RE: TCF's
RE: TCF'sSome additional remarks : A TCF is to be prepared in either case. In the case where a competent body is involved, the TCF will be co -signed by the CB. A TCF just is the term for a compliance assessment document to a specific apparatus, or group of apparatuses. It describes in full details - what exactly you are producing - what measures you take to ensure EMC: - a) harmonized standards - b) others - test reports or justifications why not tested - a strategy to maintain compliance in future In case b) the co-sign is required. You will find that most bigger apparatus such as machines and automotives and all outside installations will not fit in the scope of a harmonized standard. The harmonized standards framework is mainly for the smaller equipment that can be carried in to a test lab. Other applications have been described in this thread before. My comment: The CB involvement is a lack of trust in the manufacturers and contrary of the deregulation measures in Europe. The EC thinks now that the manufacturer is truly capable of determining appropriate measures to be taken to ensure compliance, being testing at a CB, anywhere else or not tested at all, given the fact that he bears full responsibility by means of the DoC. The CB co-signing does not create any discharge of liability anyhow if somewhere later a compliance dispute is started. There is a reasonable chance that the function of Competent Body is to be suppressed, according to version 6 of the concept EMC-directive. There is great opposition ( from CB's of course), but as the CB concept is unique for the EMC-directive, it's not sure if there opposition will convince the EC. Regards, Gert Gremmen, (Ing) Ce-test, qualified testing == Web presence http://www.cetest.nl CE-shop http://www.cetest.nl/ce_shop.htm /-/ Compliance testing is our core business /-/ == -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Juhasz Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 3:05 PM To: 'William D'Orazio'; emcpost Subject: RE: TCF's William, That's a good question . . . but this is where the Competent Body (that is actually the correct authority - not Notified Body), comes in. If the 'variation' is developed after the TCF is made for the installation, they would be the ones to determine if any tests need to be performed, or a detailed addendum be added to the TCF. Choose your CB wisely. Trust is important. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: William D'Orazio [mailto:dora...@cae.ca] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 4:55 PM To: emcpost Subject: RE: TCF's John, What if the installation has variants, do the tests have to be repeated, or is it sufficient to compile a new TCF describing the changes. Thanks, William D'Orazio CAE Electronics Ltd. Electrical System Designer Phone: (514) 341-2000 (X4555) Fax: (514)340-5552 Email: dora...@cae.ca -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:04 PM To: 'Courtland Thomas'; emcpost Subject: RE: TCF's For the sake of brevity (?) I am going to try and keep it simple . . . For one example a TCF (Technical Contruction File) is useful for a company that has numerous products in a product 'family'/ For instance, there may be a dozen variations based on one design (i.e. printed circuit board partially populated with components for one product, fully populated for another, etc). This may make it difficult (or impossible) to test every single variation. In that case, a manufacturer would take the TCF route to compliance. One set of tests and then a file consisting of documentation describing/detailing all the variations along with engineering considerations for each. That 'package' is reviewed by a Notified Body who basically agrees that, based on the documentation presented, the one set of tests covers the whole product family. The NB affixes their 'stamp of approval'. Another example maybe a product (installation) that is too large to test. In that case certain sub-assemblies or groups of sub-assemblies (the Notified Body will determine) would be tested to all or only some of the tests, and a TCF describing the entire product (installation) would be generated. I was trying to keep this short, so I may have not described it completely (or totally acccurate), but this should give you the idea. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [ mailto:ctho...@patton.com <mailto:ctho...@patton.com> ] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: emcpost Subject: TCF's Hello group,
RE: TCF's
William, That's a good question . . . but this is where the Competent Body (that is actually the correct authority - not Notified Body), comes in. If the 'variation' is developed after the TCF is made for the installation, they would be the ones to determine if any tests need to be performed, or a detailed addendum be added to the TCF. Choose your CB wisely. Trust is important. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: William D'Orazio [mailto:dora...@cae.ca] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 4:55 PM To: emcpost Subject: RE: TCF's John, What if the installation has variants, do the tests have to be repeated, or is it sufficient to compile a new TCF describing the changes. Thanks, William D'Orazio CAE Electronics Ltd. Electrical System Designer Phone: (514) 341-2000 (X4555) Fax: (514)340-5552 Email: dora...@cae.ca -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:04 PM To: 'Courtland Thomas'; emcpost Subject: RE: TCF's For the sake of brevity (?) I am going to try and keep it simple . . . For one example a TCF (Technical Contruction File) is useful for a company that has numerous products in a product 'family'/ For instance, there may be a dozen variations based on one design (i.e. printed circuit board partially populated with components for one product, fully populated for another, etc). This may make it difficult (or impossible) to test every single variation. In that case, a manufacturer would take the TCF route to compliance. One set of tests and then a file consisting of documentation describing/detailing all the variations along with engineering considerations for each. That 'package' is reviewed by a Notified Body who basically agrees that, based on the documentation presented, the one set of tests covers the whole product family. The NB affixes their 'stamp of approval'. Another example maybe a product (installation) that is too large to test. In that case certain sub-assemblies or groups of sub-assemblies (the Notified Body will determine) would be tested to all or only some of the tests, and a TCF describing the entire product (installation) would be generated. I was trying to keep this short, so I may have not described it completely (or totally acccurate), but this should give you the idea. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [ mailto:ctho...@patton.com <mailto:ctho...@patton.com> ] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: emcpost Subject: TCF's Hello group, I would like to know the intent of TCF's for CE. There are numerous standards such as Radiated Emissions, Conducted Emissions, ESD, Radiated Immunity, Fast Transients, Surge, etc..., that apply. What actually is the intent of the TCF? Is it to allow the manufacturer to select only certain standards in lieu of testing to all the standards? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: TCF's
