Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/5/19 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:

 On the IRC Chris Radek suggested there was no advantage to using Gantrykins 
 and that it may have some problems and so I changed things to Trivkins.

Did he explain and give some arguments? Gantrykins worked just fine
for me and other users are using it as well.
Gantrykins just links 2 joints to 1 axis, it does not interfere with
joint settings. If You had difficulties with motor acceleration and
movement, I would suspect that there was something wrong with settings
or maybe with the loop in the Geckos. But I have never used servos, so
that is just a guess.

Yes, You are totally right - if You want each motor to move
independently, You have to treat them as separate joints.

My suggestion would be - set up gantrykins without THC to work
properly and then add THC capability.
If there realy is some kind of problem, You can easily customize
trivkins module to have 2 joints hardcoded to Y axis. Gantrykins
allows flexibility to cover all kinds of situations, but You can
adjust a module for Your particular machine. That is what I ended
with, because I needed a module for 5 axis gantry machine.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

2011-05-19 Thread Jan de Kruyf
Chris,
was this a genuine posting or your personal spambot??

jan.


On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Chris Reynolds c_reynolds2...@yahoo.comwrote:

 It’s awesome!!! In no time you’ll rid of your problems!!!..
 http://news-trial.com/friends_links.php?coPage=14pj1


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Re: [Emc-users] 5-axis kinematics XYZAC

2011-05-19 Thread Rudy du Preez
Not finding any other way to upload the XYZACkins that I recently developed,
I added a small description to the Wiki under HAL user contributed
components: Kinematics. A link to a tar.gz file is given which contains the
kinematics code as well as the ini and hal files, a vismach simulation model
and a demo ngc file.

Comments will be appreciated once you have tried it out. The remaining
problem I have is the homing and setup to start a job. I am still working on
a solution.

Rudy


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Re: [Emc-users] 5-axis kinematics XYZAC

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/5/19 Rudy du Preez r...@asmsa.co.za:

 Comments will be appreciated once you have tried it out. The remaining
 problem I have is the homing and setup to start a job. I am still working on
 a solution.


What is wrong with homing?

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Tom Easterday
On May 19, 2011, at 3:19 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2011/5/19 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:
 
 On the IRC Chris Radek suggested there was no advantage to using Gantrykins 
 and that it may have some problems and so I changed things to Trivkins.
 
 Did he explain and give some arguments?

No, but he was busy and had to go just after telling me this...

 Gantrykins worked just fine
 for me and other users are using it as well.
 Gantrykins just links 2 joints to 1 axis, it does not interfere with
 joint settings. If You had difficulties with motor acceleration and
 movement, I would suspect that there was something wrong with settings
 or maybe with the loop in the Geckos. But I have never used servos, so
 that is just a guess.
 
 Yes, You are totally right - if You want each motor to move
 independently, You have to treat them as separate joints.
 
 My suggestion would be - set up gantrykins without THC to work
 properly and then add THC capability.
 If there realy is some kind of problem, You can easily customize
 trivkins module to have 2 joints hardcoded to Y axis. Gantrykins
 allows flexibility to cover all kinds of situations, but You can
 adjust a module for Your particular machine. That is what I ended
 with, because I needed a module for 5 axis gantry machine.


Ok, I redid the config using gantrykins and the parameters I used to get it 
working in trivkins and now it seems to work.  

The only problem now is that I see three joints 1,2,3 and when I try to switch 
to world mode it says I have to home all joints.  I did home all (3) joints, 
how do I home the 4th - or am I missing something more basic?

-Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] Joints_axes branch

2011-05-19 Thread Dave

See my responses embedded below:

On 5/17/2011 11:09 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2011/5/17 Davee...@dc9.tzo.com:

 If you can create the stepgen and a few other components you can go
 beyond the interpreter limit.
  
 Thanks for the sample! It really seems doable. But I do have few
 questions / comments. I hope that You can help me clarifying them.



 This is not really an X axis although I used the X axis values out of
 the INI file (Axis_0 - not necessary).This axis is not connected to
 the interpreter.  It is driven by CL.

 Everything accels and decels like it should.   Very simple once you try it.

 I'm sure this could be cleaned up but I just snipped it out of a
 existing hal file.

 The is actually running on a machine so I know it works.

 Dave  :-)

 # 
 # X [0] Axis
 # 


 Drive 1 - X axis

 #Divide CL floatout by 100 to get proper scaling - actually multiply by .01
 setp mult2.0.in0 0.01
 net mult201 mult2.0.in1= classicladder.0.floatout-00
  
 What data is feeded to classicladder.0.floatout-00? Commanded position of 
 motor?
 Then I am curious, how is that commanded position calculated in classicladder?
 There will be some starting position and on some input trigger the
 movement should start. How does classicladder it? Calculates commanded
 position each servo cycle?
 Could You, please, expand on this topic a little more?


