follow up Services
personnel.

But I hope you can use this document to further track down the source of the
requirement.

Try doing a search in Google for "File E211188 Vol. 1"

This is where I saw it.


File E211188 Vol. 1 Issued: ( )
A P P E N D I X
STANDARDIZED APPENDIX PAGES FOR:
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (NWGQ, NWGQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (QQ! GQ, QQGQ7),
TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT (WYQQ, WYQQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT (QQJE, QQJE7)
These appendix pages shall also be used for Components Recognized under the
categories noted below when one or more descriptive Sections of the
Follow-Up
Service Procedure require that the manufacturer conduct the factory
production-line tests described in Appendix D:
(NWGQ2/QQGQ2/WYQQ2/QQJE2)
(NWGQ8/QQGQ8/WYQQ8/QQJE8)

Ryan Jazz Jayasinghe Canoga Perkins (www.canoga.com
)
Compliance Engineer 20600 Prairie Street
Direct: (818) 678-3898 or x1198 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008
Main:(818) 718-6300 
e-mail: r...@canoga.com 
FAX:(818) 678-3798



From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:52 PM
To: pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: North Amer! ican Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other




! 
Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment? Some UL
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies 
production-line tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the 
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services 
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified 
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

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For policy questions, send mail to:
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Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line.
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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RE: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-13 Thread Jayasinghe, Ryan 

Hello Rich,

Good question.

I tried tracking this down myself as I had to show my people where the Hi
Pot and Bonding tests were required.

You can't get from UL1950 to the production line tests. I know it's called
out on the Factory Audit Manuals... but where does the requirement come
from?

What I got a hold of was a UL procedure for their Follow up Services
personnel.

But I hope you can use this document to further track down the source of the
requirement.

Try doing a search in Google for "File E211188 Vol. 1"

This is where I saw it.


File E211188 Vol. 1 Issued: ( )
A P P E N D I X
STANDARDIZED APPENDIX PAGES FOR:
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (NWGQ, NWGQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
INCLUDING ELECTRICAL BUSINESS EQUIPMENT (QQGQ, QQGQ7),
TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT (WYQQ, WYQQ7),
POWER SUPPLIES FOR TELEPHONE APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT (QQJE, QQJE7)
These appendix pages shall also be used for Components Recognized under the
categories noted below when one or more descriptive Sections of the
Follow-Up
Service Procedure require that the manufacturer conduct the factory
production-line tests described in Appendix D:
(NWGQ2/QQGQ2/WYQQ2/QQJE2)
(NWGQ8/QQGQ8/WYQQ8/QQJE8)

Ryan Jazz JayasingheCanoga Perkins (www.canoga.com
<http://www.canoga.com> )
Compliance Engineer 20600 Prairie Street
Direct: (818) 678-3898 or x1198 Chatsworth, CA  91311-6008
Main:(818) 718-6300 
e-mail: r...@canoga.com <mailto:r...@canoga.com> 
FAX:(818) 678-3798



From:   Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com]
Sent:   Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:52 PM
To: pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:    Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other





Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment?  Some UL
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies 
production-line tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the 
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services 
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified 
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




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Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-13 Thread peter merguerian 
Rich, 


I am trying to find the rationale why production-line ratyhing tests in North
America are usually done with a simple ohmmeter and without passing a current
of say 25 A through the circuit. There must be some rationale of doing it this
way somewhere. 


  


Regards, 


Peter 


  


  


 Rich Nute  wrote: 






Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment? Some UL
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies 
production-line tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the 
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services 
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified 
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

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Re: North American Production-Line Tests; ANSI or Other

2003-02-13 Thread Rich Nute 




Hi Peter:


> Anyone knows of ANSI or other North American production-line test
> procedures/requirements for electrical/electronic equipment?  Some UL
> and CSA standards specify the procedures for roduction-line tests, but
> what I am looking for is the source of these procedures/requirements.

I don't believe any North American standard specifies 
production-line tests.

For UL, production-line tests are specified in the 
front of each Volume of the UL Follow-Up Services 
(FUS) procedure.

For CSA, I believe production-line tests are specified 
in the product report.


Best regards,
Rich




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