John, What if the installation has variants, do the tests have to be repeated, or is it sufficient to compile a new TCF describing the changes. Thanks, William D'Orazio CAE Electronics Ltd. Electrical System Designer Phone: (514) 341-2000 (X4555) Fax: (514)340-5552 Email: dora...@cae.ca -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:04 PM To: 'Courtland Thomas'; emcpost Subject: RE: TCF's For the sake of brevity (?) I am going to try and keep it simple . . . For one example a TCF (Technical Contruction File) is useful for a company that has numerous products in a product 'family'/ For instance, there may be a dozen variations based on one design (i.e. printed circuit board partially populated with components for one product, fully populated for another, etc). This may make it difficult (or impossible) to test every single variation. In that case, a manufacturer would take the TCF route to compliance. One set of tests and then a file consisting of documentation describing/detailing all the variations along with engineering considerations for each. That 'package' is reviewed by a Notified Body who basically agrees that, based on the documentation presented, the one set of tests covers the whole product family. The NB affixes their 'stamp of approval'. Another example maybe a product (installation) that is too large to test. In that case certain sub-assemblies or groups of sub-assemblies (the Notified Body will determine) would be tested to all or only some of the tests, and a TCF describing the entire product (installation) would be generated. I was trying to keep this short, so I may have not described it completely (or totally acccurate), but this should give you the idea. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [ mailto:ctho...@patton.com <mailto:ctho...@patton.com> ] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: emcpost Subject: TCF's Hello group, I would like to know the intent of TCF's for CE. There are numerous standards such as Radiated Emissions, Conducted Emissions, ESD, Radiated Immunity, Fast Transients, Surge, etc..., that apply. What actually is the intent of the TCF? Is it to allow the manufacturer to select only certain standards in lieu of testing to all the standards? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: TCF's
Courtland, The TCF (Technical Construction File) is a route that is unique to the EMC Directive. This route, as opposed to the Standards Route, is preferred when there are no specific standards that apply to a product line or when there are many variants of a product, proving it too costly to test each variant. I recommend reading Chapter 8 of the Guidelines to the EMC Directive found on the Web at : http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/guides/ Joseph C. Fries AM Communications Phone: 215-538-8748 Fax: 215-538-8779 fr...@amcomm.com -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [mailto:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: emcpost Subject: TCF's Hello group, I would like to know the intent of TCF's for CE. There are numerous standards such as Radiated Emissions, Conducted Emissions, ESD, Radiated Immunity, Fast Transients, Surge, etc..., that apply. What actually is the intent of the TCF? Is it to allow the manufacturer to select only certain standards in lieu of testing to all the standards? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: TCF's
Cortland, the Directives require that products be compliant with the essential requirements. Compliance with voluntary harmonized standards provides for the presumption of compliance, but application of the standards is not mandatory. Optionally, one may apply any solution to demonstrate compliance then construct a TCF that documents the product construction and the solutions applied to ensure compliance. The file is submitted to a Notified Body for an opinion of compliance with the essential requirements. This TCF method does not provide for an automatic presumption of compliance, so the file must be available for inspection by the national authorities. The TCF method is used by some companies where the product, such as a computer, has many options that would be difficult and time consuming to test all combinations. Richard Woods -- From: Courtland Thomas [SMTP:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: emcpost Subject: TCF's Hello group, I would like to know the intent of TCF's for CE. There are numerous standards such as Radiated Emissions, Conducted Emissions, ESD, Radiated Immunity, Fast Transients, Surge, etc..., that apply. What actually is the intent of the TCF? Is it to allow the manufacturer to select only certain standards in lieu of testing to all the standards? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: TCF's
For the sake of brevity (?) I am going to try and keep it simple . . . For one example a TCF (Technical Contruction File) is useful for a company that has numerous products in a product 'family'/ For instance, there may be a dozen variations based on one design (i.e. printed circuit board partially populated with components for one product, fully populated for another, etc). This may make it difficult (or impossible) to test every single variation. In that case, a manufacturer would take the TCF route to compliance. One set of tests and then a file consisting of documentation describing/detailing all the variations along with engineering considerations for each. That 'package' is reviewed by a Notified Body who basically agrees that, based on the documentation presented, the one set of tests covers the whole product family. The NB affixes their 'stamp of approval'. Another example maybe a product (installation) that is too large to test. In that case certain sub-assemblies or groups of sub-assemblies (the Notified Body will determine) would be tested to all or only some of the tests, and a TCF describing the entire product (installation) would be generated. I was trying to keep this short, so I may have not described it completely (or totally acccurate), but this should give you the idea. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [mailto:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: emcpost Subject: TCF's Hello group, I would like to know the intent of TCF's for CE. There are numerous standards such as Radiated Emissions, Conducted Emissions, ESD, Radiated Immunity, Fast Transients, Surge, etc..., that apply. What actually is the intent of the TCF? Is it to allow the manufacturer to select only certain standards in lieu of testing to all the standards? Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