It is even easier than that. Classic Ladder (CL) only need to send out 
the end position of the move and the limit3 will accelerate the axis and 
decel the axis to the new end position. If you want it to go to another 
position, simply
change the end position value.


 #Tie classic ladder drive control out (/100) to Limit3 input
 net limit3_0in   limit3.0.in= mult2.0.out

 #setp limit3.0.maxv 5   # to be set via Modbus
 net limit30maxv classicladder.0.floatout-01 =  limit3.0.maxv

 #setp limit3.0.maxa 25  # to be set via Modbus
 net limit30maxa classicladder.0.floatout-02 =  limit3.0.maxa
  
 Is this something specific for that particular machine that I should skip?


The Modbus notes were just notes for me as I put the controls together. 
The velocity and accel was set via a Modbus connection to a PLC which 
had a screen attached.
The PC runs EMC2 as a headless slave to a PLC. There is no operator 
interaction directly with the EMC2 PC.


 net emcmot.00.pos-cmd= limit3.0.out

 net emcmot.00.pos-cmd =  hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.position-cmd
  
 Is emcmot.00.pos-cmd a signal name or a pin? I googled this phrase and
 got several links to HAL files for some Mesa card configs. My sense
 tells me that this should be just a signal name, but I am confused.


I think that is just a signal name. I tend to adapt existing configs to 
what I need rather than renaming everything.
the point of those two lines is that the limit3 #0 output is connected 
to the input of the stepgen.00 position command.

The limit3 takes in a position and accels, limits the velocity, and 
decels so that the output arrives at the input command position via the 
set parameters (accel, max vel).


 net motor.00.pos-fb= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.position-fb

 net motor.00.pos-fb =  axis.0.motor-pos-fb  =mult2.1.in0
  
 Why do You feed motor position feedback to axis.0.motor-pos-fb, if You
 do not use axis.0.motor-pos-cmd? Doesn't that cause following error,
 because pos-cmd and pos-fb would differ a lot? Or am I missing
 something here?


I believe that I did that so I could see the actual position on the 
Axis screenset screen when I was debugging the machine. Following 
errors are not an issue.



 setp mult2.1.in1 100
 net motor0pos mult2.1.out =  classicladder.0.floatin-02
  
 Ok, You get motor position feedback back into classicladder. What
 happens then? I mean - does it somehow compare cmd and fb values? Can
 You, please, explain more, what happens with this data?


I believe I did that so I could get the axis position data back into CL 
so I could tell when the position was reached . I believe that the 
actual position for a couple of these
axes are also fedback to an actual PLC for display and monitoring purposes.

It works very well. Try mocking something up and if you get stuck I'll 
try and help you out.

I think you working on some custom graphical interfaces for EMC2 a while 
back... where did that all end up? I think there were some additions 
made to the EMC2 dev version?? And perhaps the Wiki?
but I don't remember what they were... I was busy doing some other 
non-EMC2 related work at the time and lost track of things.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] Joints_axes branch

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/5/19 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com:

 See my responses embedded below:

 It works very well. Try mocking something up and if you get stuck I'll
 try and help you out.

Wow, thanks a lot!!!
Honestly, I am pretty far from actually building something. because
that machine is pretty complicated and although it seems that control
side can be handled, the big issue is to get the data in the EMC.
I have not solved that with my client. Saying that they are reluctant
to use cnc control software, which is considered to be a hobby level
solution, is saying just a little. But I hope that robot will make
them reconsider.

 I think you working on some custom graphical interfaces for EMC2 a while
 back... where did that all end up?

What I tried to dowas: move pyvcp buttons from the right side of the
screen to the left side. I did that and managed to tie them with
Manual control tab, so that they are not visible in MDI tab. It was
successful!!!

 I think there were some additions
 made to the EMC2 dev version?? And perhaps the Wiki?

Sorry, I did not add anything about it to documentation of any kind,
because I did not feel any kind of interest at all from other users.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/5/19 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:
  I did home all (3) joints, how do I home the 4th - or am I missing something 
 more basic?

Just the same way as You home all the remaining joints. I do not
understand, where is the problem.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Tom Easterday

On May 19, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

 2011/5/19 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:
  I did home all (3) joints, how do I home the 4th - or am I missing 
 something more basic?
 
 Just the same way as You home all the remaining joints. I do not
 understand, where is the problem.

In Axis I only see joints 1,2,3 (but not 4) as a radio button.  I select 1 
and click Home.  I select 2 and click Home, etc.  How do I select joint 4, it 
is not there?
-Tom



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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/5/19 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:

 In Axis I only see joints 1,2,3 (but not 4) as a radio button.  I select 1 
 and click Home.  I select 2 and click Home, etc.
 How do I select joint 4, it is not there?

And what about joint 0?
How many joints You have specified in INI file? In [TRAJ] section AXES
has to be set to 4, because You have 4 joints and COORDINATES has to
contain 4 letters, for example X Y Z A

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Joints_axes branch

2011-05-19 Thread Dave
Saying that they are reluctant to use cnc control software, which is 
considered to be a hobby level
solution, is saying just a little.

I replaced an Allen Bradley Series 9 CNC control with EMC2 on a commercial 
waterjet machine made by Jet Edge last year.   The customer thought that they 
blew the USB ports on the PC so I visited them yesterday since the machine 
upgrade is still under warranty.   (The computer was fine, some USB connectors 
external to the cabinet had become corroded - the environment is corrosive)  
The engineering manager told me that the Jet Edge machine retrofit was the 
feature of his yearly equipment report to the company board.  He said the 
machine performs much better than it did when it was new.   The machine runs 
1-2 shifts per day, 5-7 days per week depending on demand.  It is automatically 
fed with a conveyor system.  The four waterjet nozzles actually cut over a 
chain conveyor so the cut pieces can be automatically conveyed out of the 
machine.

The system is very reliable.

Properly applied, EMC2 is extremely reliable and capable.

Dave


On 5/19/2011 11:23 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2011/5/19 Davee...@dc9.tzo.com:

 See my responses embedded below:

 It works very well. Try mocking something up and if you get stuck I'll
 try and help you out.
  
 Wow, thanks a lot!!!
 Honestly, I am pretty far from actually building something. because
 that machine is pretty complicated and although it seems that control
 side can be handled, the big issue is to get the data in the EMC.
 I have not solved that with my client. Saying that they are reluctant
 to use cnc control software, which is considered to be a hobby level
 solution, is saying just a little. But I hope that robot will make
 them reconsider.


 I think you working on some custom graphical interfaces for EMC2 a while
 back... where did that all end up?
  
 What I tried to dowas: move pyvcp buttons from the right side of the
 screen to the left side. I did that and managed to tie them with
 Manual control tab, so that they are not visible in MDI tab. It was
 successful!!!


 I think there were some additions
 made to the EMC2 dev version?? And perhaps the Wiki?
  
 Sorry, I did not add anything about it to documentation of any kind,
 because I did not feel any kind of interest at all from other users.

 Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Tom Easterday

On May 19, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

 2011/5/19 Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu:
 
 In Axis I only see joints 1,2,3 (but not 4) as a radio button.  I select 1 
 and click Home.  I select 2 and click Home, etc.
 How do I select joint 4, it is not there?
 
 And what about joint 0?
 How many joints You have specified in INI file? In [TRAJ] section AXES
 has to be set to 4, because You have 4 joints and COORDINATES has to
 contain 4 letters, for example X Y Z A
 

Here are my hal and ini file:





a2msg.hal
Description: Binary data




a2msg.ini
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
Try changing the second Y to A, it does not like the same letter twice.
COORDINATES = X Y Z A

You will have x, y, z and a axes in Axis gui, but do not worry - if
You have done kinematics.hal file correctly, then A commands in g-code
will do nothing.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Joints_axes branch

2011-05-19 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/5/19 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com:

 The system is very reliable.

 Properly applied, EMC2 is extremely reliable and capable.

That is what I believe in and what I have seen so far on my machine.
But I have yet to prove it to convince others. Especially, if I am
facing resistance from their current supplier of controls, from whom I
expect a lot of things just to show that my solution is not good
enough.

Actually it already has started by arguing that PC-based solution is
not reliable enough, because the hardware is not as reliable as some
PLCs. Since I do not have experience with PLC, unfortunately I can't
argue with that.

Anyway, I think that best argument will a working machine :))

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Belli Button
I think that V would offer a better choice, often when creating G-code for a 
rotary device, your CAM package will default to A for the rotary axis.

Greg


- Original Message - 
From: Viesturs Lacis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] YAGC


 Try changing the second Y to A, it does not like the same letter twice.
 COORDINATES = X Y Z A

 You will have x, y, z and a axes in Axis gui, but do not worry - if
 You have done kinematics.hal file correctly, then A commands in g-code
 will do nothing.

 Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Joints_axes branch

2011-05-19 Thread Dave
I work with PLCs daily. They are a different animal entirely. Most of 
the EMC2 implementations I have done on custom machines have included a 
PLC simply because they have been I/O intensive machines.
There is no reason why you cannot use them together.

The PLC vs PC reliability argument still pops up once in a while in the 
US, but not nearly as much as it did 10 years ago. Now the the PLC is 
better argument usually dies quickly when it is determined that PCs are 
required as operator
consoles and data servers in conjunction with the PLC system. Since PCs 
are already required - adding another one for motion control is 
oftentimes no longer an issue. Another thing; if the PC does not look 
like a desktop unit, it will not be perceived in the same way.
Find a PC case that is industrial looking and use good quality PC 
hardware and they will forget that it is a PC. It is really all about 
perception.

Dave


On 5/19/2011 3:44 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2011/5/19 Davee...@dc9.tzo.com:

 The system is very reliable.

 Properly applied, EMC2 is extremely reliable and capable.
  
 That is what I believe in and what I have seen so far on my machine.
 But I have yet to prove it to convince others. Especially, if I am
 facing resistance from their current supplier of controls, from whom I
 expect a lot of things just to show that my solution is not good
 enough.

 Actually it already has started by arguing that PC-based solution is
 not reliable enough, because the hardware is not as reliable as some
 PLCs. Since I do not have experience with PLC, unfortunately I can't
 argue with that.

 Anyway, I think that best argument will a working machine :))

 Viesturs

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[Emc-users] Required POSIX exensions?

2011-05-19 Thread Michael Dexter

Hello all,

I have been searching the documentation and HAL User Manual but have not
found a simple overview of what POSIX/realtime API's are required if
porting EMC2 to another RT kernel. Could someone please summarize the
the requirements?

Thanks,

Michael

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Re: [Emc-users] YAGC

2011-05-19 Thread Tom Easterday
On May 19, 2011, at 2:21 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Try changing the second Y to A, it does not like the same letter twice.
 COORDINATES = X Y Z A
 
 You will have x, y, z and a axes in Axis gui, but do not worry - if
 You have done kinematics.hal file correctly, then A commands in g-code
 will do nothing.

Thanks I will give it a try.
-Tom



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Re: [Emc-users] Joints_axes branch

2011-05-19 Thread Jon Elson
Dave wrote:

 The system is very reliable.

 Properly applied, EMC2 is extremely reliable and capable.

   
Yup, I have a number of CNC control interfaces in commercial shops all 
over the world,
and they are well-liked by their users (nearly all EMC2-based).

Jon

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next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran 
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Re: [Emc-users] Required POSIX exensions?

2011-05-19 Thread Jeff Epler
RTAPI is the name of the real-time portability APIs in emc.

Currently, we provide two implementations of RTAPI that are known to
work: RTAI's kernel-moade interface (the one everyone uses when actually
controlling hardware) and sim (based on gnu pth for threading
primitives, no realtime guarantees, not suitable for controlling
hardware--great for developing GUIs and debugging non-driver realtime
code).

There is no working RTAPI implementation in terms of POSIX threading
primitives in the linuxcnc source tree, though there are at least two
earlier efforts that each achieved some level of functionality.  See
e.g.,
http://mid.gmane.org/02c101c9908d$4657afb0$6400a8c0@danalappy
http://axis.unpythonic.net/01190912545
http://mid.gmane.org/200910110020.00011...@bu3sch.de
http://bu3sch.de/patches/misc/emc-on-linux-rt.patch

RTAPI is a fairly small set of APIs (about 50 or so, with maybe 40
actually required to run emc).  Most are documented in the unix
manpage system, section 3rtapi, but a few may only be  in the header
rtapi.h.

In addition to implementing the APIs, you'd have housekeeping things
to do like the build system, the packaging system, and the realtime
start/stop script.

Finally (but the biggest item if you want to control hardware!), since
the only hardware-controlling RTAPI implementation runs in the kernel,
hardware drivers freely use Linux kernel APIs for e.g., PCI device
detection and I/O port allocation during setup, and inb/outb for I/O in
realtime code.  For whatever hardware drivers you wanted, you'd have to
invent new RTAPI APIs that provide the same functionality, and then
change them from calling kernel APIs to RTAPI APIs.  (I imagine that
these RTAPI APIs would be thin wrappers for the underlying kernel codes
in the RTAI RTAPI implementation, so that part wouldn't be trouble)

Jeff

--
What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know!
Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its 
next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran 
developers boost performance applications - including clusters. 
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